Getting Started In Linux 642
In previous posts, I've asked for the Slashdot community to help me identify good books and websites for developers and I thought the response was really useful. This time, I'd like to ask you all for your recommendations for great Linux beginner books and also what you think is the best way of showing off Linux on TV. Read on for more info ...
I do this thing twice on month on TechTV's "The Screen Savers" where I try to show off something neat about Linux and Open Source software. At the end of each segment, I give out my email address for people to send questions. The question I get most is "What book should I get to help me learn Linux?" I have a couple of books that I do recommend, but I want to hear what you guys think so I can link to this conversation and have it be available for everyone to refer to.
Additionally, any tips on what you guys would think would make good open-source oriented TV and make people really want to try out Linux would be appreciated.
Linux books (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Linux books (Score:4, Informative)
I'd also recommend the O'Reilly Learning Linux/Redhat/Debian set. Well worth the money, and they deserve the endorsement.
Re:Linux books (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Linux books (safari) (Score:3, Informative)
Make sure you do a trial first. I've tried the service twice and found it slow and sometimes buggy. The selection of books is okay. I have access to a books24x7 corporate account through my employer, and it is a slightly more polished service with about the same selection of tech books. Neither of these services is something I'd pay for yet.
In Soviet Russia (Score:3, Funny)
Favorite book (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Favorite book (Score:4, Interesting)
Something I meant to put in my first comment re: Learning up above -- the most important thing, I would say, is to make sure you give 'em a book with the distro on CD. Those poor saps on d/u will appreciate it.
Re:Favorite book (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Favorite book (Score:5, Insightful)
Uh huh. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Uh huh. (Score:3, Funny)
Of course the next command they typed in after doing their symlink was 'man vi' and I was happy. There is still hope.
Re:Uh huh. (Score:3, Informative)
I've always found man pages to be somewhat lacking in depth. They're great for looking up a limited set of information about a command or topic and, don't get me wrong, a resource that can't be done without. Something else to point new users to are texinfo documents. The standards info textutils, info fileutils and info bash are something every newbie should be made aware of.
I just noticed your comment was geared towards AIX, so I guess this doesn't apply (not sure there), but texinfo for Linux I highly recommend.
Re:Uh huh. (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know how it is for other distros, but every debian package puts its documentation in
Re:Uh huh. (Score:5, Interesting)
GNU tried to innovate in unix documentation with info, but the results were dismal. This is the year 2002, documentation doesn't have to be like this. We have learned a lot about presenting formatted documents from the web. A replacement for manpages should have hyperlinks, semantic markup, good search functionality, a good command-line reader, a GUI reader, and most importantly, quality documentation. Documentation with good formatting, good use of hyperlinks, and standard sections for quick access to relevant information. A format with these things could blow both manpages and info out of the water. It could even become a standard format for more than just unix commands. It could become a self-contained manual for using a unix system in a way that manpages aren't, and info wants to be but isn't. Wouldn't that be nice?
Learn the command line (Score:3, Interesting)
Gotta love the tab key!
Re:Learn the command line (Score:5, Funny)
......
*weeps for humanity*
Re:Learn the command line (Score:2)
Re:Learn the command line (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Learn the command line (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Learn the command line (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, I saw chrisd on the Screen Savers showing how to set up a UT game server on a Linux box. He got to the part where you start the server, which required typing in a command with some arcane options.
On TV, it looked just as impressive as Richard Nixon did debating JFK. The camera zoomed in and tried to focus on the tiny text, but to no avail. The Screen Savers host rolled his eyes and made a snide comment; viewers were referred to the show's website to find a copy of this magical command sequence.
The command line does not make for good TV.
Re:Learn the command line (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, not having seen the episode in question I don't want to come across as being critical, but in general there are a number of things that can be done that would have solved this problem. For example; all professional lenses I've ever seen have a macro setting that allows one to focus on close objects, but requires a few seconds of tweaking the focus to get just right. But a scan converter and direct output of the computer's display would be better. The local news has something like this - they can zoom in on parts of their web page to show where you can find more information, etc. Maybe they weren't prepared for this; but I'd think a network like TechTV would be prepared to show screenshots...
The Screen Savers host rolled his eyes and made a snide comment
Again, I haven't seen the show so I don't know what was said, but it sounds like a technical problem or lack of planning is what caused the 'problem' - not chrisd or Linux. Any eye rolling or snide comments would have been completely out of line.
viewers were referred to the show's website to find a copy of this magical command sequence
This is what should have happened in the first place. Most people aren't going to sit in front of their TV with a laptop or wireless keyboard typing in everything that happens - it happens too fast and besides, most people are too slow at typing and following along with things. Having the commands posted online should have been planned from the beginning. Maybe a nice short article or tutorial explaining things, for those who missed the segment but catch it online. That's how I see the internet(1) being used in congunction with conventianal media such as TV.
footnote:
1 - yeah; I know 'internet' *should* be capitalized but it looks weird
Re:Learn the command line (Score:3, Insightful)
reality has no place on TV. espically on tech TV and screen savers. Only one of the hosts there has a clue.. and I have stopped paying attention to the show cince that wedding band appeared on megans finger.
Tech TV is NOT for anyone but the fresh newbie or clueless CEO that is trying to be techno-hip. what they need to do is shoehorn in their 8 hours of programming that they rerun over and over every day with a "screen savers" for the sysadmin. cover advanced topics and advanced things... in the morning become the Bloomberg of the IT caste... become THE channel that is on the tv in the rack in the server room.
