Programming BREW Phones

jrmbadger writes "I just purchased a BREW enabled phone (a Motorola T720...very cool) from Verizon Wireless. BREW is sort of a competitor to J2ME, but I won't bore you with the details. I was very encouraged that Qualcomm (BREW's developer) has put the SDK on the web for free. However, to compile for the mobile, you need an ARM compiler, which runs $1,500. I think it would be really cool to be able to develop apps for my phone, but I'm not going to spend $1,500 on the compiler alone! Does anyone know how you can create BREW apps on the cheap?"

Google is your God

[ceejayoz]

First search result on Google [objsw.com].

gcc

[leviramsey]

Doesn't gcc compile for ARM?

The next question is, is the BREW SDK gcc-clean?

GCC mystery

[msponer]

I talked to the Qualcomm folks about this at the BREW developers conference in June. They said they have GCC working and would post the details to their developer site. I haven't seen this yet, so I guess they ran into trouble or this is a low priority.

Some folks on the BREW developer discussion board [qualcomm.com] have tried to figure out for themselves how to get GCC to work. According to them, GCC will not work because it does not compile position independent code that uses the ARM procedure call standard (ie: it doesn't implement the -mapcs-reentrant command line option).

Harvey Mudd College had a student project last year to get GCC working for BREW. Unfortunately they never posted their results to the web.

gcc?

[e8johan]

You'll need to know the format of the binaries, calling conventions etc. but except from that, I think that you can use gcc.
The guys working with uClinux [uclinux.org] (the uClinux directory [home.at], uCdot [ucdot.org] and an Arm emulator [uclinux.org]) has a precompiled toolchain and lots of tips. Imagine glibc + gcc on a cell phone... Now I can play xbill on the train!

Re:gcc?

[leviramsey]

Hmmm...

I've been looking for a good free ARM emulator/debugger combo (as UMass teaches assembly language using ARM). I've been stuck coding in vim through ssh, cp'ing it through samba to the lab boxen, and running it there. It's not optimal...

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

T720 A Bit Disappointing

[CritterNYC]

I've had the T720 for about 5 days, myself, and have been a bit disappointed with it. BREW is one of the reasons. Apparently, BREW apps can only be loaded through Verizon. And, it seems that Verizon only has apps that make them money in their Get It Now service. It also seems they disabled the ability to get ringtones into the phone through SMS... and instead you must use their Get It Now service and pay to load them (2 bucks each). Also, that handy color screen won't be able to display any of your own pictures... there's currently no way to load your own (Verizon says to use pictavision... but it doesn't support the T720).

In the end, you get this cool phone with a nice color screen, polyphonic ringtones and BREW app support... but no way to put any of your own stuff onto the phone. I checked this out with Verizon and Motorolla today. I'm going to check with Motorolla to see if the firmware is at least upgradeable tomorrow (to fix the bugs like custom rings on numbers locking up the phone). Most likely, this phone will be going back.

Re:T720 A Bit Disappointing

[zwoelfk]

Your phone needs to be flashed as a development version in order for you to install application directly.

You might be able to convince a Verizon store to do this for you (if you say you're developing brew apps).

However, the phone becomes much less stable in general. Don't use it as your only phone!

I don't think there's a practical way around dropping cash to get into brew development.

However the ARM compiler is available for a 30 day trial, so you should be able to get all the tools together (for free) just to see if it's something you're interested in.

Of course the best source for information is Qualcomm's Brew Development Page [qualcomm.com]

Re:T720 A Bit Disappointing

[Wakko Warner]

Thanks. I'd been thinking of getting one myself, mostly because it looked pimp and would've been a nice replacement for my sprint PCS Sanyo meowphone (which met an untimely demise earlier this year when the company I worked for stopped paying the phone bill.)

Now that I know how much it sucks, though, I think I'll wait. What the hell is up with Verizon's phone selection, anyway? It's got to be the worst of all the major providers.

- A.P.

So you're looking for a home BREW solution?

[tunah]

Please... stop pelting me...

Umm

[Screaming Lunatic]

* To develop applications using the SDK, the additional requirement is: Microsoft Visual Studio (Visual C++) 6.0 (or above) [qualcomm.com]

Visual C++ produces win32/x86 code. But, you don't wannna spend money getting VC++. Not even the educational version that comes pretty cheap. So why can't you use any other compiler that produces win32/x86 code? Such as say, gcc.

