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Digital Cameras and Smartmedia? 49

Posted by Cliff from the chips-with-beanies dept.
CuCullin asks: "In the never ending search for a quality digital camera that uses Smartmedia, all I can come up with is the Fuji Finepix 6900. The basics I'm looking for is Smartmedia, 3+ megapixels, and the ability to change lenses (I'm going for wide angle). Has anyone else been on a similar search?"
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Digital Cameras and Smartmedia? More

Digital Cameras and Smartmedia?

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  • I wrote up a bug [slashdot.org] that I found with the device. I haven't received a response from Fuji yet (yes, I sent an email to Fuji directly and didn't just expect that someone would read my journal).

  • Well. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday June 20, 2002 @05:33AM (#3734883)
    Olympus digital cameras all use smartmedia. So try there.

  • Why use Smartmedia? (Score:5, Informative)

    by chrestomanci ( 558400 ) <{david} {at} {chrestomanci.org}> on Thursday June 20, 2002 @05:53AM (#3734919)
    Why do you want to use Smartmedia cards?

    In my experience, it is the most fragile of the four common media card formats, and nor is it the cheapest.

    I have worked with various types of media card in PDAs & similar small devices, and I have often seen broken Smartmedia cards. The problem appears to be that because they are so thin, they have no structural rigidity, so slight bending can break the electrical traces, and render the card useless.

    Also unlike CF, they don't have any internal logic. This means they don't do wear levelling, so your memory card will have a shorter life. Also they don't talk IDE or USB.

    I would personally recommend CF, because it is the cheapest, most robust, available in the largest capacities, and you can get Hard drives in that size, or put them in PDAs.

    However, I Don't think you should be choosing the card format first, you should choose the camera first, and buy whatever media format it takes.

    Of course, if you already have a large investment in Smartmedia cards, my arguments above may not apply, But remember that digital cameras are expensive, and media prices are falling all the time. It would be foolish to buy the wrong camera, just so you can keep using your Smartmedia cards that could be replaced for $20.

    I hope this is useful.
    • Really not much else to say. Go ask Google.
    • Lots of good points, but I disagree with this statement:

      However, I Don't think you should be choosing the card format first, you should choose the camera first, and buy whatever media format it takes.

      IMHO, it makes sense to decide what kind of digital devices you will use, and then pick a format. A few years ago, when I was shopping for a digital camera, I didn't consider the memory format. I purchased a Cannon digicam that uses the compact flash for storage. Fortunately, CF met my needs very well, as I can use it in my Ipaq, my MP3 player, and with a $15 converter, I can use it with my laptop's PCMCIA slot.

      If I had purchased a camera that uses Smart Media, I would have a lot of options for MP3 players, but AFAIK, there are no PDAs or PCMCIA converters for the format.

      At this point I've collected approximately eight CG cards with varying capacities that I can use with all of my devices, which ended up being a good investment.

      However, if I were in the market for a new camera, I would most likely purchase devices that use the Secure Digital/Multi Media card format for expansion. They're very small (although they're probably subject to the same structural rigidity problems mentioned above), they come in large capactities, and unlike Sony's memory stick, they are a supported by a number of hardware vendors (Palm, Compaq, Fuji, Samsung...).
      • I do agree that CF has more versatility than SM. I have a Fuji 2400 that uses SM, and an MP3 that uses MMC. However, I do have a PCMCIA adapter for my Smart Media card so that I can quickly transfer photos to my laptop.
      • In the US, Ritz Camera can get them.

        FWIW, I think you're better off getting a media format that will play nicely with your other gear, but if it's a matter of getting the right camerea with the wrong media or the wrong camera with the right media, I'll take the wrong media every time.
      • there are no PDAs or PCMCIA converters for the format.

        Not only are there PCMCIA adapters, they actually work more nicely than CF adapters: with a SmartMedia PCMCIA adapter, you can just eject the SmartMedia card from the adapter. With a CF adapter, you have to eject the whole PCMCIA card and then pull out the CF card, resulting in more wear on the laptop. This is, in fact, one significant advantage for SmartMedia.

    • SmartMedia is a nice format for consumer applications, and the most popular in Japan. The cards are physically flexible, easy to clean, and have high storage density. CF is less robust because of its use of pins. The storage density of CF is less as well, and CF is too large and inflexible to carry, say, in your wallet.

