A Better Breed of GPS Software? 189
willo asks: "I recently built an on board computer for my Grand Cherokee.
The initial uses for it include music, gps navigation, on board diagnostics and a baby cam so I can see how my kid is in that rear facing seat. After lots of research and testing, I'm really disappointed with the
mapping software out there for Linux. Gpsdrive provides the basic functionality I need, but the street names are built into the image and
are difficult to read at a glance while driving. Not to mention that it has to download the maps it needs ahead of time. Xastir can handle almost any map out there, but it reads through every map for each redraw! It also seems to lack the ability to zoom intelligently based on location. Note that it's not really designed to be a navigation aid, but rather a ham radio APRS tool. (I am a ham). Delorme Street Atlas USA does what I really want, but it's been a pain to make run properly under wine. Is anyone else out there working on a decent navigation application?"
"To be really usable navigation software should do the following:
- handle maps efficiently and draw them quickly
- have intelligently organized map sets for countries/states. (You can't download a friggin map in the middle of Montana!)
- include serial gps/gpsd support. (just about everyone has this)
Map Sources do exist for this! Bruce Perens made TIGER/line data availible. NAVTECH is the map source for pretty much all the vehicle navigation systems out there, and high resolution maps are availible from the Geographical Information Survey."
Windows (Score:1, Troll)
Jason.
Re:Windows (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Windows (Score:1)
Re:Windows (Score:2)
Who knows, stop complaining. Maybe he wants to build a prototype so he can sell them to the rest of us, or provide the plans for the rest of us. Who knows? If you don't have the answer, stop trolling for M$.
Re:Windows (Score:1)
Re:Windows (Score:2)
Re:Windows (Score:4, Interesting)
Now on to the informative stuff... There are two kinds of maps. Vector and Raster. Vector maps are smaller. The text and roads are just data, so road names can remain the same size at various zoom levels. Raster Maps are photos of maps. These are great for off road treks as they are detailed. The road names can be hard to read on vector maps. I use both kinds of maps. (I'm also a dedicated geocacher). I use the National Geographic TOPO maps with the GPS most of the time (great detail helps find best route to difficult location) TOPO maps are about 6 CD's per state for about $100 per state. They have full GPS waypoint management ability. Building a route is as simple as dropping waypoints on the map, connecting the dots and uploading it to your GPS. The other software I like for highway cruising is Streetfinder. It does not have upload/download abilities, but it does do a great job showing where you are. You can record your adventure and play it back later. Use it to fight that radar ticker. It plays back just like a saved race game including the time, speed and location. It makes a great package to check on your teen's driving. Find out where and when they went after or during the prom! The Vector software was much cheaper at $17 for the entire US on 3 CD's and included 1 CD of trip planning software. I have found no Linux replacements for either package. Since one of my older laptops came with Windows 95, it has become the mobile map unit. Hackability of the OS is of no concern, it has no net connectivity, so the security holes are not important for this application. No Office, No VBS, No TCP/IP, No hackers.
I forgot the name of the package, but there is a nice APRS feature being built into one of the map packages that supports RDF showing not only your location but the direction of your DF target. Great for getting a running fix on a fox if you also have auto DF with RS232 output. A Google search should show the DF version of APRS. It only works with a static map so far. Moving maps are not yet supported.
Re:Windows (Score:2)
-russ
Re:Windows (Score:3, Informative)
The pygps map has a long way to go to become a replacement for the Windows version of the National Geographic TOPO 7.5 minute series of state maps. Hopefully National Geographic will port this to Linux soon, but in the meantime, I'm stuck with Windows to use it.
Since I plugged the program, the state series maps can be found here; http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/topo/cdroms.cf
Re:Windows (Score:2)
-russ
Re:Windows (Score:2)
Try the Streetfinder software by Rand McNally. It works for me and is cheap. Even better is the National Geographic state series TOPO maps. I too have had the GPS die on a route, but the PC remained up when the GPS dropped out. Sometimes I think the interferance is from the laptop, not something broadcast. I seldom have that problem when not using the laptop. My GPS lives in the dash bracket and is connected to the laptop for geocaching and long trips. Oh and do yourself a favor and drop the tripmate pod. In reviews, it had the poorest performance. It's output is scrambled so you can't use it with other software, yada, yada, yada. Get something with true NMEA output to support industry standards and ditch the priprotary stuff. (I'm not trying to flame tripmate, just stating reasons I decided not to use it. I use one of the popular handhelds)
Re:Windows (Score:2)
The link is here to show this post was not for brand bashing. It's for compatibility to standards.
http://maps.nationalgeographic.com/to
The list is of receivers that support NMEA live-tracking mode. Most GPS map software uses this.
Tough question (Score:2)
For another higher-end app, check out FUGAWI (fugawi.com).
You may want to try VMWare or Win4Lin for Windows apps on Linux, the latter being *much* more lightweight than the former. I don't know if WIn4Lin can utilize the serial ports, but VMWare certainly can.
