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Education

Taking High School Classes, Online? 58

AtariDatacenter asks: "I have a teenage family member who has left the formal education system and we're wanting to enroll him into an accredited online high school curriculum. Happily, this is his wish as well. There seems to be a few services available online, but it is hard to tell very much about them from the outside. What should we be looking for? Are there any good deals (as far as quality or cost) out there?"
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Taking High School Classes, Online?

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  • Well.. (Score:2, Offtopic)

    Isn't there something to be said that going through the social experiences, good and bad, of high school is important in the development of an adult?
    • exactly. tell that teenage geek to get his/her ASS back in school and enjoy it while they can.
    • Re:Well.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by quantax ( 12175 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:09PM (#4617020) Homepage
      I know two people who have done this, one was socially inept and the other was 'normal' for a geek. The socially inept one was not a very nice person IMO, and treated other people with contempt and was generally apathetic towards others. The online schooling sure did not help this as he only got worst (I hung out with the individuals in an IRC channel) with time. The other guy is fine and is currently going to a university.

      I definitely see your point and agree with it, but it depends largely upon the person involved, whether they have the mental maturity to get something out of it. Even though I hated HS and most of the people in it, it has helped me deal with people in college (who, guess what, come from HS, its the same deal), and thus the real world. If this is being use as an emotional shield, that is unhealthy and could screw you in the long run, regardless of educational benefits. The best way to deal with the 'real world' is to experience it as soon as possible and realize how it works. Those who jump in after a life of non-interaction usually end up screwed in some way, whether it be drug binging or in general just not being able to make any friends.
      • Re:Well.. (Score:4, Informative)

        by MrResistor ( 120588 ) <peterahoff.gmail@com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:07PM (#4617519) Homepage
        I couldn't agree more. I have not known anyone who has done HS online, but I've known plenty of people who were home schooled, and they all have the same basic problems you describe. Some of them are OK, but all to many of them are impossible to be around.

        I imagine online schooling would be even worse. At least with normal home schooling they need to go in and meet with their teacher once a week.

        • Coming from someone who WAS homeschooled, you're full of crap.

          I never liked being around people, and I still don't. The best way to learn to tolerate the presence of others is to get a job, not go to school. After all, most people spend what, 15 years in an academic enviroment, and 50 or so in a work enviroment. That is where you'll have to deal with "real people"... not in schools, (unless you want to be a teacher) but in your future workplaces. Welcome to the real world: your sentance: until you can retire.
          • Coming from someone who WAS homeschooled, you're full of crap.

            I never liked being around people, and I still don't.


            Seems to me that you've just verified my position. The place to "learn to tolerate the presence of others" is NOT the workplace. Working well with others is a basic skill that your employer should not have to teach you.

        • Wasn't Einstien home schooled/self taught? It's my understanding that he was kicked out of school and was home schooled by his mother after that. Maybe he wasn't very social in his later years but you have to hand it to the guy, he's most intelligent/gifted person I've ever heard of.

          Secondly, I think in todays society social skills aren't nearly as important as they used to be. I'm not a very social person yet I'm doing just fine because I found a life that worked well for me. I'm a self-employed programmer and I work from home. During the day I'm completely by myself and I hang out with friends after work. I deal with clients over the phone and online and have never met any of my clients in person. This works great for me. If I was in a different line of work, say maybe a used car salesman, then obviously I would need to be much more outgoing.

          I would also like to point out that you don't need to limit yourself to just high school courses. A lot of college level courses will also count for high school credit, so taking online college courses may open up a lot of options.

    • I can say it again for everyone: Google.com I took a quick look after typing in High School online and found class.com
    • Re:Well.. (Score:1, Interesting)

      by hbmartin ( 579860 )
      Isn't there something to be said that going through the social experiences, good and bad, of high school is important in the development of an adult?
      Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot to be said, the real question is: what is to be said? I drives me nuts when people tell me that, per education, I need "broaden my horizens" and be "well rounded" BECAUSE that's just stereo-typing me, what my future is, and what my educational needs are. Isn't stereo-typing "you need to go to HS to be an adult" just as bad? Many people didn't get anything from HS but misery and scars. How does make someone a mature adult?
      • How many people do you know that DIDN'T get their HS education from HS? How many of them would you consider well-adjusted adults? Is there anything inherintly wrong with breeding antisocial hermits? no, but it should at least be discussed.
      • Many people didn't get anything from HS but misery and scars. How does make someone a mature adult?

