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Alternatives to MSN+Verizon Wireless? 55

Posted by Cliff from the why'd-they-have-to-go-messin'-with-a-good-thang? dept.
a.h.s. boy asks: "I took a little visit to my usually-neglected Verizon Wireless online account site today, and found myself greeted with the following message: 'Attention This site will not be available for use after October 2002. Please go to http://vzw.msn.com to set up a profile and start using our new VZW with MSN portal.' And now what does it take to login to my wireless phone site? That's right, .NET Passport account. I want one of those like I want a hole in my bedroom wall, however I really do want the convenience of getting my phone information online. I'm sure more and more sites are going to start requiring .NET passports for access, and even if I use bogus information for the Passport, it's still tied to my (quite non-bogus) cell phone records, isn't it? I already sent mail off to the Executive Office of Verizon Wireless to complain, but I can't imagine they're going to care what I think. What are others doing to work around the growing need for a Passport account?" For current customers of Verizon wireless, the question basically boils down to: "Should I stay or should I go?". For those opting for the latter, based on this latest twist, are there other cell-phone companies offering similar features to Verizon's service?
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Alternatives to MSN+Verizon Wireless? More

Alternatives to MSN+Verizon Wireless?

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  • I can only guess how much they paid Verizon to do this.
  • with .NET Passport?

    • Re:What's wrong (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      try making one with a non-IE browser, small problem, you can't.

      They like to block UAGENT.
    • [What's wrong] with .NET Passport?
      I'm sorry, I should have explained this further in the writeup, but I thought the last Passport fiasco [slashdot.org] would have still been in people's minds.

      Put simply, for an ID service that is expected to be used as an umbrella authentication for a lot of web services, Passport's security seems rather lax [slashdot.org]. Which is exactly what you do not want when it comes to privacy on the web.

      Verizon's switch to a system that hasn't exactly gained a reputation for being secure, for use by their wireless customers seems like a not-so-well-thought-out move to me. Especially considering that Verizon already had a system in place for their wireless customers.

      • Put simply, for an ID service that is expected to be used as an umbrella authentication for a lot of web services, Passport's security seems rather lax. Which is exactly what you do not want when it comes to privacy on the web.

        So don't use VZW for things that need to be secure. You shouldn't be anyway.

        Especially considering that Verizon already had a system in place for their wireless customers.

        They were using Infospace, who was charging them money. Most likely much more money than Microsoft.

    • It's part of the giant convergence of information about you.

      If you use .net Passport to log in to your phone account, it means your phone account is linked to the Passport, and so all sorts of interesting data mining could be possible between your phone calls, your passport account and your use of other Passport sites.

      Frankly, it feels more than a little creepy to me. They will, of course, SAY they don't do anything like this, but just the fact that it's technically possible makes my skin crawl.

      D

      • If you use .net Passport to log in to your phone account, it means your phone account is linked to the Passport, and so all sorts of interesting data mining could be possible between your phone calls, your passport account and your use of other Passport sites.

        Well, your phone account is only linked to Passport if Microsoft is committing outright fraud. Personally I trust Microsoft as much as Verizon, in that I doubt either would do this data mining, but if they did, it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

        Frankly, it feels more than a little creepy to me. They will, of course, SAY they don't do anything like this, but just the fact that it's technically possible makes my skin crawl.

        It's always been technically possible. .NET doesn't change any of that.

        If it ever happened the credibility that Microsoft lost would far outweigh any gains. It's simply not in Microsoft's best interests to gather this data when they come right out and say they aren't.

        Finally, SFW. I don't care if the whole world knows everything I do on VZW.

  • What kind of services does Verizon Online offer? I can't think of too many useful things to have tied in to your phone provider.

    Most seem to have online billpay and other services (I know AT&T does), what else does it do?

    • Sprint lets you check how many minutes you've used, which is important if you don't want to go over the allotted minutes and pay out the ass for it... I imagine Verizon does the same.

      I'd certainly recommend Sprint, but I think it's a losing battle - things like the Passport are going to be inevitable, IMO. People do like having one unified login, even if it's less secure.
  • In my experience, Verizon sucks anyway. If they start requiring a .NET Passport for my prepaid wireless service, that will defintely be the last straw.
  • There comes a time when one must make apparently hard decissions about things in life. Even if there does come a point when you can't find a reputable provider, then go with out. Use a pager maybe? If you really need it.

