Learning Latin - Has It Helped You? 120
4/3PI*R^3 asks: "CNN is reporting that Latin is experiencing a revival in schools. The reason - Latin is used in the sciences and technology is based on science. Latin is also useful for registering .US domain names :).
How many Slashdot readers have learned Latin and how has it helped you in your life/career? 'non impediti ratione cogitatonis'"
Primus postus! (Score:5, Funny)
Helps me (Score:4, Funny)
Not nearly worth the effort otherwise.
II AD HADE. (Score:1)
I took Latin (Score:4, Funny)
How many Slashdot readers have learned Latin and how has it helped you in your life/career?
After taking Latin I've started snickering at people who use the objective case for predicate nominatives. Other than that, I don't think it's helped me at all, other than allowing me to get a degree without doing oral recitations in my language class.
Re:I took Latin (Score:2)
Re:I took Latin (Score:1)
Re:I took Latin (Score:2)
"...those bumbling idiots who use a plural pronoun with a singular antecedent!"
Anyone willing to offer a clue to the grammatically-impaired?
Re:I took Latin (Score:3, Informative)
The second refers to the common practice of replacing singular pronouns (he/she) and singular posessive pronouns (his/her) with their plural equivalents (them/their) in a context where gender is unknown. The example given should read "Everyone open his or her book!" since the word 'everyone' is a singular anticedant.
Re:I took Latin (Score:1)
"Everyone, open your books"?
Re:I took Latin (Score:2, Informative)
[crossmyt.com]
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.ht
[crossmyt.com]
http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/s-pinker.ht
[vt.edu]
http://www.english.vt.edu/~grammar/GrammarForWr
roots of english (Score:1)
Re:roots of english (Score:1)
Re:roots of english (Score:1)
I don't think so (Score:5, Interesting)
Not having learned Latin, but being a scientist I can answer a different question -- Have I ever, in my scientific career, wished I had learned Latin? Never.
These urban Latin programs may well work, or may just be a gimmick, but if they are effective I'd suspect it's the everyday uselessness that's effective. The idea of learning something for the pleasure and prestige of learning it is probably unfamiliar to many of the kids in the program, as is the pleasure of hearing something in an unrelated class and realizing they have information to bring to bear on it.
But for following science? Even if that logic held up, you'd be better off learning Greek.
Re:I don't think so (Score:1)
I agree completely. I study Science (CompSci) and Arts (Languages) and only now taking Spanish as one of my 2 language majors I wish I'd continued Latin in school (I studied for 2 years, but could've gone the distance for 6). I think scientific names translate well enough into English and other European languages that Science students need not worry.
Re:I don't think so (Score:1)
Well, that's the one exception that comes to mind -- if you're planning to become a field biologist, it might be genuinely helpful to understand species names.
Re:I don't think so (Score:1)
Re:I don't think so (Score:1)
Re:I don't think so (Score:2, Interesting)
Sure, some things might have their derivations in latin, but you have two choices:
1. learn an occasional new word, that just happens to have its derivations in latin.
2. learn an entirely new language (latin), and expanding your vocabulary of that language to 100s if not 1000s of words, so that you don't occasionally have to do #1, above.
I picked #1.
But hey, I learned a related language that's even more important:
Iay ancay peaksay igpay atinlay!
Dave
useful? no. (Score:1, Informative)
sure the aneid is the defacto latin "teaching tool", but how about somthing vauguely interesting? kids (myself) these days don't have the want (or need) for such devotion to a subject.
oh yeah, and other than SAT vocab, i didn't really see any major advantage, sans being able to walk into nearly any cathedral in europe and be able to read the inscriptions
Re:useful? no. (Score:2)
Re:useful? no. (Score:1, Interesting)
learning latin is beneficial if you **want** to learn latin; you will learn much more that you never would have considered, had you not taken it in the first place. it's kind of like learning c++, would you use it in everyday life outside of coding? no...but wouldn't it teach you immensely in the realm of logical thought processes and problem-solving, and open you up to the world of computers? i would think yes.
