VMware and Games? 34
gunnk asks: "Here's the deal: I really, really, REALLY want to avoid having a Windows partition on my computer, but I have some nifty games that I still want to play (particularly Civ III). I own a copy of VMware, but Civ3 coughs up an error telling me I'm running a debugger and need to unload it when I try to start the game. All this seems to come up due to copy protection in games. Someone asked something like this over at WINE and was told to grab a copy of the exe without the protection via gamecopyworld. That didn't work for me either (didn't run). Anyone finding any reliable ways to run these games without a Windows partition?"
Sorry (Score:1)
Even if you manage to get the games work, the performance will probably make you sick and if not the performance, than the video output will.
Re:Sorry (Score:3, Informative)
For games, VMWare does not support any type of DirectX hardware acceleration at all (do they even support DirectX in any configuration?). So don't even think about trying to play a 3D game. I tried Quake3 once, just to see, and it crashed the VM hard.
My Problem (Score:1)
Have some cake (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, for things like this, you often have to make a choice. Sometimes it's a choice between your principles and your desires.
You do have some options for MS-free gaming, most notably Wine and WineX. Or you could limit yourself to games that are available for Linux. TuxGames still has all (most?) of Loki's games available for sale. You could also move to OSX or console gaming.
Or you could decide that your gaming is more important that having an MS-free desktop. And that's okay. What's important is that you decide what's important to you and then follow through on that. If supporting free/open source software is what's important to you, then losing some of your games will be a sacrifice - but, ultimately, it's one that you'll want to make. On the other hand, if gaming is what you want, then just go for it and don't feel guilty about it.
As long as you're not shunning MS just to prove your eliteness...
Re:Have some cake - Offtopic entymology (Score:2)
As the story goes, when confronted with this shortage of food among the poor, Marie supposedly said "Let them eat cake!". Imagine a shortage of dairy products, but all available milk was used to make Elmers glue. Elmer hears us all scream for Ice-cream, and replies "let them eat glue!"
It is not difficult to imagine the corruption of language and history bringing about the phrase in question. Perhaps those freaks who want to consume the lactation of a female bull without regard to the myriad health problems caused by such an unnatural act (including leaching of bone minerals) demand all of the milk Elmer has. He not only relinquished his supply of paste to the revolting fellows, he suggests that they eat it too.
come forth ye moderators. Let he who who is not redundant cast the first Offtopic, making thyself redundant in light of the title.
Re:Have some cake (Score:1)
From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman:
"You can't have your cake and eat it too -- One can't use something up and still have it to enjoy. This proverb was recorded in the book of proverbs by John Heywood in 1546, and is first attested in the United States in the 1742 'Colonial Records of Georgia' in 'Original Papers, 1735-1752.'
So basically, imagine a huge, beautiful, wedding-style cake put on a pedestal for display. You can't both eat the cake, and still have it there to enjoy as a decoration. You have to make a choice.
Another good analogy for the situation is to imagine the old attidute towards women (which is probably still around in places). You can't have a virginal, "pure" bride, and still take her to the bedroom and fuck her like a $2 whore. Because then she's not pure anymore. You have to make a choice.
Re:Have some cake (Score:1)
But then, intelligence seems to make everyone scurry around like cockroaches in light here on slashdot.
WineX? (Score:2, Informative)
As far as cost is concerned, winex is alot cheaper than vmware. You get a small say in how the development is directed along with the use of winex.
Re:WineX? (Score:1)
David
(now, back to conquering the russians)
Re:WineX? (Score:2)
[Does happy dance.]
Newsgroup Questions (Score:1)
Re:Newsgroup Questions (Score:1)
Although, this is where everybody tells me I just need to refresh my browser and I get modded down to -10: Idiot!
Can't have your cake and eat it too (Score:2)
What I suggest you do is set up a minimal Windows partition, with only necessary Windows components installed (i.e., insert Windows install CD, and uncheck everything; even networking -- you can d/l your updates on your Linux partition and move them to the Windows partition). Then install the games on that Windows partition. That's how I have it for my games (Descent 1 - 3, Tombraider 1 - 5, Prince of Persia 1 & 2, Magic Carpet, and Jane's USAF). You'll probably want to twiddle with it a little bit to optimize it for gaming.