      CF has its place, but so does SmartMedia. If there is one format to obsolete both, its SD/MMC, which combines most of the advantages of CF with the pinless design and storage density of SmartMedia.

      • The cards are physically flexible

        Sure, they're flexible...however, flexing them will in some cases render them useless despite their outward appearance of being "in one piece".

        CF is too large and inflexible to carry, say, in your wallet.

        CF, IMHO, is a much safer media to carry in your wallet. Due to the rigidity of CF cards, they won't flex, and since the pins (pin holes) are on the end of the card, there is no wear or static electricity being passed directly to the card. When I got my first digital camera, a cheap Olympus that used SmartMedia, I carried a SM card in my wallet for a month. I then tried to use it, and it didn't work. It looked fine, but the camera didn't like it. I am now a working professional photographer shooting 90% digital, and shoot with a Nikon D1x that uses only CF cards. I have never had a CF card fail, and frequently keep them in my pocket. I have even run one through the laundry, and it has emerged safe.

  • Although I could not find any information pertaining to the Fuji Finepix 6900 on their website [fujifilm.com] I have been doing research in this area ever since Slashdot ran an article [slashdot.org] talking about Foveon's [foveon.com] new CCD chip that is suppost to revolutionize the industry. Although Sigma's SD9 [sigmaphoto.com] hasn't hit the market yet, other manufacturers have been lowering the prices on their cameras, binging 5 and 6+ Megapixel cameras closer to reach.

    For example, Nikon's Coolpix 5000 [nikonusa.com] is a 5Megapixel camera that retails for $1K US, but can be found on the Internet for closer to $700. It has the ability to add and remove lenses, but it is nothing like the bayonet mounts that you may be used to with a standard 35MM SLR. Canon recently came out with the EOS D60 [powershot.com] digital camera with a 6.3Megapixel CCD chip , that retails for approximately twice as much as the Nikon. It is suppost to handle almost exactly like a 35MM SLR, including the ability to switch lenses, which is what a professional photographer would want to work with.

    But if you are like me, then you will be waiting with baited breath for the Sigma SD9 [sigmaphoto.com] and its revolutionary CCD chip. Even though the chip itself is only a 3Megapixel chip, the quality of the photographs taken are said to be comparible with 9+Megapixel cameras. Or you could stick with the tried and true 21+Megapixel analog film and emulsion camera.

    • I really love my Canon EOS D30 (predecessor to the D60), because it does in fact have precisely the look and feel of an ergonomically tested 35mm SLR. This probably has something to do with the fact that it is effectively a SLR with a digital back instead of film.

      The big advantage is for anyone who wants to focus and set exposure manually. These functions are smooth and intuitive on the D30, as opposed to the cheaper point and shoots and their fiddly buttons.

      I had a Nikon Coolpix 990 before the Canon, and the difference was like night and day to me. I never mastered the 990's features; I would study the manual, but the information would leave my brain as quickly as it entered. In dramatic contrast, a single reading of the manual told me everything I needed to know about the D30, and I've taken almost 5,000 pictures with it since I got it in January 2002, the bulk of them using a semi-automatic exposure mode and manual focus.

      Unfortunately, these cameras are still mind-bendingly expensive for all but affluent camera nuts like me. But if you like using manual controls and can afford this kind of camera, you'll consider it well worth the price as you use it.

      D

  • Is Smartmedia Smart? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Karora ( 214807 ) on Thursday June 20, 2002 @06:01AM (#3734931) Homepage

    I have a Fuji that uses SmartMedia but it's only 1.3 megapixels and I am in the process of looking for a 3.3 megapixel (or so) replacement.

    I'm not planning on using SmartMedia though - from my reading around I have come to the conclusion that CompactFlash is probably the 'best' solution.

    SmartMedia is a pretty raw interface to the memory (i.e. it ain't smart at all), and the camera has to support a particular size specifically, much like those older PCs would only take a 16M SIMM and not a 64M one. OTOH CompactFlash has more smarts on the device and requires correspondingly fewer of those little details to be built in. That's why all the really big ones (512M cards, 1G & 4G microdrives) are on CompactFlash.

    And of course you would only get something with a memory stick in it if you were addicted to Sony. I ain't.