Re:Learn the command line (Score:5, Insightful)
Please, no CLI! This is for newbies, and newbies don't want to know command line stuff. I have never seen Linux on TV where Chris or anyone else on tv who bothers to show even the simplest tasks accomplished without CLI.
Best thing to show on tv is that you can actually can get by without a command line. Show the config gui's. Show that you can accomplish real work without having to understand command line. CLI scares away newbies.
Newbies do not want to use CLI.
Newbies should not want to use the CLI
Newbies should not be expected by BOFH's to understand command line.
Newbies should experience free as in freedom. In the long run, that is the only real advantage we have.
Newbies need to understand where OSS comes from as a community, and how they can contribute to that community without writing code more than they need to "how Unix/Linux works".
Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now.
Carry on.
Demonstrage *the power* of the command line! (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Learn the command line (Score:3, Informative)
I don't think that people who don't want to learn to use the CLI will ever be happy with Linux in its present state. These types of users should just stick with Windows or MacOSX if they aren't willing to try to learn the CLI.
You have to learn the CLI if you want to use Linux in any sort of reasonable fashion. How could you possibly deal with, for instance, securing Linux without the CLI?
GUIs in general are pretty clunky for quite a few tasks (Linux GUIs especially), and the CLI is not. We should be teaching newbies to use each when it's appropriate, not to rely on clicking some magic boxes.
Re:Learn the command line (Score:3, Informative)
How could you possibly deal with, for instance, securing Linux without the CLI?
Bastille Linux [bastille-linux.org]. I'm not saying that it's a complete solution to every security issue a Linux user may come across, but it's a very newbie friendly way of locking down a box in the first place.
Re:Learn the command line (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't shrink away from it and say users don't want to know about it, or that it scares users away. Conversely, don't make out Linux to be only the command line. Don't spend too much time talking about the command line and shell scripting and how anything the gui does you can do from the command line. Completely ignoring a large part of the system that a user will need to use is dishonest. There is a healthy balance to be found.
Your other points are extremely poignant and I agree with them fully. Newbies should experience the freedom gained by using Linux, the sense of community in the Linux world, and one's ability to contribute to that community.
Good example for TV: (Score:5, Insightful)
Very visual, easily understood, and it'll appeal to everyone who's ever had that happen to them before.
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Uhh.. Mozilla is for WINDOWS, too (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:3, Funny)
Go to a site that makes you play whack-a-mole with pop-up windows in Explorer. Then go there in Mozilla.
Yeah, but, how are you going to get away with showing porn on TV?
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you linux guys that naive? Seriously. What company of any size just suddenly jumps to attention to appease the nasal whines of someone using -- and let's be honest here -- an oddball product? Standards compliance means, say it with me, nothing in this world that is essentially run by popularity contest.
'Tell[ing] them to fix it' means bringing in some HTML or JS or PHP or Perl or ASP or whatever jerk, who doesn't work for free mind you, to make it go. And, why again? Oh yeah, for 0.03 percent of all potential clients. Ideally, sure, that's just what happens, but in the real world that e-mail never even gets read.
Your idealism is heartwarming, but in order to "tell" anyone anything, you'd better bring some actual business reasons that aren't comprised of a whiteboard presentation of HTML standards and a pocket-full of hope. You (and I) as Mozilla users are ostensibly alone and no one hears our screams.
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Good example for TV: (Score:5, Insightful)
The Screen Savers (Score:3, Informative)
Running Linux (Score:5, Informative)
The fourth edition of Running Linux [oreilly.com] came out this month. Great for beginners.
First the basics... (Score:5, Funny)
The Great Failure [tripod.com]
And dont forget The Communist Manifesto
Whee (Score:4, Funny)
VMWare
Try THAT under Windows!
Re:Whee (Score:2)
Re:Whee (Score:2, Informative)
I know this was a joke, but it can work. (Score:3, Insightful)
When I was working high-level tech support for a major ISP, a small number of us got approval from our boss (and pissed off the IT department) to reformat our workstations, install Red Hat, and then drop the demo version of VMWare in on a trial basis, installing NT 4.0 (it was a while ago, but a lot of shops STILL use it, you know).
We could use things like Matt's Traceroute and other stuff that we normally had to ssh into production machines for, we didn't have to deal with those stupid NET MSGs from the lower level teams, and we could still use Microsoft Office apps (we had the licenses already) to fill out our expense reports and use IE for whatever internal webservers had been built using ActiveX or other IE-only stuff.
I think if you show this type of thing, you can get people hooked. Especially if you take a windows-crasher test program and show it running under WinXP vs. WinXP-in-VMWare. BSODs become a joke, a chance to say "silly old MS" and restart the virtual PC.
The accountants for small businesses should like the fact that they won't have to burn the money they paid for licenses, like I mentioned in my example. I think IT people will still grumble because for many people IT = MS (MCSE drones, etc.) and they don't want to have to learn new stuff and support it.
jump right in (Score:3, Informative)
Re:jump right in (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:jump right in (Score:5, Insightful)
I definitely agree though that for the hackers and tweekers your way works best in the long run. Often times when I am helping a friend with a Linux question the first thing I say is "Well open up a terminal window and then..."