        It shows you that a lot of people are mean
        assholes and you better be prepared for it.
        You know, that which doesn't kill you...

      • The cultural role of High School is to give people the basic skill set needed to live on their own, be a functional member of society, and not be a burden to the state.

        Examples:
        Enough math to manage personal finances.
        Enough government to allow one to understand the basic workings of our political system.
        Enough english to be a literate citizen who can handle everyday correspondence and read for news if not pleasure.

        On top of this high school is supposed to create opportunities for one to achieve further education (college, vocational training) and provide the foundation on which that secondary education can be built.

        Elementary and middle school are where the bulk of social development is expected to take place. It's where we learn to sit still, to meet a basic deadline, to work and share with others, to play nice with others.

        There is a reason that they don't have recess at any high school I know of.
        • The cultural role of High School is to give people the basic skill set needed to live on their own, be a functional member of society, and not be a burden to the state.
          IMO, the cultural role of high school (and elementary school too, for that matter) has less to do with teaching you any particular skill and lots more to do with teaching you to sit still for eight hours a day, take orders from someone you don't care about and don't like, and do work you have no particular skill for or interest in...because this is what "modern society" wants: adults who will sit still, do work they hate, taking orders from a boss they hate, and not quit/go insane/kill someone. After all, if you weren't properly indoctrinated, you might get crazy ideas, like that what you want matters, or that you should have a say in things...
    • Re:Well.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by gallen1234 ( 565989 )
      It seems that this tired argument is raised every time some heretic has the nerve to suggest that the public schools might not be right for their children. For some people the public school environment is great, for others it isn't. Deciding which is the case for a given child is a job for parents not bureacrats.
    • I have taken a few classes from elearn.byu.edu and have received many great results.
  • home schooling (Score:5, Informative)

    by zogger ( 617870 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @12:26PM (#4617164) Homepage Journal
    --instead of asking here per se, a better bet is to seek out your local home schooling organization and get some recommendations from "been there, done that, this is good and this isn't, etc" folks as you'll not only get the actual info, but it will come with the hoops that are needed to jump through that are specific to your location. These are a big variable it appears, state by state.

    With that said the "no social life" bugaboo is a red herring that detractors use. Any kid can have a social life. I know families with public only educated, private bricks and mortar only educated, and home schooled. On a scale of adjusted-normal to weird I'd give the nod to the public school kids as being more or less less educated, less informed, and their only acceptable normal behavior seems to revolve around wearing the same clothes in a trendy manner. They learn to clique up. The public schools have changed a lot, they are more social engineering propoganda brainwashing centers then houses of education it seems. They learn to conform and be politically correct and to not "think", only parrot approved dogma.

    Yes, I know this is a generalization, this is a general topic, obvviously exceptions exist in both spheres.

    Good luck on your quest for real education. And google will find you course outlines if that's all you want. I've forgotten the name but I know there are complete k to 12 outlines available on CD's for reasonable, but I honestly have forgotten the name of them right now.
    • Re:home schooling (Score:3, Interesting)

      by MrResistor ( 120588 )
      With that said the "no social life" bugaboo is a red herring that detractors use. Any kid can have a social life. I know families with public only educated, private bricks and mortar only educated, and home schooled. On a scale of adjusted-normal to weird I'd give the nod to the public school kids as being more or less less educated, less informed, and their only acceptable normal behavior seems to revolve around wearing the same clothes in a trendy manner.

      Let's see where those home schooled kids are when they're 25.

      The idea that the social aspects of school are a red herring seems to be based entirely only the immediately observable. The home schooled kids don't belong to cliques or follow trends, and they seem to have more "book learning" (which I assume is what you mean by saying they are more informed/better educated). OK, great, but where does that get them?

      5 years down the road they still haven't learned to fit in. They have serious social problems, which all to often lead to other problems with drugs and alcohol (and sex, well, the girls anyway) which only exacerbate the social problems making it even more difficult for them to find/make friends. They often have difficulty handling pressure or criticism, but at the same time are very arrogant and have no trouble criticizing others.

      Yes, these are generalizations, and yet they hold true for every single person I've met who was home schooled. Some of them have been tolerable, but all too many have been highly irritating.

