Built-in Kitchen Computer? 87
shaun_gordon asks: "As a long-time geek and first-time home buyer, my wife are planning on a complete kitchen remodel. As part of the remodel, I want to put a computer into the kitchen to use for looking up recipes, controling the stereo, watching movies, etc. My only requirements are that it be Internet connected. My wife's requirements are that it be hidden. I am currently thinking of a flat screen that would fold down from under a cabinet and a keyboard in a drawer that pulls out. Has anyone had any experience installing something like this? Any recomendations on building or buying the integrated display? Anything else that I should consider?" Those looking into doing something like this may find a laptop with an 802.11-based wireless network adapter a better, and possibly cheaper, alternative for this kind of feature. Webpads might be another viable alternative, assuming they ever hit the consumer market at a worthwhile price. What suggestions might you have?
Audrey (Score:4, Insightful)
Durable, too-- my 3-year old hasn't broken ours yet!
And cheap. Also very important. Hunt around with liquidators or on ebay, should be well under $100 including the USB ethernet (unless the built-in modem suffices... modem-modem maybe, if you want to score extra geek points)
Re:Audrey (Score:2)
Re:Audrey (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Audrey (Score:1)
And if you couldn't guess by the domain name, there is tons of hacking info too.
Re:Audrey (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Audrey (Score:2)
Re:Audrey (Score:1)
Re:Audrey (Score:2)
Some links: Here's my caller ID thing [ecloud.org] and audreyhacking.com [audreyhacking.com] will tell you everything else you need to know.
Re:Audrey (Score:2)
Eventually I want to figure out how to use a CueCat with it (it has USB ports and I have a USB CueCat) and also a OneWire network adapter so I can control the sprinkler system in the garden window with it.
As for having messy fingers, you just have to be disciplined enough not to use the touchscreen without washing up first. Better have the recipe scrolled into position before you start getting dirty.
iCEBOX (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:iCEBOX cost $3k (Score:1)
Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price
$2,995.00
iBook (Score:4, Interesting)
sounds like a fun project (Score:4, Informative)
Rack (Score:3, Insightful)
Monitor image [dell.com]
Re:Rack (Score:2)
The list price is $2,195. But if you can afford a 10 piece copper-core set of All-Clad [allclad.com] pots and pans, maybe you are fine paying for a nice looking kitchen computer.
Keyboard (Score:3, Informative)
No, use this keyboard instead! (Score:3, Informative)
I just spilled wonton soup on mine and it's still typing fine!
My kids played tug-o-war with it the first day I had it... still works, though admittedly the kids are all under 50 pounds US.
And, your wife can use it to open those tough pickle jar lids, too. No, I'm not kidding.
Re:Keyboard (Score:1)
Other requirements (Score:4, Informative)
Keyboards (Score:4, Insightful)
I would try to avoid the need for a keyboard. Unless your kitchen is huge, space will be at a premium so who wants to fill up an entire drawer with a keyboard. I would also be concerned about how practical it would be to use a keyboard with food covered hands. Finally, anything that you use in a kitchen needs to be easy to clean, both for cosmetic as well as sanitary reasons.
A standard keyboard just seems impractical in a kitchen environment.
Re:Keyboards (Score:1)
Still, I agree that a touchscreen type device is the way to go on this one.
Mirrors but hopefully no smoke? (Score:3, Interesting)
Matt
Re:Mirrors but hopefully no smoke? (Score:1)
Re:Mirrors but hopefully no smoke? (Score:2)
Um, no. You'd just need to physically rotate the screen 180 degrees to get the correct orientation. Occam's razor and all that.
Re:Mirrors but hopefully no smoke? (Score:1, Informative)
Most likely, you'd need to flip in software somehow.
What timing! See today's Wall Street Journal. (Score:2, Informative)
Who needs a screen and keyboard? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Who needs a screen and keyboard? (Score:1)
We just went through this.. (Score:3, Informative)
What we wound up doing is buying a older used laptop on eBay for about $400 and putting a wireless card in it that goes to my WAP11 in the office. We just leave the laptop on the counter all the time, with a piece of wood underneath it. The wood will prevent the countertop from discoloring from the heat of the laptop's CPU and it also raises the laptop off the counter a bit, so if something spills on the counter, the laptop isn't necessarily going to fry (although a direct hit would still take it out).
So there you have it. It works great for my wife and she uses it everyday. It's much less intrusive than one might think since a CRT isn't involved. I guess if you must have a truly hidden option, then you could look into an iMac [apple.com].
Enjoy!
