Alternatives to the Entertainment Industry? 49
Lendrick writes "With all the discussion lately about the increasing proliferation of Digital Rights Denial and the erosion of fair use rights, it occurs to me that if the entertainment manufactured by the big entertainment companies gets to a point where it's no longer worth the trouble, then maybe we should get our entertainment elsewhere. My question is this: Does anyone know of any places (apart from the obvious mp3.com) where music and especially movies by independent artists can be legitimately downloaded?"
indie film sites and band sites (Score:4, Informative)
Support them.
In addition, maybe sending an email to your favorite bands to put some mp3s up on their site could generate some interest. If a band sees that their stuff is eagerly downloaded form their site, maybe they'll start thinking about alternative means of producing and publishing their work.
Yes, there are... (Score:2, Insightful)
Okay so there are bunches of indie film sites on the web... a good start. Let's take this a step further.
Here on
This is Slashdot. Only God knows how many web designers, database programmers, and general purpose coders hit this site on a daily basis. Why haven't we fired up a community-driven initiative to build a site that allows indie groups (both video and audio-based) to sell their wares directly to the public via the web? This *really* shouldn't be all that complicated. Maybe it already exists, and none of us know about it.
I suppose the point is simple: most of the people I know would *gladly* pay a buck or two to download a couple of songs, as opposed to leeching them off [insert favorite P2P server here]. Not that there's anything technically wrong with P2P services... all I'm saying is I *know* people will pay if someone would only build a decently usable system to offer up the goods. Maybe the established music industry would take a lesson from such a venture, and get their own ball rolling as well.
I'm a perl programmer, database designer, and fairly competent GUI/page designer. Anyone want to start a forum somewhere as a central place to meet and throw ideas around? This merits action, not just conversation.
Re:Yes, there are... (Score:1)
The is a really fantastic idea. Lets show the entertainment industry how this works. Or even better get rid of the complete indutry: When every artist will sell their stuff over independent sites there is no longer any need for an industry which only wants to squeeze money out of the artist and destroying user rights.
But don't only think of music and movies. Also poems or even books should be interesting.
I would propose something slashcode based because it would be really great when every artist can submit the music/movie/book like a story and others can discuss the content. If you put the disfferent genres into subsections like the sections here on /. (apache, developers...) it will be very easy to use for everyone!
Perhaps a irc channel would be good for discussion in the beginning?
Payment method (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:indie film sites and band sites (Score:1)
If any of your favorite bands are on major labels, the chances are nearly nil that they will put mp3s on their sites.
The labels own the music -- the bands don't -- and they're too busy trying to make money off their controversial online music services to even think about offering anything for free elsewhere online.
Re:indie film sites and band sites (Score:1)
http://www.bedrock.org.uk/ (dj/producer john digweed)
http://www.perfecto-fc.com/ (dj/producer paul oakenfold)
unfortunately, neither of them actively use the web to push their music... however the P2P servers are chock full of em.
maybe i'll take my own advice and email them.
Re:indie film sites and band sites (Score:1)
John Mayer [johnmayer.com] is one of them.
besides having his music on the radio and on vh1 and mtv, he also has a really cool attitude about mp3's- "Remember, you can burn a cd but you can't burn a t-shirt."
he's also a really cool guy. He's got some interesting views on digital music- it's not an RMS or anything, but it's fair to guess what his views are while listening to "this is my napster song"
btw, Since I heard his mp3's [mp3s.com] from a friend, I've bought 2 of his CD's and took my girlfriend to see him in concert.
AND, for those who think mp3.com doesn't work, check this out [mp3.com].
your friends and co-workers are the best source (Score:3, Interesting)
I've learned about new music and expanded my international music collection.
downloading gives inconsistent quality. when I rip/encode/tag myself, I know its done right.
borrowing from co-workers totally takes the entertainment industry out of the loop (after First Sale, of course; which is all the damned rights they deserve!) and I like it that way.
furthurnet.com (Score:3, Informative)
"...a non-commercial, opensource, peer-to-peer decentralized music sharing program currently under development by PCP Networks, LLC, with much support from members of the etree.org and Sugarmegs music sharing communities.