      It is not an issue of "no social life", obviously that is easily worked around. The issue is one of social education, which is very hard to get without putting the kid in a school situation. If that valuable social experience is a red herring, well, so is your assertion that all kids learn in public school is to "conform and be politically correct and to not 'think', only parrot approved dogma."
      • Re:home schooling (Score:4, Interesting)

        by schon ( 31600 ) on Thursday November 07, 2002 @04:38PM (#4619387)
        5 years down the road they still haven't learned to fit in. They have serious social problems, which all to often lead to other problems with drugs and alcohol (and sex, well, the girls anyway) which only exacerbate the social problems making it even more difficult for them to find/make friends.

        Hello,

        I was home schooled.

        I am 30 years old, have been happily married for 4 years, have a good job, and am well-adjusted. I have a lot of friends, who generally say that I'm an OK guy.

        I have never used drugs (I saw what it did to my friends, and decided it wasn't for me), and although I used to be a social drinker (typically wine at parties), I haven't had any since I got engaged (my wife's family has a history of alcoholism, and she asked me to say away from it.)

        Yes, these are generalizations, and yet they hold true for every single person I've met who was home schooled.

        Maybe you need to reassess your generalisms.. how do you know that all the other people you know who are well-adjusted aren't home schooled? Did you ask everyone, or do you just assume it because they don't fit your prejudiced view?

        And what about all the drunkards and drug addicts I know that weren't home schooled? I could argue that it's the school system that caused their problems too!

        About the only thing that home schooling lacks is physical education and sports - both of which are tough to do in a home environment, but neither of which cause "damage" if withheld.

        The issue is one of social education, which is very hard to get without putting the kid in a school situation.

        Bullshit. In case you hadn't noticed, kids are supposed to go to school to learn to read and write, not to socialize.

        Social education is a matter of parenting - if your parents are lousy communicators, then you'll get a lousy social education - simply putting someone in a school won't fix that. After school hours and vacation gives kids lots of time to socialize.
        • About the only thing that home schooling lacks is physical education and sports - both of which are tough to do in a home environment, but neither of which cause "damage" if withheld.

          I would argue that those things are what make public school worse for gaining social experience, because anyone who is slightly varied from the norm is shunned and ridiculed by the football-obsessed preps (speaking from experience).

          Social experience my butt...
        • Did you ask everyone, or do you just assume it because they don't fit your prejudiced view?

          No, I don't ask everyone, but neither have I assumed anything. My opinion is based entirely on people who I know have been home schooled or not.

          And what about all the drunkards and drug addicts I know that weren't home schooled? I could argue that it's the school system that caused their problems too!

          Hmmm... 100 percent for home schooled vs. 10-20 percent for non-home schooled. I know that correlation does not imply causation, but still...

          Bullshit. In case you hadn't noticed, kids are supposed to go to school to learn to read and write, not to socialize.

          A common, though inaccurate, belief among the home schooled.

          Social education is a matter of parenting - if your parents are lousy communicators, then you'll get a lousy social education - simply putting someone in a school won't fix that. After school hours and vacation gives kids lots of time to socialize.

          Bullshit. Socializing with only those you want to be around does not comprise a social education any more than studying only those subjects you are interested in comprises an academic education. Dealing with people you don't like is something you have to do eventually anyway, and it's better to learn it before it really matters.

          I am 30 years old, have been happily married for 4 years, have a good job, and am well-adjusted. I have a lot of friends, who generally say that I'm an OK guy.

          I have never used drugs (I saw what it did to my friends, and decided it wasn't for me), and although I used to be a social drinker (typically wine at parties), I haven't had any since I got engaged (my wife's family has a history of alcoholism, and she asked me to say away from it.)


          If this is true, then congratulations: you are the exception to the rule. I never said there weren't exceptions (in fact my statement about generalization strongly implies that there are), just that I don't know any personally.

      • Let's see where those home schooled kids are when they're 25.

        Do that. In the meantime I know several high school students that have been kicked out and/or headed into the juvenile (or even worse, adult) justice system. This is not the type of "socialization" most parents desire for their children.

        Now I'll grant you that there are vast differences in school systems throughout the country; major differences even within the same school district. But if the school district where you live is as bad as the one where I live there are NO socialization problems that home-schooling could impose that are any where near the severity of the anti-socialization problems the public school system inculcates.

      • Let's see where those home schooled kids are when they're 25.

        The idea that the social aspects of school are a red herring seems to be based entirely only the immediately observable. The home schooled kids don't belong to cliques or follow trends, and they seem to have more "book learning" (which I assume is what you mean by saying they are more informed/better educated). OK, great, but where does that get them?