Re:Tough question (Score:2)
Win4Lin works just fine for serial/parallel access (my MPLAB-ICE works fine with it, which is more than I can say for Wine, unfortunately :-()
This is all great... (Score:1)
No they aren't... (Score:3, Troll)
I have the complete specs and entire dataset for the USA for the 1997 Census data set.. which includes streets,addresses,etc... It's free for public use and most companies base their dataset on this (although a current version of the data) or they use a closed and secret dataset... The problem is that the closed data set... I have the full specs on how to use it with sample C code from them on how to use it, and they basically wrote me my app except for the GUI... but the Dataset SUCKS (NavTech comes to mind).. and is horribly expensive... a 3 state CD costs $150.00 and is missing anything that is not a major metropolitan area.. which is useless as when you get lost it's out in the middle of nowhere...
gpsd is a must have, it's the best GPS data server on the planet (and the only one) but except for GPS drive, there is nothing that is worth even messing with as they are either too young to use, or havent been worked on cince 1999 and are dead/dying...
I'd help but I'm no C programmer... and C++ is plain evil (in my opinion) I dont know GTK, or Qt (Please PLEASE stay with GTK so I can use it with xfce or another window managet that is sane in size and resources needed)
But the same thing is happening on the windows side... Delorme tripmate software from 1998 is nice but needs help... the newer stuff is nothing but a rehash with the latest libs and designed to use the newest dataset. but as far as GPS navagation software, Microsoft platforms have crappy software too.. I want to do many different navigation things, How about storing a waypoint easily? how about storing the current position as a waypoint right now without disrupting the current nav operation? Nope...
Linux doesnt have that "itch" that needs to be scratched. At least not by a talented programmer.
Re:No they aren't... (Score:1)
You don't need a special WM to use a Qt application. Or even a KDE application.
Opera uses Qt. Look at the size of that, why don't you? Even statically linked it's small enough.
Re:No they aren't... (Score:2)
Re:No they aren't... (Score:2)
I'd help but I'm no C programmer... and C++ is plain evil (in my opinion) I dont know GTK, or Qt (Please PLEASE stay with GTK so I can use it with xfce or another window managet that is sane in size and resources needed)
I'd suggest using Qt for the exact same reasons -- With GTK I need about three dozen dependencies to just get the goddamned libraries working! Use Qt (or even KDE) and be done with it. And if you use just plain Qt, you can run on OSX and Win32 without using Cygwin, which most people won't want to use anyway.
Re:No they aren't... (Score:3, Informative)
Obviously I've done a bad job promoting pygps [pygps.org]. Or is it one of the ones you think is too young to use? Actually, it's older than gpsdrive. I just haven't worked on it (nor had as many contributors) as Fritz.
-russ
Re:No they aren't... (Score:3, Interesting)
using vector data and then making the program DRAW the map with just simple lines and fills and then just attach text labels to points of interest or line drawing the street names. it eliminates edge of map error, map calibration error and gives you the ability to ask the program "I am here, I want to go there... tell me how." as the vector data will allow the program to follow roads and give turn directions, road names, and distances to the next turn. This is a VERY important feature of a GPS navigation program... and unfortunatley there is absolutely nothing that has this ability in linux.Part of it is a lack of datasets... I have 2 that I am willing to offer for use to whoever waht to try and use them.. one that is 100% free to give away to anyone and the other that is horribly overpriced, low quality, and overall nasty (NavTech) but is fully documented with C code examples in the documentation book. The one I will freely give away a copy of... the other I can only loan it to someone but illegally as the EULA states that i am not to let any other person use the data.. (Funny Eula.. I basically have to remove the dataset CD from the car if I loan the car to someone.)
Re:No they aren't... (Score:2)
-russ
Re:Storing waypoints... (Score:2)
Check out the State series of National Geographic TOPO Maps. They are a little spendy, but I have not found anything better for any price. Marking places is as easy as hitting a hotkey or ckicking on the compass tool.
Re:No they aren't... (Score:2)
I'm interested because I have Garmin maps based on the NavTech maps, and they seem pretty accurate in my (limited so far) experience. And NavTech does now have street-level coverage of non-major metro areas, but I don't know where it came from or how good it is. (Seems to be pretty good visually for my in-laws in rural OH, but I haven't driven there with the GPS yet.)
When I look at the info at the Census Bureau's website about the Tiger data, it looks really scary. There have been almost no considerations for accuracy in updates in years, though they look like they're trying to fix it.
Interested in any more details you can share, as someone who's actually gotten a detailed look at the datasets.
Baby Cam (Score:2, Funny)
What's your kid gonna be doing, anyway ? Holding up a large sign saying "Daddy, stop being so bloody stupid" ?
Absolutely Correct! (Score:3, Insightful)
As my high school football coach/drivers ed teacher used to say, "Keep your God damn eyes on the road before I smack you in the head!".
Re:Absolutely Correct! (Score:1)
I completely agree that distractions should be avoided, but any mechanism that allows the driver to minimize the effort and attention required to collect information about the road around him and the occupants in the vehicle is good in my book.
Re:Baby Cam (Score:2)
As long as he doesn't watch it more than a quick glance on an empty highway or at a stoplight or such, then I don't mind, but otherwise, I'm scared.
--Dan
some decent windows software (Score:1)
Time is the solution, unfortunately (Score:1)
GPSDrive *is* a great solution...you just have to have roving connectivity, or trace the route before you go. Yeah, I know- I've been waiting for roving connectivity since 1978...
In the big picture, GPSDrive is probably it; the way open source works is to take requirements, tips, and inspiration from users and turns them into reality. And every day it gets more polished, better, more capable.