It taught me one important thing... (Score:2, Funny)
Translation: Allways wear your under wear (Score:2)
Re:Translation: Allways wear your under wear (Score:5, Informative)
Re:It taught me one important thing... (Score:1)
Other perks (Score:2, Interesting)
theology studies. I was reading the Malius Malificarum earlier this
year and all the foot notes were still in Latin. Any time I was
unsure or questioning the meaning of an important one I would call up
experiment-4578[0] as to the meaning of it. Latin is very helpful in
the areas of theology, medicine, law, and talking to
tall-beautiful-young girls who happen to know it, thus enabling you to
balance Geeky
I have however studied a bit of Ancient Greek[1] and have found even
it to be a very nice language to pick up. But once you learn Greek
you can no longer say "It is all Greek to me". But every skill
acquired means one less thing you can claim ignorance on.
Not that I keep up on these things.
[0] who is fluant in Latin
[1] bible debates are much more fun this way.
Re:Other perks (Score:4, Informative)
A lot of the stuff that's available out there for learning Koine Greek specifically is not that reliable or rigorous. My sister is an evangelical minister and missionary; and although her education has improved over what it once was, at one point early on she was being taught some seriously skewed Greek. She tried to assure me that "logos" meant primarily "word of God".
(Incidentally, I experimented with some Unicode typefaces and page-encoding, and made The Gospel of Matthew [io.com] available from my personal web page [io.com] . The page includes a note with links to some Greek typefaces and tools.)
I would love to have some Latin. At my school (and probably elsewhere), one often hears (to this day, I'm sure) a quote from, I believe, Gertrude Stein:
I've lost most of my Greek, but it made me think a lot more carefuly about language, which was mostly the point. That and having a stronger grasp of some of the writers we read.I have to chuckle at the question of the vocational utility of an aquaintence with Latin. Hell, a large portion of the stuff that one learns in contemporary American universities that supposedly is of vocational utility, isn't. Just getting the degree is the most important thing on a superficial level. On the deeper level, working hard learning how to learn will serve a student well for the rest of his or her life. Learning a classical language, among many other subjects, is a good, challenging endeavor.
q.v. -- sig [sic] (Score:2)
Everyone should at least learn (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:5, Funny)
It's chickenpoxii, you dumbass.
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:1)
so pox can be either pogi or poci
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:2)
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:1)
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:2)
There is no plural for chickenpox, flu, gold or dust in the english language, in exactly the same way that there is no plural for "virus" in latin. You see, It's complete nonsense to talk about such a thing as a "correct" latin pluralization for "virus", in the same way as it's nonsense to talk about the "correct" english pluralization for "water".
It's funny. Laugh. That's why we're talking about it slashdot -- the home of the nonsense conversation.
Re:Everyone should at least learn (Score:1)
Here's an interesting discussion regarding which declension is it? [perl.com]
Utterly useless. (Score:2)
The old rhyme (Score:3, Funny)
as dead as it can be
It killed the ancient Romans
And now it's killing me.
Laughing. (Score:2)
Re:The old rhyme (Score:2)
Pitiful geeks.. latin rules. (Score:5, Insightful)
While I have a strong vocabulary, it never hurts to improve it, and learning latin made learning new words much easier!
It has helped in more ways than I can possibly express.
Definitely worthwhile.
Vocabulary, Vocabulary, Vocabulary. (Score:1)
Not to mention the practical application of raising my SAT score. I was the only person I knew to attend Georgia Tech with a higher verbal score than math. Add to that the fact that I never had to study for a high school vocabulary quiz and I think it paid off rather well.
Re:Vocabulary, Vocabulary, Vocabulary. (Score:2)
Re:Vocabulary, Vocabulary, Vocabulary. (Score:1)
how about a device for walking
or even broader
a device for transportation
now we're getting somewhere.
It's not foolproof, but it does get you in the neighborhood.
Re:Vocabulary, Vocabulary, Vocabulary. (Score:1)
Re:Pitiful geeks.. latin rules. (Score:1)
Was Latin Useful? (Score:1)
SAT Bonus (Score:3, Insightful)
If you're looking for the perfect language, learn Esperanto. Its hella 1337.
