Telemarketers and Cell Phones? 569
jjshoe asks: "I have received one bumbling voice mail from a woman who seemed very confused as to why I wasn't there, like her auto dialer transfered her call to my cellphone in time for my voice mail, one missed call, and one in which I actually talked to the woman. My concern is that this all costs me minutes, which of course equals money. What laws are out there for me? What bills are out there waiting to head their way towards becoming laws? What can I do to be compensated for time? After I screamed at the tele-marketer lady she said she would mark me as a wrong number, but I still don't believe this is enough." Considering most tele-marketers use auto-dialers, would it be so hard to grab the definitive list of area-code/extensions that are exclusively used for cellular phones and just apply that to their dial-out lists?
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette's website was the only site I could find that had any information on cellphones and solicitation.
Note the first question from 'JOHN PUHATCH':
And the answer basically amounts to, although we do have some protections, we can still be screwed:Q: Regarding the sole use of wireless phones as an alternative to a land line connection, as I have done for nearly two years: You stated that tele-marketers do not call wireless phones. If only that were the case. Tele-marketing agencies have regularly contacted me on my cell phone concerning everything from vacation homes to long-distance service. My assumption is that these agencies secure my cell phone number by buying information from the plethora of forms and applications that require home telephone numbers but leave no place for a cell phone.
Does anyone have any advice on things I can do to get these tele-marketers to stop calling on my cellphone?"'A: [...]In short, John, you lost your chance at a telemarketing-free life when you filled out those forms with your phone number. May others learn from your mistake.'
Most land-based phone companies allow anonymous-call blocks these days. Are there cellular phone companies doing anything similar?
telemarketers are good (Score:4, Funny)
Don't answer (Score:4, Interesting)
These days, I just don't answer blocked ID's, and my voicemail says so. You need a valid caller ID to call me. Yes, it's pathetic and sub-optimal, but it's the system our lawmakers have left us with. Pay to be harassed, or become unavailable.
Of course, I always buy the Viagra, so it's not that bad a deal.
Re:Don't answer (Score:3, Insightful)
I did this. They didn't hang up. But I did find out it was FirstUSA who gave out my number. After telling them I wished to be put on their no call list, they told me it would be three months before that would take effect. I told them this was unacceptable.
I also learned that these no call lists are only valid for one year at which time they can opt me right back in. Nine months of no calls by that *one* company? It was a coincidence that I was over my airtime minutes that month and paid 25 cents a minute for that nonsense. No thanks.
I promptly cancelled my credit card and the calls still came rolling in. It was satisfying to tell them why I was cancelling my card. That didn't stop the calls either. My final solution was to change my phone number. Other companies know this is my "home" phone number, yet I haven't been getting calls since.
Re:Don't answer (Score:5, Informative)
First, to answer the poster of this story. The TCPA forbids calling at the callee's expense. From this page [junkbusters.com]:
After telling them I wished to be put on their no call list, they told me it would be three months before that would take effect. I told them this was unacceptable.As well you should. I do not believe the TCPA allows them any time whatsoever. If they hang up and immediately call back, that's their one allowed error for the next twelve months. After that, you can charge them $500 per call.
I also learned that these no call lists are only valid for one year at which time they can opt me right back in
That's not what the TCPA says. This page [the-dma.org] at the Direct Marketing Assocation says that telemarketers must:
I think the people who call just always try to weasel out of the terms and get you to agree. I try to be verify specific:
Actually, browsing that Junkbusters site, they have a script [junkbusters.com] for you to keep by the telephone. Looks handy.
DNC List Rules. (Score:3, Informative)
You must prove they called you on purpose. The burden of proof is on you. It isn't like you get that second call and viola! you get a check. There is court time involved.
You must also ask to speak with a supervisor. If a non-supervisor talks to you claiming they are a super that is good enough for you - you have no way of knowing. But you have the right to request a supervisors help, and you you must in order to guarantee you will win your case.
While working for the local "Enquirer" newspaper here in "Cincinnati" [hint hint], I learned that when a sales rep takes your number down to be put on the DNC list they can legally just throw them away because sales reps are known to screw up the process. You won't win in court claiming "well John promised me..."
Also some other tips:
The caller won't give you their full name. They don't have to because they have the same right to privacy that you enjoy (remember, it's the company that insists on calling you - they just want to get paid).
The FTC has strict rules against cursing on the phone. You can yell at them and say what you want, but they have to show restraint or you can win up to $10,000 dollars, sometimes more.
Lastly: It's bad business to call cell phones - how can you even tell if they want your product
We had special lists which help pager and cell numbers- we ran it across our main lists to remove them. That is the only good thing we did there.
