Helping Your Ex-Employer? 878
ali_bubba asks: "A funny thing happened to me today, I have beeb unemployed for over 5 months, and all of a sudden my ex-Boss calls me and demands (well, it sounded like a demand) that I help her out, because her entire corporate LAN was down. Naturally, she knows that I'm kind person, but boy what attitude, so I did help her save the day. She did not even bother calling me back to thank me, (like if you get slapped, turn the other cheek, as Jesus once said) Has anyone else had this happen to them before? What actions did you take?" While I can understand that some people in this situation may harbor some ill will if place in this situation, it may behoove you to see this as an opportunity, and at the very least, an opportunity to make a little money off of your old company. It doesn't pay to burn bridges, especially if they need something that you can provide. For those who have been in this situation, how did you handle it? For others, if you were offered work from your old job, would you do it, and under what conditions would your perform said work?
whos bitch are you? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone, your employer is not your neurotic pot buddy from college who calls you out of the blue every now and then for help. They are a legal entity that exchanges labor for cash. If your former employer needs help with something, you have the responsibility for asking what kind of consideration they are going to give you for your labor... and get it in writing up front.
No wonder people are getting laid off! Employers are learning they'll work for free "just to be kind".
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Informative)
If somebody asks for your services in a context in which it would be normal to expect payment, and you provide those services, they must pay you whether they promised to do so or not. The amount they must pay you may be smaller than what you could have gotten with a contract - but they must pay "a reasonable sum" given the type of service performed, and in a case like this one, "a reasonable sum" might be calculated by reference to contracting rates for the same service.
In legal terminology, this payment is called a "quantum meruit"
IANALY,TINLA
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps, but if you're going to work for free, don't do it for someone who is. Help Habitat for Humanity of something.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes!
volunteering at a Mormon church
Yes!
and all those bake sales for the PTA will be what you were best known for.
Yes!
You are talking about deeds done for noble causes, for the public good, and for positive karma (no, not THAT karma
The only shitty part is you'll just be tossed into the Hudson River because you and your socialist family members don't have the money for a proper funeral and burial.
You could always donate your body for academic research. Hopefully that academic research won't be the effect of the Hudson River on cadavers. Mother Theresa lived to help the needy, her funeral wasn't too shabby.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Idealism be damned, reality is that money puts food on the table and a roof over your head.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't a charity, or a church, or an after school thing. This is a BUSINESS and a former EMPLOYER, who laid him off 5 months ago. So now, suddenly, they're entitled to his services for free? Bullshit. There is no charitable obligation here! It's a professional relationship, and this guys ex-boss is abusing his good will by not offering payment for his services before he even asked for the favor.
Sorry, but any moral obligation lies squarely on the ex-boss here.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
BUT (you knew that was coming) when it comes to companies this DOES NOT apply anymore. Companies (by their own definition) exist to make money, as such they have to PAY money for services as well.
If you feel bad about this money take it and donate it (e.g. EFF) but I wouldn't give them my services for free anymore (I was in that situation in the past and I DID charge).
Still not convinced? Ask yourself this, if the situation would have been reversed, if HE needed something from the company (let's say health coverage because he got injured) would THEY have given it to him?
M.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:4, Insightful)
If the guy wants to give his services away for free, for *whatever* reason, he's entitled to do it.
Did anyone ask what the company does/produces? Maybe they make wheelchairs, or distribute vaccines to third-world nations... we have no idea, though it's still irrelevant to the question of whether or not the man is entitled to give his services away... he is... period.
I understand mercenary sensibilities, I often find myself at odds with them in my line of work (health care field). Bottom line: the world would be better off with a whole lot more volunteerism. The president is right on the mark when he asks people to volunteer in their community; it's simply the right thing to do. Given, this is a business transaction, but perhaps he's being compensated with something less tangible, like goodwill, or a recommendation (or the chance to work around that attractive former coworker he never had the guts to ask out).
Personally, I end up giving away almost half of the medical care I provide for free (uninsured, self-pay, etc). I even volunteer in my community, over and above that. I'm not saying this to toot my own horn, or to be a sanctimonious jerk, I'm simply making the point that past a certain threshold, money isn't everything, and it's a DAMN poor substitute for happiness and personal/professional fulfillment (how's that for a run-on sentence?)
Mod me down to your heart's content, but I can't believe the assault on this guy for suggesting somebody do something for reasons other than money.... Unbelievable.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Your ex-boss was doing business to make sure that her ass didn't get toasted; it would have been nice to call back and say thanks, but it was business, not personal.
Send a bill. Minimum of eight hours of work. Bill fairly! Take the "going hourly rate" for the work you did, plus ad a small markup for doing it on such short notice.
It's not personal, it's business. 'Nuff said.
agreed. Send a bill. (Score:5, Insightful)
If the bill is reasonable, the gal you bailed out will see that it gets paid.
Re:agreed. Send a bill. (Score:5, Insightful)
Send the bill to her and you are likely to see nothing. Send the bill to accounts and you may still see nothing but at least she will get an ass kicking.
Re:agreed. Send a bill. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you send it directly to "accounting", your ex-boss may not like being culled out by your effort. Hey. He or she would deserve it. But still.
A better idea would be to send it first to the x-boss along with a question of whether or not a copy should not also be sent to accounting. That way the x is in a bind. But, self made. It could be approved and paid without embarrassing the boss or if rejected the crap will be sure to fly. Bills sent "out of the blue" to accounting can cause some departments real trouble. Or at least individuals get into that trouble by running the store in such a fashion. And, if they have more acceptable procedures in place a manager can "earn" a dressing down.
Either way, the bill should go out. I can not imagine the x-boss claiming that the emergency service should have been gratis. And, I can hardly imagine the boss not putting some grease on the payment if their ass remains covered.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Informative)
So do I and yes, $60/hr is on the low end. I charge $75/hr and that is lower than my competition. CompUSA charges $79/hr and another company in my town charges $85/hr for PC work and $105/hr for LAN, whereas I charge a flat rate.
It makes perfect sense to bill them, and it also says, "Next time you call, there will be another bill."
I would also include a cover letter detailing the job that was done and making any formal recommendations about the state of their equipment (upgrades that would benefit them, outdated equipment that should be replaced, etc.). I normally use the cover letter for "warm fuzzies" but it is the perfect way to formalize a business relationship and declare that this is a for-pay service.
Maybe include "Thanks for your business" on the bottom of the invoice
Better yet (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Better yet (Score:5, Funny)
But I think we now have an alternate definition for "Flamebait".
Just REFUSE... and cuss them out, too! (Score:4, Funny)
I worked at a grocery store as a teenager, and a few years later went back -- when the asshole manager who chewed me out every day for insignificant things said "Hi," I responded with a middle finger and a "Fuck you."