Re:SAT Bonus (Score:2)
exactly!
except Esperanto can be learned much more rapidly because it is so goddamn logical.
Helps with Languages, Not with Science (Score:5, Insightful)
Where Latin has helped me is Languages. I think it helped me immensely with Languages. Particularly with romance languages but even others. I really had to learn grammar and structure with Latin and I gained a facility with pronunciation of new languages.
I would suggest, however, that an introduction to Latin - maybe one year - is enough. After that it is diminishing returns for a (mostly) dead language. Move on to a modern spoken language after an intro to Latin (unless you really love it).
Re:That's what studying a language does (Score:3, Insightful)
Agreed, but I think Latin is particularly good because (a) it seems to have more structure than both English and the romance languages I (marginally) know, forcing me to really learn grammar and abstract some concepts and (b) it is immediately applicable to said romance languages, a not so small subset of the languages to which I am exposed.
I don't know German but I have the impression it is also full of structure and grammar that I didn't get in English (e.g. declensions), so maybe it's just that I haven't had enough exposure.
Disclaimer: I took only one year of Latin and that was 20 years ago.
Good for them (Score:4, Insightful)
Since chat room speak is on the rise in more formal settings, I think a focus on the core of our language will help stem such idiocy. Not to mention the portability of its vocabulary and concepts such as declensions and noun gender into other languages.
I learned portugues while in Brazil.... (Score:5, Insightful)
I believe having learned another language, I have a better grasp on getting ideas across and even communicate technical issues. Also, I know how it feels to not be understood and probably even more so the frustration of not understanding. What someone else is saying.
It's a pretty humbling experience being 22 years old and talking at a 3-year-old level with adults.
Re:I learned portugues while in Brazil.... (Score:3, Funny)
"Why are you wanting me to be talking like a bot?"
Re:I learned portugues while in Brazil.... (Score:2)
Learning another language (Score:1)
You only speak like you're 10 years old, but your reasoning ability is much more advanced (assuming that you're older than 10!). The worst part is that people may assume that you are less intelligent, because you don't speak their language as well as they do.
Be more sensitive to people who are not native speakers of your language.
So much of language is culture, I think it is less useful to study latin, as there is less culture attached (don't flame me for this)to it than say Hungarian. Expressions make up the beauty of languages. Turkish is notourious for its descriptive swearing. Latin seems to be alive as a scientific cataloging method and a neat classroom parlor trick. Still, it's better than nothing, and it will definitely help in learning another language. The romans did have some influence on the rest of the world.
Definitely not QED.
Standardized testing (Score:2)
Would I do it again? Yes. Even though I transferred to Spanish after my requisite two years, it was most certainly not useless or boring - quite the contrary. The literature (if you read primary sources) is incredibly fascinating.
How many Romans?... Oh Oh, Romani (Score:5, Informative)
Latin not only gave me a clearer sense of how language and grammar in general, but a method of thinking not present in modern English. The whole concept of cases and conjugation can be relatively new to today's students.
The reading [and writing] of Latin requires a systematic mental process much akin to writing code, I've found. Much like Latin, code can often have blocks in which the order of bits don't matter much, but there are good and reasonable conventions which prevail. Latin is like this, and so is good code. I'm still a student, so I can't be sure of work experience, but Latin has increased my general academic ability greatly, and code and logic tremendously.
Of course, there are other benfits. Like that scene in Life of Brian (which we actually convinced our teacher to show in class) makes much more sense to a Latin student. Though, domum doesn't take a locative, it has a locative. *sigh* They did do pretty well though.
-Tevye
programming in latin (Score:4, Informative)
The interesting stuff about programming in latin is that the order of the words doesn't matter any more. In english or most other languages ``The boy gave the dog the food'' has a different meaning than ``The food gave the boy the dog'', but in latin (and in perligata) a similar exchange would have no effect on the meaning of the statement.