        5 years down the road they still haven't learned to fit in. They have serious social problems, which all to often lead to other problems with drugs and alcohol (and sex, well, the girls anyway) which only exacerbate the social problems making it even more difficult for them to find/make friends. They often have difficulty handling pressure or criticism, but at the same time are very arrogant and have no trouble criticizing others.
        How are these problems any different from kids going to public school? I've found them much less prevalent in the people I know who were home schooled.

        Yes, these are generalizations, and yet they hold true for every single person I've met who was home schooled. Some of them have been tolerable, but all too many have been highly irritating.
        My experience has been much different. I went to public school, but I have many friends who were home schooled, and know many more. I've found that people who were home schooled are just as well adjusted as other people. Granted, I've met some that had poor interpersonal skills, but usually their parents sheltered them far too much. However, I've met plenty of people like that who attended public schools.

        I believe some of the current trends in education will be far more harmful than anyone could even imagine from home schooling. The massive over-prescription of drugs like Ritalin is going to screw up a lot of kids. Even worse are the schools banning all competitive sports & activities, so nobody has to be a loser. When those kids graduate, they're going to find a world that just isn't fair, and be utterly unprepared to deal with it.

        It is not an issue of "no social life", obviously that is easily worked around. The issue is one of social education, which is very hard to get without putting the kid in a school situation. If that valuable social experience is a red herring, well, so is your assertion that all kids learn in public school is to "conform and be politically correct and to not 'think', only parrot approved dogma."
        I believe kids can receive an equal or better social education outside of school.
        • How are these problems any different from kids going to public school? I've found them much less prevalent in the people I know who were home schooled.

          Percentage of population. My experience has been that all or nearly all of those whom I know have been homeschooled exhibit at least one of the problem I describe, vs. far less than half among those whom I know have not been home schooled, and only 10-20 percent for serious drug/alcohol/sex problems.

          Now, it is entirely possible that things are simply skewed in my area. I live in a small town, and there aren't the kind of problems in our public schools that I hear about in other areas. It's possible that I have merely been unfortunate and met only those who were home schooled specifically for the purpose of overly sheltering them (like my neighbor, who home schooled all his kids because he didn't want them to learn about evolution, and they're the most screwed up of anyone I know).

          I believe some of the current trends in education will be far more harmful than anyone could even imagine from home schooling.

          In some ways I agree, but I don't have time to stray that much from my main point. Most of these trends should be reversable if the colleges would simply speak up about the quality of education, especially WRT math, that their incoming students have recieved.

          The massive over-prescription of drugs like Ritalin is going to screw up a lot of kids.

          While I agree that this is a horrible thing, it also has nothing to do with schools. Schools don't hand out Ritalin, and any teacher that suggests a kid should be taking it needs to be taken to task. Parents are the arbiters of what prescription drugs their kids will take, and it is parents who are to blame for this epidemic.

          On a side note, I have noticed that my own daughter displays many of the symptoms of a hyperactivity disorder when she gets too much sugar. I wonder how many of these poor kids could be "cured" simply by a change of diet?

          Even worse are the schools banning all competitive sports & activities, so nobody has to be a loser. When those kids graduate, they're going to find a world that just isn't fair, and be utterly unprepared to deal with it.

          This isn't just a problem with schools, and it's actually much more prevelant in non-school affiliated child sports leagues. Obviously the leagues aren't removing the sports themselves, but rather removing the competition from sports that have always been competitive, or at least trying to.

          However, I have a 9 year old nephew who is very much into baseball, and has played since he was old enough. Even though the official policy is that they don't keep score and there are no winners or losers and everyone gets their turn, the kids do keep score, and they know very well who won and who lost, even though the adults like to pretend that isn't happening.

          That doesn't completely mitigate the damage done by these policies, unfortunately.

          I believe kids can receive an equal or better social education outside of school.

          I believe that having to learn to deal with people you don't get along with on a day-to-day basis is the most important part of social education, and that it needs to be learned before one enters the workplace. If you have ideas regarding how this can be achieved in a non-school environment, I'd like to hear them, because I can't think of any.

      • Yes, these are generalizations, and yet they hold true for every single person I've met who was home schooled. Some of them have been tolerable, but all too many have been highly irritating


        Do you ask everybody you meet if they are/were homeschooled? I would imagine you have met several well adjusted people who were homeschooled, but threw away the 'My name is Bob. I was homeschooled' badge.