Re:jump right in (Score:3, Interesting)
I agree with your main point, though. I learned most of what I know about Linux on slack; Red Hat 5.0 seemed like my blindly clicking a bunch of dialogue boxes that masked the internal operations of the machine. However, I didn't switch until I felt confident in my ability to navigate man pages and the web to find what I needed.
Re:jump right in (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:jump right in (Score:3, Insightful)
A book will help a newbie get the info they need and help them understand it, and they'll be able to quickly reference it in the future. A book has a lot more space to explain options and arguments than a man page does.
People learn in different ways. This TV show isn't targeted at the people who would just, out of the blue, decide they wanted to try it out. They need to be shown what it can do and why it's neat. That's not likely to be a person who will want to learn what commands do by digging around.
Sobell's A Practical Guide to Linux (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Sobell's A Practical Guide to Linux (Score:4, Informative)
Whilst the content of other texts may be more extensive it is no good if you can't find what you need. Running Linux falls into this category - a great book until you come across the Practical Guide, after which the other manuals start gathering dust.
Linux Superbowl Commercial (Score:2)
"Cooperation... Makes it happen."
"Cooperation... Working together."
(Dig it)
Maybe change Dig It to Linux. But maybe not.
some useful sites (Score:5, Informative)
www.linuxdoc.org (Linux documentation project)
www.xml.com/ldd/chapter/book (linux device drivers 2nd edition)
www.advancedlinuxprogramming.com
ftp:/
sources.redhat.co
www.scyld.com/network (network device drivers)
linuxassembly.org
linuxsocket.org
ker
freebooks.boom.ru
www.maththinking.com/bo
A Book just doesn't cut it (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A Book just doesn't cut it (Score:5, Insightful)
Err yes they should and that goes for anything technical. Reading and training are essential but practice is most important. We're not learning to ride a bike here. I think what your trying to say is that reading a book on programming isn't going to make you a good programmer because it won't. Often I see ppl ask dumb questions that could be solved by typing in a man command. I think the absolute first thing any newbie should read are these 2 documents ->
Asking smart questions [tuxedo.org]
How to report bugs effectively [greenend.org.uk]
Re:A Book just doesn't cut it (Score:5, Insightful)
Furthermore, 'ease of use' is no longer a valid argument in the battle for the desktop. An office worker using X Windows has no more reason to open a command prompt than one using MS Windows. Star Office and Mozilla are accessible through icons, and the filesystem is easily accessible through Konquerer or Nautilus.
People who are resistant to switching to Linux are mostly that way because of their preconscious memories of the painful, slow learning process that they struggled through when they learned MS Windows. They fear 'learning a new operating system' when they don't even feel confident in the one they have been working on for a decade.
It is such a wonderful feeling when I show people that X Windows is just like MS Windows. Everything is done by clicking on buttons and files can be cut, copied, and pasted just like they are used to. Star Office 6 looks so similar to MS Office and Corel Office and Lotus SmartSuite that there just is no learning curve. They are immediately productive on their new, free system.
Well I have to go now and spread the joy of Linux elsewhere...
PS. What in the heck did you do for 100 hours? It took me about 10 minutes to tweak Redhat the way I like it.
Aren't you the guy they call "Lefty". . . (Score:3, Insightful)
By the way, you're right, Linux isn't intuitive, neither is Windows. People have to learn Windows. They use, ummmmm, books to do it. Go into Borders and look at all the books on Windows explaining how "intuitive" it is.
"Ok, now click this, pull down that, go over to the other thing, don't ask us what it's called, we don't know either, now stick out your left elbow and scratch the cat with your right foot and chant . . . "Please don't crash again.""
Yeah, intuitive. No book reading needed here. The Video Professor must be some sort of philanthropist paying for all those ads, just for something to occupy his time, because "Windows is intuitive."
This is the single biggest load of malarky that anyone ever says about Windows, or Macs for that matter. Windows and Mac OS's are *learned.* They only seem intuitive because you've already learned them. My 70 year old mom learned KDE alongside her Mac OS8. She prefers KDE.
It's "intuitive." Or at least it was *after she had learned it for a while.*
*Linux* just works. Most of the Windows books at Borders, however, are about how to make Windows work despite itself because it's "intuitive."
Linux *at the command line* is arcane, but just works. Always.
English is arcane too but most one year olds manage to pick it up. They even resort to reading books by the time they're five or so. You should read one too. Maybe that install wouldn't have taken so long if you'ld read the bandsaw manual and had both hands to work with. My last install took about half an hour and consisted of putting the CD in the tray and clicking "Ok, whatever" a couple of times.
Wish I could do that with Windows, but the Goddamned wizards puke on drivers all the time and keep asking for second floppies that don't exist because "Windows just works" and is "intuitive." To uninstall a program cleanly I had to hack the "intuitive" registry and to make the "Start" button do something as simple as change its label I had to hack the *binary code* of the GUI shell itself because Windows "just works" and is "intuitive."
But at least people seem to have "that kind of patience" for this stuff.
Well, actually, they don't. A study about stress in the workplace revealed that the majority of stress in the workplace these days came from their computers not working right, computers running Windows, which "just works" and is "intuitive."
Am I anti MS? Damned straight. After more than a decade of being a loyal customer they damned well made me that way and they damned well deserve it.
Am I anti Windows? No. I'm writing this under W98 right now.
But it DON'T "just work." And it AIN'T "intuitive."
