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Microsoft

Recent MSN Upgrades Causing Modem Problems? 63

Posted by Cliff from the here-there-be-gremlins dept.
swm asks: "My father-in-law runs Windows/XP on a low-end machine. He gets internet access through MSN over a 56K dialup. This worked OK for many months. Two or 3 weeks ago, MSN presented him with an auto-upgrade, and he clicked OK, and the system has been virtually unusable ever since. I booted the machine to see what it does. First, it thinks he is on a LAN (he isn't) and presents a window telling him it can't connect to the internet and he should disable his firewall. I dismiss that window. A few seconds later another window pops up and tries to dial out. I can cancel and close the dial-out window, but it just comes back in about 15 seconds and starts dialing out again. No matter how many times I cancel and close the dial-out window, it just keeps coming back. I reboot the machine and let it dial out. It connects to MSN. I click the 'Offline' button, but it doesn't drop carrier. I shut down the machine and it still doesn't drop carrier. Finally I pull the power cord out of the wall socket and it drops carrier. I've checked msn.com and Googled around a bit, and I can't find any mention of problems like this. Does anyone have any idea what is going on?" Have any MSN users experienced this problem? What have you done in your attempts to solve it?
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Recent MSN Upgrades Causing Modem Problems? More

Recent MSN Upgrades Causing Modem Problems?

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  • Have you called MSN? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Numeric ( 22250 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:49AM (#4906389) Homepage Journal
    If MSN created the problem, maybe they can also address it.

    • Re:Have you called MSN? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Eagle7 ( 111475 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @08:52AM (#4906403) Homepage
      Right on.

      And if they can't/won't, drop thier asses for a worthwhile ISP like Earthlink, Worldnet, etc.
      • drop thier asses for a worthwhile ISP like Earthlink, Worldnet

        It seems you've never had to deal with Worldnet's "customer service." I wouldn't exactly term them a worthwhile ISP.

        On a happier note, Earthlink it indeed excellent.
        • Not to mention Worldnet's less than stellar performance as an actual ISP. Nothing like the secondary phone number for your area being inactive permently or getting dropped every thirty minutes.
          • When I subscribed to AT&T Worldnet, earlier this year, I discovered by reading my logfiles that it was consistently dropping carrier precisely 8 hours and two minutes into a PPP session. Apparently they have a daemon running that kicks you offline after eight hours and it runs about every two minutes.

            I wondered for a long time about the line drops that were happening, then after noticing the logfile realized I just needed a different ISP.
    • i really think it couldnt be anything else, i mean come on, its microsoft. it is either someone who hacked the update system, which was quickly corrected, or maybe intentional...
  • sounds like some rogue dial-on-demand. there is a setting for that somewhere in dial-up networking.

  • Calling home (Score:4, Insightful)

    by silicon_synapse ( 145470 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:21AM (#4906488)
    Most likely the MSN software is trying to call home for some reason. Take a look in your task manager and see what doesn't look right. You did memorize the normal processes and pids didn't you? It's probably something sitting in your startup folder or in one of the run keys in your registry.

    I've got a question though. Why are you even using MSN software? Why not just enter the phone number and create the connection yourself? Windows certainly doesn't need more software to establish a simple dialup connection. Get rid of the software and don't worry about it.
    • I don't think you can use MSN with generic PPP settings. I know that back in the day, you could only subscribe to MSN if you were running Windows 95. I figured they'd let NT 4.0 people join up after NT4 came out with a similar gui and scheme of things- no go. I suspect they're letting a few other platforms on MSN (Windows 9x, XP, maybe even 2K- what a diverse bunch!), but definitely nothing that can't run Microsoft Office without emulation.

  • find a suitable "restore point" in XP (Score:3, Informative)

    by avi33 ( 116048 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:25AM (#4906506) Homepage
    As if they knew their own "upgrades" would cause problems, they were kind enough to include a feature not unlike undo on steroids.

    This page decribes How to Restore Windows XP to a Previous State [microsoft.com].

  • Potential Solution (Score:3, Funny)

    by tedDancin ( 579948 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:28AM (#4906517)
    I think this [infosatellite.com] may shed some light on the problem [infosatellite.com] at hand.

    (:
  • MSN users read /. ???
  • To what I've had happen to a customer before. He had the ambition (admirably, he actually started to learn about his computer himself, being 48 and totally computer illiterate) to install WinXP on his little tug boat box I built for him. Being a dialup user who had failing hopes for broadband, he had the general idea down as far as connecting to the internet.

    Somewhere either He went wrong or a virus he previously contracted decided to get naughty. Did almost the exact same thing. I ended up booting the damn thing up in Safe mode and disabling his modem, dialup prompt, internet related drivers and everything so that I could see what the hell went wrong.

    Strangely, a quick runover with McAffee and ScanDisk did the trick. I checked the logs and didn't see anything corrected. I just re-enabled everything and all was fine.

    I would personally just check your settings, if that doesn't work than go through and reinstall your modem and protocol drivers. Mind you all this should be done in safe mode.

  • WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by balog ( 13684 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:37AM (#4906562)

    Has ask slashdot turned into a fscking software problems/bug report board?

    Ask the fucking support department of MSN for god's sake.

    Please be a little more selective; job ads, hormones, wtf news for nerds? - you're better than this guys...