    You got by before you had a phone, and a year after it's gone you'll wonder why you were so worried.

  • While not the answer to the general question ("What do you do about avoiding signing up for Passport?"), but SprintPCS does offer similar services without the need for Passport (so far).

    I just logged on and checked my mounthly usage and the settings for my phone.

    SprintPCS [sprintpcs.com]

    I also have the wireless web for $5/month, allowing me to check my email by handpring Visor to my Samsung SCH-3500 with the use of a cable from Gomadic [gomadic.com].

    I get service in most metropolitan areas.

    Perhaps this would be a good SlashPoll:
    What cell provider do you use?
    SprintPCS, Verizon, etc.
    • Unfortunately, SprintPCS's web site is down a *lot*. I get ASP errors all the time when I try to use their web site to check my account. Other SprintPCS customers I know complain about this, too. I've recently switched from SprintPCS to Verizon. Verizon's coverage is *much* better, at least here in the Portland, OR area.
    • Sprint has jerked me around for the last time. I want to know when my contract expires so I can switch to T-Mobile (mmmmm SonyEriccson T68) and they charge me $3 just to talk to someone about my account, not to mention the minutes I use sitting on hold for their shitty hold service. Fuck them. Sorry. Not flaming or anything. I'm just venting. I've had it with them and this months bill from them will be my last.
      • *2 doesn't deduct minutes from your account, and they don't charge me a fee to talk to a representative. What plan do you have that you get screwed with a $3 fee? If they started that shit with me I'd be gone fast. When they tried to switch the start of nighttime minutes 9:00 PM I threatend to cancel, and I got to keep 8:00 as my start time. Similarly when they got rid of first incoming minutes being free... I've still got them. You probably don't even want to know how many minutes I've got for $35.99. It's like it never stopped being 1998 when they were actually cheap.

        You need to get in touch with the retention department and tell them why you are unhappy (and why you're going to cancel if they don't fix it). The retention department can basically offer you anything you can talk them into. They are not stuck offering the "plans" that the regular salesman have. They'll hook you up. Don't even bother trying to explain it to the first phone monkey that you get when you call, just ask for the retention department first thing.
    • 1) Inferior coverage. Sprint's non-roaming coverage is probably around 20-30% if you look at their map. Hell, they can't even cover all of New Jersey, the most densely populated state in the USA! Verizon is well over 50% of the country, probably closer to 75%+

      2) Inferior customer service. I've heard numerous complaints about "claire" - And now they want to charge you for customer service calls!

      3) No MO-SMS - You have to log into some sort of website to send an SMS.

      4) Distinction between data minutes and voice minutes. You *HAVE* to get Wireless Web unless you want to pay 39 cents/minute for data calls whether they're microbrowser or simply using your phone as a modem. With Verizon, you only need Mobile Web if you need microbrowser capability. If you have an integrated PDA/phone such as the Kyo 6035 or use your phone as a modem for a laptop or other PDA, Mobile Office is free and simply uses your voice minutes for data calls.
      • Distinction between data minutes and voice minutes. You *HAVE* to get Wireless Web unless you want to pay 39 cents/minute for data calls whether they're microbrowser or simply using your phone as a modem. With Verizon, you only need Mobile Web if you need microbrowser capability. If you have an integrated PDA/phone such as the Kyo 6035 or use your phone as a modem for a laptop or other PDA, Mobile Office is free and simply uses your voice minutes for data calls.

        AFAIK, Verizon is the only service provider to do this, and it's over CSD, not GSM/GPRS so you'll only get 14.4kbps max. But it's better than nothing, I suppose. See my comment above the clueless ATT salesman. I'm still looking for an acceptable data solution that doesn't cost a fortune. Suggestions, anyone?

    • I also have the wireless web for $5/month, allowing me to check my email by handpring Visor to my Samsung SCH-3500 with the use of a cable from Gomadic [gomadic.com].

      I can't seem to find anything on their website about $5/mo wireless web. What service do you get, exactly? Where do I find the information about it?

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Interesting)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday September 10, 2002 @12:49AM (#4225749)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • Actually, Verizon uses CDMA, not TDMA.

