High Density CD-Audio Solutions? 57
Deagol writes "Like many of you, I've got a fairly good-sized music CD collection. I'm having a problem with managing the sheer number of CD's (about 350, which I know isn't a lot by some standards). My current setup consists of a Pioneer 6-CD changer CD player and 50 of the cartridges, each numbered, and a tome affectionately known as the "List O' Music" which is a 3-ring binder listing the contents of these 50 cartridges. Not horribly efficient, but the best I could manage when I started. I've recently began cloning my CDs, and using my burned copies for every-day use and keeping the rest in storage -- this came about after having to use paranoia to recover some child-scratched CDs. Along the way, I decided that the 6-CD cartridge thing isn't satisfactory anymore. I've thought about those 200-CD changers and maybe having a couple, and I've also thought about the MP3-type stereo components, though sound quality matters (I use flac for my CD archiving). For those of you with 100's to 1000's of CDs, how do you store and index them, either on the shelf or in the player?" Most of the questions like this involve managing large quantities of mp3's rather than disks.
Re:I have 3 CaseLogic binders (Score:1)
I've since gotten a beautiful shelf that is 5 feet high and 3 feet wide that holds almost 700 CDs. I've alphabetized, but that is crumbling slightly now that I notice a pile of 20-30 on the floor next to my stereo.
As for playing, I've got a 5 disc changer and that does me fine. I've thought about getting a large carosel, but for some reason it doesn't feel necessary. I like picking through my shelf wondering what I want to play - in a carousel I think a lot of albums would go forgotten.
If anyone out there has REALLY large collections, you might be interested in these cabinets [can-am.ca] - a little industrial-looking for your home, but functional.
my $0.02 (Canadian)
Managing CDs (Score:3, Insightful)
I would suggest getting rid of any jukebox style approach: they require you to commit your storage of your precious media to them, and can be somewhat rough in handling. Instead, consider ripping them (uncompressed, if you're a purist, to a hard disk). 100 Gb drives are reasonably priced, and will store about 120 CDs, uncompressed. I'm told that the lossless compression shorten (.shn) format is half decent, compression-wise, and will give you a bit more space.
As for indexing, I tend to use an Artist/Album/track scheme, with permutations of symlink trees thus: Artists/Artist/Album/track, Albums/Album/Artist/track, Genre/Artist/Album/track, etc.
Re:Managing CDs (Score:2)
Winamp plugin [etree.org]
XMMS plugin [freeshell.org]
other windows shorten software [softsound.com]
SHN FAQ [umbc.edu]
Re:Managing CDs (Score:2)
EAC (Exact Audio Copy) make a great combination for lossless compression. I've tried many other programs and finally have settled on these two. Once you've installed both, you'll never run Monkey's Audio. The codec will be accessible from EAC. Oh yeah, and it comes with a WinAmp decoder plugin too.
My management solution.... (Score:4, Informative)
Number one: CD changer, enough to hold ALL of my CD's. Sony's 400-disc changer would be enough to hold your current collection with some room for growth.
Number two: Turtle Beach's Audiotron MP3 player. No onboard storage, it pulls directly from your SMB-enabled shares. Very cool piece of tech.
These are linked together with a MySQL database. This database holds the information on all 130 of my CCD's, and all 1200 of my MP3's. A simple web interface allows me to search by title, artist, etc. Thanks to the Audiotron's API, a hit on an MP3 in my database can be immediately played via the AT. With this, I can search for a song, find it on CD or MP3, and get a list of exactly where in my carousel or where on my server I can find it.
If you're really interested, I can let you have the scripts. They're pretty basic.
Re:My management solution.... (Score:2)
Sony's system also daisychains so when you have two hooked up, the numbers just go to 800. That's my currect CD setup (well, I'm currently packed to move, but that's what I normally use). However, they are a pain to use, plus I've got hundreds of CDs outside the changers. I'm looking at getting a RAID of a few large capacity drives, and making high quality MP3s of every disc. That will allow me much more flexibility. I've already experimented with directories and how to handle autogeneration of thematic playlists, and I think I've got some good solutions - i.e., I decided *not* to use discs at all. 256k is pretty close to CD, anyway, and if I really want to, I'll have all my CDs in binders, alphabatized (I've long since gotten rid of the jewel cases, and gone to binders with the CD and cover).