Furthur is unlike any other music sharing software on the Internet. Furthur is the first and only 100% non-commercial peer-to-peer network of legal live music created by fans for fans! We have no paid software or website developers, nor do we accept any advertising or compensation. We are developing Furthur to help spread live music to fans. Any musician that allows the non-commercial taping and trading of their live performances are fair-game for Furthur."
There is a *lot* of free music here.
As it happens... (Score:3, Interesting)
Over at IBiblio [ibiblio.org], they've launched a plan for free community recording studios [ibiblio.org], under the condition that the recordings be public domain. I'm not convinced that this is the way to do it; I think maybe some sort of GPL for music might be better.
Re:As it happens... (Score:1)
Re:As it happens... (Score:1)
I could see the GPL being used as a sort of viral manner... anyone who records a version of the song must freely distribute it.
But the beauty of the GPL is that it's your choice to use it. If you don't like it, just use another license.
Entertainment outside industry-defined territory (Score:4, Interesting)
Andy Oram at O'Reilly has some interesting thoughts along these lines: Stop the Copying, Start a Media Revolution [openp2p.com].
If you occasionally need a bit of industry-sanctioned entertainment but don't want to fund their legal teams, get it at your local library.
Get out of the house (Score:4, Insightful)
Buy a Macintosh with a superdrive and get a camcorder. Make your own movies.
Learn an instrument and make your own music. You'll be happier and smarter.
Take up gardening, pottery, painting, sculpture etc. Have something you can give away or sell.
Getting out of the house has the added benefit of introducing you to new people. You may even meet the cute guy or girl you've always hoped to meet. Better than a chatroom cause you can see what they look like.
Or stay at home and look at pr0n and watch whatever dribble they package to replace Friends.
Stop consuming, start participating... (Score:2)
Exactly (Score:2)
I just moved into a big city (Charlotte, NC) that has a great, vibrant music scene. There's so many exciting things going on and so many great bands. There's so many shows that the only problem I have is deciding who I want to go see on that night. The best advice I can give to anyone who is sick of the crap on the radio is to get out of your house and go see some local bands play. Some of my favorite bands from Charlotte (like Hopesfall [hopesfall.com] and Beloved [belovedrock.com]) are just starting to get big beyond our little music scene. Shows are fun - you will suprised and you'll meet a ton of new people. Plus it's cheap
If you're in North Carolina checkout ncmusic.com [ncmusic.com] for show listings. Most areas have similiar sites. If not, just check in your paper or at an independent record store.
The entertainment industry: built on distribution (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that the creaters of content are so intertwined with the distributers that it'll be a long time before we see creators uncoupled from the providers. In the meantime you find that providers will only support creators that do it their way, ie, exclusively through proper channels. They also act as the middlemen between the advertisers and the creators in the case of 'free' content such as TV.
We won't see independant creaters even near the quality of current movies/music/shows/series until we show creaters that it is worth their time. The model that premium cable channels have (no ads, full unlimited access) needs to be adopted. But - guess what - no one will pay for that model. Not yet, anyway...
-Adam
Re:The entertainment industry: built on distributi (Score:2, Interesting)
One strange thing that I recently heard about from a friend is the practice of making ads on speculation. Some creative aspiring set of artist (directors, camera folks, etc) will get together and basically make an ad for free for some random company in the hopes of either selling them the rights to it after the fact or in the hopes of getting future gigs.
These ads tend to be quite a lot more interesting than those produced by your more conservative ad companies. For example, there was a speculation tampax commercial where a woman in goggles and pristine, white undies get hosed down with an firehose of blood -- very visually striking and much more creative than regular tampax ads. Yes, it's a commercial, but its very well done. And the folks putting these out are very likely to go on to more than ads as they get more funding, reputations, etc. The same might be happening in the music industry; don't know.