I've wanted to take my whole life on the road [countermoon.com] full time since 1978. I got distracted by a wife and kids, but now I'm working on it again. I've seen LEO satellites launched, go bankrupt, and get re-used. ($3000 to start, and $6 a MINUTE?!?!)
Given time, it'll be there....contact the guys at GPSDrive, offer'em help and maybe you can stay free, in the car...
Re:Time is the solution, unfortunately (Score:1)
Re:Time is the solution, unfortunately (Score:1)
My flatmate then had to convert some massive data sets from one format to another, 20 lines of perl, but they needed to use VB just because. So we now have people who know enough programming to operate Excel, but not enough to write an app themselves, and these are the people you depend on working at the GPS companies...
Re:Time is the solution, unfortunately (Score:2)
-russ
Try building your own GPS mapping software.... (Score:5, Informative)
All at Chaeron GPS Software [chaeron.com]
Also check out the Mobile GPS Demonstration Platform (MGDP) project info (in
Enjoy!
GPS Mapping Software (Score:5, Informative)
ExpertGPS is unique in that it pulls down topo maps and aerial photos over your Internet connection, so you can scroll the map across the country and the program automatically downloads and displays the correct maps. For the geocachers out there, ExpertGPS reads geocache data downloaded from http://www.geocaching.com/, and even links back to the geocaching website to report your finds.
The next release will support scanned paper maps and additional file formats, and a PocketPC version is in the works.
About a year ago, a bunch of GPS developers got together to work on a standard XML file format for exchanging GPS data. A number of programs now support GPX (the GPS Exchange format), including programs for Mac, Windows, and Linux. For details, see http://www.topografix.com/gpx_resources.asp
Re:GPS Mapping Software (Score:1)
Re:GPS Mapping Software (Score:1)
ExpertGPS [expertgps.com] gets its maps from the Microsoft TerraServer site, which gets the maps directly from the USGS. USGS topo maps are only updated when major changes to the topology occur, so it's normal for their maps to be 20 years old in some areas.
The next version of ExpertGPS [expertgps.com] will allow you to use your own scanned maps (street maps, nautical charts, etc) for areas where the maps aren't up to date.
Re:GPS Mapping Software (Score:2)
As you can see, the person submitting the comment was complaining about the limited GPS software out there for Linux so aside from the plug for your product, any plans to work more with the opensource community?
If it ain't vector, it ain't worth it. (Score:3, Insightful)
Raster maps don't allow zooming unless you download multiple resolutions, and once you've done this, the maps take a LOT more space than a vector map.
Note: The TIGER datasets are not a good example of a vector map size-wise, as they're in an ASCII format for ease of processing - A lot of the numeric fields could have their ASCII representations replaced with binary to save a LOT of space. Also, rather than having each "road segment" include the name of the road, the segments can be chained together to make a road definition that is a series of latitude/longitude points in a chain. Somewhere I've got a Perl script that does this and outputs it in a format used by a neato Garmin Mapsource map generator program. (Long since disappeared from the 'net...
There's apparently a Gnomad project that aims to support vector maps under Linux, but it's vaporware at the moment. Not even an alpha or CVS release.
The data is there, it's just a matter of writing the software...
Re:GPS Mapping Software (Score:2)
Thanks.
xastir (Score:5, Informative)
More intelligent map handling is in the works for Xastir. For things like Tiger maps it already doesn't read thru every map for each redraw and the maps are nicely detailed. And organizing the tigermap sets is high on the list of todo's.
If you see features that are needed, come on by the sourceforge project page at http://sourceforge.net/projects/xastir/ [sourceforge.net] and leave a feature request. Or join us on the mailing lists at: http://krypton.hscs.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/ xastir-dev [virginia.edu]
and http://krypton.hscs.virginia.edu/mailman/listinfo/ xastir [virginia.edu]
The developers are active and very responsive to reasonable feature requests. (heck we even accept some of the unreasonable ones :-)
What happened to Gnomad? (Score:2, Interesting)
The screenshots for Gnomad [gnomad-mapping.com] made me think we'd have a good solution someday soon, but it still doesn't appear to even be available for download.
Use sound? (Score:1, Interesting)
Upon rereading I've notice gpsdrive doesn't actually know the road names, it's "built into the image." That's huge problem for systems that do things like direct you. I think it's about time that some dedicated people figure out ways to get around that because the software will not be fully functional til it reaches that point..
Open Location based Services (OLS) (Score:4, Interesting)
You can find out a bit more about one initative that they are involved in here:
http://www.openls.org/about.htm
And a google on OpenLS will bring you back more.
Now, all that tells you is about the standards, but doesn't give you any tools you actualy need.
[big self plug]
I am one of the lead developers of GeoTools2 an open source Java project which is aiming to implement as many of the OGC standards as make sense (and those of other standards groups if they seem appropriate). So far the toolkit will give you the parts you need to read a number of datasources, filter them to show what you want to see and render them using a detailed styling descriptor aimed at geographic information.
It dosn't hook to GPS yet, though the ChaeronGPS library mentioned in other posts may merge well with what we have alrady.
I'm not a mobile map expert, though I would be happy to combine the map rendering expertese I have with someone who is activly developing GPS solutions.