There's sample apps that come with the SDK. Why don't you try to compile it with gcc.

At the expense of sounding like a troll. It seems you haven't done your homework. Google is your friend. Usenet is your friend. Such as this thread [google.ca]

Re:Umm

[GoRK]

WTF are you talking about VC++ produces win32/x86 code? Hey look, I hate all things M$ just as much as the next guy, but Visual Studio can pretty much be made to compile for anything using just about any different backend you want with a little configuration. You can even backend gcc with it and cross compile for Linux/PPC with it if you wanted to (doubtful anyone has even attempted to do something so ridiculous.) And, even though I don't own or use it, it's a pretty featureful IDE from what I've seen.

visual basic, visual C++ free for compiling ARM

[blastedtokyo]

Microsoft gives away 'eMbedded Visual Tools' [microsoft.com] which can compile to ARM devices using C++ or Visual Basic. While the templates are for Windows CE operating systems, you can still compile as processor specific without using the templates.

BREW isn't really for hobbyists

[msponer]

I really like BREW, it's a fun platform to develop for.

Unfortunately, I think its current karma excludes hobbyist developers. The C++/C/Assembly vibe is wonderful and efficient, but it also gives you too much control over the phone for us to reasonably expect the device manufacturers and the carriers to open this up completely. This isn't J2ME where a JVM sticks your code in a sandbox and isolates it from the rest of the phone. You can screw the phone up, maybe even do bad things.

So there are few hoops to jump through if you want to see your application running in your hand. You need a business. That business needs a $400 Verisign certificate (to sign your applications with). You have to register with Qualcomm. You have to mail your phone to them to get reflashed. You need a $1500 compiler.

This is very reasonable process for a business that plans to write software for phones. But not hobbyists. Maybe it's better to think of BREW as a very open and relatively cheap game console platform, rather than a completely free and uncontrolled platform like PalmOS.

Re:BREW isn't really for hobbyists

[afidel]

oooooh I can do bad things to my phone with software. I can assure you that I can do much worse things with a soldering iron =) Programmers need to get over themselves and realize that many areas of programming (such as applets for a phone) are open to just about anyone that took a college prep track in highschool. Qualcomm has stated that they are working to get gcc cross compiler working with BREW both for hobbiests and for professionals who don't want a retarded toolchain, let alone one that costs money. If Qualcomm is smart they will make it as low costs (possibly free) to make applets as they can. Look at Palm and what an active development community, even one psuhed by amatures can do for a platform.

Will no one think of the children?

[cthugha]

From Qualcomm's page linked to by the poster:

In a webinar hosted by Big Talk/Wireless Week

Webinar!? Since when did this monstrosity enter the English language? Who was responsible?

Re:Will no one think of the children?

[Profane Motherfucker]

Probably the fucking webinizers -- those dirty fornicators who take content and webify it.

Re:Will no one think of the children?

[AtariDatacenter]

Actually, they're getting more and more common in the industry. And you know what? I actually think I kind of like them, if they are referring to them in the same way that others have.

Basically, a conference call (for the audio) and then the speaker can go through slides or whatever which are placed in a web page application (with a few side things like a virtual conference room with seating, 'private messages' between participants, feedback indicators (go faster, go slower, have a question, need help).

Webinars are a bit better than conference calls and emailing out a PowerPoint presentation. The probably cost hella more, tho'.

Chasma!

[ColGraff]

If you guys want to see what the state of the art is in BREW development (such as it is), check out www.chasma.net . My friend works there, the lucky [expletive].

Symbian OS?

[trumpetplayer]

I am not familiar with these technologies, but BREW looks to me like the american competitor to the european Symbian OS [symbian.com] (also open and targeting C++ and Java, and with ARM based terminals already available). I say that because current Symbian phones include the Sony-Ericsson P800 [sonyericsson.com] (coming soon) and the Nokia 7650 [nokia.com], although these both have a built in camera. You can download the SDK for each of these phones from each manufacturer site too, but I haven't checked if a compiler is included.

Alex

Drink up

[KevetS]

So, what you're saying is that Europe uses the techno-named Symbian OS and we here in the USA came up with BREW? Nice! Bottoms up!