    • Re:ditch them (Score:2, Informative)

      by David Greene ( 463 )
      ATT in Ann Arbor, MI has some really good deals for students. I got a Nokia 8390 for $50 after rebate due to a student discount on the hardware (it's usually $150). It's not the top-of-the-line phone, but it will probably do what I need. They also have a nice 500 anytime + 3000 night/weekend minutes nationwide for $35/mo. limited time offer.

      Unfortunately, the ATT salesguy misled me about the data capabilities of the plan. He insisted that I could charge my voice minutes to any data (GPRS) accesses. Even when I mentioned that the ATT web site sells separate data packages he wouldn't budge. He said I could buy an "unlimited megabyte" package from $99 per month but otherwise I would just be charged voice minutes.

      I didn't believe him so I called ATT directly and sure enough, he was flat-out wrong. They don't even have an unlimited data plan. No CSD either.

      It seems that no wireless provider has a reasonable (cost-effective) data plan in place. I'm not going to pay $20/mo. for 5 measly megabytes of data transfer.

      Anyone have ideas on this one? Since my mobile is my primary voice line I'm running out of data options. Cable/DSL won't be in my area until I've already moved away.

    • Verizon, like Sprint, uses CDMA.

      GSM's underlying modulation scheme is TDMA, which means that it is no better in areas such as range/call handoff/noise immunity than TDMA. CDMA is generally considered to be a superior modulation scheme, which is why next-gen GSM will be CDMA.

      And don't forget that with the exception of AT&T (whom I've heard VERY mixed opinions of), all of the GSM/TDMA providers have miniscule coverage areas.

      The only two carriers that are really an option if you actually care about coverage quality and dropped calls are AT&T and Verizon, they're the only truly nationwide providers.

      The post here is honestly the FIRST time I've heard anything negative about VZW from someone who actually uses their service, and it's a blatantly false claime - Verizon doesn't require Passport *at all* to check online billing. I know this because I just checked my bill and didn't see a single mention of Passport.
    • It appears that most providers in Europe are now considering WCDMA which is superior to CDMA 2000.

      You know, I'm willing that 95% of Qualcomm's ASICs division would beg to differ with you on this one.

  • Huh! (Score:1)

    by burnsy ( 563104 )
    You can use ANY email address you prefer for your 'passport', so just use a different email address and a new passport at each passport required site and they will not be able to link the data.

    Is this really any different than a 'registration required' site?

    • Re:Huh! (Score:2, Informative)

      by innocent_white_lamb ( 151825 )
      Is this really any different than a 'registration required' site?

      Yes it is indeed, because as the person who asked the question pointed out, his cell phone records (name, address, and whatnot) are NOT imaginary. He could enter a fake email address if he wanted to, but that information would still be tied to his real name/address that his cell phone billing account is registered to.

      So "Mickey Mouse, 1 Lois Lane" won't do. It's cyber-world tied to real-world and you can't fake the real-world end in this situation.
  • 1. pay my bill. i can always just mail a check instead of using my credit card.
    2. create my bookmarks for WAP. one of my bookmarks goes to my own web server's start page, which i can change myself with going to the new verizon site or create the bookmarks on my phone.

    i think i can survive without msft's passport and a floppy disk drive.

    recently, i dropped sprint (they suck) for verizon (they don't suck as much) and signed a two-year deal w/ verizon so i can't really switch.
  • only because that's what I have. I don't use any of the MSN stuff that goes along with it. I do use some of the on-phone yahoo stuff however.
    Your best bet is to go with Sprint. Sprint is by far the best wireless provider in the country. If you really want whatever feature is provided by getting a passport then either get one, or leave Verizon.
    • Sprint is by far the best wireless provider in the country.
      Them's fightin' words. It very well may be the best provider for your needs, but others' needs might necessitate something else.

      I'm currently with Cingular, which allows me to use my minutes anywhere in the country where there's a TDMA signal without incurring any roaming charge whatsoever. Where I work, in the middle of New England Nowhere, the ONLY providers are Cellular One (it hasn't been bought out here yet) and US Cellular, both TDMA. Therefore, I had to drop Voicestream/TMobile, who had served me extremely well via GSM in Philadelphia and New Jersey.
  • Sure your cell info is linked to that passport account, but without additional data it's just noise without signal. They will know you check the cell phone info from this account, but do you use a computer for anything else? There is no social security number currently required, nor is there gonna be.