GeoTools2 is available under the LGPL (www.geotools.org), the OGC can be found at www.opengis.org
--
Spell checker (c) Creative Spelling inc. (aka my dyslexic brain)
postgis (Score:3, Informative)
PostGIS adds support for geographic objects to the PostgreSQL
object-relational database. In effect, PostGIS "spatially enables" the
PostgreSQL server, allowing it to be used as a backend spatial database
for geographic information systems (GIS), much like ESRI's SDE or
Oracle's Spatial extension. PostGIS follows the OpenGIS "Simple Features
Specification for SQL" and will be submitted for compliance testing at
version 1.0.
PostGIS has been developed by Refractions Research Inc as a research
project in spatial database technology. PostGIS is released under the
GNU General Public License. We intend to continue development as time
and resources permit. Our list of future projects includes enhanced
technology for data loading and dumping, user interface tools for direct
data access and manipulation, and support for advanced topologies at the
server side, such as coverages, networks, and surfaces.
http://postgis.refractions.net/
http://qgis.sourceforge.net/
Re:postgis (Score:1)
Bring pressure to bear on the vendors (Score:3, Insightful)
As I see it, the problem is that creating a trip planning program is hard - not only do you need the map data (which is available), you need the route computing algorithm, you need the map drawing algorithm, you need the database of attractions, rest stops, gas stations, restaurants, and hotels. You need to pull all of that together. A proper trip planning program would be a project of greater magnitude than a good word processor.
While I would definitely agree that the best solution would be a Free Software solution, with a Free Software database, if you look closely at my ID you will notice that I'm Wowbagger, not RMS - I will accept a closed solution.
Unless someone is (actually, severel someones are) interested in creating a project on Sourceforce for this, I think the best solution is to bring pressure to bear on the vendors. Imagine if Delorme's suggestion box were
I have to wonder if the "give away the razor, sell the blades" model would work for a Delorme - make the actual mapping program Free Software, and make the old versions of their maps freely available (a la the AlladinSoft Ghostscript model), but sell access to the latest maps. This way, we could create a good mapping program under Linux, and have access to a database to feed it, but Delorme could still make money off their value-added - the up to date databases.
What I'd like to have is a scriping interface - so that I could write my planning script to say "Don't bother looking for hotels along the way - only look within 50 miles of a nighttime stop. Look for GOOD attractions within 100 miles of the route, mediocre attractions within 25 miles, and whatever within 5 miles. I want to leave at 17:30 Friday, I want to stop around 21:00 +/- 1 hour, start my days at 07:00, and stop for lunch around 12:00+/- 1 hour. Try to schedule stuff around those times." In other words, let my script generate trial routes, query the database relative to that route, and make changes.
Also, give me the ability to plug in my own databases (something Delorme is lacking in) - I want to get the database of 2 meter and 70 cm repeaters from the ARRL and plug that in too.
Re:Bring pressure to bear on the vendors (Score:2)
I was thinking about this more after I posted the previous comment.
First, I'd like to ask everyone who actually takes the time to contact Delorme to drop a line in my journal [slashdot.org]. In the past, when I've contacted Delorme about this, I have been told "Yours is the first request we've ever had for this".
I think what happens is the marketing types who handle such requests just discard anything that does not fit their preconceived notions, so all requests for Linux support get trashcaned.
Secondly, I think I may have an insight as to how we can persuade Delorme to work with the Free Software Movement. What follows is conjecture on my part, based on observation - if anybody from Delorme is reading this and wants to disprove me, go right ahead - but you'd better provide an (@delorme.com) address or I will ignore you.
From what I can see of the DLLs that the various Delorme products install, I would conclude their software is written in a mix of Visual Basic and Visual C++ - VB for most of the UI, C for the core functions.
From the rate at which they add new features to the programs, and the nature of the features so added, I would conclude that Delorme has a fairly small number of programmers - I would guess about 5 or so. This isn't surprising - they are mostly cartographers, not bit slingers.
Now, if these two inferences are correct, then I would not be surprised if Delorme's codebases are kind of crufty - the reason they don't knock new features out fast is that the codebase is too brittle and non-extensible to do so. If that is correct, then the ideal way in which Delorme could support non-Windows OSs would be with a code base rewrite to a more portable framework (e.g. Qt) and a more flexible design. The fact that this would allow Delorme on Zarius and other high-end palmtops as well as making Embbeded Delorme easier would be a plus.
Now, if I were the Lead Software Engineer at Delorme, my decision would be based upon the cost of a rewrite (both in terms of raw programmer hours, and in terms of opportunity costs - the cost of NOT shipping a new version every few months) vs. the benefits of such an action (being able to release MacOS versions right along with Windows, to add new features faster, etc.) What I would have to be able to present to management would be a way to do this with as little risk and as much profit as possible.
Perhaps a team of Free programmers could offer to do this rewrite for Delorme? It would have to be done under NDA initially, but the terms could be that once the deliverable code was ready and approved, Delrome would allow a dual license for the code. Were Delorme to refuse the code, then the code would revert to the programmers (minus any proprietary databases and such).
This would allow Delorme to continue as they have, but if the code delivered was of high enough quality they could jump to the new model quickly.
Again, Delorme's value added is the database, not the program to access it. As such, it might be possible to convice them that a Free program to access the data INCREASES the value of the data to the consumer, and thus gives Delorme more profit potential.
Delorme DOES listen to their customers. (Score:1)
Unfortunately, that tends to confirm my hypothesis (Score:2)
Consider the nature of the feature you asked for - given a simple file format, for each object in file, create an icon on the map. Since they already have the "create an icon" code, the rest of this feature is a pretty simple one to implement.