      • The problem with schools is that there full of kids,and kids are nasty bastards.

        There are two type of kids that leave school, the ones that didn't fit in, and the ones that take another 10years to grow up.

        By your measure, kids that are home-schooled will be in a more adult culture, be more open(that's adult culture), and less 'childish/attention seeking' By the time there 20 they'll be as 'mature' as a 25year old school kid.

        Maybe you just keep the wrong friends?
  • My advice is to skip high school, high school curricula, and high school teachers. Go directly to community college.

    The teachers are better, the material is less bowdlerized, and the other students have a better attitude. Don't worry about "socialization" -- since the material is covered much more quickly there's a lot more time left over for being with people.

    • The point is that is you're the kind of person who could benefit from being with people more often, you're also more likely to NOT spend all your extra time with people, but rather sitting at home alone watching a 24 anime channel.
      • True, but they'd be even less likely to spend their extra time being social if the only time they're around other people is when they're suffering through boring, lowest common denominator, high school classes.

      • The point is that is you're the kind of person who could benefit from being with people more often, you're also more likely to NOT spend all your extra time with people, but rather sitting at home alone watching a 24 anime channel.

        Wait a sec! Do you mean to imply that the social interaction depicted in anime cartoons isn't realistic?

        Oh my god! So that's why I can't get dates with girls whose eyes are as big as saucers!
    • Totaly (Score:3, Interesting)

      by commonchaos ( 309500 )
      I know that in California you can take a standardized test [google.com] which, aside from being a piece of cake, will make you a high school graduate in the eyes of the state. I have many friends who took this test around 16, attended community college for their Jr. and Sr. years in high school, then transferred into a 4 Year.
      • Some more information about the California High School Proficiency Exam:

        To take it you have to either be 16, or at least in the second semester of grade 10. (I think its grade 10, it may be the second year of high school, which can vary depending on the structure of the school district)

        The test when I took it (1997), consisted of about 100 multiple choice questions and an essay. You get a pass/fail grade and no other indication of how you did.

        After I passed the CHSPE, I used it as a big stick to convince my High School to let me finish in 3 years instead of four. (They have since added 4 years of english as a graduation requirement; if they had that requirement when I was there, I would have just left and gone to community college without a diploma.)

        After my 3rd year of high school (and my diploma), I went to a community college (california community colleges rock, $11/credit! and the administrative bs isn't too bad. I went to http://www.occ.cccd.edu). Then I transfered to the school I'm at now (guess where by email).

  • by TibbonZero ( 571809 ) <Tibbon&gmail,com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @01:24PM (#4617679) Homepage Journal
    I know that some of you are going to give useless answers such as:
    Shouldn't you kid get the social experiences of High School?
    Don't do that, get your kid back in High School.
    Teach him yourself, don't use online stuff
    etc...


    This is the worst thing that I can see about Slashdot. People think that those asking questions want life advice, instead of a simple answer. But really, they just want a simple answer. Too often I see questions of "How can I implement this in my school" or something liek that, and people go and just try to convince them that it's not a good idea, instead of answering the question that they asked. If they wanna use Linux in elemetary schools, let them- if they wanna have their kid go through High School online, let them; and give them good advice on how to do it- let them device whether it's the best thing to do. They didn't ask your opinion whether they should...
    I am sure that everyone here knows what I am talking about...

    • You're welcome to your opinion, TibbonZero, but I strongly disagree. I am one of those posters that apparently aggrevates you and I plan to continue to post my opinions on these AskSlashdot forums.

      This is the worst thing that I can see about Slashdot.

      Well, apparently you and I have very different ideas about what this forum is good for. Yes, slashdot is a place where technically competant people hang out. But these people are (for the most part) very thoughtful and intelligent as well. And they have opinions that are worth listening to. Some of them may even have experience with these sorts of problems and would like to share the lessons they learned.

      People think that those asking questions want life advice, instead of a simple answer. But really, they just want a simple answer.

      Tough bananas. Sometimes these people need to be forced to think about the larger issues. Let's say someone here has already gone this path with their child and found out the hard way that the whole idea is horribly flawed (in their opinion, of course). Are you saying that this person doesn't have a right to share their experiences if they stray away from a simple answer like what software to use?