The best thing was when I got an auto-dial number which for some reason just had a local TV station's audio play 24/7. It was great to listen to TV while not doing anything.
Re:Don't answer (Score:2)
Re:Don't answer (Score:5, Informative)
I'd love to do that, but unfortunately my sister's cell phone shows up as a "blocked id" she's in PIttsburgh w/ Nokia and I'm Gaithersburg, Maryland w/Sprint PCS. Kinda annoying, because if it weren't for that, I'd wouldn't answer blocked id's.
My current solution is once that I sniff that's it's a sales call, which usually takes me all of 2 seconds after noticing that no one greets with "hello" right away, because most sales calls are made by a machine that does dialing, once it determines that it's a person on the line, it passes the call to a human who does the talking, which can take a bit. Anyway I simply respond with "This is a cell phone, please don't call this number again".
For the above reason of how sales calls are placed I know some phone companies can give you a spam trap. Which basically means everytime someone calls you, the phone company takes the calls, asks the caller to press 1 to talk to a person, and then passes the call on to you. I had a friend who lives in Key West that had this feature, I wish more phone companies did, or maybe they do, and I just don't know.
Re:Don't answer (Score:2)
I have a feeling that would be as effective as asking them where you can bill them for the use of your land line (which you also have to pay for). You're the one that gave them your phone number, you're the one that answered, and so the telemarketers feel content in placing the blame on your shoulders.
Re:Don't answer (Score:3, Interesting)
I would bill them for the minutes. If they refuse to identify themselves, report them immediately to your provider for making harassing calls, and demand to know who it was so that you can (1) bill them and (2) block them.
Another alternative: never answer your phone unless you recognize the number. Everyone else cal leave a message in your voicemail and get a call back.
I would like to see a PGP-type authentication system in phones, where you can elect to have people you know ring the phone and others not. You give a key or token to people you want to be able to call you, that uniquely identifies them to you. Their phone signals your phone with thay key.
I wouldn't mind seeing a law requiring caller-id on telemarketing calls, and accompanying hardware to automatically clock telemarketing calls. The phone companies can log EVERY call, so if there was a special code I could dial after getting an unwanted call -- *99 or something -- and the phone company logs it as such, that would be good, as well. I'd like to get a list of companies flagged on my bill each month.
Er, what? (Score:2)
If I got a call on my cell with some "company" offering services to me, you'd bet that I'd be demanding to speak to management and taking down their name and number.
I think with some phone providers you can actually report those calls to them too and get a possible refund, or get the business blocked.
Works for me.... (Score:2)
That should work. (No idea if it REALLY works or if its even correct, but if they're calling my spamming my cellphone, screw 'em.)
Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips (Score:5, Informative)
A magical phrase is, "Place me on your do not call list."
Re:Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips (Score:2, Funny)
Telemarketer: Hi, I'm Joe from Work Hard Industries, I'd like to talk to you about our Wang Big Supermower!
You: Sure Joe, I'd be happy to hear about your Wang Big Supermower if I can first talk to you about Jesus.
Unfortunately there are instances where that doesn't work. Some people apparently like to talk about Jesus... go figure.
Witty banter w/ telemarketers (Score:3, Funny)
Telemarketer: Hello, would you like to recieve the [local paper]?
Guy: I... can't read.
[pause]
Telemarketer: At all?
Colorado "opt out" no call list (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.coloradonocall.com/index.cfm
It's free and it was completely effectively in stopping unsolicited phone calls (except, as noted, political calls and charities).
Re:Junkbusters Telemarketing Tips (Score:3, Informative)
For anyone who doesn't know aboutt his, you can use the same url as in the followup (here [coloradonocall.com]), and re-enter your info and use the Verify button to check. Would be a good idea to make sure you're on the official list so you really stop getting the calls, and/or really have a case if you get calls again.
Redirecting home phones to mobiles. (Score:3, Insightful)
In regards to time, I'll usually just say goodbye...
But time is an issue. Just think about spam, commercials, etc... but I believe it would only cloud up things if we should start making new laws. What about using existing laws about harassment.
Rare occurrence. (Score:2, Informative)
$$$ Money money, money $$$ (Score:2)
Because of this, telemarketers could be held monetarily liable for the minutes (which equal $$$ in mobile phone plans) that you "lost" talking to them.
Different costs (Score:2)
Get a dedicated voicemail number (Score:2, Informative)
Could Be Worse (Score:3, Funny)
We to this day don't know who the callers are trying to get, but there sure are a lot of callers, and whoever is supposed to get the calls sure digs a lot of big holes.