It felt, at that moment, with his mouth gaping open and his eyes wide open, as if I had finally put much of my angst behind me and let loose.
Re:Just REFUSE... and cuss them out, too! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Funny)
Heck with that, Invoice for consulting fees and emergency Lan repair. The amount of the invoice should come to about 5 months of your old salary.
If you want to ask for something, contact your old boss's boss and ask for you old boss's job. She's pretty much made your case for you.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
They may balk at the number (any good businessman would, on general principle), but you need to start somewhere. Remember, as well, that this is probably cheap for what you saved them. One place I worked had a productivity analyst going through the company when we had a major failure. My boss mentioned to me that he estimated that the outage was costing us something like $25/minute to have the system down. When faced with those sorts of costs, $90/hour isn't a big deal.
Given that they're a company and they came to you and asked you to do the work, they have a legal responsibility to pay you. The only question is how much. Given that they were so desparate that they didn't ask you how much, a consulting rate is pretty reasonable. You could even add an emergency response fee.
If they gave you a really nice golden handshake when they let you go, you might want to be nice to them in return, but there is absolutely no reason why you should accept less than what they were paying you when you were there full time.
_____
If you've never heard it before, there's the story of the company who called in a specialist to fix their equipment one say. The consultant comes in... looks at the equipment for half an hour and pounds a little brass tack into a hole, hands them a bill for $500 and starts packing to leave.
The CTO freaks when he sees the bill. "$500 for one brass tack? Why in the world should I pay you $500 for pounding in a brass tack??!".
"You're right," says the specialist. He takes the bill back and modifies it. When he hands it back to the CTO, it reads as follows:
____Remember: this is a company you're dealing with, not your best friend. They run off of money -- more specifically their balance sheet. They let you go because they figured it was cheaper to work without you. They called you back because they found out that they couldn't function without you. If you make sure that it remains cheap to treat you that way, It looks like they will probably continue to do so. (YMMV)
There are two likely reasons why they haven't bothered to talk to you.
1: they don't give a shit about you and/or don't really understand the value that you provid(ed) to the company and
2: they don't want to know what you're going to charge them for this emergency surgery.
It may be a combination of the two.
I have no idea about the conditions under which you left the company.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Informative)
No, the court won't back him up. It's the same thing as your friend next door asking if you could take a look at what is wrong with his Windows 95 box. You can't retroactively charge a fee if you didn't agree on one up front. Whether you want to call it work done for good will, pro bono, volunteer or on spec, you can't charge unless both parties understand before hand there will be a charge or both parties agree afterwards there should be a charge.
Never work for a corporate entity free of consideration. If you're inexperienced, that consideration may just be "experience". If they laid you off, you may work on speculation that they will think of you first when they can start hiring again. But if you've been out of work for 5 months, I reccomend that consideration be cold hard cash.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Insightful)
It all comes down to whether they could have reasonably expected the work to be free. If you go to the garage for an oil change, but don't ask how much it costs, you don't get it for free.
I'd agree that a court wouldn't neccesarily rule in his favor, but it couldn't hurt to just send in an invoice anyway.
Re:whos bitch are you? (Score:5, Funny)
Same thing happened too me
If you don't need the money and/or the company treated you badly, this may be an appropriate response. If you feel neutral towards the company, I'd be more inclined to negotiate the money up front -- This is when you've got them by the balls. They're more likely to agree to whatever pops into your head at this point.
If you really really liked your ex-{company,boss} and/or you just want to get into your ex-boss' pants, all bets are off. I still think you should bill them for your time, but you're less likely to listen to me.
Re:Better not to burn bridges (Score:4, Interesting)
I personally consider it different if you left than if they laid you off or fired you. I wouldn't mind answering questions for people where I had left, but if I'd been laid off, they'd definitely have to pay for the information...
How would you feel if when you called up your previous employers asking for recommendations and they started discussing financial compensation?
Feh, how many companies these days will actually give recommendations or even references these days. Most places will do nothing more than confirm dates of employment and job titles. Why? Because of legal exposure. If they say anything bad (or even just not sufficiently good) they can get sued by former employees, and some employers have lost expensively. If they say too much good, and some other employer doesn't think an employee measures up, they can get sued for that too, and again some employers have lost expensively there too. So given the no-win situation, most large companies (and with-it small ones) say as little as they can get away with.
All that being said, if former co-workers who had nothing to do with who got laid off or fired asked for help, I'd probably have a softer attitude towards them than I would be to a manager.
I think it also depends on what terms one leaves the company on. If you left on bad terms and you don't want anything to do with the company, then I would give some sort of excuse for why you can't help them -- you know, like you are too busy posting on Slashdot or something.
I don't think you should have to offer an excuse unless you really just don't have the time for some reason. I think just expecting them to pay you for your time is enough. And if you just don't want to do it, you should be able to just say no, and not expect any retaliation from them (in terms of bad mouthing you on references or whatever). They had their chance, and let you go, so its their problem at that point.
Did they pay you? (Score:4, Informative)
They wouldn't provide you a company benefit you had for free now, believe me.
Re:Did they pay you? (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about it for a minute. If you don't insist on this, you are doing a disservice to yourself and anybody else in the job market.
You shouldn't give in to their ability to exploit PAST power relationships because you are a "nice guy".
She didn't say "Thank You" because she's going to make darn sure this never happens again. You can bet they are going to cover themselves now and she won't be calling you back. You were used and you should learn from this.
Re:Did they pay you? (Score:3, Interesting)
In the end, it actually sucked worse for them -- they sent stuff to me which, since I was no longer under nondisclosure, seems to constitute public disclosure and significantly cut down their patent filing rights. Also, they tried to get various other ex-employees to do stuff later on, and they refused, since they knew that they would not be paid. And, finally, it's nice to know that they won't bother me again.
Re:Did they pay you? (Score:5, Insightful)
That said -- don't ever go into doing a gig for any old employer without telling them up front what you will charge for it. If they've leaned on you to pick up the slack for years while you were their employee, they're used to doing that -- and it needs to be made clear up front that that's not the situation any more. If you don't do that, you have very little recourse when they decide not to pay you.
I quit a job I was at for six years. The other employees out of habit called or emailed once in a while when they couldn't figure out something. In general, to be friendly (because they were all people I liked) I'd answer if the answer was going to take me a couple of minutes or less, but once they asked me to *do* something or once the answer was going to take more than a couple of minutes I told them my consultants fee, and that for that gig I'd have to charge them. It drew a clear line, but also left relations open with no bad feelings.
