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Getting Started with GIS? 46

Posted by Cliff from the novice-digital-cartographers dept.
The Plan 9 Bunny asks: "A company I work for is just getting starting to work with GIS and they want me to get it up and running. However, I don't know a damn thing about it. There's a slew of information on the Internet -- of widely varying quality. If the software is from ESRI, what would be a satisfactory starting point when it comes to laying the latticework for learning GIS? A plethora of books have been written about it, but like any subject, some are better than others. Also, I'm interested to hear about GIS horror stories: what to avoid, what NOT to purchase, etc... The ultimate goal is to have the data available on a publicly accessible webserver so clients can access it without needing the $30,000 worth of hardware and software. Can this be done with a UNIX-based solution, or are we yet again stuck in an NT world?" Those interested in GIS may wish to check out the last article we did on the subject. Considering the question, this older article on GIS mapping may also be of interest.
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Getting Started with GIS? More

Getting Started with GIS?

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  • Questions (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by spencerogden ( 49254 )
    Why does it seem like, lately every Ask Slashdot question is along the lines of "Uh.. I have to do something for work/school... Not really sure where to start... What do you guys think?". It seems to me that questions should be posted only when they are interesting. Its not like useful info ever comes out of these questions anyways (Atleast nothing a google search wouldn't tell you).

    P.S. I have a pascal compiler due for school. Anyone know where I should start?

    • Re:Questions (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Why the hell is there always bitching in the comments of a story that the story shouldn't have been posted? If you don't want to read the story, follow the links, or add to the discussion then don't! No one wants to hear you bitch!

      I am also very aware of the irony in me posting this. I know that if I didn't want to read the comments which include you bitching then I could skip over them. That is the reason I haven't got this rant off my chest earlier. Even though I see this parallel, I am sure that some of you will point it out to me anyway. Feel free.

      Just please stop complaining about why stories were posted. "This isn't news" or "Why do the Ask Slashdot questions always suck" posts are dumb. Just because something isn't interesting to you doesn't mean that it isn't to someone else, it obviously was to the editor who posted it. If you don't have anything useful to add then just refrain from pressing the reply button.

      Thank you.

    • Re:Questions (Score:2, Interesting)

      by The Plan 9 Bunny ( 576615 )
      This was my Ask Slashdot question, so here's the deal, just to put the kibosh on the usual round of pissing and moaning, and especially the "use Google" and "why do we have to do your work?"

      One: You don't have to. There's a dozen other slashdot stories. It's a favor, and if you're not up for assisting, then don't.

      Two: GIS is not some crazy fucking one-time use thing. There's a hell of a lot of people in the EXACT same place as the Plan 9 Bunny, and any collective knowledge that can be amassed in one particular forum will help the collective good. Google crawls this site like mad, and the results are usually high on its list. So it helps a lot of people by being easily searchable.

      Three: Google has a shitload of information, but it is impossible to determine the validity of it. My question addressed this. Hell yes, I searched Google. Mostly, I found ESRI stuff -- the prime seller of GIS stuff. Do you think that ESRI themselves will admit to publishing a shitty book on GIS? However, maybe some slashdot reader has read the ESRI stuff and can comment on its utility and validity (or lack of), or perhaps recommend an alternate text.

      Four: This is the best spot on the Internet for discovering Linux (and UN*X) alternatives to expensive, proprietary solutions. Google is scant in this respect. If a project is new, or relatively unknown, it won't be high on the Google list. GIS is exploding, so truly functional alternatives have to be new if they are to be on par with the commercial options.

      Five: Here's a good place to start for your Pascal compiler project. [google.com]

      Six: Even at 19 replies currently, 18 if you don't count your irrational rant, at least half have been helpful and insightful. That's already well above what I found on Google -- and I trust this information. Anyone who is willing to donate their time to answer my questions is likely to Have a Clue.
  • Getting Started with Geographic Information Systems by Keith Clarke (ISBN 0-13-294786-2). [amazon.com] Short and skimmable for important info. It's a bit dated (1996) but will give you a quick overview of GIS terms before you move on to more specific needs (ESRI vs. Intergraph), and your local library probably has a copy. There are shortcomings to both packages, and you'll need to know something about what your people want to do with the GIS in order to select the best package. And, yes, Virginia, there is a Unix version. My employer (a university in the northeast) is a Sun house and we use ESRI's packages on a dozen SunBlade 1000s.