Someone probably has a document in their customers hands with the wrong cellphone number on it. Makes for a good laugh every now and then.
-Pete
Re:Could Be Worse (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Could Be Worse (Score:2)
Re:Could Be Worse (Score:2)
Anyway, to the point, apparently my phone numbers have been held by at least the following:
Some stoners
A very old lady
Someone who signed up for ever spam offer out there.
I'm thinking the last two are probably one in the same.
The stoner's friends calls are the most annoying. I pick up, say hi, they say, "Hey bill I got the stuff", then realize they called the wrong number and freak out. This would be OK if these people figured it out the first time, but apparently, they are either very dense, or this guy had a lot of friends.
The other callers are very old people, I'm usually nice to them, but they take a while to get straightened out, and tend to ramble about who they were trying to reach.
Then there's the issue of the people that call my fax number.... over and over and over. You'd think the telemarketers and people calling the number would realize after several weeks that it was a fax machine, but no dice. Eventually I turned off the ringers on the extension and just gave up.
Re:Could Be Worse (Score:2)
The stoner's friends calls are the most annoying. I pick up, say hi, they say, "Hey bill I got the stuff", then realize they called the wrong number and freak out. This would be OK if these people figured it out the first time, but apparently, they are either very dense, or this guy had a lot of friends.
Ahem:
Or something like that.Re:Could Be Worse (Score:2)
I had the exact oposite problem. My old phone number used to be a fax machine somewhere. Not only did it get calls from a bunch of companies, it was also on onw of those fax spam lists. I got at least 6 a day, at every time of day.
Even worse... (Score:2)
I'm still waiting for the inevitable news story that some guy is driving in their car, answers their cell phone which turns out to be a telemarketer solicitation and ends up crashing into a supermodel's car because he wasn't paying attention to the road.
GMD
Maybe mafia? (Score:2)
A guy I work with gets calls a few times a week (usually at odd hours, so he gets voicemail.) The calls usually are along the lines of "Hey this is -firstname- from -companyname-, the state says it is ok to dig. Thanks, seeya." When he does answer, the people don't seem to want to talk and tell him who they were expecting to get.
Hmmm. Very fishy. Maybe it's mafia hitmen who are following the advice of those public safety tips and making sure to avoid buried powerlines before they go digging any graves!
GMD
Stuck in a snowbank (Score:2)
Re:Could Be Better (Score:2, Interesting)
In 1995, I was fresh out of college with a relatively useless liberal arts degree.
A friend of mine had a little web company, and he was giving me piecemeal work - html, content sorting, stuff like that - after finding out that I was pretty comfortable with computers and learned things quickly.
Still, I was poor. Canned-beans-three-meals-a-day poor.
We (a roomate and I) moved into a new apartment a few months later. Our new phone number apparently belonged to an IT consultant before it came into our possession. We used to get five or six calls a week from headhunters looking to hire him for various jobs.
One day, I started talking to one of the headhunters. Ten minutes later, I had an interview for a $25 an hour job, despite my lackluster qualifications and limited experience. A week later, I was hired.
In the seven years since then, I've learned a lot more, worked a lot of contracting gigs, and eventually started my own consulting company. We're not huge, just a few guys, but we make a decent living and do a vast majority of our work in bath robes.
See, telemarketers aren't always bad.
Kuroth
Cash in! (Score:5, Insightful)
A good resource for this kind of thing is Junkbusters [junkbusters.org]
Re:Cash in! (Score:2)
I'd expect the average telemarketer is a little less savvy about the subtle nuances of the TCPA and might be a decent target, especially in the case of cell phone spam.
The phone system is broken (Score:2)
Best telemarketing call (Score:5, Funny)
Telemarketer:Hello sir, I'm calling from [some bank name]. I'm offering credit cards at special low rate.
Me:Yeah, what cards are you offering?
Telemarketer:We offer AmEx, Visa, Mastercard, and Diners Club.
Me: Cool, put me down for all 4!
Telemarketer: Pause... Umm, we only give you the one with the best rate.
Me:Oh, Ok, put me down for all 4.
Telemarketer:Pause. Ok, sir, I just need you to answer a few questions... Is your household income over $1000.00 per month?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer:Ok, um household is EVERYONE in the home. Is it less that $1000.00?
Me: Yep, we make around $750.00 per month.
Telemarketer: Is this Mr. Mike Douglas?
Me: Nope.
Telemarketer: Who is this?
Me: Who is this?
Telemarketer: My name is Mike Pringle.
Me: What are you selling?
Telemarketer: I'm offering credit cards. Who is this?
Me: This is Mike Pringles. I'm Offering you a low low rate credit card, would you be intrested?