When you get hard feelings it's usually because expectations were wrong... setting expectations up-front is a very important thing. It helps keep the balance between not burning bridges, and not being taken advantage of.
jim
Re:Did they pay you? (Score:5, Insightful)
To find your rate... (Score:5, Interesting)
For longer contracts (3+ months) you could reduce the rate by as much as half in exchange for a cancellation severance of a week or two. The cancelation severance is there since you're turning down potentially higher-paying short-term work... and if they cancel on you after you've turned down another deal, you are the loser. If they say it's long term, the cancelation fee is just your insurance that they arn't playing games to get a lower rate.
If they want short-term "one-off" work, you may want to charge more depending if you think you can get it. Further, if they want you to be "on-call", you want to charge a retainer in addition; this is pre-paid hours that they may not use (for instance, 10h/month). If they don't want to pay the retainer, then you should say something like: "Yes, I can help you, but my next available slot is XXX afternoon (3 days from now)." Slack time costs money... when you are an employee don't let your previous employer think that they can just pay for the hours that you are working for them. Real employees spend time doing lots of stuff which isn't directly work... and time is money.
One last thing to consider is ownership. You may want to dramatically reduce the rate if the work is open source, something you are interested in and you keep the copyright for further private exploation. Often times this is in their favor... you could build in a "free upgrade" for one year if you continue to work on it. Make it clear that ownership of the code itself is worth something. If you keep ownership, you may just want to charge your annual salary as a hourly rate (thus 2x your rate as an employee).
Hope this helps. I'm curious if others think that this is a resonable item.
Rule of thumb... (Score:5, Informative)
If X is the annual salary of someone who would be a full-time hire for the position, 1% of that per 8-hour day for consulting on a week-to-week basis, with an expected project length of about 6 months. That may sound high at first. But remember that the premium is paying:
- The employer half of social security
- other benefits (medical, dental, unemployment insurance,
- The administrative/paperwork time (either paying other people's salary and benefits or your downtime doing your own paperwork, which ISN'T billable hours once you've gotten beyond filling out a time sheet)
- Dead time between contracts.
- Time spent hunting for a new contract. (More dead time or a salesman's time).
- The consulting firm's profit (or your own increased dead-time when going it alone).
- A premium to the worker for the increased employment volatility.
For shorter term you charge higher, of course. You have to cover fixed costs from whatever you're paid.
Emergency service was going for $300/hour, four hours minimum, in the 1970s. Adjust that for inflation since then for an approximation of current rates. But this is a market issue so it's really "all the traffic will bear".
But this a former employer, and their mission-critical system is down. BIG difference. Company's in a bind, so the traffic will bear a lot. And it's a one-shot deal. So a big question is, what was the situation when you left.
1) You were a consultant hired to set up the system and go away.
It's warranty work. Same rate as before even for short-term. If it's only a couple hours or the crash was the fault of something you screwed up you might do it gratis.
2) you had been hired as an employee mainly to set up the system, with the expectation that you would be laid off when done.
Same as 1)
3) You left for a better offer they didn't match: Charge your new rate, or a short-term consulting rate based on it, if your current employment doesn't prohibit outside work. (If it does you should have asked, when signing, for a rider allowing such short-term moonlighting to cover trouble at the previous employer on a non-interference, non-compete basis.)
4) You parted on reasonably good terms because the previous company was in bad financial straits and couldn't afford you any more, though they really wanted to keep you.
More complicated. Do you still like the people? Are you still unemployed? Did they give you a good severance package? Do you expect them to try to rehire you if buisiness improves? Then fix it for them. If it's five-minutes of advice over the phone, maybe just do it gratis. But if you have to go over there, or login remotely, you GET PAID FOR YOUR TIME and you HAVE A WIRTTEN AGREEMENT before you start:
A) Charge a consulting rate based on your old salary, or
B) They can rehire you now - preferably for a minimum of another two weeks "in lieu of (another) notice" - and to be around to fix the fix.
C) If they're really hard up for cash they might swap you a laptop or something. (Note: You'll have to pay taxes on its market value.)
There are three important issues here:
i. You need a paper trail that you had permission to operate - that you were acting for them. Otherwise your ass is in a sling if they don't like your work, or something else goes wrong after they're gone, or if they're sued over something their system does and you're named in the suit.
ii. "A workman is worthy of his hire." You are a PROFESSIONAL. You trade your work for MONEY (or something else of value). This is true even if you and your boss are best buddies outside work.
They paid you while you were there. Then they decided they could do without you and let you go. Now they discover they were wrong - THEY, not YOU, must pay for the mistake. It is unfair to you and to all other professionals competing with you in the same market, for their bad decision to SAVE them money, COST you money, and COST the person they would have to hire to cover for you the opportunity.
III. There are LAWS about this: You did work for an employer. They must pay at least the minimum wage. You both must declare that you worked. If you're getting unemployment you lose it for that week. You're subject to significant criminal penalties if you lie about it. (And your permission paper, above, created a paper trail.)
4) They laid you off, terminated, or fired you under less than ideal conditions.
F**k 'em. One of two options here:
A) Let 'em stew in their own juice. They deserve it. And if you TRY to help 'em you can expect to be exploited repeatedly (while they laugh behind your back) and/or to be blamed for all screwups in the future - maybe in court, maybe on the grapevine, maybe when a prospective employer checks your references. (Just think: If you get work you won't be available to fix their problems, right?)
B) Find the highest amount a consulting firm would charge for emergency service to fix such a disaster for somebody they DON'T have a maintainence contract with. (Say it's $1,250/hour minimum four hours?) Now add a premium - because you're already an expert on their system and won't have to spend a half-day (or whatever) figuring it out. Then GET IT IN WRITING before you touch a thing. Include your time talking to them about getting it in writing and waiting for it to be keyed and printed up. Tell them up front that you WILL charge them for that time, so they should stop arguing and get the document ready.
Regardless of the situation, as a former employee you need the paper before you touch the system. (See 1. above.) Once the former boss finds out that the paper is needed (and what your terms are) you may find that the emergency isn't all that big after all. B-)
Re:Did they pay you? (Score:5, Insightful)
You hurt the profession otherwise, and you keep yourself or someone else from getting paid for the required work. And, you give something for free to the owners of the company. Work for free. Just say no!
I would (Score:5, Informative)
The old joke (Score:5, Funny)
You might not expect (i.e. probably can't force them) to get paid, but it does send the message that you are willing to help in the future, but you aren't going to do for free anymore.
Re:The old joke (Score:4, Interesting)
A company I used to work for had a pretty good record of treating women poorly, and long time employees poorly. They were an insurance company.