Fh
Ps: The dog&food example was stolen from the Perligata web page, just go check it.
Re:How many Romans?... Oh Oh, Romani (Score:2)
Agree must I will. Your thinking changes learning languages by, and is this a thing good. My improved communication nouns I declining by.
Re:How many Romans?... Oh Oh, Romani (Score:2, Informative)
My communication by declining nouns I improved / By declining nouns my communication I improved. It isn't that far from English. Just because they could, grammatically, change word order without altering the semantics, don't think that they did it all the time. Habit meant that word order was generally fairly standard, and altered only for stylistic effect, as in English - see my examples above. English, ancient Greek and Latin are good examples of the flexibility of grammatic rules being used to give a richer scope of expression. Your examples would sound as odd in Latin as they do in English, and would make people (persons
Latin II (Score:2, Interesting)
Nope...never used it...except for this :) (Score:1)
Re:Nope...never used it...except for this :) (Score:1)
Igpay Atinlay? (Score:2)
Took 2 years in junior high (Score:2)
I took 2 years of Latin at the beginning of junior high (7-8 grade). Since my first language is French, my relation to Latin is a bit stronger than for English speaking people, because French is closer to Latin than English (even if it's not that far away either). I can say it helped me to learn Spanish, too. And if i ever was to learn Italian.
As for the method of learning, my school used the Cambridge method rather than the "rosa rosa rosam, rosae rosae rosa, rosae rosae rosas, rosarum rosis rosis" method. Vocabulary and history (that of Pompei more specifically) were tied together in small 20 pages fascicles, so it wasn't as dry as some people told me from their experience. I enjoyed it, plus we convinced the teacher to organize a trip to Pompei in our second year.
Poor Quintus and Cerberus.. (Score:1)
Re:Poor Quintus and Cerberus.. (Score:1)
The main character was named Caecilius, not Cerber. But his son was named Quintus, so it's probably the same thing.
Bad teachers (Score:1)
Latin taught me how to deal with inanity, how to teach myself, and how one goes about trying to get teachers fired. (which by the way is damn near impossible for anything short of child abuse)
This guy was straight from Sicily, and he was all full of himself about how the Italian school system was so much tougher, and that we were so stupid for being bad at Latin. He wouldn't accept the fact that it might have something to do with his English abilities, bad teaching, and fascist teaching style.
Lessons learned? Knowing your subject is one thing. Being able to teach it is another. A good teacher needs one skill just as much as the other.
Two phrases of Latin I will always remember. (Score:2)
and
"Magnum phallum habeo."
Tim
When in doubt, ask a Centurion for help! (Score:5, Funny)
Centurion: What's this then? Romanes eunt domus. People called Romanes they go
the house?
Brian: It, it says 'Romans go home'.
Centurion: No it doesn't. What's latin for 'Roman'? Come on...
Brian: aaah.
Centurion: Come on.
Brian: Ah! Romanus?
Centurion: Goes like?
Brian: Annus?
Centurion: Vocative plural of 'annus' is?
Brian: Anni?
Centurion: Romani. [He crosses out the 'es' and writes in 'i'.]
Eunt? What is eunt?
Brian: Go.
Centurion: Conjugate the verb 'to go'.
Brian: Uh. Ire - Uh... eo, is, it, imus, itis, eunt.
Centurion: So eunt is?
Brian: Ah, Uh, Third person plural of present indicative. They go.
Centurion: But Romans go home is an order, so you must use the?
--------[The centurian lifts Brian: by the sideburns... nasty, eh?]
Brian: The imperative.
Centurion: Which is?
Brian: Ahm. Oh, oh, um... I, I.
Centurion: How many Romans?
Brian: Ah. Plural, plural... ite, ite.
Centurion: Ite. [He again corrects the writing on the wall.]
Domus? Nomonative? 'Go home'? This is motion towards, isn't it, boy?
Brian: Dative, sir.
--------[The Centurian takes out his weapon, and holds it to Brian's throat.]
Ahh. No, not dative, not the dative, sir. Oh, Ah. Uh.