Telemarketer hangs up.
Solid Gold!
Re:Best telemarketing call (Score:2, Funny)
If its a chick I say "What color panties are you wearing?". If they don't hang up they'll either keep talking, or make a smart ass comment. Thats when I bust out with "It doesn't matter, I strangle 'em with whatver color they have on anyway."
That does the trick, normally.
Adventures in Telemarketing (Score:3, Funny)
Me: (after some looking to see where the ringing was coming from, opening the little door, and picking up) Um... Hello?
Telemarketer: Good afternoon. This is the Seattle Times we have a very special...
Me: Do you realize you've reached an elevator?
Telemarketer: (puzzled pause) Uh...Sir, let me check if we have your correct address...
Me: It's the 17th floor.. no wait.. the 18th.. no, wait.. now it's the 19th...
(And so on)
Apparently some office building are rigged so that even the elevator extensions have direct-dial...
Two words: caller pays (Score:3, Insightful)
-_Quinn
thats nothing... (Score:4, Insightful)
att is doing this (Score:2)
How does a telemarketer know it's a cell phone? (Score:2)
Re:How does a telemarketer know it's a cell phone? (Score:2)
ie:
NPA-EEE-XXXX
where EEE is the exchange and the XXXX is the local addressing within the exchange.
Normally exchanges are only cell or only land line, not mixed.
Re:How does a telemarketer know it's a cell phone? (Score:2)
Not that it couldn't be changed and maybe some do look at the exchange- but I doubt it.
.
hard to get a good phone exclude list (Score:2, Insightful)
That's not so easy as a lot of people forward their home phone to their cell phones. I do always take in telling the telemarketer who thought they were calling home that they have called me on my cell phone and that it's costing me money to talk to them. Some guy actually told me to send him a bill.
It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch up (Score:5, Informative)
Introducing those changes should help you.
Re:It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch (Score:2)
Re:It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch (Score:2)
You're right. Despite the seeming ubiquity of cellphones in the US, they've achieved nowhere near the penetration they have in the UK. This is probably one of the reasons why.
Re:It's a solved problem - USA just needs to catch (Score:3, Funny)
Ah, so that's why we're putting new cover sheets on our TPS reports [imdb.com]!
Re:In France too! (Score:2)
It's got nothing to do with being liberal!
In the US cell phones have local numbers - so if my friend down the road calls me on my cell phone he doesn't get charged but I do. In the UK (and France I'll bet) - my friend would get charged a premium fee to call my cell phone from his landline.
I personally like the US system. One reason is that mother (in the UK) can call me on cell phone and it doesn't cost her any more than calling a land line. Hence I can get rid of my land line all together.
The deals on cell phones here are much better in terms of the number of minutes you get included in a cell phone. I don't know anyone who actually pays a per minute charge for their calls - everyone just gets the minute plan that suits them and pretty much always finish the month under their limit. It works out much cheaper that way.
I'd be willing to bet that the average UK cell phone user has a higher bill than the average US cell phone user.
Re:Sounds like a problem waiting to happen (Score:3, Informative)
Yes we do, but I don't ever use land lines. can't remember the last time I did, almost everyone has got a cellphone. the local university here even hands out cellphones to all students, no monthly charge and 100 minutes free calls per month.
I myself pay 9 euro per month, including 40 minutes free calls, and I never ever exceeded those 40 minutes. for me , a cellphone is cheaper then a land line (which cost more per month, excluding calls).
so yes, land lines are charged per minute (per second actually) , do I care ? no!
Re:Sounds like a problem waiting to happen (Score:3, Informative)
And what happens when you run out of 07 numbers? Don't tell me "it'll never happen".
They get longer. UK numbers have grown a couple of digits in the last few years, when they run out of numberspace I'm sure they'll do the same thing again.
Same principle applies to things charged at different rates to normal - special rates are put on 08 (like 0800 - free, 0845 - local rate whereever you're calling from and 0870 - national rate). Premium rate is all dumped on 09 - the £1 a minute "advice" lines and the like.
A lot of upheaval, but it makes sense. It was getting silly 5 or 6 years ago with different blocks of numbers being allocated for mobiles and premium rate services seemingly at random and without any way of knowing the cost beforehand if it wasn't stated.
Don't you have that "crazy" per-minute charge for local calls on your land lines? We don't here. Anyway, there's so many minutes included with my calling plan that I've never paid an extra charge.
Not for a while now. The most basic package has a low cost of line rental with all calls paid for by the minute, but there are lots of other options. Pay about £1.50/month more and you get 4 hours of calls included. Pay about £5/month more and you don't pay for local calls. Pay £8.50 a month more and you don't pay for local or national. To avoid dialup ISP charges, you can pay another £5 or so per month.