Still, the creators are starting to find ways to cut out some of the middlemen. There's bound to be better ways and creative minds are likely to find some. Don't give up hope yet....
Ani Difranco and Phish. (Score:4, Informative)
None of that money goes to a big corporation; most of it goes back into making music and fighting the good fight, so to speak. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, go support Ani and the artists she publishes.
If you just want free music, you should get involved with etree.org [etree.org], which is a community that distributes "bootlegs" of live concerts...the bootlegs are legal, recorded from performances of taper-friendly bands, such as Phish, older Grateful Dead shows, Bela Fleck...stuff like that. The bands that allow this tend to fit a certain profile (lots of improvising, etc), so if you don't like songs that can be fed to you in 3.5 minutes between commercials, you aren't going to like this avenue, however, there is a genuine community being fostered here that tends to be more artistic and intellectual, and frequently, very tight-knit for a bunch of virtual strangers. It's kind of cool, actually, and unlike the P2P mentality of leeching everything you can, there's a sense of the value of contributing back.
etree.org also happens to be Linux-friendly; there are links for XMMS plugins on the frontpage, etc.
The ultimate problem of these massive media corporations is they _do_ have a product that you want. I mean, if you want N'Sync (or that Episode 2 DVD, or some new Disney-owned Anime, etc...), then you can only get it in one place. I can also respect that not everyone is going to be falling over themselves for the latest release from indie band Bitch and Animal [bitchandanimal.com], but you _can_ consider this a chance to broaden your horizons; entertainment doesn't have to be mindless, and can in fact be a bettering activity.
Get out there and try something new.
--ryan.
Hmm... (Score:1)
Do what I did: get a girlfriend.
Re:Hmm... (Score:2, Funny)
Dude, if you thought the DMCA was a bad law, just look at the rules a girlfriend can make!
emusic.com (Score:1)
The idea is that record labels (Indies) sign up and share 50% of the company's income based on fair download statistics.
The cost is $10 a month given a year's commitment and the selection is staggering (if you're into non-mainstream music).
Anyone know of any downsides?
dan
Re:emusic.com (Score:2, Interesting)
I think somebody is planning a PLAN B if bullying doesn't work.
You sure get your money's worth, though... (Score:2)
The recommendations engine isn't half-bad, either. I like a large chunk of the stuff it picks out for me.
So, yeah, you gave Vivendi $45. But you used a buttload of their bandwidth, and got a bazillion albums on top of it.
Two Words... (Score:2)
I know you can't electronically, but entertainment on physical media ain't going anywhere for a long time. Find a good used CD shop and give them your business.
Who needs an industry? (Score:2, Insightful)
Back in the Good Ole' Days(tm) they didn't have recordings of the superstars. If you wanted music, you played it, or hired someone who could do it for you, for those higher in finance than in talent. And if you were lucky/dedicated/rich&famous you could hear the superstars.
I think we'd all be a lot better off in this sort of thing if we didn't think of "entertainment" as "recorded performances by strangers". Instead, try to think of it as "participation in the act of creation".
Re:Who needs an industry? (Score:2)
Re:Who needs an industry? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's actually the point of the question. The entertainment industry lost me when they became an industry. What I'd like to find out is where I can find real art created by real people who are creating for fun, not profit.
To all those who have said I should create something myself--I do. I write. I also program in my spare time. However, it's nice at times to sit back, relax, and enjoy someone else's creation.
Peace,
Lendrick
Uh... (Score:2)
It depends on your quality threshold. (Score:3, Interesting)
As a producer, composer, and general content creator, I think that looking for quality entertainment is the critical concern. There's plenty of stuff out there, the trick is finding the good stuff. And with a few notable exceptions (Ani DiFranco, etc.) you aren't going to find it at your local Best Buy, and maybe not even at your local record store (if any of those still exist). For now, the web is where it's at.