The accusative accusative. Ah, Domum, sir. Ab domum! Ah! Oooh! Ah!
Centurion: Except that 'domus' takes the?
Brian: The locative, sir.
Centurion: Which is?
Brian: Domum. Aaah! ah.
--------[Again, the writing is ammended.]
Centurion: Domum... um... Understand?
Brian: Yes, sir.
Centurion: Now write it out a hundred times.
Brian: Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caeser, sir.
Centurion: Hail Caeser. And if it's not done by sunrise, I'll cut your balls
off.
Brian: Ooh, thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Hail Caeser and everything, sir.
Oh. Mmm!
Latin is the assembly language of human languages (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Latin is the assembly language of human languag (Score:1)
I did not understand some of what they were trying to teach me in English, until then.
The article did not say if Latin was the only choice in school systems that had dropped all other languages or not. The chance to see the similarities and contrasts between languages, as early as possible (before language lock-in) would have been useful.
---
As a side note - I have heard that Japanese may be one of the few modern languages that has lot a Latin-like structure?
Semper ubi sub ubi (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Semper ubi sub ubi (Score:2)
Amazing the stuff I remember from college!
How it helped me (Score:1)
Also, in 9th grade, Mrs. Toronto insisted we memorize the entire Aeneid. I think we did a page a day, and it lasted about a week before the class revolted. However, to this day, I can tell you: "Arma virumque cano, Italiam fato profugus." Which (I hope) is the first line or two of the Aeneid. It has no practical use, but whenever I talk with long lost Latin classmates, I usually work it into the conversation and we all fall down laughing.
It helped me pick up Spanish MUCH faster than I probably would have had I not taken Latin, and I feel comfortable saying that I'd probably pick up French similarly quickly (though how much of this I owe to Latin is debatable).
Latina scientem dat (Score:4, Interesting)
Generally people are impressed but I always feel like they seem me the way computer science people think of someone who still uses their Apple II because they think it's inherently better.
Granted, Latin is hard. Also, it's not like other languages where you can go somewhere far away but still know how to ask where the bathroom is. But the advantages of Latin are totally different.
I think they are similar to the kind of things you would learn from studying logic for example. Learning Latin doesn't have direct practical benefits but it has so many secondary benefits.
First of all, I think vocabulary is one of the biggest. I've always had a large vocabulary but since studying Latin it seems an order of magnitude larger. I think this is because I have some greater degree of fluency, that is I have more confidence that I understand words more fully so I'm not afraid to use unfamiliar ones.
Secondly, Latin teaches grammar. This is probably the most noticable (and annoying) benefit. Our education system is failing to teach kids proper grammar. If you disagree pay attention to the next person you talk to and listen for adverb/adjective confusion. If you don't know those words, I rest my case. Every day, several times a day, I have to resist the urge to strangle someone because they make mistakes that are so blatant to me. This did not happen before I studied Latin.
Finally, I'd say that simply because of it's complexity learning Latin is helpfull to students. A great deal of discipline is required to memorize the paradigmatic forms. I can definately see how learning forms would help mathmatical reasoning, etc.
Anyway to sum up I think you need to look at how learning Latin (or Greek for that matter) affects the way a person thinks in order to see the benefits. If you look for direct benefits to knowing the actual language you won't find many other than reading inscriptions once in a while (which is acutally pretty fun, and it makes you look really smart)
Re:Latina scientem dat (Score:1)
I have the same neurotic symptoms that you do, but they have somewhat faded since i started learning Putonghua, which is the opposite of Latin (no inflections, no tempus, no sexus but very heavy reliance on word placement). Our Romance languages can handle this continuing "degradation", and what is considered bad grammar today is just normal tomorrow. It has always been so, and it is just evolution.
Re:Latina scientem dat (Score:2)
tech--no. biology--yes (Score:1)
but for those non-engineering sciences like biology or medical related specialties, latin basics are essential for precisely describing a location or giving instructions. (i.e. imagine a surgeon saying "I just cut off your #4 valve in your heart. To do this you just lift the rib, cut some fat off and stick a balloon in it." Instead they can give precise descriptions using big words like anterior).