    They want to draw up a comprehensive picture of your lifestyle for 'Marketing Purposes', but if the info is scattered amongst a dozen non-connected databases and usernames they have nothing useful.

    Use one account for IM (personal), one for business (if your stupid), and another for hehmm 'FUN'. Passport is a phony ID scheme, anyone can create one and it means nothing. They will not be changing it anytime soon either, they can't.

  • I left Verizon. It has been said before and I shall say it again. Use your dollars to express your opinion. It is the only thing that big corps like Verizon, et al... respect. It is the only thing that gets their attention. I have Nextel now and love the 2-way radio feature. On top of it all, Nextel service is so far and above that of Verizon, it's almost humerous. :-)
  • T-Mobile (nee Voicestream) has a decent online presence, as does Sprint; it's looking like T-Mobile and Cingular are going to be merging, so coverage should get better (I've only had problems out in the boonies anyway), and you get to play with the same or similar phones to the rest of the world.
    • Y'know, I thought about going with VoiceStream/T-Mobile except I can't access their web site to check their plans. I think they have my IP blocked as I get connection refused messages yet can get through using an anonymizer. When I called (twice) to tell them about the problem they claimed there was no one I could talk to to fix it. Even when I asked what would happed were I a customer they indicated I'd be SOL.

      Sorry, but I won't go with a company that doesn't care about its customers. I'm telling everyone I know not to purchase service from them. T-Mobile, are you listening?

      • I have been with Voicestream for a year or two now and have been quite happy with them. They are in the midst of switching everything over to T-mobile, so my guess is that they have growing pains and everything is not going as expected. In my experience, their webpage is not indicative of their cellular service.

        Try checking out Amazon's cellular store. They have most/all the information that you need, great prices on phones (after rebates) and should have access maps to look at with rate plans.

        While you are free to tell your friends/family about your experience, I think that your reaction is kinda extreme. I bet if you called Verizon, Sprint, etc and told them that their webpage was down, they'd either say "Who cares", "Oh, ok" or "Thanks for calling" and then prompty take the next call doing nothing.
        • While you are free to tell your friends/family about your experience, I think that your reaction is kinda extreme. I bet if you called Verizon, Sprint, etc and told them that their webpage was down, they'd either say "Who cares", "Oh, ok" or "Thanks for calling" and then prompty take the next call doing nothing.

          You're probably right. The difference being, though, that T-Mobile has given me actual concrete proof while I can only speculate about the other companies because their customer service channels actually work.

          If a telecom can't get a web site to work I really have to question their technical competence. If their customer service can't address such a trivial problem (just remove the damn IP from the blocked list!) then I shudder to think what would happen if I had a serious problem with my service.

          • I can't vouch for the accuracy of the maps right now on Amazon, they look like the same maps that were on the Voicestream site. OF course there is the disclaimer that says actual coverage may change blah blah blah.

            I don't think your address is blocked. I think that they have a bad server or some other technical problem.
            • Well, given that everyone else in my office has no problem accessing their site, I can only conclude that it has something to do with my setup. Since going through an anonymizer works, I don't think it's anything on my computer. I've even tried multiple browsers (mozilla, konqueror and lynx).

              T-Mobile claims to have received no other reports of problems with the site.

  • Sadly I still have it, but only because they've screwed my account up so badly in MY favor I'd be insane to leave. 9 out of 10 times trying to access the mobile web it's down. Back when it was myvzw.com i hardly ever saw it down. It definitly ain't progress people.

    • Re:I'm tried it (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      You can thank Verizon's stellar DNS service for that. We host all the backend apps for your bookmarks and other phone content at InfoSpace. We don't host your myvzw.com DNS though.

      Since I work at InfoSpace, I get the privilege of watching monitors that check up on MyVZW.com and its related ilk 24/7. And guess what? I'm the very first person in the world to know when it goes down. Every single time I've called Verizon to report problems with MyVZW.com, they never knew something was wrong.

      At first they had both their primary and secondary nameservers on the same network. After quite a few incidents where that network fell off the internet (I was always amused) they finally figured out that you should keep your DNS servers apart. Redundancy and all. Did that stop them from having DNS problems? Hah! Of course not. Both servers continue to fall off the internet anyway. Who knows how they manage that.

      Back in the end of May (I think) myvzw.com went dark again. After a quick check I noticed the DNS servers were not to blame. They were responding to all sorts of happy requests. Unfortunately, it seems that they weren't getting all that much traffic. Verizon had let the MyVZW.com domain expire. Wai! You can check the whois database and see that myvzw.com was registered on May 31st.