A lady who had been there for over 30 years decided it was time to quit. She walked in one day, without any real notice, and tendered her resignation. She gave a month, to be fair, but no one new she was planning this before hand.
She was a licensed (certified) actuary, and the entire actuarial department at this life insurace company. An insurance company without an actuary is like an accounting firm without an accountant, just bookkeepers.
She worked her month, took a long (about two month vacation), and came back. The first I knew she had quit was when I over heard one of the gossips back in my department (IS) griping about what she was making. The gossip in question handled the printing of checks.
The actuary came back billing $350 an hour, because they needed her services.
They kept her on like that for the rest of the time I was working there (about another year at least). They couldn't find anyone to take her place.
Entitled to payment (Score:5, Informative)
If you come home and find that somebody mowed your lawn, you do not own them money because you have no relationship.
If you're at a strip club and you say "no thank you" to a lap dance but she performs anyway, you don't owe a thing because even though they performed a service for which you would normally expect payment, you expressly said you don't want a business relationship.
If you see a kid mowing your lawn and you wave to him (or otherwise prove you know he was doing it), you owe him money. By acknowledging that he was performing a service for which you would normally pay you agree to a business relationship.
If you send a reasonable invoice, you can expect to be paid.
Vanguard
Re:Entitled to payment (Score:4, Funny)
Your ideas intrigue me, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
Of course you send a bill. And you get it paid (Score:5, Informative)
If they don't pay, you print "Past Due" on the bill next month, and send it again. Add 1.5% per month as a past due fee.
If they still don't pay after 90 days, you file a claim in small claims court. Very seldom do things reach that point. If you go to court, and you did the work, you'll get a judgement in your favor. Then either they pay, or you find out where their bank account is and get an order attaching it.
I have to tell this to some of my artists friends now and then. They're always doing little jobs for small businesses and not getting paid. All have been paid by the second invoice.
The one time I went back and did a job for a previous employer, I charged them about a thousand dollars for a weekend. And that was in the 1970s.
Surprisingly, you won't be hated for this. You'll b e respected.
Simple solution... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Simple solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Simple solution... (Score:5, Interesting)
I think he was most pleased with not realizing that, while on a conference call with the people who broke everything, the clients AND a lot of upper management were listening in, and based on what he'd said (ripping these guys a couple new assholes), the buffoons ended up being fired for a) making unannounced upgrades to a production system, b) completely failing to read release notes in the service packs they'd installed which detailed that *exactly* what happened would happen if they were installed on the version of software running.
The "$200 an hour, minimum 8 hours" was the result of several of us doing a post-mortem on the lowballing. In truth, due to the situation, he could have likely commanded at least twice that (which illustrates just how critical these systems were to the people with Big Bucks).
Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Did she pay you? (Score:4, Interesting)
You should have billed them. (Score:4, Informative)
I had already gotten a new job, but I was happy to work with em on an evening, for $70/hr
I mean, I would have at least charged them $10/hr. if I was you
Re:You should have billed them. (Score:4, Funny)
Be Polite (Score:4, Interesting)
Of course, if you want/need the work, then just go do it at whatever rate you think is fair. Just bite your lip and don't comment one way or the other, it only leads to problems.
I've been (close to) there... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I've been (close to) there... (Score:3, Interesting)
You see I'm am on the opposite end of this situation.
We recently layed off quite a number of our staff lately and I am left with one other employee in my department.
Before the others left, as they were filling me in on where they left off
I had asked if I could contact them via email to ask questions. Everyone of them said yes, and I wouldn't have been angry if they said no either.
I will note that I have asked questions from email or AIM and gotten answers and nobody was angry about it either.
Re:I've been (close to) there... (Score:4, Insightful)
Thank you for using ACME Consulting (Score:4, Funny)
Happened to me too (Score:5, Funny)
That was pretty bad.
Then he said, "Sorry for sending it to you so early in the morning, I need it for a lunch meeting".
It was actually a sales pitch at lunch.
I was pissed, but that didn't set me off.
He sent the email with a HIGH PRIORITY MS Outlook flag, so it had a red ! in my Inbox. !!!!
I debated sending a nasty flaming message regarding compensation for my time, etc.
Then I looked at my clock. 1PM.. Oops. Woke up too late to help you pal.
Installation-specific questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Installation-specific questions (Score:5, Insightful)
Short version was 'I'll answer whatever questions you have. Just take me to lunch for it.' They knew if things got too bad, I'd be able to give a helping hand.
They're only real mistake was hiring a paper sysadmin (one with lots of certs but no real experience or clue) to replace me. They did take me out to lunch once.
Re:Installation-specific questions (Score:4, Interesting)
If you're writing lots of documentation for an employer, you should be getting paid as a "technical writer". If you're employed as an I.T. worker and they're demanding lots of documentation - you need to question it.
After all, they should be paying you for your knowledge and expertise. Would you expect your doctor to write up documentation for you so you can self-diagnose future problems?
When they start asking for lots of this, there's usually a boss masterminding it, with a flawed idea that he can "brain drain" you so his other people can perform your job. In reality, they should be hiring people who already possess the skills they need, or are capable of learning them on their own. They shouldn't need *your* documentation to achieve that goal.
One way... (Score:5, Funny)
I've had this happen.... (Score:3, Insightful)
How much? (Score:3, Interesting)
If somehow you didn't get paid this time but you didn't explicitly say you were doing this work for free, draft up a bill and send it to them. Hey, it can't hurt.
Re:How much? (Score:5, Funny)
In the early years of this century, Steinmetz was brought to General Electric's facilities in Schenectady, New York. GE had encountered a performance problem with one of their huge electrical generators and had been absolutely unable to correct it. Steinmetz, a genius in his understanding of electromagnetic phenomena, was brought in as a consultant -- not a very common occurrence in those days, as it would be now.
Steinmetz also found the problem difficult to diagnose, but for some days he closeted himself with the generator, its engineering drawings, paper and pencil. At the end of this period, he emerged, confident that he knew how to correct the problem.
After he departed, GE's engineers found a large "X" marked with chalk on the side of the generator casing. There also was a note instructing them to cut the casing open at that location and remove so many turns of wire from the stator. The generator would then function properly.
And indeed it did.
Steinmetz was asked what his fee would be. Having no idea in the world what was appropriate, he replied with the absolutely unheard of answer that his fee was $1000.
Stunned, the GE bureaucracy then required him to submit a formally itemized invoice.
They soon received it. It included two items:
1. Marking chalk "X" on side of generator: $1.
2. Knowing where to mark chalk "X": $999.
I'm in the same boat. (Score:5, Insightful)
The first time after I left (I actually quit, was not laid off) that I got the call, I think I handled it the best way possible.