  • ESRI (Score:2, Informative)

    by Gaetano ( 142855 )
    ESRI seems to have a split personality. They are very much a Windows shop. (They are based in Olympia Washington, Redmonds north a ways but pretty close). But some of their software is still in Unix and at least on of their current products is based on java.

    Their Spacial Database Engine (SDE) runs on many databases including Unix, but those who have had to work with it in my agency havn't had much good to say about it. It does work, but backwards compatibility doesn't seem to be a priority with ESRI and our developers have to check everything. Whenever I bring it up, even in the GIS department, there is always a groan of discontent.

    ArcInfo is a windows only based product as of version 8. You can still get ArcInfo version 7.something for Solaris but last I heard they don't plan on making another Unix version. They do alot with "map objects" which is as I understand it very useful in Visual Basic and other COM based RADs but useless outside of windows.

    They do have a new version of ArcIMS (Internet Mapping Server) which runs on the Struts framework [apache.org] from the Jakarta project. We just got version 4.0 a couple days ago but havn't opened the box yet. Hopefully it will be better than previous versions. I can say that ArcIMS 3.1 was MUCH better than ArcIMS version 3.0.

    As a web developer I have been lusting over MapInfo's products [mapinfo.com] but alas we already have ERSI in house and MapInfo and ESRI have never played well together.

    If I wanted to deploy on a unix platform, just from what I have heard and seen thus far, I would look at MapInfo's product unless there is something you need that they can't do and ESRI can.

    • "They are based in Olympia Washington, Redmonds" actually i think they are "based in" Redlands.. http://www.esri.com/company/contactusa.html
      • Oops! You are right. They have an office in Olympia which is the office my agency deals with. (We are in Portland Oregon).
        • "We just got version 4.0 a couple days ago"

          did you get the linux(redhat) version?

          my agency is moving towards ArcIms. I took the training (waste of time). im interested in what it will be like to install ArcIms 4.0 on Debian.

          • No, I'm afraid not. We will be deploying the Solaris version of 4.0. But from what I have seen with version 3.1 I would guess that since its written in java you should have no problems that you wouldn't have any more problems than me or someone deploying on windows. (fingers crossed)
            • "you should have no problems that you wouldn't have any more problems than me or someone deploying on windows. (fingers crossed)"

              (that's fingers crossed and evidently not reading his posts before he clicks submit).
  • If you're interested in a free, Linux-based internet mapserver, check out MapServer [umn.edu]. It even imports ESRI shapefiles, which I guess is the most widespread data format for GIS (it being very much a Window$ World)
  • I can tell you out of experience that Intergraph products look all cool and slick, but down in the trenches they dont play nicely with anything, not even other Intergraph programs...

    esri products blow intergraph out of the water. ArcIMS is far superior that geomedia webmap, giving you much more control over the data. webmap is more for viewing data, arcims is for manipulation and dynamic queries and such.

    The Esri shapefile format is pretty much the standard.

  • ESRI and learning (Score:3, Informative)

    by rediguana ( 104664 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @06:52PM (#3446900)
    I too have been getting up to speed on GIS this year. I'm doing a Postgrad Dip in it at the moment. From all accounts ESRI is the defacto standard amongst most governmental bodies - councils, states, defense etc. Here in NZ ESRI is very strong - about 11 from 14 regional councils use ESRI. And yes it is windows only, the internal scripting which used to be Avenue, now uses Visual Basic. You also have objects that you can chuck in other VB applications to provide instant access to maps. This is not so bad when you consider that as a proportion of the total cost of the GIS, the hardware and software represent a small percentage of the total outlay - most of the expense comes back to data collection and management.

    For a good theoretical background on GIS, Burrough et al (1998) Principles of Geographical Information Systems is proving quite good. For practical experience try ESRI's campus [esri.com] where a number of free and/or cheap (compared to training courses) practical courses in GIS are provided.
    Hope this helps!
    Cheers Gav

  • KISS (Score:2)

    by catfoo ( 576397 )

    GIS is a vast field even if you dont throw in web access to data. narrow down your interest or hire someone to do the GIS side and you do the web access side.