Tell you what, use your remaining hand to crack a a book. I'd recommend you start with Vonnegut's "Welcome to the Monkey House." From there go on to reading the bloody manual. It might save your remaining hand. And get your kids bike assembled in time for Christmas-WITHOUT any "spare parts" left over.
KFG
My first Linux Book: (Score:5, Informative)
This was the book I read before even touching a Linux terminal. It was an invaluable lesson in the ways of Linux and provides a nice gentle intro for new users (and by new, I mean new to Linux, not computing. A good deal of technical understanding is required to appreciate this book. Not for Grandma is what I'm trying to say...). The 4th Edition just came out so it's all up to date again, and I would reccomened it to anyone interested in, well, Running Linux. This book is much more useful to a new user than Linux in a Nutshell since it is a narrative guide to learning Linux, and not a reference book like Nutshell.
I wish this had been my first Linux book (Score:5, Interesting)
Then I got Running Linux. I was up and going in no time and years later I still refer to it. At this point I don't recommend *any* other book for the newbie. There's no fluff in this book. It's the straight dope, dense but completely readable, technical but not over the newbie's head (at least if they're the sort who's eyes don't glaze the second you say "compiler," but I don't think of The Screen Savers viewers in that catagory), more in depth where it needs to be than any other newbie manual I've ever seen while at the same time running a broad overview of everything you need to at least hear about ( and refering you to other great O'Reilly books that cover the subject in greater depth).
Throw in Linux in a Nutshell and the Armadillo book ( Essential System Administration) and you've pretty much covered everything you'll ever need to keep a basic Linux system ( or network) up and running in any enviroment from your home desktop to the small corporation data center.
These three books are the grand triumvirate. The first to buy, the first to read and the first you'll turn to when all others have failed you in some way. All others are but shadows on the wall of the cave.
Beyond these three the first book a newbie is going to want is a dedicated manual for his choice of text editor, that would be vi of course. Running Linux gives an overview and In a Nutshell gives a reference but nothing beats a dedicated book for learning. Once you know it pretty well you'll keep it on the shelf but really only need In a Nutshell for a quick reference. O'Reilly wins again here with their Learning the vi Editor.
Ok, ok, some wrong thinking people are going to want to go with emacs instead. For them O'Reilly has Learning GNU emacs.
Congratulations, your viewers have just gone from newbies to system admin gurus in just four short books.
Here's where I step away from the crowd a bit. I'm a firm believer that any serious Linux newbie should do a little programing right off the bat, and do it in C, on the command line. O'Reilly loses here. The two volume C For Dummies books are the ones to grab. They're the best Dummies books I've seen. They're the best newbie intro to programing books I've seen for that matter. Not for the hardcore geek, but complete, understandable and fun. They'll have grandma writting her own prank commands in a couple of hours and LIKE it!
Now we've gone up to a full library of Linux books, all the books most people will ever need, including C programing manuals, and we haven't even used up a foot of bookshelf space yet so I guess throw in the Camel book for good measure.
Done, your viewers are now Linux grandmasters and *still* have a couple inches short of a foot of bookshelf space left they can fill with whatever special interest book catches their fancy from what they learned in Running Linux.
What can you do on the show to impress people with Linux? Damned if I know. The most impressive things about Linux aren't visual. In fact the *most* impressive thing about Linux is *philosophy.* Not in the philosphical sense itself, but what that philosophy *means* to the average user. No one really explains that well.
vim doesn't break. vim doesn't change to an incompatible file format to force you to download the latest version. All files written in vim are readable by all versions of vim and *all other text/word processors.* No lock in, no lock out. Ever. If the current maintainers lose interest, because it is open source, *any* programer with the interest can just pick it up and start maintaining it-without even having to ask permission (although this is good form), let alone spend years with a room full of lawyers to make the arrangements. If you don't like something about vim and are willing to put in the work you can bloody well change it yourself, at will, again without even asking permission. YOUR vim is yours to do with as you please.
And because all of this is possible with a Linux system running GPLed software tens of thousands of programers are working at it around the clock, so even if *you* never touch a line of code you directly benifit from its openness.
This is the true power of Linux, this is the part that's truely impressive. You can't show it. You have to explain it. Explain what being ope *means,* and means to *them.*
And what it means is freedom.
What feature is more important than that? Can MS or Apple match Linux, *feature for feature?*
KFG
Hrm..... (Score:5, Funny)
Some Suggestions (Score:2, Interesting)
For The DeveloperShow how easy it is to setup Apache/PHP and start rolling out web apps...
For The Office TypeShow off OpenOffice, it's MS import capabilities, equations marksup (For The Artsy Type [gnome plug] Show 'em art.gnome.org to point out the thriving arts community, 100% free gimp
I'm not sure why everyone is set on reading "dead trees" for Linux info, it's all out on the web! I, myself, learned from the great Red Hat online docs...
That's my 2 cents worth.
OT: Anyone summarize previous query responses? (Score:5, Interesting)
Since the submitter (chrisd) asked for opinions and got feedback, wouldn't it be nice if someone filtered the responses and provided a digest? The original queries were for books for developers and books for web development. Furthermore, if someone already has done some filtering, it would be great to see the results.