    You might also see so-called 'MultiMedia' Cards appear to be similar to SmartMedia. Possibly they are crappier, since the website [mmca.org] suggests that you won't get 'em larger than 64MB (and I can't find any on sale larger than that), and they have been around since 1997.

  • If you want to know anything about digital cameras (Score:3, Informative)

    by Daniel Wood ( 531906 ) on Thursday June 20, 2002 @06:45AM (#3735010) Homepage Journal
    go to steves-digicams.com
    He does reviews of almost every new model digital camera of any value.
    His site will have a full review of the camera, including sample images and video.
    He even breaks down things so someone(like me) with no photography experience can understand things.
  • Why would you choose a camera based on the memory media? That's the LEAST important feature.
    • Actually I picked my Canon Powershot S20 based largely on its ability to support CF type 2 devices. At the time it was one of only 3 cameras that supported type 2 for under $500. The fact that it also had the highest resolution of those 3 and had by far the best picture quality is what made it the standout contender. Since I have spent almost as much on media as I did on the camera I would say at least for me that choosing the media WAS important. IBM microdrives were what drove me to CF type2, and now that I've got a solid state 1GB CF card I think I made the right choice, none of the other formats come near the capacity of CF.
      • I still don't entirely understand. Format aside, you're going to be taking pictures with this thing. While you found a camera that used your desired format AND had good picture quality and resolution, are you saying you would SACRIFICE picture quality to stick with CF? It seems to me to be a strange bargain to strike.
        Also, why spend that much money on a CF card? The Powershot S20 is a 3megapixel camera. At 1GB, you can take 42 RAW MODE images (i.e. no compression, no nothing). And probably several hundred if the camera writes the images in JPG at a modest rate of compression. This is way beyond what you will ever see on a screen or ever be able to print.
        As a point of reference, I have a 5mp camera that on standard settings (5mp res, jpg format, 5% compression) holds 188 images on a 256mb card. I've never used half of the space in a single day.
        • This is way beyond what you will ever see on a screen or ever be able to print..... As a point of reference, I have a 5mp camera that on standard settings (5mp res, jpg format, 5% compression) holds 188 images on a 256mb card. I've never used half of the space in a single day.

          With superfine mode I can hold about 1200 pictures on my 1GB card. While this is a little more than I need too much is often just enough. I plan to take my camera with me on my 2 week vacation out west, I will not be taking my laptop and it will be nice to shoot everything I want without having to worry about space. For reference on a 1 month trip to europe I took almost 3k pictures with my traditional camera and would have likely taken more had it not been for the cost of development and prints. As far as the resolution being more than I need, it is actually not quite enough. I have some pictures from last year where although you can make out the bushes down in Bryce Canyon you can not see any detail due to lack of resolution and somewhat to jpg artifacting (wish I had RAW mode). As far as sacraficing image quality I think you do that with any of the other storage formats, because none offer near the capacity of CF, so for a given number of photos taken assuming that you fill the other cards somewhere along the line you have to trade number of pictures/quality settings. Oh yeah and on a cost per MB CF is about 25-50% cheaper than most other portable solutions.
        • I have a Canon EOS D30 and an IBM Microdrive. The D30 is an awesome camera, and the Microdrive means I don't have to worry about running out of space - I just shoot what I want. The Microdrive came from a rebate offer during the last months the D30 was on sale, before they replaced it with the D60. Based on the review of the D60 I read, I am better off with the D30 and MicroDrive.

          Before I got it, I had a 256mb card that stored about 200 images at high quality. Yesterday, I went on a photo shoot with two models, taking 215 pictures. Without the MicroDrive, I would have probably missed a few of those. With the Microdrive, you snap whenever you want, as many pictures as you wish.

          At least to me, it's very liberating.

          D
    • Because it has other device that uses it?

      I got my first camera with CF and have made sure any other device I get (MP3 player, PDA) can use the same media. It makes life much simpler.
  • The E Series (E-10/E-20) use both SM, and CF. I have an E-10 with a 1 gig Microdrive. It'll store over a thousand pics.

    Available are 2 telephotos (1.5 &3), a wide angle, and a Macro. All of the extra lenses are screw mount, ie. the screw onto the front of the included standard lens.