You tell them 'I'd love to help you out. You know I am consulting on my own now, right?'
Explain to them that you are your own business. Find a price that is fair... not unreasonably high, but something that is in a solid ballpark. I settled on twice of what I made hourly for the company. When you consider that a:) you are now going to have to pay additional social security as an independant consultant and are having to pay the costs of your own benifits (health care, etc.), and b:) You don't have a full time job, so a little extra is worth having.
Good luck to you. Remember, you don't work for them anymore. Of course you don't want to mean or vicious to them (to burn your bridges), just be freindly and professional. If you feel that you have some personal obligation to help them out, remember that when they let you go, it was 'just business' to them. Treat them the same way.
Good luck
Send a consultant greeting card - big fat bill (Score:5, Interesting)
Case study: $280
Rapid deployment fee: $843,00
8 workhours: 8 * $184,00 = $1472
Non-office hours: 4 * $380,00 = $1520
Travel expenses: 43 miles * $2/mile = $86,00
TOTAL: $4701
TO BE PAID: $4701 + taxes
DUE: TODAY
Your previous boss didn't ask for price. That means, he is prepared to pay anything.
invoice (Score:5, Funny)
Case study: $280
Rapid deployment fee: $843,00
The look on your boss's face when she gets the bill: Priceless.
Set Your Rate First (Score:5, Informative)
If you end up doing a lot of consulting work, you're going to have to get a business license and (depending on the state) get a tax ID number. Here's a pretty basic article [alistapart.com] about setting up a consulting business (although it's aimed at Web developers).
Passwords....... (Score:5, Informative)
I had one ex-employer, several months after I had quit, call me and ask for some passwords for their main development server... Mind you that half the office knew the passwords to the server, so its not like I was the only one.. There's no way I was going to say that I knew the passwords..
Liability? (Score:4, Insightful)
While I admire you for following your beliefs, I don't know that I would have done the same. Only if the livelihood of my friends at the company were jeopardized would I go for it -- or if the money was exceptional.
Nortel Networks (Score:4, Interesting)
It seems quite common (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It seems quite common (Score:3, Informative)
You have it reversed
Re:It seems quite common (Score:3, Informative)
That seems... odd. When I was working independently doing contracting, it was a two-hour minimum, and most of my business came from four or five customers who repeatedly called back for more.
Saying no (Score:3, Informative)
- Unlimited Power by Anthony Robbins. My personal favorite.
- Getting to Yes by Roger Fisher and William Ury. The classic negotiation book.
- Start With No by Jim Camp. I haven't read this one, actually, but it sounds very on-topic.
Good luck. Find your strength.I need a hand with my network (Score:3, Funny)
Thanks.
been there, done that, as a contractor. (Score:3, Informative)
If you are not on the books there could be legal issues if you make things worse, get hurt, etc.
Be sure that you are on the books as an employee/contractor/etc. whenever you do work for a proir company. This is for your protection as well as that of the employer.
It's all about being a professional. (Score:5, Informative)
If a former employer called me for help I would eveluate the request using the criterea:
1. Would helping my former employer violate any agreements I have signed with my current employer?
2. Did the former employer live up to their obligations to me as an employee, and treat me as a professional?
3. Did my employment contract with my former employer include any provision that I provide such services?
If 1&2 or 3 are satisfied I would fax the person a standard consulting contract with my hourly rates. On receipt of a signed contract I would then perform the requested services.
If not, I would decline.
Well... no. (Score:5, Interesting)
His other developer and his family had to live in a trailer - and the boss "gave" him a car and phone, only to hold them over his head. When he was sick for a few days, the boss had that phone disconnected.
The boss even proclaimed to be an experienced Europian developer, and he did fluently speak several languages... so I'm amazed he could treat people that way... and much worse than that on many occasions too. But his company was the only place that would even allow a computer person with less than 3 years experience find a job. He even made quitting a huge hassle - I had to research and quote many specific laws before he dismissed me with "it's not worth my time" to get paid for my two weeks there, even at minimum wage.
Now I'm still looking for a job... any job. And I can't. I haven't for months. I've called half the numbers in the yellow pages and looked at all the leads in all towns within three hours drive. I have to say, looking for work as a programmer in central Florida REALLY sucks.
Ryan Fenton
Certainly! (Score:3, Informative)
But if they were going to cop an attitude with me, my minimum would be the equivalent of 2 months of my salary at the time I left the company. Half (non-refundable) to be paid up front, the other half to be paid when I've completed the job they brought me on to cover.
In ANY situation, make sure you get a P.O. from them before you show up to do the work!!! It should state what the work is that they expected you to accomplish. If they start asking you to do other things while you are there, tell them to fill out new P.O.'s for those tasks separately, and determine an hourly rate to be charged for every hour spent on those separate tasks. Those separate tasks should be started when you are done with the work paid for by the first P.O.
Be professional! Do the best work you can. Remember, at this point you are an independent contractor. Your work should stand as a testament of what you are capable of as a professional.
Last, when you're done, make sure you give a clear list of what you diagnosed and what you did to fix things. Make sure that the person who authorized the work signs off on it. Don't forget to make a copy! (using their copier, naturally!)
Similar situation (Score:5, Funny)
Simple rules... (Score:4, Insightful)
You broke one of the most important rules of employment. Never Work for free! Not only does it assign a zero value to your time, but it assignes a zero value to the time of anyone doing that task.
The second rule you broke, taking a lesson from M$ here, is that if they need you, you've got them exactly where you want the. Grease it up with vaseline and give it to them good and hard, to the tune of at least $100/ hour for skilled IT consulting
Many people have posted that, "You don't want to hurt your chance to use them as a reference." But then again, you don't want them letting your prospective employer that you're a cheap date either.
finally, for the question of returning to any employer as an employee (and not an independant consultant). Remeber this adage... Old Jobs are like old girlfriends, Never go back
Depends on situation (Score:5, Insightful)
[1] Sue them!
and then
[2] How much can I get?
But I think it pays to think about your situation first. There may be some dynamics you might otherwise overlook.
Case A: Laid Off, Unemployed
If you're having problems finding a job, it may pay not to incite your former boss. You never know when your old firm may get a large project and decide to bring aboard some consultants.
While it hasn't happened to me, I have friends who were laid off, provided some occasional support at reasonable rates (this is *key*
Case B: Laid off, Employed Now
You have some incentive to maintain cordial ties with your old firm. But the incentives are definitely reduced by having current employment. If you hated your old firm and want to maintain loyalty with your current one, I'd just pass or agree under some pretty restrictive terms (i.e. define the total # of hours and compensation). Consulting money is nice but, clearly, your long term prospects are not tied with your old firm, better to focus on your current firm.