      Slashdot is a forum where highly intelligent and very opinionated people gather to trade points of view with each other. We aren't a friggin' tech support line! ANYONE who posts to AskSlashdot is inviting a critique of their overall approach and philosophy. If they aren't willing to listen to that sort of stuff they can (a) choose to ignore the non-technical comments they get or (b) go ask their questions on a different forum (online or offline) or, god forbid, (c) do a Google search.

      GMD

      • While you are correct, and sometimes the best answer is to look at the bigger picture, there is a definite pattern to Slashdot.

        Whenever anything comes up, at least half the posts are why it won't work, or why it isn't a good idea. Some of the time it is valid, but a lot of the time it is stupid and baseless, especially regarding issues that most people know little about, such as highly specific scientific things.

        People have called this "Slashdot Naysayer Syndrome". I think it's a problem. Know-it-all assholes with a negative attitude and no clue shouldn't get modded up so much.

        It's not just Slashdot either, I see it in any field where the knowledge is specialized, but there are hobbyists or amateurs that are chewing into the field, causing the worth of the education/experience of the existing practicioners to be degraded.

        Some examples are

        law -the Internet has made basic legal research available to all

        electricians - the DYI movement and "home stores" have chewed into their field as far as simple jobs go

        programmers/computer people - to some extent... mostly older guys.. their expensive college degrees don't mean as much anymore

        Ham Radio - The guys who had to learn high speed morse code really resent the late comers who didn't have to learn code as well

        Basically... any time someone who had to work hard to get something perceives someone else getting the same thing with less work, they automatically try to discredit the new way, even if the new way is just as valid as the old way.

        Sometimes these people have valid points... I mean you shouldn't try to defend your felony case without a lawyer, or wire up a complex 3 phase industrial circuit yourself... etc..

        But a lot of the times these people are just being protectionist, elitest, assholes. This is a real problem.
  • I'm still in high school, but last year I got a letter from Stanford [stanford.edu] inviting me to join in their Education Program for Gifted Youth [stanford.edu] as I was already accepted even before applying (they basically asked me because I got a 5 on the AP Computer Science exam, whoopde doo). It seems like a nice program. I didn't enroll because my school offers a lot of AP programs as it is, and that's basically what the school is for. There's Physics courses, Calculus courses, etc. all geared towards the AP exams.
  • My High School (Score:2, Informative)

    by pixelcort ( 413708 )
    http://deltahigh.com/

    This is the high school that I attend. It uses a proprietary product called Portal that appears to work over Telnet. It's an older interface, however it gets the job done. Myself and some peers set up a Yahoo Group to manage social gatherings and such. We also have online courses available on site. An excellent choice of curriculum is available, and someday they plan to move to a SQL database and 'bad HTML' web-application system. It is a public charter school so it doesn't cost anything to use it. (Other then ISP fees.)
  • by Stavo ( 612752 ) <stavo@europa.com> on Thursday November 07, 2002 @02:49PM (#4618425) Homepage Journal
    For those interested in distance learning, you might find our resource useful: http://www.netc.org/digitalbridges/ We are the Northwest Education Technology Consortium (NETC) at the Northwest Regional Educational Laboratory (NWREL), a private, nonprofit institution. We are not affiliated with any company or distance learning project. See: http://www.netc.org/ and http://www.nwrel.org/
  • The basic question is why the youth left the traditional education system.

    If it's because of socialization issues then isolating them through an online curriculum isn't probably the best idea. Teen's social lives pretty much revolve around school and while it's not impossible for an outsider to gain a foothold it's harder, a lot more tenuous, and they'll likely be missing out on some valuable experiences interacting with classmates. It may be difficult, and a change of venues may be called for, but like it or not we learn as much about real life in the hallways of a school as in the classroom.

    If quality-of-education or content-of-education (i.e. religious or ethical issues) are the reason then look into private schools. There are ones of almost every variety, they generally provide decent educations (some superlative others less so, watch out for the ones warehousing troubled-kids) and if not local then consider a residential program. If there's a subject that interests the youth one can almost always find a school catering to that interest, applying that subject as context across the curricula, etc.

    If the youth is themselves a "troubled-kid" then the worst thing I can imagine is disconnecting them from the larger social-environment and the regular support of educational professionals. Not all schools are great places, nor are all faculties and administrations wonderful, but with a parent aggressively championing them a youth with problems can usually get good support from experienced and knowledgeable staff. Likely better then well-meaning but inexperienced parents can do alone or at home.