Re:Slashdot, the short-short version. (Score:2)
--
Not a new idea (Score:2, Interesting)
As much as I hate grammar posts... (Score:2, Funny)
How many wives have you got?
Re:As much as I hate grammar posts... (Score:1)
Married Geek warning. (Score:5, Funny)
Non-geek traduction:
_They_ just bought a new house.
Beeing geek _he_ wants to put a computer inside the kitchen, too (beside the living room, the toilets and the bedchambers). He's trying to make us believe that the recipe part is important, but what he really wants is watching movies.
Beeing female, _she_ wants to organize the kitchen to her liking, and just do not give a damn about the computer: note the "hidden" requirement.
Marketing conclusion: your primary problem here is not technical. What you are into is WR (Wife Relationship), because the thing better have to be:
Technical conclusion: everything short of an armored version of this [dmpamerica.com] won't do. Equip it with a disposable keyboard, screen and mouse. Oh, and you'd better tailor the software you put there to please her, or that machine won't last long. A kitchen is indeed not a computer-friendly environmment !
Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:4, Insightful)
"My wife can use it to look up recipes"
This is one case where dead trees win every time.
Cookbook=extremely portable, relatively cheap, you can scribble notes on it, bookmark your place with a spoon, not affected by excess heat, won't crash, etc.
Unless you're actually going to get the computer to cook the damn food (which might work with todays' CPUs running so hot), it's a dumb idea, just like it was 30 years ago.
Before remodeling, try cooking w. a few recipes on a laptop, just to get the "feel" of it. Save yourself from wasting $$$ on remodeling twice.
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:1)
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:2)
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:4, Insightful)
I'll disagree on this. I would agree if the only recipes one had available were ones that had been typed in by oneself. However, with the big bad Internet available, it's very feasible to obtain recipes that you will never see in print (unless you print them out of course - just try fitting those into a traditional recipe book!).
I do agree that a test drive with a laptop is a great idea to prove things out. She may very well decide that the laptop is the ideal anyway. See my other post for why.
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:1)
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:3, Informative)
I tend to cook a lot for myself. Most recipes come from the Joy of Cooking, which is pretty much the only cookbook one needs. As for things not found in that book, I look up recipes on the internet and always print them. I can safely say I'd never ever ever ever ever want to try to look at a monitor while cooking because it is much easier to shuffle paper around than it is to scroll, click, and wait to load. That and if I modify a recipe it is trivial to scratch in the change on my printout. that's much easier to do when your hands are covered in oil than finding you place and typing it in.
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:2)
I don't know about putting a full-fledged computer in the kitchen. I've got two Audreys that will be integrated into my home automation rig when I finish creating the web interface. One is destined for my kitchen. I wanted the Audrey because I can take it out easily to keep it clean (i.e., avoid the greasy film that gets on everything from frying, and the flour film from using a mixer). I wouldn't permanently install anything that wasn't specifically ruggedized for a kitchen or damp/dirty environment.
If I *had* to put in a full-fledged PC, though, I'd get the smallest case I could find (like a Shuttle) and tuck it away in a cabinet with decent seals around the door, filtered ventilation holes and maybe its own fan. For the display, I'd suspend a fold-down LCD under a cabinet and fashion some sort of removable cover to completely enclose it when it was in the up position. Run the cables where necessary-- including a USB extender cable that is mounted under the cabinet with the LCD-- so your input device can be removed and stowed when not in use. If someone makes one of those waterproof keyboards with a built-in touchpad or other pointing device, that'd be just the ticket.
~Philly
Re:Looking up recipes=WTF!?! (Score:1)
There's an old 386 laptop in my kitchen, connected with a serial line to a freebsd box. I use lynx to find recipes with the ingredients I want to use and cook following the directions read off the display.
Before I had the laptop, I used to look up some recipes on my desktop and print them out. I still like to use a cookbook now and then, but I get most recipes online.
Don't forget the barcode stuff (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, and maybe put the computer CRT under thick glass so you could use it as a chopping board.
Whatever you do, try to make it accessible.
Re:Don't forget the barcode stuff (Score:2, Interesting)
Use it to track what you buy and what you use, and there are all kinds of things you could do with it, if you're willing to get in the habit of scanning everything -
* Automatically generate shopping lists to download to your PDA (or if you want to be really geeky, tie it in to netgrocer and let it automatically reorder whatever you're low on)
* Keep track of nutritional info for the meals you make
* Plan your menu for the week based on what food you have in the house
And you can still store recipies to boot!
Of course, like the rest of my projects, it's still not done yet...