All pretty flexible. My ISDN package comes with £14 worth of calls a month - I rarely go over that. BT suck on their pricing and availability of broadband, but we're not quite stuck in the dark ages :)
Call me, please! (Score:2, Interesting)
Yes, I have a lot of time on my hands.
Why on earth do Americans pay to receive phone calls?
It IS illegal under the TCPA (for most plans) (Score:5, Informative)
I got rid of my land line 3 years ago in favor of a cell phone and haven't had a single telemarketing call since then. I'm pretty surprised that you have; they're liable for a $500 fine for each such call placed.
Sumner
Does this apply to per-minute ISDN? (Score:2)
Re:Does this apply to per-minute ISDN? (Score:2)
Talk to a lawyer (perhaps after looking up that section of the U.S. Code [cornell.edu] to see if you think it's worth it).
Oh, and bookmark that link. Keep it around. It's the law of the land, worth knowing about. You can't just read it in a vacuum (parts of it aren't at all enforceable because of Court rulings [cornell.edu], executive orders [archives.gov], the Constitution [archives.gov], or for other legal reasons), but it's worth knowing about if you live in the U.S.
Sumner
Call center (Score:2)
The outgoing call system did have a few false positives (marking a number as cellular when it was not) but I never did see a false negative.
The UK is different (Score:4, Informative)
more than you ever wanted to know about telemktg (Score:2, Insightful)
I'm not connected with this site in any way, but I've used info from there to rid myself of 90% of telemarketing calls. And I've had some fun with telemorons in the process.
Not entirely true about dial-out lists (Score:2)
NY has so many phone customers, they had to start using 917 for landlines, which used to be only used for cell phones. Since then, I've gotten a few spam calls.
Has anyone tried TeleZapper? (Score:2)
Re:Has anyone tried TeleZapper? (Score:4, Informative)
The TeleZapper is a neat idea- I wish I would have thought of it. I would think it is helpful in limiting telemarketers but probably not a 100% solution. There are a couple reasons.
The first is that when the TeleZapper sends its little chunk of a SIT tone to the dialer it means that that dialer will mark your number as out of service. That dialer will most likely not call you again during that day. (This may not be true though depending on how the dialer is set up.) Whether or not you get updated in that company database depends on whether or not that company even has a database. And when do they update the dialer's results.
I do jobs for clients where there is never any storage of bad results from my dialer. We handle way too much volume to bother with it.
If they do keep a database to cull out bad results then this company may stop calling you altogether. But if you are on other lists w/other companies then they may keep calling. You should get the picture.
The second main reason it cannot stop all telemarketers is that it does not work on all dialers. (specifically a Mosaix dialer like the one that I run) The telezapper does not send out the whole SIT tone, just the first part. For some dialers this is enough. (Davox is one I've been told) But our dialer will just hang in there since the whole tone doesn't come across the line. (and remember it doesn't send the tone until you or your answering machine pick up the line.-- your phone still rings- you pick it up and hear the tone and if it is effective noone is there. It's just you going hello? hello?)
It's cheap and I've considered buying one. I think any reduction in telemarketing calls is pretty good. So I'm not trying to slam the product but the ads are somewhat optimistic in what the product can do (can't blame 'em there)
.
Re:Has anyone tried TeleZapper? (Score:3, Informative)
To see if the telezapper might work, I recorded the SIT tone onto my answering machine before my message and lowered the ring count to 2 rings for a month. Screened all calls. Now I recieve maybe one a week. I don't think I want that tone every single time I answer the phone, so I just keep in on my answering machine and bumped the ring count back to 4.
I highly recommend doing this if they are driving you nuts. Here's a
On who's dime? (Score:2)
What, is local telephone service now free? Somebody better tell the baby Bells, then.
Cell phones or land lines. The only difference is how you're billed.
Re:On who's dime? (Score:2)
If your home phone is a cell phone, you pay extra ( or it costs minutes) for every call the phone is a part of, incoming or outgoing.
Re:On who's dime? (Score:2)
But while they are calling you, you can not use the product that you pay for, for the intended purpose that you bought it for. Assuming you didn't get a landline for the single purpose of receiving spam calls... :) So it does cost you, even if it's difficult to put a price tag on it.
Re:On who's dime? (Score:2)
uh someone is paying for the elecricity it takes and the circuit switching equipment etc.
And that someone is you.
But my bill for this month doesn't depend on how much i talk on the phone.