    Having dealt with some home-schooled folks over the years I've found their interpersonal skills to be generally poor, especially when outside of their social niche, particularly in situations involving diverse folks. Also in each case their world-views were severely limited and they had great difficulty empathizing or even understanding people from other backgrounds or of differing lifestyles. Not only were they very intolerant but they were genuinely bewildered when confronted by "alien" ideas and people. Needless to say they usually led circumscribed lives and weren't very succesfull.

    Personally I loathed my high school and ended up getting lots of extra credit for "independent study" and taking courses through the state and local universities. On the other hand I'm glad that 2 out of 3 of those offered exposure to lots of peers and near-peers, the by-mail state courses were academically pathetic* and would've been quite isolating. As it was I built a second social circle independent of my high school which provided me with the challenges and support it couldn't.

    Talking to my friends who are now belatedly completing college degrees through online programs I hear a litany of complaints regarding the difficulties of asynchronous interaction and limited means of communication. These are difficult for 30-somethings spending large sums of money and with some perspective on life and delayed gratification; asking a less experienced/motivated person like a teenager to deal with these challenges seems doomed to failure. It's hard enough as youth to gain an education and pick up the skills one'll need all through life without serving them impersonally through a bandwidth-straw and browser-window.

    -- Michael

    * USA, 1985, State of Massachusetts, Department of Education's US-History-by-mail included things like "The first people in America were the Pilgrims". No reference to the natives who greeted them, or to my own ancestors in Jamestown 23 years prior, etc.

  • by Anonymous Coward
    I am a student in a regular high school, but I leave school early and come home to take two classes at FLVS [http://www.flvs.net/]. They offer just about every class you need to take to pass high school in Florida, and they have a rather large amount of AP classes too.
    The teaching is done based upon reading lessons and submitting assignments/quizzes based upon them. If you need special help, you email your instructor. Otherwise, your instructor grades papers and sends them back your way.
    As far as social skills, it is absolutely nothing like what I do in other classes. For example, my AP Calculus BC class [which I take at normal high school] regularly has chat room study halls, and everyone has eachother's email and im address for help. Our teacher is signed on every night [I'll admit, he is not the most social person... his life basically consists of teaching. This can vary from awesome to dismal depending on your point of view.] FLVS is much more like reading a text book and doing the same type of work over and over. You learn from it, it is just that it gets boring. There is no real social setting [100 page parties, free days, after school study sessions, etc]. The only way you meet your fellow students are through weekly discussions in a few classes, and those really aren't as social as a discussion in a real class. The fascists make you stick to the topic and only the topic... you aren't even allowed to bring in a real life experience to clarify your point of view.
  • I really wasn't looking for a debate on "is home school bad" / "shouldn't he be socializing". That issue has been decided in this case. The question is more about online high-school learning possibilities.
    • You're obviously new here. If you stop for a second and think about who we (the slashdot community) are, you'll realize that reading/posting to slashdot is entertainment for us. As such, we are in no way obligated to answer your questions exactly how you want them answered; in fact, by asking your questions in a public forum such as this, you're opening yourself up to all sorts of opinions.

      Now, back to the original story... perhaps we could could use a bit more information about this "teenage family member who has left the formal education system". How old is he, and why did he leave the system? Based on my experience, most people who drop-out do so for bullshit reasons that are pure cop-outs.

      The answers can vary widely based on his motivation for dropping out. A physically disabled student who doesn't get their needs met by the school system is entirely different than a kid who just doesn't want to get out of bed in the morning or wants to smoke pot all day. A kid who always gets beat up is going to have different needs than somebody who doesn't feel that classes are challenging enough.

      Without knowing _WHY_ this kid is dropping out, we have to assume that he, like the vast majority of drop outs, is doing it 'cuz it's the "easy way out" of a situation that actually (**GASP**) sets standards & has expectations of them.

      If that assumption is incorrect, a clarification is definately in order.

      Assuming that the kid actually wants to learn, and is at least (based on an HONEST evaluation) of average intelligence & learning for a kid his age, I think the best thing to do would be to take a high-school equivalency test (in Washington it's called the GED, and most HS students who pay attention could pass it in their freshman year) and take college level classes, either online or at a local CC. Especially if you go through a community college, the classes, while being somewhat accelerated, would be at an appropriate level, and a GED + Associates degree is a lot more useful than a HS diploma. On top of that, college level classes are going to be easier to check up on; solid accreditation requirements, and multiple organizations rating them, and a far larger selection of organizations providing the service.
      • If I had mod points right now, I'm not sure which I would mark your message as. Off-topic, or troll? Go back and read the question...