Case C: Quit
If you were the one who quit the job, I'd consider providing some support especially if you either [1] really left the firm holding the bag or [2] still have friends at the firm who would otherwise suffer. But make sure to get paid
You'd be surprised how this type of action can result in good karma. I had a friend who quit his job for a higher paying position at a high profile company. Unfortunately, lay-offs happened and, as a high-salary newbie, he was one of the first to go. His boss at the old firm - he couldn't rehire my friend - went out of his way to call a few of his competitors to recommend my friend - he did this primarily because he appreciated how my friend provided support (many times for gratis) for several months after he left. My friend got a job based on one of these recommendation.
Case D: Fired
No way in hell. Or make sure it's enough to pay for your big screen plasma TV, your sizable tab at the local watering hole, and possibly a year's rent
Don't burn bridges... (Score:5, Interesting)
Then one day I got a call from them. They had a customer who wanted some work done, but it was such a small job that just drafting the agreement would be more expensive than the job was worth. They contacted me and told me if I wanted to freelance the job, they'd put me in touch with the customer. I accepted it (of course). it turned out that it was too small for even a freelance charge, but I answered the guys question and it generated positive advertising for my previous firm.
A month later, I got another call from them -- another freelance job - this one was for the wife of the head of my old firm. I again accepted it and his wife was happy with my results.
Then my old manager called. He didn't have a freelance offer this time -- he wanted some advice on how to collect unemployment! (yeah, business got so bad the managers were being let go...) So I was very helpful & supportive of him too -- told him where to go to sign up, what the process was, etc.
Then I got one last call -- now I'm working full-time for my old firm again. They were so happy with my attitude and willingness to help them out even after letting me go that they found a spot for me & I'm gainfully employed again -- with my full benefits just like I never left (3 weeks vacation, I'm vested, etc). Admittedly, it WAS a paycut from my old salary, but in this market, I'm not complaining
Sorry about all the rambling. I guess what I'm trying to say in a nutshell is: Don't burn your bridges. Having a positive attitude and being willing to help them out can never hurt - it can only help. Even if they don't have any openings, they may hear of other firms that need people & could suggest you -- or give you a positive review when a future employer starts checking references. You never know when someone may be talking to them and your name may come up...
Got my money & some small revenge (Score:3, Interesting)
To add insult to injury I didn't get paid much of my accumulated vacation time. I'd been foregoing taking my time as we were in such a crunch, got promised it would carry over, etc. Due to poor record-keeping on my part (and being young and stupid) I didn't pursue the issue much but wrote it all off as lesson-learned.
Anyway a few moths later I got a call from a friendly former coworker asking me, in a very stilted way, about some security systems I had written, what was the password, etc. I picked up pretty fast that this wasn't actually a social call, that my friendly co-worker wasn't alone in the room, that they wanted me aware of such, and they were being pressured to make this call.
So, I told them no, I didn't recall the exact passwords but I was sure I could break into what I'd secured and would be happy to do so under contract. I then quoted them an outrageous hourly rate, said as I was unhappy with my former employer I' double that, and no assurance of how long it would take me. My friendly former co-worker politely thanked me and said they'd "pass it on".
Sure enough an hour later I got a call asking me to come in ASAP. So I did. I got them to confirm the rate in writing, refused to give an estimate, and sat down. And played games, very visibly, for two days, until the sum I felt I was owed in vacation time was met. About 10 minutes after that point, just as I was finishing up my report, the finance guy came in with a pre-written check (they knew perfectly well what was going on) and asked me for the password.
I handed him my report, told him I'd call from the bank with the password as soon as I'd cashed the check. He balked at that but I pointed out that many of my payroll checks had "bounced" but had been covered by the bank, I wanted to be sure there'd by no awkward problems with this one. He threatened to void the check if I didn't give them the passwords, I said fine I'd be no worse off then before, and if he didn't get out of my way I'd call the police for imprisonment. He gave way and I left.
So, 30 minutes later from the bank I called, told him the password used on everything, and then took some friends out for drinks, including the friendly former co-worker who had slipped out early. By the way the friendly coworker resigned the next day, the nasty Sr, person lasted another few months, the whole place went under a few years later.
Oh, and a few times later I was in situations where Sr. folks from that place were applying for jobs and I was in the decision process, each time I knifed 'em.
Don't allow yourself to be taken advantage of. (Score:5, Insightful)
At the same time do not let anyone take advantage of you. You said that this was a former employer. This immediately releases you of ANY responsibility or obligation to them, you don't work for them anymore!
This could be a slightly grey area if you had recently, within a couple of weeks, left the job on your own accord and the failed system was your responsibility. But, even here there is no REAL responsibility, simply a matter of your own moral feelings on the matter. But, you stated that this emplyer became former 5 months ago. No matter what the reason for your departure there is absolutely positively no obligation on your part after this period of time.
The next time you are presented with this situation, stop for a moment and think. First what are your feelings? Simply, do you want to do it or not? Secondly, review your current situation. Are you working somewhere else and are really to busy to spare the time or perhaps it may be a conflict of interest if you are working for a competitor now. In your case, you stated that you are unemployed so these would not be a problem here. You have time and there are no conflicts.
So, having decided that you can do it and that you want to do it, the next step is to specify the terms of a short term contract. Yes, contract. Even if it is only verbal you are still entering into a contract with this company. You need to come to an agreement on the type and amount of reimbursement for your time. You also need to agree to a set of milestones, if you will, that will be used to determine the successful completion of the contract.
For example, the situation that you related should have gone like this... Yes Jane, I am confident that I can resolve your problem. As it happens I am available to do consulting work of this kind, right now. My fee is $100 per hour for this type of work and I do charge travel time at that rate.
Janes response will likely be: "Wow, I don't want to pay that much." To which you should reply: "I certainly understand that but, that is a competitive rate in the industry and it is what I charge. I suspect from what you have told me so far that it might take 6 hours to fix your problem." At that point she will either say flat out no, and move on to another consultant, or she will say that she has to get back to you. This will give her time to get approval for the expenditure and also get estimates from other consultants. If she calls back make sure that she is in agreement to pay you for fixing the problem and that she fully expects to pay at LEAST $600.
Of course, Jane might decide to try to bully you when you advise her of your rate. She might say something like: "What?? $100 an hour?? No way. You built this system and it has never be right! It's your responsibility and I expect you to fix it immediately! I'm not paying you to fix your own mistakes. In fact, if you don't fix it, we will probably sue you!"