"Put me on your do not call list." (Score:5, Informative)
Re:"Put me on your do not call list." (Score:5, Insightful)
Although this has cut down on some of my phone spam volume, folks should be aware that:
1) It only has meaning for the telemarketing company that called you. When XYZ Phonespammers of Texas puts you on their DNC list, they can rename themselves to ABC Phonespammers of Texas.
2) It only has meaning for a year, then they can call you again.
Those of you lucky enough to have statewide do-not-call lists are in a somewhat better position, because all your state's telespammers are required to use it. Problem is...
3) ...your entry on the Colorado no-call list doesn't protect you from XYZ Telemarketing of Colorado opening up a call center and operating as XYZ Telemarketing of Nevada.
The only solution is a nationwide do-not-call list.
I know this solution will work because...
the DMA is scared shitless of it [dmnews.com].
Am I just being paranoid? No - my experiences with telemarketers evading the current TCPA regs mirror those of Eileen Harrington - FTC's point-person on the do-not-call issue.
Finally, in what were probably the first honest words to come out of a telemarketer's mouth in all of recorded history, we have this gem:
Re:"Put me on your do not call list." (Score:5, Funny)
"All right," she said, "I just need your name."
"You don't need my name. You just need to put the phone number you just called on your do not call list, as required by law."
"I can't put you on the do not call list unless you give me your name, address, phone number, email address and answer a few questions about why you don't want to save money with us."
So I told her my name was John, I live at 123 Main Street, and my email address is abuse@yahoo.com. At that point she hung up on me. Someone else called from AT&T the next day, looking to sell long distance. I told him about the ordeal I went through the day before, and he promptly hung up.
Ever since then I just put them on hold whenever they call. "Yeah, I'm really thinking about switching my long distance, because I make so many calls and my bill is so huge. Can you hold on for a minute?" Five minutes later: "Hi, you still there? So what was it you said you were offering? Uh huh. Oh, hold on a sec, it's my call waiting." And then I leave them on hold for about an hour before hanging up.
My roommate prefers to waste his time driving them crazy. He'll wait for his turn to speak, pick some abstract word, like "Cheese" and stick with it.
"So how are you doing today, sir?"
"Cheese."
"I'm sorry, I didn't catch that."
"Cheese."
"Um... OK. I'm calling from AT&T and we thought you might like to take advantage of the opportunity to save some money on your long distance bill."
"Cheese."
Re:"Put me on your do not call list." (Score:3, Funny)
When I was a young, pimply faced pre-adult (as opposed to now, when I'm a middle aged pimply faced childish-adult,) the only jobs I could get were with telephone soliciting companies.
Now this was in the days before (a) do-not-call lists, (b) war-dialers and (c) calling-line ID. We worked from pages torn from the local phone book, holding our heavy 2500 set [csus.edu] phones uncomfortably to our ears as we vainly tried to sell whatever warez we were pushing for minimum wage.
People didn't scream at us that much in those days, but you always got a few who did. When it happened, you made a "stress relief" call, to one of your carefully collected list of numbers of people who were either (a) always drunk, or (b) never home and had answering machines.
My favourite was leaving messages that their moose was sick and they'd better get down to the vet's office soon before it died. The next day, you'd leave another message, saying the moose was dead and "confirming" their name & address to send the large bill for the funeral to... and leaving as a phone number that of a pizza store.
Ah, fourteen...
Re:"Put me on your do not call list." (Score:3, Funny)
"I'm sorry, I don't have a phone."
(pause, pause, pause) "Then how am I talking to you?"
"I'm... not really sure."
(pause, pause, pause) "Thank you." {click}
Aren't Auto-dialers Illegal? (Score:2)
Otherwise, why the heck do I pay extra each month for an unlisted number?
Re:Aren't Auto-dialers Illegal? (Score:2)
They are actually really neat pieces of equipment with an unusually high geek factor if you ask me.
Anyways what they do is allow call centers to increase productivity enourmously. Say you've got 10 agents sitting in their little cubes and you want them to call 10,000 phone numbers. If they sat their punching buttons on phones all day you'd never get it done.
So you load those 10,000 numbers into a dialer. It can dial the numbers flawlessly and quickly. Then - to make it even quicker, you set parameters for the dialer to pass the call to an agent. Say- a human voice picking up (dialers can tell the difference between people and answering machines). Now my agents never even see the bad numbers, people not home etc.
The dialer knows that there will be calls like this so for the 10 people it is making 20 or 30 calls at a time. A dialer coordinator monitors the situation and can slow down or speed up the dialer accordingly.
Any telemarketing company w/any amount of technology is using a dialer. It is really useful in other businesses where you make lots of calls as well - say collections.
And they do lots more but that's the quick and dirty.