        > There seems to be a few services available
        > online, but it is hard to tell very much about
        > them from the outside. What should we be looking
        > for? Are there any good deals (as far as quality
        > or cost) out there?
  • Socialization issues aside, is online high school really the best option? There's a reason why he dropped out of high school, and it needs to be addressed, something that online schooling might not necessarily do. He may just see it as partially caving to his demands, and then he'll try something more extreme.
  • by og_sh0x ( 520297 )
    Wel I went to public school and look at me im a helpless retard so maybe i should have gone to home school that sounds like fun cause then i could be home cause thats where the oreos are
  • "we're wanting to enroll him into an accredited online high school curriculum."

    Difficult, because there really is no such thing yet. There are a few (some mentioned here) that are achieving reasonable results, but most schools that even have distance learning capability, only offer for 1 or 2 courses. Looking at each states Dept of Ed web site, which may list the names and link to various high schools may be a good start. Remedial 2 year colleges are sometimes equiped with DL courses also. Really though, even at the university level, DL is not that common-place yet. NOVA is good, Arizona U, and U Mass, to name a few, but unless that is the focus, you'll find the offerings very limited.
  • Well, I have managed [virtualgreenbush.org] to [class.com] find [kool-school.org] a [classes2you.com] few [advancedacademics.com]!

    So finding these things isn't too hard. It is comparing them and knowing what to look for, or measuring one against the other that seems to be the most difficult. The Advanced Academics [advancedacademics.com] would appear to be a decent choice. Can't really judge the quality from the outside. They seem to be able to hook some students up with financing by basically enrolling them in a remote high school.

    Of course, lowest price is not the primary factor here. But it is a little tough to know what to be looking for and to measure one against the other. [shrug] Ideas?
  • We offer several online classes here at Bishop High School [k12.ca.us] in Bishop, CA. We had to carefully pre-screen students, and our experience has shown that while online classes are an excellent opportunity for rural or small schools to offer curriculum they otherwise could not, there are drawbacks.

    Specifically, the largest complaint was that there is no immediate feedback. Most online courses require logging in, reading lessons, and taking tests. There is little opportunity to ask the "online teacher" spontaneous questions. Most require submitting questions via email, and we've found that if you don't phrase the question properly, the responses can be tangential, or inapplicable.

    Also, students MUST be self-motivated. You will set your child up for failure if they get behind in lessons. It is very tempting to put off online lessons because of the "I can read/download it later" syndrome. Parents MUST enforce the required homework and reading. There is no substitute for this at all.

    Finally, the on-site "liasion" (usually a certificated teacher) is a crucial link. If a test needs to be faxed in by midnight, that teacher had better be willing to get calls from desperate students who flaked on their test until 11:59pm! This happens, and special dedication is required.

    Hope this helps. Please feel free to email or post if you've got specific questions about our online curriculum, and past experience.

  • http://www.idahova.org/ is one in Idaho.
  • I'm an employee of Advanced Academics [advancedacademics.com] so I hope I can address some of the misconceptions here.

    What we offer is accredited online high school curriculum. 100% of the course is taken online, including testing. No textbooks are required. We have a full time staff of teacher assistants available 24 hours a day. Students enrolled in our system can get help anytime via email, telephone, or even using our internal chat system they can talk to an actual, live certified teacher.

    In most cases we partner with your child's school district to give them a turn-key online program. In some states students in online programs receive state funding just as if they were taking classes in a regular school, which makes our program free to those students.

    While I agree with many of the comments here about socialization, the primary purpose of our program is to allow schools to help students that can't be helped by traditional means. Sure, most students are better of in a classroom. AtariDatacenter only says that his student has left the formal education system but there are many reasons that kids leave school....discipline problems, sickness, pregnancy, incarceration, etc. Online programs in these cases can help students that simply cannot benefit from a traditional classroom envrionment. Furthermore we help students that need to make up a missing credit, want to get ahead, or want to take a class that their school doesn't offer.

    I don't think that online high schools will replace the brick and mortar schools anytime in the near future, but there is a huge population of non-traditional students that can greatly benefit from this type of program. And with the appropriate legislation in place, they can do it for free like other forms of public education.

Understanding is always the understanding of a smaller problem in relation to a bigger problem. -- P.D. Ouspensky

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