    The E-10 is awesome, and worth every penny.
    • I have seen enthusiastic reviews of the E10, but many mentioned that Olympus DOES NOT recommend the use of a microdrive in slot (but does for the E20). How did you get around it, or are they just steering us to the E20?
  • Taking another posters advice here is the review at Steves-digicams.com [steves-digicams.com] The only complaint I've heard about this camera is that the battery life was short. Well I've had mine for almost nine months and the Lithium Batteries that were supplied with the camera are still doing fine. Lots of controls, extra lenses and filters can be threaded on. I would recommend that you get a 64MB SmartCard with it and the cam on normal 640x480 res. you get almost 700 shots per card. It drops to something like 32 shots on the highes res which are hugh files that you do spy type zooming on in Photoshop :-)
  • I agree that one should choose the camera and then get the media type that follows.

    That said, my personal favorite in the digicam arena is Olympus, specifically their C-x000 series cameras (C-2000,C-3000, and I think now the C-4000)

    The 2000 series is 2.1 megapixels, the 3000 series is 3.3 megapixels and adds sound recording capability and a few other little things over the 2000 series. The 4000 series is in the 4-megapixel range I think.

    All of them support a tube that screws on around the lens and provides a 46mm (or is it 41mm) standard threaded mount that allows you to attach filters (not too necessary with a digital, except for maybe a polarizer) and add-on wide-angle/zoom lenses (I recommend Tiffen lenses - They're cheap and Tiffen is a well-known brand) Currently I have the tube with a step-up ring to 49mm, as I had quite a number of 49mm filters and attachments from the small lens on my old SLR film camera.
    • The one bad thing about the C-x000 series cameras is that they're a bit bulky. Not as big as an SLR, but not as small as your average point-and-shoot camera.

      I also have a Canon Digital Elph (PowerShot S100) - Light on features, but the portability is wonderful in some situations. Doesn't do external lenses, though, at least not easily.
  • You did not say what your price range is. This is an important bit of data.

    The Fuji Finepix 6900 does not allow you to changes the lens. It allows yo to add lenses on such as telephoto and wide angle lenses. This is true for many if not all digital cameras in the $500 - $1000 price range. Very high end cameras that cost thousands *do* allow you to actually change the lens like with a non-digital SLR.

    I recently did research and purchased an Olympus 3040.

    What I was looking for was the camera with the highest quality images for under $500 with the following features:

    - ability to add lenses
    - ISO of at least 400 for low light conditions
    - 1.8 f-stop for low light conditions
    - long battery life
    - the option for full manual control
    - USB interface
    - 3 or more megapixels

    The Olympus 3040 and the Nikon 995 took the highest quality pictures among all cameras with these features for under $500. I went to the camera store and tried out both. I preferred the single body design of the Olympus over the two part body design of the Nikon. I ordered the Olympus online for $450.

    Go to the digital camera area of cnet.com to read the reviews and see the results of the image quality lab tests. You will find the that the Fuji Finepix 6900 had relatively low image quality.

    Oh yeah, the Olympus comes with two non-rechargable lithium ion batteries good for up to 1000 shots, and it also accepts four AA batteries. You should buy rechargable 1800 MAh Nickel Metal Hydride batteries. Those are the highest capacity.
    • - The Olympus 3040 does use Smart Media.

      - The main difference between the 3030 and the 3040 is the "Super Bright" lens referring to the 1.8 f-stop which lets more light in.

      - It also comes with a wireless remote control.
  • http://www.steves-digicams.com/ has lots and lots of reviews. You should have no problems finding what you need.

    Example: Olympus E10 [steves-digicams.com] supports BOTH SmartMedia and CompactFlashII (for those 1GiB microdrives), has removable lenses and is 4Mpix, for USD$1000.

    PS: Like many have said: SM sucks, go CF!

  • Another good digicam review site is Digital Photography Review at dpreview.com [dpreview.com]. If you are definitely sticking with Smartmedia, then they have a good features search [dpreview.com] that will let you find cameras by desired features, including storage type.
  • It uses compact flash instead of smart media. I consider this an advantage. You might not. I use the CF in my NexII mp3 plyaer as well.

    Other than that it meets your specs. I have a wide angle lense for it (as well as a telephoto) and it is a 4 mega pixel camera. I am impressed by the image quality. I just wish that it took longer/higher resolution moives. Oh well. My geek friends have been so impressed with it that two of them went out and bought the same camera. The only disadvantage is that it isn't exactly small. If you want something to slide into your shirt pocket look elsewhere.