Re:Don't forget the barcode stuff (Score:2)
The second barrier would be to remember to scan the empty package before discarding it, but having mutiple scanners placed in strategic areas would take care of that.
The inverse (Score:2)
Uuhhh... so you want a computer built into the kitchen, or you want a kitchen built into the computer? The former is easy, the latter not quite there yet. Though, if you have a dual Pentium 4 Xeon or Athlon MP box, you could cook breakfast [theregister.co.uk] while fragging.
Female Geeks (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Female Geeks (Score:2)
I've got a lease with an option to buy on a female geek unit right now.
She's not allowed near *my* kitchen. To be cliche, she could burn water. Even in the microwave.
Perhaps newer models have 1337 cooking skillz, but I have a substantial investment in my current model and wouldn't want to part with it just yet.
We'll see once the '03s come out, though.
Re:Female Geeks (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Female Geeks (Score:1)
I hate going out on a limb like this, but (assuming the huisband can't cook) why does your husband even need to have this kind of wife? Part of the benifits about having a wife (I am married too) is the cooking part and making the beds. Otherwise why not stay girlfriend and boyfriend? And if there is no love, why not just get an escort? Escort would be much cheaper and easier than having a woman nagging you to clean up, go to bed with her, and buy here shit.
Anyways, they are both geeks, I woudl assume both make a decent salary. Then why not hire a cook or always go to resturants? The whole computer in the kitcken can be avoided.
touch screen thin client (Score:4, Informative)
You'll need VGA and serial connections to make it work. Any random sub-$100 motherboard/CPU combo should cover your needs there, just grab the cheapest you can find on pricewatch. You'll also need an ethernet card that has a boot PROM socket.
I would mount the motherboard on stand-offs in the back of a cabinet, or maybe behind some (short) drawers. Put a wire cage over it so you don't accidentally shove some tin cans into it or something (ouch!), and it will have more than adequate ventilation.
An industrial keyboard is a good idea as well, I would look for a mini keyboard as opposed to a full sized one, since it would be easier to hide in a drawer. If you're mostly just browsing, you probably won't need the keyboard that much.
Of course, you'll also need a Linux box to act as a server. If you don't have one you'd have to add the cost of a hard drive, but I don't expect that would break the bank.
Anyway, that's how I would do it. The only thing visible would be the LCD touchscreen, and most of them are easy enough on the eyes for even my wife! It's bound to be more aesthetically pleasing than some of your regular kitchen appliances, anyway.
Not for recipes (Score:5, Insightful)
Once you get past this, you'll have a lot more fun. The real value will be the non-kitchen related activities, as you mention, watching movies for example. You can do a lot make having a computer in the kitchen useful and expandable.
1) Include a cheap webcam and microphone. By building this in now, you won't have difficulty adding it when you want to do videoconferencing over the home network ("Honey, come out of the Server Dungeon, dinner's ready!)
2) Do everything you can to make it accessible to someone with a quarter-inch-thick layer of raw hamburger, bread crumbs, and egg clinging to their fingers. This is the biggest challenge. Either you invent a contactless way of typing and mousing, or find typing and pointing devices that can be easily cleaned. Touch-screen is out. I've seen too many monitors smeared with pizza and fried chicken grease, and that was just in an office. Touchpad devices do work if a thin layer of material is between the surface and the user's finger; you could use a piece of thin, tough white plastic (less than 1/16th inch) and seal it into one side of the keyboard tray. If it's waterproof, it can be wiped with a soapy rag like the rest of the kitchen.
3) Include a TV-and-radio-tuner capable video card. You've just knocked out two devices that you might one day want to have in the kitchen.
A few good ideas for using (and perhaps selling) the computer: Webcam in baby's room allows Mom to cook dinner and keep an eye on the kid. Grandma's also watching, and Mom is getting some input over AOL-IM on that favorite dish you keep asking for. The radio's on, or maybe MP3s are streaming from your server. And, just maybe, the computer holds a database of recipies.
I'm starting to envy you. Must...buy...house...make kitchen computer...
Re:Not for recipes (Score:2)
Touch-screen is out.
You provide the solution here:
Touchpad devices do work if a thin layer of material is between the surface and the user's finger; you could use a piece of thin, tough white plastic (less than 1/16th inch) and seal it into one side of the keyboard tray. If it's waterproof, it can be wiped with a soapy rag like the rest of the kitchen.
You can do the exact same thing to a touchscreen, just use clear plastic instead of opaque. In many cases, the clear plastic will actually be easier to find than the white plastic.