Career? CARREER????? (Score:2)
Career?!!? CARREER? You were trying to use a dead language in your CARREER?
Gee whiz, man!!! You were supposed to take that Latin Knowledge and become a Latin LoverJUST LIKE ME [geocities.com]!!! The chicks get all giggly when I speak in dead toungues...
Some people don't get it...
Social benefits, personal reward, ... (Score:1)
Knowing Latin was crucial in Europe in the middle ages, just as English is somewhat crucial today for those who plan to go abroad. Just more so, especially if one wanted to be a priest or another scholar. After the birth of national states, when national languages were being used in favor of Latin, Latin was still essential for those who planned on an academic career. Latin has been required for higher education into the 1900s in some places. Latin was also used as a neutral language in diplomatic circles, until French overtook that role in the 1700s.
Because of all this, Latin has been used as a social tool, as a means to to differentiate the commons from the elite. But the commons could also use Latin as a springboard to higher social status, for instance by having access to education, becoming a doctor or whatever. There is no such social benefits with learning Latin today, or at least they are minimal.
Instead, the reward is a personal one, of achievement, a mental kick of mastering something pretty difficult, and having established connections with the past, for two thousand years of history. It is meaningful to converse privately with the old Roman scholars and philosophers, and it gives satisfaction knowing those citations and quotations some people throw to show off.
Latin is a key to understanding much of European history and the development of European languages (English has borrowed heavily from Latin), but it is not essential in any career but linguistic ones. Look at it as a value-added piece of knowledge that may give some (social) bonus here and there.
Latin, Greek,... (Score:1)
Latin is the language that is most often used by lawmakers, it was the Greeks who where the scientists...
Anyway, after my first year Latin I quit, and I do not think that I missed it for any course that I ever followed.
I think its value lies more in the fact that it learns people to persist, rather than to learn logic.
If you are into languages, learning Latin and Greek should possibly be a good exercise.
But I have had enough science and engineering courses, and there is no way that learning Latin there can be helpful.
Hooked on Latin worked for me! (Score:3, Funny)
There were no snooty Romans alive to correct me on my pronunciation -- and in fact my teacher told me that there were two ways to pronounce things, Roman-style and medieval-style.
Then, in college, I tested out of Spanish because I knew enough Latin that I only needed a little bit of Spanish cramming to answer the placement exam questions. (That, and a Mu Alpha Theta career, and lots of standardized tests. If public schools have taught me anything, it's how to fill in a bubble sheet for a multiple-guess test.)
So I didn't end up speaking any languages other than English fluently, which sucks, but I did get my linguistics degree (think of it as a blessed +2 scroll of learn language named "I know Kung Fu") and went on to grad school for my librarian union card.
Hmm. Considering the fan noise coming from my computer, maybe I should have studied American Sign Language.
It certainly has helped... in unexpected ways (Score:2)
It also helped with foreign languages (French, Spanish and other 'Romance' languages, obviously) and while I was working in Germany, and I didn't know the German word for something and the guy I was speaking to didn't know the English, we used the latin word!
Plus it can make you seem highly educated
I recommend Lingua Latina Occasionibus Omnibus [amazon.co.uk] as a humourous primer to the language
Mark
Latin for programming? (Score:1)
Mind you I enjoyed latin. Not quite so sure about the greek though.
Re:Latin for programming? (Score:1, Interesting)
latin helped me write a Perl program (Score:4, Interesting)
A:Latin helped me write a Perl program!
I used my knowledge of Latin to help me write the Name of a Number [isthe.com] Perl / CGI program. Now I know how to determine the English name of any integer [isthe.com] of any size. While some dictionaries list names of numbers as large as 10^33 (one decillion) or even 10^63 (one vigintillion), it took a study of Latin before I was able to determine the name of numbers such as:
You never know when you may need to give the English name of a large integer. It was almost 20 years after I discovered what was then (in 1979) the largest known prime 2^23209-1 [isthe.com] before I knew how to pronounce the English name of its decimal representation [isthe.com]. If I had studied Latin in more detail when I was in grade school then I would have been ready to answer the frequently asked question: "How do you pronounce it?"