Your response to this should be: "I understand that you feel it is my responsibility, Jane. However, I do not work for you anymore therefore, it is NOT my responsibility. I'm sorry that you feel that I did not build the system properly however, the fact that it has worked for several months without me suggests that it was in fact, working properly. Even so, it is still not my responsibility anymore. But, I would be glad to look at it for you, as a consultant.
Finally, if Jane says that they are going to sue you, end the discussioin right then and there. Say: "I am afraid that, under the circumstances, I will not be able to assist you with your problem. I wish you the best of luck with it. Thank you for calling." click.... Naturally, this assumes that you do indeed not have any contractual liability to the problem. In your specific case, after 5 months, you didn't.
Intro to negotiating for younger contractors (Score:5, Interesting)
Here's how to bring up the topic of compensation if you're not talking to a particularly helpful one:
Jesus Saves (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but Jesus never had to fix a LAN.
Boss: "My Lord, could you get our 250-node token ring VAX LAN back online? You'll need to check every inch of the coax cable, duct-taping nicked insulation as needed."
Jesus: "Fuck that!"
waiting to get smited,
horati0
I've had worse (Score:4, Interesting)
One of the othe employees called me and told me (good friend) and advised that I call him. So I did, and within 30 seconds the server was up and all was dandy. I didn't get a thankyou, just a "If you do it again I'm going through with the FBI complaint".
The dumb ass he replaced me with switched out the BSD kernel for the GENERIC one which couldn't handle the apache requests without running out of file handles. Of course it's all my fault.
So consider yourself lucky she called for help. It could have been much worse.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
my story, or how I didn't get sued on my birthday (Score:5, Interesting)
Eventually they had the premiere of the movie, and I was invited. At this premiere I was told that, sorry, they had no more money, and couldn't pay me. They had overestimated the $$ in their bank, and it turns out the last of their money was spent on the refreshments for their premiere party. Sucks to be me, but I didn't counter them legally, it was less than $1000 and I just wrote it off as a loss and broke all connections.
About a year later, the same people thought that they were finally getting a bite on their movie, and decided they desperately needed to update their website. They contacted me and asked why they had never received the source code for their movie, as per the contract--they needed it so that so-and-so's cousin, who 'knew flash' could update the website. I told them, because I had never gotten paid, also per the contract. When they didn't pay me, I said, the contract was broken.
At this point they got really upset and brought in so-and-so's uncle the lawyer and told me that what I had made was a piece of crap and the money they already paid more than covered the value of the project. And that if I continued to resist, they would sue me.
This was on my birthday. I've never had a bad birthday since. No matter what happens, I will always remember how this one was worse.
Eventually, after spending half my birthday on the phone, I knew what I had to do. Like I said, the original amount just wasn't enough to call a lawyer about, and I decided this wasn't either. Also, I had no money and even if I won this case it would be on the other side of the country which was just more money out of my pocket. So I told them, ok, I'll give you the source code exactly as it is right now, and you'll leave me alone for good and neither one of us ever talks to the other one. Ok, they said.
What was my trick? My code (and my flash movies are highly dependant on actionscript) was completely uncommented. It would have been a beast for me to figure out, and more so for somebody else that knew flash as well as I did. And much more so for so-and-so's cousin that 'knew flash'.
In the end, they got off my back, I wasn't sued on my birthday, and I came out feeling like I had won anyway. Because they were never able to figure out my source, and were never able to update their website. (and incidentally, never sold their movie)
Re:my story, or how I didn't get sued on my birthd (Score:5, Informative)
If you feel you're being bullied -- your fax, your email, and your caller id are your friends. Lie if you have to, but never stay on the phone with a bully, do everything in writing. Written correspondence gives you a paper trail and it keeps you emotionally protected.
In your case, this lawyer would have sent you a letter stating that he was going to sue (and take everything you own). As a reply, you would have sent him back a registered letter, stating that his client still owed you X amount of dollars plus some reasonable late charges, and you would be happy to send him the code as soon as you got paid. At this point, the lawyer couldn't have done much. If he wrote back to you with some unreasonable demands, he would risk looking like a fool in front of the judge and even worst, he could even risk losing his license for breaking his professional code of conduct.
As to the original post, I have a similar advice. If you're not a good negotiator, cut the phone conversation short and fax (email is obviously not going to work if their network is down) a simple invoice for your work. It doesn't need to be elaborate, just something like "My services, to repair the LAN, are going to cost $1000 per day (minimum charge: one day). Will this work for you? " Date it and sign it and then wait for a response (and don't be bummed out if they refuse your offer, that's life).
Wrong way (Score:5, Interesting)
Beware that you open-hearthed behaviour could have caused more damage rather than help to yourself. There are times when old bosses start to talk too much about their ex-employees as "smarties that left hacks and bombs to spoil our work". And when you come back and do something in half-second, they may try to use it to make a serious accusation that you tried to crook them. While I have never seen such stories getting to courts, there are pretty real examples how ex-bosses tried to extort cheap work out of their ex-employees by playing such scenarios. Personally, many years ago, I was in such situation and things nearly ended in a violent fight inside a "respectable" commercial bank.
This is why... (Score:3, Insightful)
ALso, a minimum number of hours is also worth it. Min 3 is fair for most tasks like KIA server. Min 2 or even 1 if the task is pidly and you want to make the point. Also make it know that your charging system works like the telephone company's long distance system, only you count by hours and not minutes. Ie, you round up to the next hour regardless if you work 5 or 45 minutes into an next hour.
You should have all this stuff typed up in a contract and have it signed by the boss (no one else!) as soon as you get onsite. Without it, don't do any work. Also don't negotiate. That's the contract, take it or leave it. You need to have legalease wording that absolves you of all responsibility if the system breaks again after you leave. You need to make it clear that you can't be sued after the fact. I travel is required, include a blurb about mileage and the rate. Include text that says what will happen if they fail to pay by 30 days after service is rendered. Also say that failing to pay also includes a bad check.
Carry a carbon copy ticket book with you. As you work on different systems, write out what the system is and why you're doing it on the carbon form. Write down every system you have to touch and the major points of what you do to each. "Had to reboot border router." "Had to kick the DNS box in the nads". Before you leave have the boss (no one else!) sign the each carbon page (if you had to use multiple pages) and give them one set of the carbons and file away the others. This way you can show exactly what systems you touched. If their NT box breaks later and you didn't touch it, they can't blame you for it. It's also very wise to record all tty output (commands, stdout, etc). If you have a laptop with a CDR in it, burn two copies to disk. Both you and the boss should sign both. Give them one. Don't let them leave you alone at any point and time during the onsite visit. If you aren't alone, they can't claim you stole backup tapes from the locker or pissed under the raised floor.