--
Evan
Store them on shelves, not in a changer (Score:4, Informative)
For actual storage, I use shelves. Boltz [boltz.com] makes some truly great cd racks [boltz.com] that hold about 600 jewel cases. Run out of room? You can expand it to 1200, though it takes up a fair amount of wall space in this configuration.
I have several pieces of furniture by these guys, and they're great. Sturdy, attractive, and their customer relations policies can't be beat - They've actually changed their product line because of someone I know's feedback. Their prices INCLUDE shipping and tax. And so on. They're not dirt cheap or anything, but they're worth more than what they cost. I don't work for them or anything, but they get the highest recommendation I have.
If you really are strapped for space, you could use those caselogic books, but they're a big pain if you want to keep your music sorted (with shelves with a little extra room, insertion is basically O(1) rather than O(n) ).
Six hundred cases for $269? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Store them on shelves, not in a changer (Score:2)
With CD buners and larger changers, though, the choice is starting to come back. I know that a lot of my CD's will never be played in my car or in my bedroom. Ones that I will listen to in multiple places you can either burn or rip to an MP3 player.
That said, I am still using single CD players in multiple places. I would like to get a 5 disk changer for my main listening environment (currently making due with a DVD player), but having single players is definitely still the way to go.
Now VHS and DVD's are a complete other story. I have about 125 VHS tapes, about 30 DVD's (and climbing weekly), and about 20 Laserdisk. All of those are a pain to store for easy retreival since they take up so much room.
Re:Store them on shelves, not in a changer (Score:1)
3 ring binders (Score:2)
Re:3 ring binders (Score:2)
Still, though, even these aren't really all that cheap. Ballpark $500 for 2000 decent-quality blank CDs and $100 for binders, and that's $900 for 1.4 TB of storage. Not bad, but with 120gig hard drives going for $160 and all the "just-around-the-corner" massive mass storage devices they keep promising, I hope something better comes along soon. A 3-ft shelf of CD binders just reminds me of a wall of cassette tapes... soon to be obsolete and, if you move a lot, just one more PITA.
Where's my $50 terabyte storage card, dammit?!?
Re:3 ring binders (Score:2)
Another thing to check out is whether you can get them in 25-packs from a retail outlet. It'll be a little pricier, but they were $15 @ BestBuy here in Austin, TX, and $15 every couple of weeks as you gradually migrate is a LOT easier to swallow than $300 all at once.
¼ terabit music jukebox (Score:3, Interesting)
Use compression anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
3jane:/mp3 116358328 64690856 42358808 60%
The first one is RAID 5, the second is crappy vinum-based RAID 0. The important stuff is all compressed losslessly with Shorten (SHN). The other stuff is MP3, encoded at 256+ Kbit/second. Everything gets played on another machine (Ultra 30) connected to my DJ system and a high-quality headphone amp (with either a pair of Senn 580s or a pair of ER-4Ss [etymotic.com].
The only suggestion I have is to buy a real IDE RAID card [3ware.com] and don't toss all your data on a single, non-mirrored disk. Also, make backups every once in a while.
- A.P.
Re:¼ terabit music jukebox (Score:2)
$700 for a spif in/out, 40x burner, quarter terabit jukebox.
That might rip, mix, burn and serve a little faster than a old system, expandable to 1.1 terabits for $1100 more. One terabit for less than $2000... sweet
Gosh darn it... (Score:1)
I've heard this question from *loads* of folks... and my answer is always the same. Just get a DVD player with MP3 play capability! You can get great units for both in-dash car operation and/or home audio use
Here's some links:
Samsung Player [futurelooks.com]
Apex Player ($70!!!) [circuitcity.com]
Have a good day!
Re:Gosh darn it... (Score:2)
Re:Gosh darn it... (Score:1)
Very good point... the unit would have to support DVD-R in order to be truly useful. Pioneer appears to have a nice unit that does CD-R/CD-RW, DVD-R/DVD-RW here: Pioneer DVR-A03 [pioneerelectronics.com].