Unfortunately, the code to implement what I want (Linux support) is NOT already present in their code base. And given some of the other replies to my posts, my conjecture about the nature of the code base seems to be correct - they would have great difficulty porting to anything that isn't MS Windows.
Razors and Razor Blades? (Score:1)
The big problem is that you don't have to buy the charts from us, we're compadable with other charts as well, and there are standards for electronic charts that many vendors follow (I'm not sure, but I'd assume that street-level charts have a simular standard). So in this case, the company making the software could end up not making money at all. The give the software away for free method works best where people/companies would pay for services, the only way this could work out for the company would be if the software somehow could only use the maps they sell, and they charged a lot more money for them.
Re:Bring pressure to bear on the vendors (Score:2)
From their email I got a thing like "Market forces.... drop support for Mac.... not in the foreseeable future'
They really didn't seem to care that I had just spent money on a new laptop, was willing to drive to their store (I live in Maine, not far from Eartha - the worlds largest globe and their store)that day to buy a copy if they had anything in OS X flavor. They also didn't appear willing to listen at all to suggestions of ports to OSX or Linux. So, I've informed them that I'll use anything BUT DeLorme, since they don't want to support anyone that doesn't use Microsoft products.
The two contacts I've had just made me feel that they were indifference to me, the person not in the 90%+ market share they cater to.
That's my epxerience with DeLorme.
(and it's a shame, I love to support Maine companies).
Linux, Marketing, and Value (Score:2, Insightful)
From their email I got a thing like "Market forces.... drop support for Mac.... not in the foreseeable future'
I used to hear that from hardware companies five years ago. I'd invite them to ask their technical staff about Linux, as a significant percent of them are using Linux at home (How did I know? That's what I heard from companies where tech staff answered queries.)...and if Linux has penetrated widely enough that even your staff is using it, consider again its market forces.
I stopped hearing "What's Linux?" from hardware manufacturers within a year. Even their marketing staff now knows.
Small software companies are less likely to know of alternatives, as their few people are less likely to have much experience. (The math is obvious: there are a huge number of small software companies and few people with much experience)
The advantage which many companies have is in their data, not their software. Mapping, geneological, news organizations are selling data.
In the case of mapping, all those dependent upon publicly available data are fighting a losing battle as the public data is massaged and used for public software. Routing algorithms can be a marketing advantage briefly, as there are public routing algorithms and a little public code (some not intended for geographic mapping, such as in circuit layout).
The companies which generate their own mapping data have the greatest data advantage and should be selling the data for any application which wants to use it. Note that any set of data might be sold to a single customer if that customer is willing to pay a sufficiently large price. The creator/user of that data only has an advantage if their data is not available from someone else. And that's a matter of whether or not someone else wants to devote the amount of effort needed to create the data from the publicly available real world. Technology is a strong influence -- mappers used to have to have people extracting data points from photographs, maps, and surveys. Now a computer might be scanning a photo and comparing it with previous maps.
There also are specialty maps, where again it's the effort to create the data which makes it of value. The market for maps of underground mines is small but there are a few mining companies willing to pay a large price. A larger number, such as companies involved in drilling, is less concerned about underground hollows but would be willing to pay a smaller amount for purposes such as reducing the shock on equipment. A much larger number is willing to pay even less, such as prospectors looking for types of minerals previously encountered, environmental groups examining an area, or home shoppers wanting to get a site suitable for trying a geothermal system.
The problem is in how to market the data so as to maximize the profit. Publishing all the data for the many cheap users might mean the few high-priced users won't need to pay the high price. Such things can be handled by methods such as making the price cheaper with a decreasing resolution. The cheapest data might only show there is a mine within a circle of a certain size. The most expensive may be a three-dimensional representation of all the mines in a specific area or highest price for the most recent data.
So... How can you present a business case to Delorme or someone else to make the definition of one of their data sets public? Do they have a product which already only has a data advantage over public code? For years people have been buying CD-ROMs of games solely to get the data file needed for the public code. If a public map program does what I want, I'd gladly buy a reasonably priced set of data for it. Just as I have bought computers preloaded with software priced at thousands of dollars, and immediately erased it all to put Linux on the hardware.
Addresses in my journal (Score:2)
I would appreciate anyone who emails or hard mails Delorme writing a brief note about what they did as a comment in that journal entry. I've been pestering Delorme for several years, and they've often responded with "Yours is the first request we've ever had for this." I'd like to build up some evidence to refute that assertion.
My onboard navigation solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Advantages:
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
Also, for military applications, paper maps still work after being shot/dropped/run over. Maybe the operator won't work too well but the map still will.
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:1)
wouldn't it be considered solar powered? Cheap and renewable!
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
Works for me. My wife and I just finished a 1200 mile vacation trip from Maryland to Florida by way of the Appalachian and Blue Ridge mountains, including some dirt road and off road exploring in our (decidedly non-grand) Cherokee.
We found several obscure, scenic mountain lodges in Virginia and N. Carolina, and a funky/cool restored old hotel (with a great bar) in a small Georgia town along the way, no problem, and we didn't use a computer or other electronic device at any point, just your basic (paper) Road Atlas.