    web server..
    MapServer [umn.edu] - works and is mature and stable
    ESRI's GIS data server [esri.com] is super expensive but the new version runs on Linux
    PDFMap [freegis.org] - combine this with mapserver so that your users can download maps they make
    SVG [freegis.org] - ive seen some cools things happening with SVG
    MRSID [lizardtech.com] - for image compression, costs for the compressor but i have built some cool stuff [csuchico.edu]with thier free server.

    desktop...
    ESRI has a free viewer [esri.com] which reads a XML file. its works ok. there is a Linux version but i havnt used it yet. all of the free (not open source) GIS viewers suck in one way or another cause the companys have some "real" version they really want you to buy (ala ESRI).
    Free GIS [freegis.org] .. if its open source and GIS its at freegis.org but frankly there isnt allot built out yet thats simple yet modular and will grow with GIS users as they begin to get specialized (image interp, business siteing, habitat annalysis, etc).

    theres GRASS and some others but nothing close to the commercial products (unfortuantely). furthermore all of the commercial products are over priced. you have to spend 3,000$ US (single licence) to get anything at ESRI that works. If your going to manage a GIS data collection you should get ArcView but try to find a free solution for end users on the desktop. look at combining MapServer and some of the Content Management systems that are out there for developing GIS access online.

  • TIGR data is dated, but free (Score:4, Informative)

    by coyote-san ( 38515 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:22PM (#3447133)
    This isn't a direct answer to your question, but the USGS has made its TIGR data set available for FREE download. This data is dated (looking at some of the places I've lived, it looks like it's about 15-20 years old now), but if you're learning how to work with GIS data it's good enough.

    And did I mention it's FREE? This is a non-trivial concern - I'm pretty sure this is the dataset that Bruce Perens bought a number of years ago to turn over to OSS projects, at a cost of something like $2000. But now you can download it from their website.

    If you go this way, you'll need at least 16 GB for the data. You'll also need to write your own ISO-8821 decoder. It's not too hard - it's not even hard to write tools that can read the compressed tar balls directly. But knowing what to do with that data is another matter....
    • Are you maybe thinking of the Census Bureau's TIGER [census.gov] data (which are the data Bruce Perens is distributing [perens.com])? The USGS [usgs.gov] has over 400 web sites, and they don't appear to be distributing TIGR data on their bureau level home page (I don't have the patience to hit all the others, and a search didn't turn up much). The USGS distributes data in SDTS, GeoTIFF, and other handy semi-generic formats that Arc loves.

      If you are looking for data (the original askslashdot doesn't mention needing any, but jic) EROS Data Center [usgs.gov] and the GIS Data Depot [geocomm.com] are my favorite spots. Oh, yes, and the data are free.

      • SDTS is a superset of ISO-8821. (8821 specifies how the data is formatted, SDTS specifies what it means.)

        The dataset I have is the 1:100,000 DLG data, but I don't seem to have recorded the URL of the website. But I definitely recall the data being described as "TIGR", not "TIGER."
    • Try there. I downloaded a ton of mapfiles from that site to begin trying to figure out how to convert them into something i can use for realtime navigation in my car.

      I haven't gotten very far. But there are plenty 'o maps for download.
  • You might also want to look into PostGIS. It's a set of extensions to PostgreSQL so that the later understands shape files, etc.

    Their site should also have pointers to some projects that have successfully used the software.

  • OpenMAP (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is really cool software which can either create and serve up images, or act as an interactive front end. It's open source, and very well engineered. Check it out [openmap.org]
  • I was also fairly recently put in charge of creating some ArcIMS web sites at work. A pretty good online resource I've used to get up to speed on GIS is the ESRI virtual campus at http://campus.esri.com/ They have some free courses where you can learn the basics of GIS and some reasonably priced ~$100 more advanced courses. I was fairly suprized at how good they were.
  • Well... normally I'm all yahoo for linux and unix, but if your solution happens to require NT, then what's the big deal? Access licenses? You won't need Access, since - and I'll be Frank - GIS mapping software usually runs on SQL Server, and it really is better to support the commercial software, which is much safer and more virus free than open source, which I hear is currently infested with a nasty vires called gepeelle, or something like that...

  • GIS (Score:2)

    by Xenex ( 97062 )
    I saw 'GIS' and thought "Hurrah! New Geeks in Space [thesync.com]! Woo!".

    Then read the whole thing.

    *sigh*
  • One word: BUGGY!
    that's my only impression of it, after taking an intro to GIS class and going through the exercises. I dont know what happened, but with a version number 8.1, it ought to be pretty damn well tested by that version, but no...
    GIS software isnt something extremly complex. take some bitmaps, some vectors and some points, layer them for display, throw in some CIS101 Algorythms and voila.