S
What to show on TV (Score:4, Interesting)
It would be beneficial to many average users to see that Linux can do all of the every day tasks they perform. Show them the simple things. They can use email, web browsers, play games that come with kde or gnome, and still play web-based games like Yahoo! Pool. Getting them started on something they feel comfortable with will be an easy step they can make. Then they can move onto controlling and customizing the OS one piece at a time.
Show Knoppix (Score:3, Insightful)
My first two books (Score:5, Informative)
Linux Books (Score:3, Informative)
-O'Reilly:Linux in a Nutshell (good reference, somewhat bad as you need to know command)
-Sam's: Slackware Unleashed
-Coriolis open Press: Linux System Administration Black Book
-Sam's: Linux Complete Command Reference
Finally:
- Sam's: Maximum Linux Security
Day to Day (Score:5, Insightful)
It was only later that I found out you could wordprocess, play games, and do many other things. I would suggest showing how to do everyday stuff, as a comparison to Windows and/or OS X. I don't mean a "see Linux is better 'cause it doesn't crash and it does this and doesn't crash and..." kind of stuff. I mean showing that you can play MP3s and they work just as well as under windows. And that they sound just as good as under windows. Show a wordprocessor or two. Show some web browsers. Show it can play shockwave flash, java, and other things. Show Quake III and UT2k3. And make sure to point out that the performance is always like in windows, if not better. I don't mean braging, but more of "see we're just as good." Show how Linux can be used for many things. Play a DVD, burn a CD, etc.
Other than the above "practical" things, show some neat stuff. Show a few windowmanagers. Sure there is GNOME and KDE, but what about showing Enlighenment, WindowMaker (my fav), and other cool ones. Show Quake III in one window, UT2K3 in another (or maybe just two Quake III connected to eachother) and have something else up doing something; to show that Linux is good at juggleing things.
I know you've shown at least one of these things in the past (MP3s) but I don't get to watch much TV lately. And of course, these are just my ideas. I'm sure the other posters have come up with some cool ideas by now.
books (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up (Score:5, Insightful)
Likewise, Linux users need to drop the whole "All Windows users are morons" attitude, because the odds are pretty damned good that at least 3/4's of those preaching the message are probably doing so from a Windows box. I'm on one right now. It's not long left in this world, however - I just need some disk space on the network to back up everything before I format the disks.
Hey. We all have to start somewhere. At least respect the fact that some of us are *interested* in Linux.
*Jump* at the chance to add another one to the fold.
Do what you can to help others out. This doesn't mean "go to LUGs and help out people". This means to actively keep an ear out for people who are interested in Linux. You might view it as signing a support contract for life, but the fact of the matter is that if someone's interested in Linux, you probably wouldn't have to support him for that long, and they're probably wanting a minimal amount of handholding anyway (Since they're being adventurous enough to switch OSes).
You want Linux to succeed? Show people why it's better. If Windows works for them, that's fine. Leave 'em the hell alone. If they come to you with a problem one day, though, then think of a way that Linux can solve it. It might be just the ticket.
Linux On TV... (Score:3, Funny)
The commercial opens with the side of a large house shown. This house has many, many windows, some ornate, some plain. After a few seconds, a baseball smashes through one of them, shattering it. After a few more seconds, another baseball smashes another window. Several quick cuts of different windows being smashed by more and more baseballs. Cut to a pile of baseballs laying on the ground. After a moment, a black CG flipper reaches down and picks one up. The camera follows the ball to reveal Tux, wearing a ball cap bearing the "official" Tux logo, and he's got an EVIL grin. The final cut to the product screen, which says "Linux: Smashing Convention. http://www.linux.org" and a final sound of a ball shattering glass.
Let the Love Fest Begin...
Why buy anything? The best is free! (Score:5, Informative)
I've bought different linux books in the past to try and get me started, and none were as good as the LNAG. Best of all - it's free! Read it online, or download it and print it off at work to piss off your co-workers.
- Dave
Show OpenOffice... (Score:2, Insightful)
I think I might help here... (Score:5, Interesting)
During the first programs, I started off showing and explaining what was all the Linux fuzz about. The program was oriented to basic level users, of Microsoft operating systems.
So, the idea was to show different desktop environments and window managers on the first weeks, to give the public the feeling that the Linux desktop could be as friendly as you wanted to make it: KDE [kde.org] went first, and it was one of the public favorites. Gnome [gnome.org], AfterStep [afterstep.org] (my personal favorite), BlackBox [sf.net], IceWM [sf.net] and enlightenment [enlightenment.org], all had their time. Later on I began showing different applications for different purposes: konqueror [konqueror.org], evolution [ximian.com], xmms [xmms.org], mozilla [mozilla.org] and The Gimp [gimp.org]. Other intresting apps shown were gkrellm, xmame, openoffice, abiword, gnumeric, terminatorx, grip and the like.
I wanted to show the public that there was an alternative for almost every piece of software that they were used to use on Windows. And that those alternatives were so efficient as their counterparts, more stable and more important, free.
Then we explored deeper on the *NIX side of Linux. I started showing off tips for general purposes, some shell commands and tricks, etc. On every program there were phone calls with questions which were answered live, as well as email messages with problems which we tried to solve.
Overall it was a nice experience, and in a certain shape, it was my way to give back to the Linux community all I have taken from it.
Please excuse my poor english, as it is not my native language (tho I try to do it as best as I can). Anyways I've tried to make my point as clear as possible.