Checking around a bit, it would appear that this model retails for around $399 USD. Not a bad price to pay, really.
Now, I'd probably go for that plus the $70 drive (playback/retrieval only) for a complete solution. Tack on a MySQL database and a couple of perl scripts (maybe even over a local web server) to control the playback operations, and you're set!
Get an AudioTron (Score:1)
You can then listen to all of your music, make playlists, play by artist, genre, album. The 200 disk changers don't give you easy access to your music by anything other than album.
If sound quality is important you can do really high bitrate mp3s or even wav files. It has optical output so the nice dac in your reciever can do the converion not some crappy soundcard.
Plus the best customer service I have ever seen with any product.
Don't work for em, just own one and like it!!
Re:Get an AudioTron (Score:1)
If it only had syncro playback it would be perfect.
Re:Get an AudioTron (Score:2)
Re:Get an AudioTron (Score:2, Interesting)
All my music has the id3 tags set thanks to freecddb. That lets me access and play my music in a way that no CD changer can. Plus I have one in my family room and one in the basement, which gives me access to my music simultaniously in both places( something a CD changer can not do ).
Third I don't actully use my CDs. They are in a box packed up so that they don't get wrecked by the kids.
The final benifit is that in their last firmware release they added a network API to control it. I wrapped it with a Java wrapper and can now make the AudioTron do things that the designers had not even anticipated.
I hate keep going on and on about it, but a cd changer can't touch it.
Re:Get an AudioTron (Score:2)
Re:I use an amazing sorting and indexing technolog (Score:1, Funny)
350 CD's? (Score:3, Informative)
-Andrew
Re:350 CD's? (Score:1)
Changers (Score:3, Informative)
As for the organization, I recently invested in some oustanding free-standing shelves, initially getting 2 and then quickly realizing I'm going to need a 3rd very fast. They were only about $25 online, and I'm very happy with them, though my memory fails me at the moment. When I get home, and if I remember, I'll try to post the brand or even a link to these shelves. Regardless, after a few hours of alphabetizing, I was able to get rid of all my old plastic single-insert storage, and now have shelves that allow for easy insertion of new titles. I'm very happy with my current arrangement, and would choose it over any cd-changer-loading, cross-linking, or database-catalog solution.
Re:Changers (Score:2)
A few suggestions (Score:1)
As far as the actual jewel cases/booklets themselves there are many ways you can go, depending on your lifestyle and the size of your wallet. For a few years I was quite content to store my CD's in a combination of shoeboxes and the cheap CD racks you can find for $10 at the CD store. Which works fine up to a point, although it makes organization difficult and it isn't exactly attractive. So, unless you're living in a dorm or your parents' basement you're probably looking for something a little nicer. I recently made the purchase of one of these [stacksandstacks.com], which also comes in smaller sizes as well, although I found the large version nice as I can also store my cassette's and DVD's in it as well. In addition it's very attractive and doesn't look out of place in my den.
I store my CD's in alphabetical order by artist, then by album name. It takes some patience initially to get everything in order but it's a lifesaver once you're finished. I also find that using a program such as Music Collector [collectorz.com] helps keep things organized.
Finally, as far as playing the CD's goes, I like the big jukeboxes such as Sony's CDP-CX450 which holds 400 CD's and can be daisychained with another for a total capacity of 800 CD's. As with anything there are advantages and disadvantages to the jukebox system, but it works well for me. YMMV.
My solution (Score:1)
For flexible listening solution - rip with EAC [exactaudiocopy.de] and encode with LAME [sourceforge.net] at 192 or 256 vbr. Unless you spent over, say, 20 grand on your stereo, you simply will be unable to hear the difference. Store them on a modest 30-40 GB hard drive and access them via Netjuke [sourceforge.net], sending digital outputs of your sound card to your receiver.
just rip them to a pc (Score:2, Insightful)
As for playback, get either a very high quality playback card (midiman, hoontech), or use digital output to a reciever with digital input. Use a video card with tv out and a wireless keyboard with built in pointing device to control it. I believe there's software out there for automagickly grabbing the cd/song titles from cddb or freedb and providing indexing capability for easy playback.