This works great for me because I don't plan on buying any new games (unless a new Descent or Tomb Raider comes out), as almost everything new I see on the market really really sucks (the one exception is Sacrafice, which I might at some point buy).
Some of the Linux zealots will tell you if you want to stick to principles, you should dump all Windows games and buy up Linux games. Personally, I think this is bullshit. I paid good money for my games (when I first bought Tomb Raider 4, it costed 30 dollars; Descent 2 was 50 dollars; etc). Asking people to throw away hundreds of dollars worth of investment is ludacrous, and I don't recommend you do it; not only that, but there are no ports for many games (i.e., where's the Linux port for Tombraider?).
Mostly, this isn't the fault of the Linux community but of MS, because they won't allow anyone the necessary information to make good (i.e., 95+% performance) emulators, which would be possible.
You can be a Troll and bite it too (Score:2)
Why is your "only necessary Windows" subset any better than a standard Windows install?
I don't know about your zealots, but a consciencious Free Software supporter (e.g. RMS) would suggest you don't buy any new games... almost like you plan not to do... unless they support your morals. As for the software you already own, it is fine to keep them until you can find (write) a free replacement.
Mostly, (the lack of a "Linux" port for Tombraider) isn't the fault of the Linux community or of MS, but of Eidos, because they won't allow anyone the necessary information to make good (i.e., 95+% performance) emulations, which would be possible.
Oh? Eidos shouldn't have to release it's sources? Why should Microsoft? DOS was the platform for games, not Windows. Microsoft developed, promoted, and improved DirectX to the point where it can be considered comparable to OpenGL in many aspects, and the preferred target for most modern games. The Linux community is responsible for a kernel, not an OS, and much less a game. Microsoft is responsible for a Kernel, an OS, and an "industry standard" gaming interface, why should they be responsible for an interactive showcase for monstrous breast renderings?
Sorry, troll, try again.
Partition. (Score:3, Insightful)
Why?
It seems like you really, really, REALLY want to run Windows software. And you'll really, really, REALLY have to buy a Windows license anyway, whether you use VMWare or dual-boot.
Is rebooting into the other OS really, really, REALLY such a hassle that you're willing to deal with the poor performance of VMWare?
--saint
Re:Partition. (Score:1)
You're not going to get any GPL geek points by running Windows in an emulator versus running it in a native partition.
You're still using a Microsoft product, and giving them one more customer, even though you've got the warm fuzzy feeling that "Oh, it's not a REAL Windows installation - it's just emulated". You're no less guilty than any other user of "supporting" Microsoft - in fact, you're actually saying that Windows is SO IMPORTANT to you that you're willing to jump through hoops to use it, even to the extent of emulation to run it.
Make or break software choices (Score:2)
It's a playing around machine, I'd like to play with Linux, but I'm not willing to give up Civ III.
License, schmicense... got more of those than machines, who cares?
--Mike--
Re:Make or break software choices (Score:1)
If you can't hold out because of a game, Linux is definately not for you. Linux requires some patience and a certain temperament to get it to do everything you'll probably want.
Should you find yourself having difficulty when the change rests on holding out on a game, you just aren't ready for the switch, or maybe Linux isn't ready for you.
We'll be happy to see you when you are though!
Re:Make or break software choices (Score:2)
Eh, Maybe It'll Work, Maybe Not (Score:1)
This is a tough one. VMware Workstation seems better suited for quick "oh shit, I need Windows for something" tasks and for running "productivity" applications (games certainly don't qualify ;).
The problem is that VMware doesn't even try to expose any kind of 3D (or, really, any kind of hardware-accelerated DirectX-style stuff); you get a fast 2D video adapter (passed through to X), a decent sound card (passed through to your sound driver, if any), and USB passthrough (I can use a scanner in a VM running Windows XP that Linux itself doesn't have a driver for -- how whacked is that? :), but that's it.
For anything that requires even moderately good performance in 2D, you're not going to find it in VMware. And forget about 3D stuff (I know you mentioned just Civ III, but hey, others might read my rantings too :).