While certainly not a litmus test for quality, you can at least trust that artists that use alternate distribution like CDBaby [cdbaby.com] to provide distribution for self-produced/funded titles at least cared enough about their music to scrounge up the money to press a CD and arrange for distribution.
If you're willing to trudge through some crap (albeit interesting crap in many cases), the big music sites like IUMA [iuma.com], MP3.com [mp3.com], and Garageband [garageband.com] provide more tracks than you'll be able to listen to.
One hint for the more commercial sites like MP3.com - skip the charts occasionally. The way the MP3.com charts work, you'll typically get a song at number 1 that stays at number 1 for a long time because everyone's listening to it because it's number 1. A self-perpetuating hit, if you will. Also, ever since Vivendi bought MP3.com out, there have been an awful lot of mainstream artists in the top charts. Still, if you're looking for mainstream, you can at least get a "legal" mp3 of a bunch of stuff there.
An additional hint, you'll find some real gems in the less-traveled genres like film music, darkwave, folk, comedy, etc.
Finally, there are lots of small independent labels/artist collectives like RTFM Records [rtfmrecords.com] that have quality artists that either got tired of working in the mainstream entertainment business, or were smart enough to try and slog it out themselves. Supporting labels like these is a good way to encourage more of the same.
I don't have much advice for you on the movie side of things - I think with the advent of cheap digital camcorders and products like iMovie and Final Cut Pro, you'll see more of this kind of content hitting the web in the next year or two, though. Especially as more people get broadband, which is more or less required for visual stuff.
One site I can recommend if you're into fan-produced Star Wars stuff is theforce.net [theforce.net] which has quite a few short films and trailers of varying quality. There's also an absolutely stunning short film set in the Star Wars universe called Duality [crewoftwo.com] that you just have to see to believe.
Finally, I'd like to put a plug in for a new benefit album created by a bunch of musicians from around the world in response to the WTC/Pentagon attacks. The album, September Rising [cdbaby.com], is now available. It was put together by a bunch of pros, most of whom have never met each other face to face. Complete information is available at septemberrising.org [septemberrising.org]. It's some really great stuff, and unlike most of the benefit albums coming from the major entertainment conglomerates who only donated a percentage of sales, I believe that all proceeds from sales of this album go to the New York Firefighters 9-11 Disaster Relief Fund.
Re:It depends on your quality threshold. (Score:2)
UPDATE: Whoops... look like garageband.com has bitten the electronic dust, at least for the time being.
Garageband.com is dead (Score:1)
And after vivendi bought mp3.com it has SUCKED royally. All the good musicians left and the scene was killed. Now all that is left is corporate shill promoting the same mp3's over and over again. Actually the charts on mp3.com are now rigged so only songs vivendi wants promoted get promoted.
Afrosquad (Score:1)
Great streaming DJs (Score:2, Informative)
They have a store where you can sample and buy Vinyl, but if you check out the broadcast [groovetech.com]section you can get live DJs mixing for you 12 hours a day from Seattle, London and San Francisco.
If you're not into what's playiing live, then check out the archives [groovetech.com]. There's probably over a thousand hour-2hour sets all nicely searchable by genre, date and dj.
Another good site (though the archives seem broken to me now) is thewomb.com [thewomb.com]. Those of you from Miami will recognise that thewomb.com is a rebroadcast of one fo the local radio stations.
Anyone into funky/spoulful/disco house should check their favorite p2p application for terrance parker. He's a dj along the lines of dimitri from paris, but 10X better and from detroit.
Thewomb.com also has videos of some cool stuff if you can wait for the download.