It's perhaps not the cheapest solution, and doesn't have quite the appeal of a consumerized all in one device. But then again, someone with 350 cd's obviously has some disposable income and is pretty agressive about enjoying music on their terms.
simple is best... (Score:1)
Best Buy Has one (Score:1)
$140
WinAmp
Free
Not having to dig through CD's again?
Priceless
The really old fashioned way... (Score:1)
For playback I use RioCar/Empeg players (they were recently blown out for $199/10G units) and provide excellent sound. Ebay is where you'll find them now... or The Empeg BBS [comms.net]
CD's in big 5 inch binders (Score:1)
Since I have players in the cars, various rooms, and at work a big changer is not a real option.
I keep all of the inserts in a few floppy disk holders, so I can reference them whenever I want.
Now I am starting ripping all of them, and am hunting for good indexing software that will let me manage them by the CD, track, playlist, and mp3 archive cd for things like artist, composer (for classical), song title, classification (allowing for multiple), etc.
Anyone seen anything that does that reasonably well. I am thinking a mySQL database, but ideas on schemas and naming criteria are the fun part
Re:CD's in big 5 inch binders (Score:1)
Re:CD's in big 5 inch binders (Score:1)
Music Collector runs on Windows 95, 98, NT4, ME, XP and 2000.
Oh well
sell out (Score:1)
Jewel case storage solution (Score:1)
Once all my CDs were stored centrally, I really just wanted to put the cases out of the way, but keep them easily accessible. I found the wonderful storage boxes at Bags Unlimited [bagsunlimited.com]. I purchased a couple of the plastic 100-CD boxes and alphabetized my CDs into them. Now they're nice and organized. I never have trouble finding the liner I want in a minute or two, and they don't take up much space.
I went with a hybrid solution (Score:1)
Re:I went with a hybrid solution (Score:1)
I'll probably use FLAC in the end and I figure I should be able to store ~16+ CDs on one 4.7 G DVD(-R/+R/+RW). I'll still have to deal with 40+ discs, but that'a a far cry from 650!
I can always generate MP3/OGG/WMA/(format du jour) files from the FLAC files later...
Balam
Re:I went with a hybrid solution (Score:1)
love the freudian slips....
Re:I went with a hybrid solution (Score:1)
On the original topic, and for the record. I received my sample DiscSox and JewelSleeves. Here's a quick comaprison. They are very similar in size and overall appearance, but have enough minor differences that may matter to some...
DiscSox Pros: The plastic over the front/back jewel case inserts is a bit clearer. The opening are along the longer ends of the sleeves with partial cutouts on one corner for easy removal of the CD and booklet.
Jewelsleeve Pros: For single CD storage, both sides of the CD are in contact only with soft Tyvek like material (cf. only one side for the DiscSox).
So, I would tend to think that for archiving discs that have been ripped the JewelSleeves might be better. However, for a collection that is regularly used, the DiscSox might cause less aggravation.
Balam
Definitely an Audiotron! (Score:1)
Several key points:
1) I can find, access and play any song in my collection in less than 10 seconds, from my couch, with a remote;
2) I can easily (3 button presses) create a playlist by genre, artist, album, or any combination of the above;
3) Since the storage is external to the Audiotron, I can easily, and cheaply, expand my storage capacity;
4) Turtlebeach has one of the *best* support mailinglists, and consistantly responds to user and developer requests.
Yes, there is the initial overhead of ripping a pre-exisiting collection; but after that point the system more or less maintains itself.
Yes, people will complain about the quality of compressed audio - but hey, even on my Atlantic Technologies speakers, 256Kbps is fine for my casual listening, and I keep my Opera and Classical discs accessible for when I want the pristine experience.
And before folks say 'but you could just build a cheap box and put it next to your stereo' - yes you could, but the Audiotron is fanless, remote control accessible, and comes in a pretty 1U package.
It's the best audio purchase I've made in years, and no, I don't work for Turtle beach!
--
stubbie
How about simplifying (Score:1)
:)
If sound quality matters, forget mp3 completely