As others have suggested, WineX is your best in-Linux bet. Otherwise, fire up parted, shrink down your Linux partition(s) a bit, reserve a bit of slack space for Windows, make a GRUB boot disk, install Windows 95/98/ME/2k/XP/whatever on that new partition, then use the boot disk to unscrew your original boot loader :)
I shun Microsoft products, too, but when it comes to playing Imperium Galactica II or Homeworld or Unreal Tournament, or, really, anything else, it's time for a reboot into the smallish Windows partition. *sigh*. At least I'll never buy an Xbox, eh? :)
Re:Eh, Maybe It'll Work, Maybe Not (Score:5, Interesting)
I can use a scanner in a VM running Windows XP that Linux itself doesn't have a driver for -- how whacked is that? :)
Not that whacked. Try this one:
My company provides me with a VPN client for when I'm on the road. It has two modes; it can act as a modem dialer or it can run over a regular network connection (it uses IPSec in either case). There is no Linux version, only windows.
So, when I want to dial in, I fire up Win2K in VMWare and run the dialer. It talks through a virtual serial port to my Lucent winmodem (for which I have Linux drivers) and dials in. Cool, my VMWare session has connectivity to the corporate network. But I want Linux to have that as well. No problem, I configure Win2K to do "connection sharing" (aka NAT) and configure Linux to use the VMWare "box" as it's default route. If you don't think that's whacked draw a little diagram of the data flow :)
But what about when I'm on a LAN? A little iptables magic and my Linux box acts as a nice little NATing router for the Windows "box" (yes, VMWare can do it's own NAT automatically, but iptables is to that as a swiss army knife is to a letter opener). I fire up the VPN software and then the Windows "box" has an encrypted tunnel to the corporate network, routed through Linux. But I want Linux to have access as well! Okay, here's how: give the Win2K "box" another host-only virtual network adapter, on a different private subnet. Then configure connection sharing on the virtual adapter that's being routed through Linux. Then configure Linux to route outbound connections to the corporate network to the Windows "box" over the "non-shared" connection. Voila!
But many of the LANs I connect to have firewalls that can't deal with IPSec (which is a problem with the firewall software, not, in most cases anyway, a configuration choice by the admin). So, I create an IP over IP tunnel (through some other protocol that will pass the firewall) to my server at home, which routes the tunneled IPSEC packets to my corporate VPN server (and back). It's amusing when I'm at a client site with a team and I'm the only one that can get access to the VPN. I haven't yet had the opportunity, but I expect one of these days I'll end up providing NAT services to teammates' Windows machines to give them access to the VPN. Draw a picture of that and tell me it doesn't curl your toes! The most difficult part is getting permission from the client to do it. They always think that anything that weird must be breaking their security policies in some way.
Although it's not quite as whacked as the networking, I also have a handheld device with an IR interface. Only Windows software exists for it, and that software won't work on Win2K because Microsoft discontinued support for the IRCOMM protocol, and that's all the software will use. Actually, the software really only knows how to use a serial port, but under, for example, Win98 you could create a virtual serial port that actually talked IRCOMM over the IR interface. I don't want to use Win98. So, I configure my IR port to use IRCOMM under Linux and associate it with a serial port (/dev/ttyS1, actuall). Then I configure VMWare to expose /dev/ttyS1 as a serial port under Win2K. The software that talks to the handheld runs just fine under Win2K, as long as it's talking over an ordinary serial port. Well, as far as Win2K knows, it is; Linux handles the translation to IRCOMM.
Linux + VMWare running windows also makes a great USB debugging/reverse engineering tool. Just hack the Linux USB drivers to log all of the messages and then install the windows drivers in a VMWare session and go to town.
There's all kinds of whacked out stuff you can do with VMWare :-)
Transgaming.. (Score:1)
considering the price of VMware and Windows (Score:1)
why don't you just buy an used, two or three
years old PC with W98 ? From my experience
it's more than enough to play Civ3, and
is less expensive than a VMware + Windows legal
licence.
I am a (legal) VMWare user myself for several
reasons : ease to cut and paste between
Linux and Windows applications, and safety
in running Windows 16 bits apps in a safe multitasking, multiuser environment : one
per virtual machine, no risk of mutual contamination, exactly what VMs were made for
on the first place on mainframes, not
to mention the seconds only it takes to
deploy a working, locally configured windows
environment for temporary users.
To get the best of both worlds (including gaming)
I find it easier nowadays to run Cygwin
under W2K pro, which still hasn't given me
the slightest problem.