Re:I think I might help here... (Score:3, Insightful)
Jeebus. It always fascinates me how people will post these near-perfect-english posts that are more clear and concise than what I usually write, and someone goes and says that english isn't their first language. To do some pigeon-holing, I have a suspicion it's a european humility thing. But that's just a guess.
-Rob
Linux From Scratch (Score:2, Informative)
I think the best first step is to familiarize yourself a bit with the console by using a modest distro like slackware. Read a few newbie guides, etc. etc. and then go hit the big boy, Linux From Scratch [linuxfromscratch.org].
It's not that you are getting a huge speed increase due to compiling all packages yourself (because you aren't), and it's not because of ease of use (because it isn't 'easy'), it's because you learn. Essentially, LFS is a book that tells you how to get a new Linux system started without any distrubution whatsoever. It gets your familiarized with the fundamental workings of a Linux system, which is key to understanding Linux. While it is diving head first, you will learn by necessity how to use Vi(m) and all the cute little workings of a standard Linux console.
I have a hard time recommending any other way of getting started
(By the way, there is a great little LFS newbie reference right here [linuxfromscratch.org])
Price sensitivity (Score:5, Insightful)
(Somebody asked, in another topic, why you saw nothing but flat panels in TV and movies now. It's partly because they look good, but there's the practical problem that synching displays with cameras costs a lot more than flat panels.)
Not really a book... (Score:2)
For people who don't want to look it up, it basically has you compile a custom version of linux on a separate partition. Since you have to install everything from scratch, you are forced to learn what everything does.
Great generic *nix book (Score:5, Informative)
Graham Glass is a skilled writer who is capable of introducing complex topics and commands easily to the reader, regardless of their skill level. His book benefited me greatly, and even allowed my father to gain a good footing in unix commands and philosophy.
I have recommended this book to numerous people over the years, to people who just wanted some familiarity with unix commands, to people who were interested in learning Linux, to students looking for interesting things to delve into, and to many others. The book has benefited them all. Although it is not directly a Linux book, it is exceptional at providing the tools necessary to use any unix-like system. This makes this book a wonderful reference or a great starting out point if you're just beginning.
In other words, I highly recommend it.
Start with Rute! (Score:4, Insightful)
Start with Rute [sourceforge.net].
Linux for beginners: Knoppix (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux on TV (Score:5, Insightful)
Either that, or have Linux performing some intensive server oriented task, alongside a computer running one of those other, more common OS's. Show how Linux does more and does it faster.
The title belies its true value (Score:2, Informative)
install something without reboot (Score:3, Interesting)
Another good idea would be to show them some of the free software out there. if they need to edit some pix, they can just d/l the gimp... no need to pirate/look for cracks.
One last thought about helping people that are new to linux: it's a completely different perspective of an operating system. It's taken from a muilti-user perspective, whereas windows is pretty much one person on one computer. Once you understand this, things make more sense..especially the file system layout. when i first started i always wondered why everything went on / instead of breaking it up into drives. and why do i have a home directory? if you tihnk in terms of only one person on a computer, it's hard to get the concept.
The only thing you need to know... (Score:4, Funny)
Another site... (Score:3, Informative)
Don't think anyone posted that yet.
3 Req's (Score:5, Insightful)
2. Neatest Thing: NFS. Show them how remote servers appear as as completely transparent subdirectories of Home and not as drive letters or mappings outside of the C: drive. Simple, but amazingly natural compared to the default Win method. (Yes, XP and 2K do mounts but not as default.)
3. Best Book: None. Google Groups all the way. Anything a newbie could ask has been answered ad nauseum and there's no chance of alienation from RTFM if you don't ask in the first place. Distro forums are also a valuable source of information.
Depends on the user (Score:3, Informative)
Sobell's "Practical Linux" is good, as someone noted. Lasser's "Think Unix" is also excellent, and the only text I know of that does such a good job of explaining why Unix is *different*, not just in command names but in philosophy and structure. It's the grammer to Unix, where most other texts are only the vocabulary.
I also used to recommend the install and reference guides for Mandrake's distro, as I found it one of the better newbie guides around. I haven't read it over in a few major versions, though, so I don't know if this is still true.
Linux Cookbook is pretty neat... (Score:3, Interesting)
Define Beginners ... (Score:5, Insightful)
For the power beginner the O'Reilly books will do, as a number of people have mentioned before.
The absolute beginner won't be able to make it through all the geek speak in O'Reilly books. Although I hate to say this probably a "dummies" or "idiots" book would be better. I remember seing also a "visually" series with lots of pretty pictures. Which one of those I don't know, I'm a power user.
Confirms all Linux problems (Score:5, Insightful)
These people are newbies. They don't know what man is. They don't know what bash is. Many of them don't know what a CLI is, and if they do, have no idea of the power of the Linux CLI. They probably don't even know what a distro is. They've probably never even installed Windows, much less any sort of *nix. They need their hand held, people . This is the exact attitude preventing main stream adoption of Linux.
HOWTOs (Score:5, Informative)
Oh yes, and find a Linux user you can ask for help when you get stuck!