  • Smart Media sucks.

    I lost all my fishing pictures on a day when I was fishing without a license, and received a $190 fine. I took it in stride, taking a picture of the cop, my buddy and I with our tickets, etc..

    Also lost pictures of this hot ass Peruvian girl I met in San Jose smashed out of her gourd.

    While I was in vietnam, I didn't even bother taking any pictures because I figured they wouldn't survive the trip back to my desktop. I was able to take one movie clip of a good friend in Korea, but for someone who loves pictures of friends I may never see again, I will once again have to slam Smart.

    Stick with CF.
  • The successor to the 6900: the FinePix S602Z. Brand new, it rocks. It has SmartMedia AND Compact Flash slots. You can use them both at the same time.

    HTH,
    -marius
  • My favorite camera review site is www.megapixel.net [megapixel.net]. They give a good practical overview without the long winded nebbishy blathering of the other camera sites.

    Frankly, the kind of memory should be the last thing you consider. Memory prices have really come down, and even the proprietary stuff like Sony Memory Sticks are cheap these days.

    But if you must, Olympus cameras all use Smartmedia. They can also be mounted just like any USB drive, so they don't need any special software. That way you can load your images into any computer with USB.

    FWIW, the new Olympus 3020 would probably meet your needs really well.
    • Sorry, I missed the part about interchangeable lenses. In that case, your choices are more limited. Basically, there are three ways to go with this.

      First, get a camera with a wide angle zoom. These are very few and far between. The only ones I can think of right now are the new Nikon 5000, and a Minolta model I can't remember. There's also the older Kodak DC4800, which is on sale right now at Ritz for $300. A great deal, but older cameras tend to have noisier images and slower overall operation. All these cameras will give you a lens equivalent to a 28mm for 35mm systems.

      The second choice is a good zoom camera with a wide angle add-on lens. The better ones work pretty well, usually with a .5-.8 magnification factor. So you could get a pretty wide angle for your G2 or Olympus Camedia. Most of these are off-brand cheapies, so no guarantees on optical quality, but I'm sure the Canon or Olympus branded ones are OK.

      Finally, there are the digital SLRs. These are expensive, and so are the lenses. All are excellent, though. The problem is that they usually have a 1.6x magnification factor because of their small sensors, so you'd need one of those super expensive superwides (14mm or 17mm) to get a good wide angle effect. The bodies themselves are around 2 grand, though you can probably get a year old D30 for a little over half that. The downside of an interchangeable lens SLR is that it's difficult to keep the sensor dust-free, and this shows up on your images. The all in one zoom cameras don't have this problem.

      RAther than fret over memory card types or interchangeable lenses, figure out what your photographic objective is, and buy the best tool for the job.
  • I had pretty much exactly the same criteria as you did when choosing a camera, except I wasn't so bothered about the media type: basically, I was after something as SLR-like as possible with changeable lenses and manual control over everything without spending thousands and thousands. The main two contenders seemed to be the Fuji 6900 and the Canon PowerShot G2, both of which were highly recommended in group tests and reviews, but after playing with both of them in a camera shop I decided that the Canon just didn't feel right for me - no doubt it's a great camera, but I much preferred the Fuji's SLR-like look and feel over the Canon's. The only trouble with the Fuji was that it ONLY took SmartMedia; however, just as I was about to buy it Fuji released the new S602 Zoom, which is basically the same but with dual slots for both CompactFlash and SmartMedia, so it'll take a Microdrive as well, a slightly better sensor and AA batteries instead of a proprietary, expensive one. I jumped at it and for my purposes it's been ideal. If you liked the 6900, its replacement is definitely the camera for you.

    If you're interested, there are a few reviews here [steves-digicams.com], here [dcresource.com] and here [imaging-resource.com] which influenced my decision.

    I love my 602 and certainly wouldn't have gone for anything else - if you've got any questions feel free to give me a shout.

  • I have a Toshiba PDR-M70, 3.37MP F2, 3X optical that can take its own wide angle lense, filters, and telephoto lense. They have newer.
    http://www.toshiba.com/taisisd/isd_svc/svc dsc/inde x.htm

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