1/2 :-)
latin is a dead language (Score:1, Redundant)
Latin is a dead language,
As dead as dead can be.
It killed all the Romans,
And now it's killing me.
Utor, fruor, fungor, potior and vescor... (Score:3, Funny)
Arma virumque cano
Trojae qui primis ab oris
Littora, uh, uh saevae memorem Junonis ab orem
Multa quoque et bello passus dum conderet urbam
Uh, inferetque deos latio genus unde latinam
Um, um,
Albanique patres atque alte moenea Roma...
Or something like that.
And there you have it. Everything I got out of four years of Latin. Everything.
Latin was Proposed as Lingua Franca for the EEC (Score:1)
I've done some quick searching on the net to see if I could find any references to this, but they seem to passed beyond the pail and into the classification of nothing more than a historical footnote at this point.
Re:Latin was Proposed as Lingua Franca for the EEC (Score:1)
Latin is a way of thinking... (Score:3, Interesting)
The reason latin helps me in my career - I took 6 years of Latin at a Dutch secondary school - is because it forces you to be extremely precise in the way you think. Modern languages allow a certain amount of ambiguity - English notoriously so - in the way you express yourself. Latin - like code - requires you to specify exactly what you mean.
The cool thing was that - after a few years - latin became second nature. It was no longer necessary to laboriously parse each word to make sense of the sentence, instead, the meaning started to become clear from the whole construct. I have found this to be the case with code as well - after a while, you no longer worry about the syntax of a given language, but rather move up a level to looking at the architecture as a whole.
Would I recommend Latin to anyone who has the option ? Only if you persevere. The first couple of years were tedious and frustrating; there's a lot of memorizing of stuff that appears to be complex for its own sake, and you have to work very hard to get even small results.
After you have the basics though, it becomes very rewarding - all western european languages become easier, the clarity of thought Latin brings with it pays handsome dividends, and we got to translate texts that were basically pornographic. There's nothing better than being 16 years old and having to translate porn for your homework. Oh, well, maybe there is....
The link with science and law is more about the absolute clarity of thought required than about the fact there's a bunch of words those disciplines borrowed or inherited from a dead language...
my experience (Score:2)
When I began to learn Russian however, the grammar concepts were so familiar already. (Russian has a much more pure Latin heritage than English, and very similar grammar rules). So in a sense it was useful, accidentally.
Latin and Greek in English (Score:2)
Most people underestimate the effort required (Score:1)
People advance the following fallacious arguments for studying Latin:
1. Latin and Greek are used in the sciences.
They're not. A few words and phrases, which you pick up without any real effort, are used. You don't need to learn Latin for that, any more than you need to learn Italian to say "Ciao!" when you take your leave of someone.
2. Knowledge of Latin makes it easier to learn other southern European languages
To acquire reasonable fluency in a foreign language, starting after age 10, a bright person needs to work at it hard for at least four years. The vast majority of English-speaking people never become fluent in another language. If you want to learn Spanish, the best way to that goal is to study Spanish (duh!), not to spend 4 years on a detour via Latin, the most likely result of which will be that you'll never actually get around to learning any Spanish.
Re:Most people underestimate the effort required (Score:2)
Living in a country where the language is spoken is many times more effective than just studying books and recordings - I think your experience confirms that. So obviously it shortens the time needed.
Automated Translation of Latin (mildly OT) (Score:2)
Every now and then (mostly in writing science fiction), I need a term translated into Latin. Google [google.com] and Babblefish, [babblefish.com] offer many languages, but no Latin. Searching elsewhere, I have found many online Latin dictionaries, but since a lot of Latin's difficulty is in the formation of words for tense, possesives,etc. (see the much cited Life of Brian sketch) this is worthless to me.
So, does anyone know of any online Latin translating engines akin to Babblefish or Google? Any information would be appreciated.
Latin Has Helped Immeasurably (Score:2)