Additionally, a touch screen is much easier to sell to a non-geek wife than a solution that will make it look like there is a computer in the kitchen, which any sort of external pointing device will definately do. It was quite clearly stated in the article that it must not look like there is a computer in the kitchen.
Re:Not for recipes (Score:2)
Not to mention that touchscreens are very expensive, and external USB-PS/2 touchpads are not.
Touchpads use capacitive sensing, so they can work through a layer of something. I still don't know if a thin plastic card would do the trick, my experience is based on using a touchpad through a piece of paper.
Also, using a touchscreen can be tiring if it's not the primary input method. You have to raise your hand up off the keyboard and tap the screen whenever you want to move the cursor.
Previous Slashdot story (Score:3, Informative)
I'd still love to have a kitchen system that would combine a recipe database, grocery list, ingredients inventory, meal planning programs, etc. The individual components all exist, but I don't know of any project that has linked them all together. A console like that in the kitchen would be wonderful.
Try a Cappuccino Machine (Score:2, Interesting)
Networked appliances (Score:1)
DINK (Score:1)
What about an iMac? (Score:2)
Glass Counter (Score:3, Interesting)
This solves a couple of issues with other solutions. First, you can use and replace all parts with standard equipment. It keeps the thing completely hidden unless you are looking for it... it looks nice. It is as cheap or expensive as you want... that's what I would do.
Make sure you get a special saw blade for your counter top as normal blades will chip it.
You can run your network cable underneath your cabinat and through your floor, if you have a basement/crawspace. Shouldn't be too hard to install power either... (my garbage disposal is broken... thus I have a spare power outlet...)
I think I'm going to build this.
I have seen a computer like this... (Score:1)
The MIT prof who has this got it because he has bifocals, and was sick of tilting his head back to look at the screen. When he's not computing, he has a flat, uncluttered desktop.
Free advice (worth every penny): do *not* use up a cupboard for this. Destroy a kitchen table to hold it instead. You will never have enough cupboard space, nobody does.
You could try this... (Score:3, Informative)
Something small? Go with the Via C3 Mini-ITX (Score:3, Informative)
For more info, check out the unofficial source of mini-itx goodness... Mini-ITX.com [mini-itx.com].
Of course, there is still the issue of keyboard, waterproofing, touchscreens, and all that. But getting a nice, cool-running, system that fits in a 7"x7" square is a good start.
A few other ideas (Score:3, Informative)
Also, if you can hack this, set up a palm organizer or similar to act as a wireless remote. Sort of a rich-man's X10. (Even better, get an X10 array in your kitchen.) Don't ask me how this would be done, but having this handy would be optimal, especially if you're going to wire your kitchen to be controlled from the computer. (Perhaps future technology or a few hacks could explain how to control your stove's variable controls from your palm.)
And last, a low-tech idea - if you have the money, get a floor sink/drain. (See also the drip pan for the keyboard above.) An ideal assembly would have it recessed obscurely behind the cabinets, and accessible if you have to clean it - if the wife doesn't want a computer visible in the kitchen, she won't want something like this visible, as this is typically an industrial application. (I'd recommend directly underneath your kitchen sink - this way, the sink can be configured to drain into the floor sink. It's not unlike a typical restaurant or retail setup, so if you've ever worked for (say) McDonald's you probably know how this is done.) The rationale is simple: if you spill, rather than spending 20 minutes mopping it up with a sponge, all you have to do is spend a couple of minutes mopping it into the floor sink. Just make sure you pour water in it once every week to keep the odor down, or let the main sink/dishwasher/etc. just drain to it, but most importantly, keep it clean lest it backs up all over your new kitchen floor. (You can get commercial drain cleaners for this last bit, but you're looking at using a spoonful of drain cleaner once per week to keep it clear.)
Wireless laptop, for example Mac and Airport (Score:2, Insightful)
No need to hide it (Score:2)
I use it all the time for watching tv or listening to music while I'm cooking, or to chat with some friends while waiting for the odd 5 minutes that some recieps call for. I don't use it to store recipes, but I do use it to look up recipes online. Besides, if you area true geek, you will have the recipes hosted on your own webserver
If it has to be hidden, build a cabnet where the monitor goes and have it able to open up to see the monitor when you are going to use it. Be careful of ventilation, but that woudl be the only concern I can think of, and that isn't important for LCD monitors.
Waterproof "fasionable" keyboards (Score:3, Informative)
I've thought of this as well, but my stickler is trying to find a mouse that is waterproof. It would probably be optical, but with a sealed lens cover, and a completely rubber topside with buttons underneath the rubber.