.
Re:Aren't Auto-dialers Illegal? (Score:2)
But clearly the coordinators, if they do exist, don't ever slow down the dialers enough. Everybody I know gets those answer-and-wait calls all the time. They're a majority of telemarketing calls at my home; in other words, when we answer the phone it is more common to get dead air than a live telemarketer.
So not only do we get the nuisance of telemarketing, more than half the time the telemarketer's time is deemed more valuable than ours. I am disgusted by that attitude on the part of the telemarketing industry.
Re:Aren't Auto-dialers Illegal? (Score:2)
On our dialer we can see real time how many callers are going into the queue and how many calls are abandoned while in queue. We try to keep that number as low as possible to keep our call penetration up.
In another post above regarding Telezapper there is a good link to a site where you can download the sit tone for a disconnected number. The guy who has the link put it on his answering machine and it looks like it was pretty effective in cutting down on telemarketing calls.
So simple- so obvious and I never thought of it before. I'm going to set up my answering machine that way tonight.
.
Try this (Score:2)
Just say No... or lie :) (Score:2, Funny)
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: Oh, uh, we just need it to, uh...
I tell Bob: No.
I keep my phone and they don't get any info on me. I am probally there to get a item, not give them anything.
Question to whoever: Why do I have to give you my number?
Salesperson Bob's Answer: We have to have it for corporate.
I tell Bob: No
Bob Replies: I need the phone number or I can't complete your order.
I tell Bob: Let me speak to a manager.
I again keep my phone number giving them nothing. If I have to give a number or I can not purchase the item, then I go somewhere else. Yet again, I am there for an item not to pander to their database whims.
If you give them your phone, then you might as well give them your address. After all, they are probally going to ask for that too. So now you have spam on two fronts (phone and smail).
Sometimes they ask for my email. So...
Salesperson Bob: I need your email address.
Answer: Sure thing. It is G... double E... T... B... double E... N... T... @hotmail.com
Somehow telling them double E just bypasses some section of the brain and they fail to realise I am telling them to get bent!
Pause (Score:2, Informative)
Why not lie? (Score:2)
Good for more than just Pr0n... (Score:2)
Louisiana Do Not Call Program (Score:2)
Like they say, we've got the best politicians money can buy here
I can't report on how well it works as I've been on the list for 3 days now. See http://host.ntg.com/donotcall/ [ntg.com] for details. Here's a sample from the site:
A UK perspective (Score:2, Interesting)
Over on this side of the big pond, the cost of calling mobile telephones is still orders of magnitude higher than making national or local calls, and in some instances comparable (or even more expensive, if you use some of the specialist long-distance carriers) to making international calls. Example: Calls to mobiles are charged at anywhere from 18.90 to 26.05 pence per minute including tax during the daytime. Compare this to international rate calls to the USA at 14.00 and Australia at 22.00 pence per minute. (Source: BT [bt.com] price list). The cost alone is usually sufficient to put people of making calls to mobiles. SMS (text messaging) spam is become more popular though.
The UK Direct Marketing Association, which is the self regulatory body for direct marketeers in the UK run a scheme called the Telephone Preference Service [tpsonline.org.uk] or 'TPS'. From personal experience, I have found this scheme to be particularly effective against junk callers.
The same bunch also run a postal-mail and fax opt-out service, which is apparently also fairly successful, and an Email service, which I'm somewhat sceptical about (not giving my addressesout anyway, I shouldn't be on their lists). (and most of my spam comes from the USA anyhow) Under the Telecommunications (Data Protection and Privacy Regulations) 1999 [hmso.gov.uk] it is an offence for any company engaged in direct marketing to call numbers listed on the TPS. Those who do can be 'shopped' straight away on the TPS site. One difference I noticed with the USA version of the TPS [dmaconsumers.org] is that in the USA, you can still be called by local traders, charities and religious groups, AND your number only registers for five years. In the UK, local traders, charities and religious groups are included in the act.
Call Intercept for cell phones? (Score:2)
Basically, if you get an unlisted or anonymous phone call, the caller has to say their name *before* the call goes through. It gets electronically recorded & then repeated back to whoever answers the phone. The answerer then has the option to accept the call or hang up. Why not something similar for cell phones? Mine already has Caller ID, this wouldn't be a stretch (and I would gladly pay extra for this feature).
The Python Way (Score:2, Funny)
"YOU TINY MINDED WIPER OF OTHER PEOPLES' BOTTOMS! NOW GO AWAY OR I SHALL TAUNT YOU A SECOND TIME."