Navigation is not that hard. Really. And Wednesday, here in Forida, I plan to go sailing on Sarasota Bay, and I'll find my way with a chart and a hand-held compass. That's all anyone with a brain needs to find their way around the inland waterways, same as a decent road map is all you need to find your way on land in well-mapped countries like the U.S. (And I've found my way in plenty of places that weren't well-mapped, too.)
- Robin
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
You were on *vacation*, not working. There's a big difference between navigating with the wife on vacation ("Hey, honey, let's go find a nice place to eat"), and trying to get to a customer's office within 15 minutes in a town you've never seen before ("His raid array is down - get there as fast as possible!"). When I'm on vacation, I take a map. When I'm on a deadline and I have to meet suits, I bring GPS.
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm at a customer site. I get a call that I am needed, immediately, at another site in the next city. I jump into the trusty Batmobile and type in the address on the touch sensitive, in dash screen. As I back out of the parking space, a progress bar is displayed for about fifteen seconds, "Calculating route".
As I start out of the parking lot, a map of the best route to this new location is displayed on the screen and the route is drawn on the map. In a side bar, information such as trip time and distance is clearly displayed as well as an indicator of the distance to the next turn, its street name and which direction I need to turn.
Just then the stereo system's volume drops to a whisper and a soothing lady's voice announces, "Proceed straight for two miles. Then turn left on Oak Street.". And the music volume is returned to normal.
Two minutes later, the stereo volume drops again. There is a gentle "bong" and the now familiar voice says, "Left turn ahead, half mile."
This is repeated continuously throughout the trip. The whole time the map is being updated, showing my present position in the middle of the screen. The map rotates as I change directions and I can, at the touch of a single button zoom the map in or out to get my preferred view.
Finally, the lady's voice comes on again, "Destination just ahead on left.". I swing left into the parking lot and go to work.
After completing my work, it's time for lunch. I'm not familiar with this particular city and I have no idea where the restaurants are. I slide into the Batmobile again and start navigating the menu on the touch sensitive screen. I select Destination -> Places -> Restaurants and I am given a menu listing 10 or more types of restaurants. I select Chinese -> Sort by Distance and I am presented with a list of Chinese restaurants and their distance from my position. I don't like the sound of the first two in the list and I press the third selection for the Golden Dragon @ 1.2 miles. The lady's voice returns and guides me directly to to Golden Dragon.
After lunch, I want to get my oil changed. A friend told me to try a new repair shop not far from my home. I don't have an address, just the phone number that my friend gave me. Once again, the Batmobile is there. I select from my destination menu, "By Phone Number" and punch in the phone number. The screen changes and lists, "Speedy's Honest Lube Parlor 1653 Blue St". I hit enter and I'm again presented with a guide map to the destination. As I start to drive the familiar voice returns, "Left turn one mile ahead on 22nd Ave".
Sweet!!!!
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Those equipped with a good brain who have clients so important that you sometimes have to drop everything and drive there at high speed MIGHT WANT TO KNOW HOW TO GET THERE!
Paper map is the way to go -- ever hear of a road atlas with indexes and city detail maps?
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
I've had my Garmin GPS V for a week.
My GPS V makes it much easier to route from point A to point B, because I don't have to sit pouring over the maps while I'm trying to drive. If I get caught in traffic, I pick a random side road and the GPS recalculates my route and tells me where to turn. I don't have to try to read the street signs they place (which are often missing, too small, or decorative and thus hard to read) because my GPS knows where I am and tells me where to turn. If it's wrong (which it hasn't been yet), I'll tool around till it figures out where I am, and again recalc and tell me where to go.
Let the computer do the work it's good at.
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
I see that Garmin sells the Topomaps on CD, is that the maps you load? Can you comment on the resoultion?
Re:My onboard navigation solution... (Score:2)
My experience is with the City Select map set which came with the GPS V. CS is based on NavTech data and very detailed streetwise, but it doesn't have many topographic features (beyond "lake here, river here").
To take a look at the garmin topo maps, go to Garmin's site [garmin.com] and try out the map viewer in the upper right.
Re:This is being worked on... (Score:2)
If you want the auto manufacturers to play - you need to get more awareness among the public of your research, and then perhaps get US sciency TV channels like discovery to cover it, etc...
On another note - the amaccs area of the web site doesn't appear to be linked from the main page. The direct link your provided works - but if I go back to the company main page, there's no way to find it again.
Microsoft MapPoint 2002 (Score:3, Informative)
Have you tried getting Microsoft MapPoint 2002 to run under Wine? I've been playing with the MSDN version from work and it seems to work real well. It's just, obviously, Win32-based. It might be worth investigating... Huge install, but that's all the maps.
Re:Microsoft MapPoint 2002 (Score:2)
Make your own using GRASS (Score:4, Informative)
* A framework for organizing, storing and retrieving maps.
* Map information that can be presented multiple layers at a time.
* A means of generating an image file based on various map layers.
* A map feature attribute mechanism. This is what allows you to control street names and how they appear as you zoom in and out.
* A C api with over 800 GIS functions. (Also a Java interface)
With GRASS, you could write a C program that monitors the GPS fix queries the map database and repeatadly presents the info as a image on your screen.
BTM
Gpsdrive or OziExplorer for linux (Score:1)
You wanna Linux solution? (Score:3, Informative)
Right now, the best solution available is from Alpine [alpine1.com]. By combining these products you can have everything that you want with the exception of the web cam. But, you can hack that yourself.