Missing two important points (Score:3, Insightful)
The first one is what you expect to find on Linux. You can be sure that you don't get the same thing as Windows. So any expectations should be put in the typical rule of economics: "You choose something for the price of loosing the other choices". However, take into attention that this thing is more tricky than it seems. You may loose some present choices, which, in the moment you are now, may be very important for you. However nothing can be said about the potential of your choice. Here you may obtain some important personal victories or get such a slap in the face, that you will always flame Linux for the rest of your life. To avoid such desilusions, you should not only read books and news, but also take care to search for real goals in this world. Linux, and *NIX in general, is a world too vast and too amorphous to show you a direction. Here there are no arrows and signs asking where do you wanna go. You choose your path.
But here enters the second important factor. On choosing your path, you will have to manage this new system. And this is not so simple as it seems. For the last years, a lot was done, that approached the *NIX world of interfaces to the more common Windows GUI. But, still the *NIX never has lost its rawness in the bottom line. Besides, it keeps paths of development that go quite far from what you may expect in Windows or some other systems. The *NIX world is a mix of rational conservatism and risky progressism. Coming here, brings a feeling much like the one that some people may find on changing cars of different countries. Imagine that you go from an confortable american car, for which you are offered service, maintenance, features and choose a rough jeep where even the driver sits in the "wrong" side. Worse, this "jeep" is much like those weird australian cars that made so much fame in certain stories. A mix of an old car and some fresh new technological mess. With exception of a certain skeleton, everything else is what you put into it. You may find a mechanic or some service that may check and maintain some general parts, but which will surely not help in everything you have there. By changing cars in this way, you will get some sort of psychological shock. You will get some feelings about the positive and negative effects of this change, you will be surely forced to change some driving habits, and you will surely need to know, more deeply, the mechanics of the monster you drive with. However, there can be a big danger here. Before you get real acquainted to the positive or negative effects of your move, despair may overcome you, and you quit early in the race. That's what happens to 90% of the people who try Linux. Unfortunately, the majority does it in a very superficial way, much like installing a new game, so, their critics cannot be taken seriously. The *NIX world is rough and wild. It needs time to reach the level of flexibility you may need to feel confortable in it. So think, that no matter the books and howtos, you may need some good months of patience before you can make a wise and weighed judgement.
And remember - negative results are also results. There can be lots of them before reaching a certain level of practice and knowledge.
A very nice piece has been written about this... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm not writing this to berate you or get into some political issue about giving GNU credit, although I do think that's important. (Actually, I still slip up and write Linux instead of GNU/Linux, or NIC card instead of NIC or network interface card. [hey, it happens
The fastest, most effective way to turn a user off to GNU/Linux and send him back to his Windows or Mac box is to tell him that the easiest way to do any task is through a CLI.
Avoid books that say that if you can.
Yes, I know that's the truth sometimes (one of the great parts about *nix is that everything is scriptable, and scripts are great tools for getting things done), but Joe User wants to do everything graphically. The problem is that Joe User is already very comfortable with a GUI, and so even if there were a task that he wanted to do on a regular basis that would be easier on a command line, the extra work and annoyance of having to get used to a CLI would more than balance out the gain in productivity.
Getting started with custom kernels (Score:3, Interesting)
My article Why We Should All Test the New Linux Kernel [sunsite.dk] gives some tips on how to get started building new kernels (although it emphasizes testing the development patches).
The #kernelnewbies IRC channel has a website at www.kernelnewbies.org [kernelnewbies.org] that you will find helpful.
And finally there is of course The Linux Kernel HOWTO [tldp.org].
Linux books (Score:5, Informative)
I still highly recommend Slackware [slackware.com] for a distribution. It's what we use on all our servers, and my workstations (Home, Work, and Laptop)
I bought a co-worker Linux System Administration: A User's Guide [amazon.com] by Marcel Gagne. Published by Addison Wesley. Flipping through it, this seems like a very good book. It seems to be working out. He's coming to me with very intelligent questions after reading chapters, rather than "What do I do at the prompt".
After the Unleashed book, I personally got into the O'Reilly [oreilly.com] books. If you do this, go to the store with the company credit card, it'll be expensive. Oddly enough, most bosses are ok with paying for books, even when they're being tight with equipment. You can't get a new $5 CPU fan, but you can spend $500 on books. Hmmmm.. Well, buy more books.
O'Reilly Essential Systems Administration [oreilly.com]
Learning [oreilly.com]
the Unix Operating System (got it for my girlfriend, so she'd understand what I was doing all night)
vi Pocket Reference [oreilly.com]. It seems none of my coworkers could use vi before I got to this office. Now they're all using it. [esc][esc]:wq!
Programming Perl [oreilly.com]. If you're going to play with Unix, you should learn Perl.
Then you should read up on what you're working with. If you're networking or on the Internet, TCP/IP is good to know.
TCP/IP Network Administration [oreilly.com]
DNS and BIND [oreilly.com] very definately, unless you want to be clueless about what happens between typing in "yahoo.com" and it coming up in your browser. Having a good understanding there definately helps you debug problems.
Sendmail [oreilly.com] This is the perfect book to spin your head, and leave you with a headache for months. But it's the topic, not the book, that's so complicated. If it didn't do absolutely everything, I'm sure it would be simpler to use.
O'Reilly has a lot of great books.
"Learning" books are for beginners.
"Nutshell" books are usually to help you figure out something if you don't really know it.
The rest of the books have various degrees of learning to them. On my desk at work, for O'Reilly books, I have 3 different PERL books, the JavaScript book, and a few others that I reference on a regular basis.