Be careful... (Score:1)
LG internet refrigerator (Score:3, Informative)
Saw one locally and it looked pretty neat. I'm not in the market for one so I didn't pay attention to the price. I recall it also played MP3s and had a TV.
There's also this... (Score:1)
Gateway Connected Touch Pad (Score:2, Informative)
Edmund
I've given this a bit of thought... (Score:2, Interesting)
- Space - No one wants to give up counter space for a computer, and besides it would be a pain to lean over (you don't sit down very much in the kitchen).
- Cleanliness - a keyboard and mouse would be ruined in short order.
- Noise - maybe a bit of a minor issue, but it's always better to have less noise.
I always thought the following would be cool:
Hardware
- Motherboard - a mini-ITX motherboard would be perfect (low energy, possible fanless operation, tiny, integrated everything).
- Enclosure - a slim box that would mount sideways, screwed to the side inside of one of the upper cabinets.
- Cooling - if heat is a issue, a plenum could run on the inside of the cabinet from holes on the bottom of the cabinet through the enclosure to the ceiling. A fan to draw air through (as well as the power supply, ethernet, etc.) would all be up out of sight
- Screen - an LCD panel with touch-like screen, mounted portrait layout, right on the cabinet door (so that it is right at eye level, and out of reach of the small kids).
- Pen - whether it is a true touch screen (like a PDA) or a wired light pen, I don't know, but this would be the primary input device.
- Speakers & microphone - small, slim models also mounted into the cabinet door.
- USB/Firewire connections - for quick upload & download to/from a PDA, camera, memory keychain, etc.
- another PC - running as a server.
Note that I don't want a hard drive, keyboard, or mouse. The most work in this would be physically installing the screen & speakers in the door so it looks good and the wires flex properly with the door swing, and with designing the motherboard enclosure and plenum. Oh, and wiring everything through the ceiling.
Software
- X-terminal setup - this machine would be boot-on-LAN, and all storage would be over Ethernet - run as much as possible on the server end.
- Handwriting recognition - since the machine would never be used for entering in large amounts of data (I don't code while cooking), there is no need for a keyboard (most entry would be on the server, and this would mostly be a "retrieval" device) - but there should be a handwriting code for when you need to enter in text, maybe like Palm's graffiti.
- Applications - I want this machine to do the following functions
- Organizer - standard PDA stuff (calendar, address, to-do, notes, calculator, etc.)
- Recipe database - duh! (and actually useful, given the screen's location)
- Message centre - retrieve both voice and email messages
- "Thumbtack" board - leave notes for others in the house (vocal or written)
- Browser - access to the Web and local files
- Live Broadcast - you could access TV, radio, etc. with server-based tuners
- Stored Entertainment - play back mp3, divx, etc.
No word processing, spreadsheets, photo editing, games, etc. here! Just stuff that makes sense in the kitchen (communication, passive information and entertainment).
Even if all the pieces were in place for doing everything I want here, there would be a lot of work to build an interface that would pull it all together nicely. All apps would be set up for as little data entry as possible (tapping on buttons should be the main interaction).
Of course, all this is way beyond my abilities, time, and cash flow to actually do. But that's my dream kitchen machine.
I know we all hate MS but... (Score:1)
It's got a touchscreen making the keyboard and mouse completely uneccesary, and has an extremely complementary form factor.
Recipe management software? (Score:2)
Think Retro (like I did) (Score:1)
For software, I've got Windows 95a (it was hard enough to install that over floppies, and I don't have a linux compatible PCMCIA network card), and AbiWord [abisource.com] for recipes. No fancy databases here, just a folder for the recipe files, and a naming convention for the files themselves. (Food category, food name. Ex: Pizza, thin crust. or Cake, Mayonaisse chocolate).
That little computer is the most complemented and congratulated computer in my house, and we have no lack of them. After making a recipe, just click the little switch to flip it to a quick standby, fold the keyboard up, and it's nearly footprint-free, due to it's easel type stand.
I say, think about what you want it to go, and don't over-estimate it. Do you really need it to be a big whiz-bang system? Or, would a simple little older computer like this one work better? (It could go online, over a network card. Phoenix [mozilla.org], a web browser project related to Mozilla, would probably work. (Don't quote me on that, haven't tried, though I use Phoenix for my day-to-day browsing)
br? In summary, don't overestimate your needs, and don't be afraid to look for older, but viable, solutions. Plus, if you find a Compaq Concerto, either use it, or give it to me.