That's what I do for original music on the web. I haven't run out of sets to try on groovetech.com yet, though I have my favorites that I listen to occasionaly. Groovetech.com also has streaming video of the dj's mixing, so having a really cute dj spinning funky breaks is a nice perk(naha, requires realplayer or equiv) [groovetech.com]
Four Words: (Score:2)
From Troma... Of Course!
Seriously - Troma studios is (in)famous for producing gore flicks, but they really do work hard to promote independant and underrated films. They were the ones who brought over "My Neighbor Totoro" from the same people who brought you "Princess Mononoke" (which was distributed by Disney), and distributed Trey Parker and Matt Stone's (of South Park fame) hilarious "Cannibal: the Musical".
Troma also runs the reactionary "Tromadance Film Festival". Sundance was supposed to be about showcasing independant films, but got taken over by the studios and is now where hundred million dollar blockbusters get screened for the stars of Hollywood. Tromadance has very simple entrace requirements: send 'em $10 and a copy of the flick. It's hosted some pretty decent movies that went on to sucessful art house runs (and a bunch of really interesting crap).
Lloyd Kaufman is the president of Troma, and he has written a book recently that both covers how to be a sucessful independant film maker, and has plenty of amusing ancedotes about his experiences. He's really fought for the indie film scene, and is one of the few that has made some serious headway, and *stayed* in the trenches, looking for more good people to give a boost to. Troma's also one of the few studios that looks at a DVD, and just tosses as much neat stuff as they can until the DVD has no free space left on the disc. Shorts, trailers, ad libs, "makings of" documentaries about other films, whatever they found around the studio when they mastered the disc.
--
Evan
How about the other side? (Score:3, Interesting)
Because of where this band operates (the lowlands), it's unlikely that they'll be able to reach over the Atlantic through the normal channels, and I've been thinking that the way to go for them would be the internet. Seeing as what they're after at the moment is exposure (as opposed to huge profits, a little money would be interesting, though), what would be the best way to get attention to their gig?
I understand the first stop would be a good website that announces their presence on the world of music... but what then?
They already have the bare-bones website [kidstardust.com] up 'n' running (it needs A LOT of work, though), but how do you get the people coming in, and possibly paying a small amount for the tracks they like and download?
BTW, they have some six tracks up for download [kidstardust.com]
Interesting. (Score:2)
Awfully hostile answer to someone who was asking to do just that.
Get a clue and go see a recital at your local college, go to art gallery or museum, go to your community theatre, go see a local band, go to a bluegrass festival, get off the goddamn computer!!!
FYI, one of the things that the internet is supposed to be is a distribution channel for art and information. What really excites people is that, for a very small amount of money (less than $100/year in hosting costs), an artist can reach a virtually unlimited number of people. My assumption is that there are people out there doing just that--I just want to know where to find them.
As for local stuff: I *do* go to the local theatre at times. The local band scene, though, is mostly just grunge, which I'm not really a fan of.
Lendrick
Indie music (Score:1)
NPR and PBS are a good start (Score:2, Informative)
Re:NPR and PBS are a good start (Score:1)
Re:NPR and PBS are a good start (Score:1)
Besides spyware is just part of the game these days [slashdot.org]. As if Real is the only client [slashdot.org] that installs spyware [slashdot.org].
We should all have the same skepticism about blindly installing free clients (non-opensource) that we all have about blindly running exes that we get in email. There are plenty of forums to find out what exactly gets installed. May the installer beware.
Remember the original article was about avoiding big media and their tricks, not finding an entertainment utopia.
Comment removed (Score:4, Informative)
MaxJazz (Score:1)
MaxJazz [maxjazz.com] is a smallish jazz label that does not belong to the RIAA. They have sample mp3s available for download, although I have not checked them for quality.
DISCLAIMER: The only artists I'm familiar with on that label are Laverne Butler and Bruce Barth. Other artists quality may vary.
An interesting story: I bought my first Laverne Butler CD after hearing one of her songs on one of AT&T's digital music channels. Actually, that may not be interesting at all, but there it is.