I recommend going to book stores, and flipping through everything they have (restock it to the proper places). See what your comprehension level is. If you have no clue what they're talking about, you need an easier book. If you almost understand, buy it, read it, and then share it with a friend (especially on the company expense account! hehe).
When you're ready to get out of the books, and into the real world, the most valuable reference you'll ever have is dejanews.com [dejanews.com]. If you don't know an answer, search it there. Probably someone in the last 20 years has already asked it. It's the quickest way to look smart and impress your friends, even if you're stupid.
Having the stack of O'Reilly books is always good though. I recently changed offices (same company), and while riding in the elevator, I was offered a job because I looked educated and had a big stack of O'Reilly books in my arms.. Little did she know that was only 1/3 of them. The rest were still in my car..
Knoppix (Score:3, Informative)
Try the Redhat 8.0 boxed distro (Score:4, Informative)
Redhat 8.0 retail box set comes with Excellent Documentation, and is quite specific without being overly technical. As an added bonus, it also comes with a CD full of documentation.
Chris, I watch the ScreenSavers on TechTV quite often, and saw the Quake server demo. Qudos to TechTV to give it a try. For a good topic for a show, most folks want to see what Linux can DO! Show them Ximian Evolution and Mozilla, OpenOffice, and TuxRacer. If you have time, do a demo of the Redhat setup agent, and show off Redhat Network (sorta like Windows Update). The new GUI RPM Package Manager and other GUI config tools are nice looking and will display well.
A dual boot setup would be nice to show off also.{I set up a dual boot Win98/RH8 for a newbie laptop user and they have been very happy to boot into Linux, and don't really bother with Windows anymore.}
Anyhow, love the TechTV, please say Happy Holidays to Patrick and Leo and Megan and Morgan and Yoshi and Martin and Sumi and Adam and Jennifer and Michaela and Chris and Erica and Alex and Becky and . .did I forget anyone?
The Linux Cookbook (Score:3, Informative)
"Msys for dumbies"? (Score:3, Informative)
I've not looked at Linux for Dumbies and I have over all been impressed with the dumbies books.
The best by far was a booklet made by SCO for Xenix. This is obveously out of print but it was a mini refence.
Probably the best thing is time in the trenches. For exsisting Mac Os X and Linux users thats call up the shell and experement.
For Windows users however that's not so easy. But it can be done...
Msys [mingw.org] is a Unix environment targeted at Windows software develupment.
Software dev is easyer from the Unix shell what can I say?
It's very Unix but still running under Windows. Just an app. Not a scary install like Linux as it dosen't threaton to destroy everything in favor of the new os...
(Think of an Os install as the Genisis torpedo from Star Trek II.)
Spock "It would destroy such life in favor of it's new matrix"
In otherwords Installing Linux means never being able to go back to Windows (the old matrix).
All your data is gone.. everything...
Your not just trying Linux your commiting to it.
New users need some asurence that Linux is the way to go.
If they can learn Linux from the safe confines of having never installed it so much the better.
Cygwin [cygwin.com] is annother Unix environment again for software develupment.
Add a good Linux or Unix newbie book and the trasnsition should be smoth.
I used Danix [galilei.com] to move from Dos to Unix.
Unlike the rest Danix is a dos port of Unix commands so as to give Dos that "Unix" feal.
The other files in the linked archive are also good for the job.
Also I was going to frivlously suggest using a "hot geek chick" the way beer ads use super modles to sell beer.
"Drink beer and date a super modle"
"Use Linux and date a hot geek chick"
But being realistic people aren't going to switch to Linux in order to date hot chicks. I honnestly could not think of a dumber reason.
Still ammusing to think of Cat teaching Linux... Yummm.
Re:Go to your local college..... (Score:3, Funny)
Eh? What am I using here?
Re:Ronco (Score:3, Funny)
Excitable Announcer: Are you sick and tired of this? [shot of some dude downloading porn then getting the BSOD. "Aw man!"]
Lame-ass closed-source software getting you down? [same dude hunched over with BSOD in background. thought balloon: "THIS SUXX0R5!!!!11"]
Well move over Winblowze, 'cause RONCO LINUX is here!
It slices, it dices, it humps, it dumps, it bakes a cake and takes a leak on the seat while it's in heat. fo shizzles ma nizzle, linux is the tops, ma man be linus (he's got his big penis!). it starts up a riot and it never stop, you want me be quiet? well then call the cops...
ahem
Yes, linux does it all and it's guaranteed to NOT make you gay. It's fun for the whole family, just watch:
[little girl using bash: "Heehee, I'm l337!! w00+!!!"]
[grandma using mozilla to view goatse.cx: "You M$ f4gg0ts can blow me!"]
[dude from earlier successfully downloading porn: "Dude! I feel less gay already!"]
How much would you expect to pay for such an amazing system?
$99.99?!?
$89.99?!?!
$79.99?!??!!
!?!?
Order the Ronco Distro today and pay only three easy instalments of $14.99!
BUT WAIT! That's not all!!
Order now and we'll toss in two CDs of free software at no extra cost!!!!
Operators are standing by! This is a limited-time offer!! ORDER NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111
(ronco enterprises will not be held liable for time wasted setting up linux. ronco enterprises does not endorse rms or any of his views. ronco enterprises has never been affiliated with the communist party. ronco enterprises is a god-fearing corporation. ronco enterprises is required to reveal the following: ronco enterprises is being investigated for fraud in thirteen states; please check with your local authorities.) tt