No, none of these are free. In fact, they are really quite expensive but, it sounds like you want the best so, here [alpine1.com] it is.
The other alternative is to get another vehicle that already has this equipment installed and beautifully integrated into the vehicle. You will think that you have died and gone to heaven if you trade your Grand Cherokee for an Acura MDX [acura.com]. The vehicle is one of the finest SUVs available and the gadgets are sweet! The navigation system does all that you want, has voice prompts integrated into the mind blowing Bose audio system and your rear passengers will truely appreciate the DVD changer.
Re:You wanna Linux solution? (Score:1)
And let's face it, the Jeep Grand Cherokee is an original, and therefore real, SUV. Almost everything else is for yuppy wankers and soccor moms. And Acura? Does it come with VTEC stickers and irrelevent Chinese glyphs?
Need Inexpensive GPS Unit (Score:2)
Streetfinder is inexpensive enough by itself at $30, but finding a GPS that includes a PC cable seems to be running in the area of $150. Anyone have a recommendation on an inexpensive GPS unit that can connect to a PC and works with Streetfinder?
Re:Need Inexpensive GPS Unit (Score:1)
Re:Need Inexpensive GPS Unit (Score:2)
Streetfinder is a excellent package for in the car. Only one problem I have using it on my laptop and my Garmin eMap...the speed is UNRELIABLE on the laptop. The GPS readout is perfect, but the computer's speed is 10 MPH off.
Delorme is nice because of the voice queues and I do believe it can do automagic reroutes.
I hate to say it, but the maps on Microsoft's program are beautiful, but the GPS features are anemic. It only shows location, no re-routing, no nice legend display or anything. That and it only updates like every 30 seconds.
That said, for Linux, gpsd is there. It can get the coordinates from the gps. Main problem with this stuff is the cost of the cartography.
Delorme seems to take a while to crank out new features because it already has alot of stuff others don't. There are some basic things that folks want with this stuff and once your there, why change? One thing I would like with ANY of these is the ability to subscribe to the program. Microsoft had/has this, but they priced it so out of line that I could get a better deal if I just went to Sam's, bought the program and sent in the rebate for (anywhere between 12 and 20 bucks after rebate instead of 50). In any case, Linux stuff is almost going to have to be commercial. Not many folks can afford to by the data they need to make a program and that would be the only way to do it unless you want to have crappy software. That said, there's a future in this kind of stuff. Noone gets lost, no one gawks at street signs or building signs until they get with in a few feet of their destination. It could make driving safer for all of us.
Re:Need Inexpensive GPS Unit (Score:1)
huh? (Score:2)
what page exactly were you referring to?
Re:Need Inexpensive GPS Unit (Score:1)
Basically, since it is for my brother, he pretty much just wants it for the novelty of having GPS in his vehicle. He's still in highschool and doesn't really have a lot of money, and he'll be a bit disappointed if I have to tell him he's gonna have to spend even $150 for Staples current GPS offering... Really what I'm trying to find for him is something like the Rand McNally StreetFinder and GPS [staples.com] Staples used to sell, in the neighborhood of about the same price.
Yes, we're doing that (Score:1)
Is anyone else out there working on a decent navigation application?"
Telmap [telmap.com] are doing just that. The client is written in Java, and will run properly under Linux.
Re:Yes, we're doing that (Score:1)
Oh, the server will run both offboard (when a connection to the net is available) and onboard, when one isn't. Our production server currently runs on Solaris, so Linux should be no problem whatsoever. I'm not we're going to officially support Linux, but the software will definitely run on it.
Here is my baby cam... (Score:1)
Thesis (Score:1)
Bulgemobiles (Score:1, Troll)
And don't forget, it's Unamerican not to go to the Cavalcade of Chrome!
If you want a good laugh, visit a Hummer dealer. The Hummer 2 is a mommymobile. Everybody looking at them has rugrats in tow. The thing doesn't even have enough driver legroom for tall guys, and the towing capacity is low (less than a Ford Explorer) for the size of the thing.
Buy a commercial unit... (Score:2)
A PC in the car makes sense as a jukebox, but you should really consider just getting an off-the-shelf mapping system. (A side benefit to this is that you may be able to use the video input to the head unit for the map as a monitor for your pc)
-Isaac
Consider a standalone solution (Score:2)
There are downsides. You will need windows capabilities to download maps to the unit, but you won't need to do it while driving. You'll have all the maps on CD, so they won't be autoupdated but you won't need an internet connection to upload maps. It won't integrate into the rest of your systems beyond waypoint, route and track, and position transfer.
But if you want navigation, it's a better solution.
comments (Score:3, Informative)
TIGER/Line data for the entire country (U.S.) is always available for free from the Census Bureau in TIGER format. If you find free datasets online you can pretty much bet they are based on TIGER. If you need data in a more standard industry format, ESRI makes TIGER available in their Shape format here [esri.com] although it may not always be the latest available. TIGER is not the best data for routing and/or GPS applications, but being complete and free it will generally do the job in a pinch. There are lots of other companies that resell this data in more useful formats, sometimes with many enhancements.
Regarding software:
Communication with a GPS via NMEA sentences is relatively simple. NMEA is a standard text format that most (all?) GPSs are able to use. I have written several simple objects that parse NMEA into usable information and I'm sure there is lots of existing code available to do just this if you dig.