Write every password they gave you on the carbon mentioned above. Include in your contract that they are responsible for changing every password they gave you after you leave. Also include that you are absolved from any future damages coming from said systems where the passwords weren't changed. Writing it on the carbon emphasizes this.
It's important to make sure the signatures are from a person at the company authorized to pay you. Odds are you old super isn't authorized to make such payment. The director of the dept is usually the person that can do such things. They could potentially claim that the person that signed the contract wasn't authorized to make such agreements. Don't give them a way out like that.
It wouldn't hurt to use a tape recorder for all verbal conversations and make that something else they agree to in the contract.
Have the contract say something about parking (if parking garage fees are incurred or if a certain parking permit is required for parking (tickets or towing are the penalty).
All these are just some of the ways you could potentially get screwed. It's better to take precautions beforehand than post mortem.
What did you do? (Score:5, Informative)
I think the key is What did you do for them? answer simple "Do you remember how this worked?" type questions, or did you diagnose and fix the problem for them.
It is fair to call up with simple questions that are just a matter either "No, I don't recall that", or "It worked like this...". They must be simple questions where you do not have to think. (If you are doing noting else at the time you might hold the line while their experts think out the problem, but don't think for them).
If they want you to think out the problem, you need to charge for services. Be reasonable, but remember you know the system so you are better than the average expert off the street!
P.S. If you are asked simple questions DO NOT think for them. I have been gotten in trouble because of this. In that case I went to my mentor with a simple question that was in his area of expertise, and he took the problem from me, and then complained to the boss that I left all the work for him. (I was asked to leave over that issue, so of course I'm ticked)
Never be a pansy. (Score:5, Insightful)
I see people in IT caving in to employers all the time, and it disgusts me. Remember, you are there because THEY NEED YOU. Never take shit that you did not earn (But learn to take it well when you have it coming). Never, EVER, let an employer act like you owe him anything. The best way to get ahead in IT is to be an arrogant prick, because if you just do your job well and act like a drone, people will have no reason to notice you and will walk all over you. You are there because you are better than anyone else they could have doing that job, never forget it.
Malcom X once said "It takes a nation of millions to hold us back." IT people need to think about that philosophy more often, because people take advantage of us, ignore us, and dump shit on us left and right, and too many geeks just sit there and put up with it.
Go to work naked carrying a gas can (Score:5, Funny)
Do it all the time (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm sure it's different for a big company, but I do what I do because I enjoy it. I've been offered to do more work again recently, but this time it's for pay because I'm more busy and thus my time is valuable.
That being said, it's one thing to ask somebody you're on good terms with. It's another to "demand" assistance and then not give help. Geeze, I work expect to at least be offered dinner or a few drinks in such a circumstance.
Reminds me of back in college, when I accepted food/drinks for fixing people's computers...
Evaluation (Score:5, Insightful)
- her entire corporate LAN was down
Meaning: It's costing her company 1 day of their capital. Unemployment is costing you 5 months of your capital
- helped her save the day
Meaning: You helped her save her job, even though she mismanaged by removing a necessary support position.
- my ex-Boss calls me and demands that I help her out. Boy what attitude. She did not even bother calling me back to thank me
Meaning: She's unpleasant and not a friend. She's blaming you for the problem and you believe it's your fault.
- an opportunity to make a little money off of your old company
Meaning: It's wrong to get paid by a company?? What is the purpose of any business (including yours)? It doesn't sound like you hang out there for fun. There's nothing wrong about receiving some sort of pay for your work.
- It doesn't pay to burn bridges, especially if they need something that you can provide
Not so: Getting paid is not burning bridges. You want to be known for the quality of your work, not your charity. How about your bridges that she burned?
I could understand if the item that broke was covered under warranty by you. If they were a poor charity or she was friendly I might even do them a favor.
- she knows that I'm a kind person
Kind people don't complain about what they have decided to give away.
Successful people make a quick decision and stick with it. It would be wise to work on your bargaining.
like the engineer who got called back (Score:4, Funny)
They had tried everything and everyone else to get the machine fixed, but to no avail. In desperation, they called on the retired engineer who had solved so many of their problems in the past.
The engineer reluctantly took the challenge. He spent a day studying the huge machine. At the end of the day, he marked a small "x" in chalk on a particular component of the machine and proudly stated, "This is where your problem is".
The part was replaced and the machine worked perfectly again. The company received a bill for $50,000 from the engineer for his service.
They demanded an itemised accounting of his charges. The engineer responded briefly
One chalk mark $1
Knowing where to put it $49,999
It was paid in full and the engineer retired again in peace.
This couldn't have come at a better time for me (Score:5, Insightful)
A few months later his host upgraded the server his site was on. I modified the templates for him at no charge - no need to burn bridges, and it was fairly easy for me to fix.
A few months after that, he tried updating the site and botched it - he did not download the files first, but instead used copies on his local machine already (downloaded before the server was upgraded). Once he started getting php error messages, he contacted me, accusing me of giving him bad instructions (actually, he said I "wrote the site incorrectly") and I need to fix it right away. Very demanding, very accusative, and unwilling to answer any questions. After a few messages full of him sidestepping my questions (presumably because he did not want to admit he didn't follow the instructions), I was able to figure out what happened, and told him that since he did not follow the instructions it was not my fault.
I told him I'd only charge for a half hour of work to fix it. I made the price low because I wasn't in need of the money - it was meant to get the point across that this work is above and beyond the original deal. The total cost to him would have been twenty-three dollars and fifty cents. He kept fighting me and insisting that he is not a moron. (his justification? "I'm the head of a marketing department." Oh, I'm sorry, you couldn't be a moron, then!)
After a week, I told him I would fix it on the condition that he never contact me again. I told him there was clearly nothing I could do to make him a satisfied customer short of doing everything for free. I told him I'd gladly lose twenty-three dollars just to never have to deal with him again. I told him I hoped the time he spent fighting me was worth no more than twenty-three dollars.
I don't regret burning that bridge. If the other party has no interest in reimbursing you for your work, then you're not really even buring a bridge - you're getting rid of excess baggage.
Re:It's wasn't jesus who said that it was gandhi (Score:3, Informative)
From the Sermon on the Mount. Okay, smart guy?
Re:mean people suck (Score:4, Funny)
I've been on the receiving end of that, after killing myself for about a year on one gig, they hire a full-time tech director. Turns out he wants to hire his buddy, and being smarter than the both of them, I represented a serious threat. Get this - the new guy told them they had to install accessible cable trays (in a school) down all the hallways because the cables I had installed in the walls/false ceilings "were'nt expandable". And the client bought it! Guess they never heard of a hub...or 802.11. And I'll bet the cables dangling out of the cable trays and the holes punched through the drywall look so much better.