      This story gets better. A coworker sent Verizon an email explaining their problem. 2 hours later, a Verizon tech called. It seems they couldn't figure out what was wrong. I explained again what the problem was, and sent another email. 4 hours later, they called again, still stumped. I explained again, and sent yet another email with all the gory details. All in all it took something like 7 hours for them to simply figure out what was wrong.

      Verizon was our biggest wireless customer for a long time. And Microsoft bought them away from us. There wasn't much we could do from what I hear. Amusingly though, I also hear that Verizon is unhappy with Microsoft already, about a great number of things from applications to mail services to a great deal of other things. But they're forging ahead anyway.

      Goodbye Verizon customers; we here at InfoSpace may not have been perfect, but at least we weren't Microsoft.

      -----

      All persons, corporations, and stories in this post are not real. Any similarity to real persons, corporations, or stories is entirely coincidental. Of course.

      This post is purely the byproduct of an overactive mind with nothing better to do at 4am.

      • Re:I'm tried it (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Hmmm...I rather like having "Anonymous Coward" as my nickname. :-)

        As a Verizon Mobile Web subscriber, I really liked the InfoSpace portal. I never had a problem with it once. But, alas, I also have AT&T's GSM service and T-Mobile. So, at least you won't lose this customer!

        The focus in this group has been on Passport and the dissemination of personal information. I didn't see a large focus on the fact that there have been a couple of security holes found in the service.

        Most interesting, though, is that several people have commented that they thought it was unlikely that the information would leave Microsoft's "capable" hands. It already has, folks. The EU and FTC have both dinged Microsoft for Passport. They don't do that for grins.

        I should note that the beginning of my note stated "As a Verizon Mobile Web subscriber..." Actually, I just called and terminated service. This change was just unacceptable.
  • the .net messenger, wap portal is just for the web access on the phone. You cant reach billing through that login. You have a separate location, login/password for billing. FYI, You can still get to a yahoo messenger.

    Go ahead and get it, I started playing around with the odd couple and added some calendar stuff to the msn calendar and found i could have stuff smsed to my cell and if I set it, i could have my cell smsed if i get a hotmail message from someone in my contacts or all messages or none. On the calendar side, you can set up a hunt deal where if a alarm goes off, if you are on your msn im, it msgs you there, if not it drops to email. or sms your cell.

    The calendar MSN has can import palm calendar databases, which is more than i can say for yahoo since they switched apps. Yahoo used to import, but now they created a sync application and require you to download the app and install it. You use it in place of your usual hotsync application. They forgot something tho, some of us use USB cables. Yahoo gets the finger for that.

    Which remote organization suite is better? I still say I like Yahoo. Yahoo wrote their own messenger client for use under linux. It works very close to the windows counterpart. If a alarm goes off on the calendar I get a message. If I receive new email, it messages me. A few other alerts are available through the client for stocks and other things I have no use for. Msn on the other hand, im left using the only client i can find that is stable on linux ccmsn. Totally featureless. MSN fails miserably by not having a linux client. They need to get their head out of their ass and wake up before it's their funeral.

    DRACO-

  • What crack are you on? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Tuesday September 10, 2002 @01:26PM (#4229679) Homepage
    Went to http://bill.verizonwireless.com/

    Input my username/password

    I now see my bill.

    Nothing about MSN.

    Yes, their online portal is a different story. They switched MyVZW from Infospace to MSN.

    Not like I care.

    My advice: Get a Kyocera Smartphone. No more need for the crappy $5/month Mobile Web WAP service, you now have a full-blown client side web browser, an excellent combo web/WAP browser (Blazer) is available for $20, and you get to use the hundreds of PQA apps that have been written for the Palm VII.
  • If you take a look at the industry, T-Mobile (formerly VoiceStream) has the very best in data services. Their WAP gateway is really usefull, the data connections are faster (not potentially, but actually faster), coverage is really good (better than Sprint, but not as good as Verizon), they have a variety of data services plans, and their Customer Service is *really* good. In the year that I have had T-Mobile/VoiceStream, I have never had a dropped call. I have only been using their data services for 2 months, but everything works really well. Hope this helps.

    http://www.t-mobile.com

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