GIS was originally a UNIX market and some vendors (ESRI atleast) still sell GIS software for these platforms. The problem is, GIS has been traditionally expensive and tools like ArcInfo are way beyond your needs. I have yet to find a simple GIS with routing for Xwindows.
There is a small company in Poland called TatukGIS [tatukgis.com] that sells an excellent GIS toolkit called the TatukGIS Developer Kernel. It includes a very capable GIS viewer object and a GPS object for NMEA. These tools are written with and originally designed for Borland Delphi although they now make an ActiveX version available. Last year they made a release that was compatible with one of the earlier versions of Kylix. I'm not sure if the current version is still focused on cross-platform compatibility, but this would be an excellent tool to use and would do the job with no problems.
I have both Kylix and the DK here as well as plenty of data and have worked with the DK quite a bit on the Windows platform. I'll have to see if I can get a little tool built on one of the XWindows machines. From previous posts it seems that there may be an interest if such a tool were created.
Empeg Car/Rio MP3 Car w/GPS (Score:2)
Once again though, the lack of good quality GPS tools and maps for Linux is sort of a stumbling block.
I've been playing with GPS stuff for years now - and I agree with the assertion that DeLorme's Street Atlas USA has the best. Unfortunately, I never cared much for some aspects of their interface. It's just that the maps themselves look the best, and it seems to track your position on the streets quite well. The biggest problems I saw in the product were related to ease of locating specific addresses or locations, so you could mark them as start or end points in a complete route.
Right now, I have a Clarion AutoPC in my car, and I'm using the 3rd. party Odyssey GPS package with it. The map data it uses is quite good, but the AutoPC itself doesn't have a fast enough CPU in it. It always lags behind where your car really is. It shows you coming up on an intersection just after you've driven past it. Quite annoying.
Just one question... (Score:2)
In all seriousness if you just want to run something that's not Microsoft for the fact that you hate the big evil empire, then I advise you to move to a small island in the middle of the ocean somewhere and forgo technology completely because you're never going to get away from large "evil" corporations in the real world. If you have "principles" that state you can't use Microsoft products because they are a big "evil" empire, then those same principles should prevent you from owning a computer all-to-gether (unless you are a hypocrit) because all the hardware is manufactured by big "evil" empires.
GIS apps (Score:1)
http://www.microimages.com/tntlite/
OpenMap is another free application of interest, although I've found it to be a little quirky.
http://openmap.bbn.com/whatis.html
GPS TrackMaker (for windows, but read on) (Score:1)
If you're on Windows (God forbid!) I found one of the most attractive options to be GPS TrackMaker [gpstm.com]. Specially if you like hiking/biking outside and then doing calculations, smoothing, altitude profiling or whatever you feel like doing with your track records.
There is a (very complete) freeware version and a paid-for that is more targeted to the geo professionals. It takes a while to get the handle to it, but well worth your time. Don't forget to download the longer manual along with the software.
Disclaimer: no links to the software or its makers. Just another happy user
Marine Navigation (Score:1)
One of the hassles (certainly for UK) is that ARCS (the admiralty raster charts) are _very_ expensive. oh, and dongle protected...
pygps will have this ... (Score:2)
-russ
UI-View - another "Ham-ware" (Score:1)
Although not strictly for navigation -
since you mentioned the Amateur Radio
APRS system - I just thought I'd men-
tion UI-View (reviewed, at last, in
QST, Feb 2002).
It's 32-bit version (req's registration)
easily imported a 4 MB map JPEG, derived
from a 20 MB TIF (thanks to ImageMagick)
which would be of good use to those of
us interested in navigating around in
non-urban areas, where topographic maps
are more useful than street maps.
The resolution & colors were BEAUTIFUL!
(Now, if we can only get the organisa-
tion that's used -our- taxes to make
the map[book] to -share- access to the
TIFs from which the -other- 99 pages
were printed, we could navigate just
a bit -further- afield with these great
maps... South Australia doesn't work
like it does in Sweden & USA - yet!
3-D Mapping Software for GPS's (Ozi Explorer) (Score:1)
Oh, also useful is incorporating elevation data
into the displayed images, which model the land
Ozi seems to be working on this (last time we
looked, there was a beta to download).
Any other similar work out there (pref. Open
Source, which of course Ozi is NOT) ?
ultrageeks? get a GPS for $15! (Score:2)
Another possibility is using a DeLorme Earthmate laptop-type GPS, you can get them cheap on ebay et al. Alas they use a proprietary (ick) Rockwell protocol, but it also spits out some NMEA.
Stay away from the Windows/Wine DeLorme software: it sucks hard. The best software I've found, hands down is
just a coupla points for you geeks to pontificate on,
- john
Re:ultrageeks? get a GPS for $15! (Score:2)
Sorry about the PDF.
Yeah, me (Score:1)
Make sure you anchor that babycam (Score:1)
People often install mirrors in the back seat to allow them to see the baby in the rear-facing seat. There have apparently been incidents where the car is in a low-speed accident, and the accident itself was harmless, but the flying mirror injured the baby. Of course, this applies to any material in the back seat which isn't tied down.
So make certain you mount that babycam well...
Re:Lack of software is the not problem (Score:2)
re:havent used it... (Score:2)
No updates since Feb 2002, looks like a dead project.