Silence. Then this tiny little female voice with a wry slant said, "Next you're going to tell me you're already got one, right?" Made my day (and probably hers) and we ended up chatting. Too bad she lived 6 states away. ^_~
Re:Not sure about laws... (Score:2)
Here (Wisconsin, Fox Valley area) we have a definitive list of prefixes that are only available for cellphones. I'd always assumed that it was the same way for everyone (just so it could be policed in some way).
Area codes (Score:2, Informative)
Do not call list (Score:4, Informative)
I CALL AMERICAN CENTRICITY (Score:2, Flamebait)
Re:Do not call list (Score:3, Insightful)
Good luck finding out who they are. Good luck finding out the correct address so you can serve them. Good luck getting a judgement, and even if you do have a judgement, good luck collecting even a single dollar from them.
Note also that this process is rather arduous, requires several inconvenient trips through traffic to the bad part of town where the courthouse always is, and many hours on your own time performing research, looking up the law, etc. Skip tracers don't work for free, either.
Re:I did this for a living (Score:2)
Re:Damn cell companies... (Score:2)
Totally bizzare!
How is this illegal? (Score:2, Funny)
Again, several times a night. The phone rings. She picks it up. No-one on the other end.
How the HELL is this method of 'advertising' different from the actions of a depraved stalker?
MO no call (Score:2, Interesting)
Plus, Missouri prosecutes violators. Gotta love that.
However, as far as I know, the Missouri law does not cover cell phones. In fact, we tried to put our cell on the list, the no-call folks called back and said that since it was a cell, it couldn't be on the list. But - as other posters have pointed out - I believe that in my area cell phones are automatically off of call lists anyway. And in the case of my specific area, the *area* *code* may be the same as land lines, but the *exchange* (that second set of 3 numbers) is different for cells. Thus marking cell numbers and putting them out of bounds for telemarketers.
We've not recieved one solitary telemarketing call on our cell.
But as always, milage varies.
Re:Holy Whiny Consumers, Batman! (Score:2)
Re:Impediments to telemarketing reform (Score:2)
For example, I have an 11 character polish last name. Very hard for your average telemarketer to prounounce. So one time, somebody called and while they were trying to pronounce my name (hello mr........) I just short circuted their speech before they could get a word in, etc. A few days later, they didn't bother using my last name, just my first name.
I also tend to be obscene with them, if I'm in an evil mood.
And I have noticed that the telemarketing calls have gone way way way down.
Re:Impediments to telemarketing reform (Score:2)
Colored what? Pink? Purple? Or is it one of those color-by-number things? Is it like this one act I saw in Chicago, at Charybdis [charybdisarts.com], where a German guy smeared tempera paints all over the naked bodies of volunteers and then took photos? Man, that was something to see; the pictures were fantastic and everyone had a good time. Too bad that place got shut down by the Alderman.
Let me know, because I'm dying of curiosity.
Telemarketers are salespeople -- not like me (Score:2)
Although many telemarketers are colored, most of them are just like you and me. Please do not verbally abuse them - you won't hurt the industry, just somebody (not unlike myself) who is trying to make ends meet.
I'm not going to dignify that "colored" remark with a reply...
However, your insinuation that telemarketers are just good, honest folk trying to make a living is a bit bizarre. I worked briefly (very briefly -- I quit after two weeks) at a telemarketing firm selling pay channels (HBO, etc.). We got paid a reasonably hourly wage, given what we were doing. However, the real way to make money is through commissions. Telemarketers make money by selling people on their product. They are salespeople. I'm not claiming that they are filthy rich salespeople. But they are more like used car salesmen than they are like the average slashdot reader.
GMD
Take some responsibility (Score:2)
I am not endorsing verbal abuse, but if I receive an unsolicited phone call then my time is being stolen from me. I don't see why I need to be civil; even my declaration of my intent to hang up is just more of my time.
If someone else feels the need to verbally abuse the telemarketer I am not going to complain. If the telemarketer doesn't like it then they can find a job where they aren't stealing time from hundreds of people a day. If no one was willing to telemarket then this abhorent industry would wither and die.
Re:Impediments to telemarketing reform (Score:2, Funny)
"Telemarketers are people too. Although many telemarketers are colored,..."
fuck you negro, I *am* colored, but I aint no god damned telemarketer.
Re:Impediments to telemarketing reform (Score:2)
It wouldn't surprise me.
One of the most eye-opening experiences of my life was when I was working late one night, at a Gov't office, in a major Canadian city. I went to the washroom, and the paper-towel dispenser happened to be open. Printed on the inside of the dispenser was instructions on how to change the roll. In English, and what looked like Spanish or Portugese. Either way, it was whatever language all of the janitorial staff were speaking.