    Okay, second word: Inconsistent interface! not very MFC-adhering. and for godssake, the wheel mouse doesnt work! how annoying when dealing w/ LONG lists of data.

    alright, last word: clueless error messages. an operation doesnt work, and you get a non-descriptive error message which gives you no clues as to why it didnt work. In one case, operations were half completing then bombing out because I still had a spreedsheet open w/ excel in the background. No error message saying "Oh this file is in use by another program, we dont like that", just "Error". other cases not in mind right now.
  • If you are looking at the ESRI offerings, Modeling Our World (ISBN: 1-879102-62-5) is a pretty good introduction to ESRI's technologies for GIS.

    My company develops GIS applications for utilities (power, water, sewer, gas, etc.) and we are an ESRI business partner, and I am a former Intergraph employee, so I won't get into who's best/worst in the business discussion.

    I will say that GIS is a pretty wide open field, since very few colleges have undergraduate GIS programs and what most people need to find good jobs in the field is GIS combined with a solid Computer Science background. ArcInfo/ArcMap/SDE/ArcIMS give you the tools to "do" GIS, but they do require training and good knowledge of fundamental GIS principles. To create systems that combine GIS with day-to-day operations, you need to be able to customize these tools and/or create new applications that utilize these tools, which requires a combination of Computer Science and GIS (or a steep learning curve of on-the-job training).

    If your GIS applications are strictly "in-house", you have much wider choices. ESRI has a lot of marketing and inertia behind their products, so you will find many GIS houses with an strong devotion to ESRI as a "standard" and many commercial data sources are going to be oriented toward that "standard".

  • I had a great time learning introductory use of GIS in a graduate class I took on using GIS in schools. Since the focus was on learning GIS to apply it at the elementary, middle school, and high school level, we didn't go too far into the possibilities. ESRI [esri.com] is indeed the place to start. In addition to one of their big, thick books [esri.com] that was pretty useful as a reference bible for basic commands, we also went through the introductory course on their Virtual Campus [esri.com]. The course was very well constructed (and this is a computer teacher speaking here) and mirrored what the book discussed. The first module [esri.com] of the Introduction to ArcView GIS 3.x is availble free for trial. The nice thing about the courses is that they include a working model version of the program being taught. This means that you can work out exercises in a controlled environment. For this reason, I would recommend the course in addition to the book (for later reference).

    Note that the above are for the older, 3.x version of ArcView. Information on the newer ArcView 8 can be found in book [esri.com] and online course [esri.com] formats.

    I hope that helps some. What I would ask in return is that when your company gets going with GIS you help promote the use of GIS in Schools [esri.com] (book [esri.com]) by helping any local schools that are interested in getting started with this. School/Business partnerships benefit everybody, especially when it provides the schools with alternatives and additions to the standard Microsoft [microsoft.com]/Intel [intel.com] curriculum.

  • I have downloaded a chunk of the US census' free maps from ftp.census.gov, and started playing with stuff available from www.freegis.org, but I haven't been able to get the two to work together.

    How the heck do I take the free maps (in particular, the layers with roads, borders, parks, forests, water, and other useful navigation stuff) and use them for realtime navigation with something like GPSDrive?

    Is there any free nav software that will use shapefiles directly?

    And what about the 2000 census data? It doesn't seem to be in a format I can even determine.

    Any help is greatly appreciated. If I can ever get it working, I'll write a HOWTO.
  • I currently work in a lab primarily focused on dealing with end-users of GIS. We run a pure windows 2000 setup, though we used to have a few solaris machines sitting around for advanced projects. One issue that comes up with all of them is the ability to print.

    We originally started running our print spooler off a netware box, which had the tendency to crash every few days. Then, we tried a unix box, which still had issues with crashing. Now, we use a win2k box for printer spooling, and the print spooler crashes after about 12 hours of use. This is a major pain for people needing to export stuff to paper.
  • I took a course on GIS last year, the website is still online -- for a while at least! Check it out at:

    http://geography.rutgers.edu/courses/01fall/321/ in dex.html

    What's important to realize is GIS isn't some magic program, but a way of looking at a problem to find possible solutions. Any other use besides that is a waste of time and money, and you should just use maps.

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