    • The problem itself might be boring (and really none of us can fix it without access to the machine), but it's a good opportunity to poke fun at Microsoft, so it gets accepted.

    • Has ask slashdot turned into a fscking software problems/bug report board?

      Please be a little more selective; job ads, hormones, wtf news for nerds? - you're better than this guys...

      Yeah, what do you think this is, Fark? [fark.com] Next we'll have stuff like "Photoshop this Star Trek convention to add Lego LotR characters."

    • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Red herring? (Score:5, Informative)

    by kawika ( 87069 ) on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:47AM (#4906608)
    It's also entirely possible that the MSN upgrade has nothing to do with this problem. It sounds like some piece of software is insisting on an Internet connection. This is very common with many viruses and spyware that wants to phone home. Have you checked for viruses and spyware? If your dad installed syware like Gator you could see this behavior, for example.

  • connections (Score:4, Informative)

    by Chris Canfield ( 548473 ) <slashdotNO@SPAMchriscanfield.net> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @09:50AM (#4906622) Homepage
    Section A - on LAN: MSN sounds misconfigured / messed up. Always on / LAN is a viable option for a connection, but you don't have one. I'm not familiar with MSN's proprietary software, but you really don't need it. You can rifle around looking for the setting for LAN / dialup, but I'd just uninstall the useless thing.

    Section B - Dialing in: The software has apparently become configured to auto-connect whenever there isn't a connection. I find that setting to be useful, but I don't have buggy windows software trying to dial home to return the error message saying there is no LAN. If you edit the network setting directly in Windows you should be able to fix this.

    Section C - Not Hanging Up: Yes, modems can be quite sticky. If you really want to make them hang up on eachother, pick up the phone and blow on it, or unplug the phone cord from the wall. Some modems keep power flowing to the line which keep the connection alive. Blowing introduces noise, which convinces the other modem to hang up, while disconnecting the line disconnects the power.

    There is a very important lesson here -- Your ISP is not your software vendor. Use none of their proprietary tools, and never auto-update. Mature, stable, solid tools for creating and maintaining TCP / IP connections exist and are readily available, and integrated email / internet solutions can be built with a little creativity and without programming anything.

    -C
    • Your ISP is not your software vendor. Use none of their proprietary tools, and never auto-update.

      MSN, like AOL, is not just an ISP. They are a content provider, and have many features which go beyond simply establishing a TCP/IP connection to the Internet. While many /.'ers find that amusing, or absurd, the fact is, most ordinary people actually like those additional features. The new MSN's child-safe stuff shows real promise, and the ability to share a browser session with someone else is downright cool.

      I wouldn't want all that stuff, but I've got friends and relatives who do, and none of them are lame-brained idiots.

    • Might I suggest you buy a modem worth a shit? The last modems I used (Hayes Accura 33.6) would maintain a connection if you knocked the phone off hook. Didn't matter what line noise you injected, didn't matter for how long. It stayed connected. The only thing that killed a connection was the stupid 'call waiting' tone. I TOLD the phone company I didn't want that crap.

      As for the original poster: sounds similar to something my brother was going through. No idea if he cleared it up. I told him I wasn't going to trouble-shoot his computer unless he got a real computer (he got a Dell, dude) and a real ISP.

      • Most modems do maintain connections over spans of time when you knock the phone off of the hook. Your goal by introducing significant line noise (in a tone similar to the kind a modem generates) is to convince the ISP's modem to send out the "Too Noisy, hanging up now" tone, which happens after about 5 seconds. Sometimes this can be easier than unplugging the modem, especially if the computer and / or phone is in a hard-to-reach area.
        • Is there a way to construct a little device you could attach into a phone line that would send a hangup tone to both sides of the connection?

          I ask purely in the interest of science, you understand.

  • Setting up a Manual Connection (Score:5, Informative)

    by alatesystems ( 51331 ) <chris AT chrisbenard DOT net> on Tuesday December 17, 2002 @10:19AM (#4906764) Homepage Journal
    When I worked for Best Buy and we sold this crap, I would just uninstall the software from the user's computer and make a manual connection through dial-up networking. Another poster mentioned this, but I'll tell you how to go about it.

    Since MSN shares their access lines with other ISPs you have to specify which you are using by doing the following.

    Use for the username: MSN/username
    and then the password is the same
    And of course, the access # you can get from the software itself or by going to msn.com and looking up access numbers in the search box.

    So once again to recap:
    Phone #(access #)
    username: MSN/username
    password: password

    Chris
    www.talkingtoad.com

    • Also-to-note: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Hubert_Shrump ( 256081 )
      Man, when we took MSN calls we HATED what BB used to do to people. No offence, but don't mention it to an MSN tech. They'll adjust your modem speed and give you a ticket number faster than you can spit.

      If you build a manual connex, MSN isn't going to use it unless you specify you have "another ISP".

      In the bad old days of MSN 6/7, you could repop it with CTRL-shift-F8, but I don't know if that works anymore...

  • Please post your your windows username/password, dialup username/password as well as your email username/password.

    We will fix your problems.
  • MSN presented him with an auto-upgrade, and he clicked OK, and the system has been virtually unusable ever since

    And you expeccted something different from a Microsoft upgrade?

    With all the things you mention, the one thing you never said you tried was calling tech support. Why not try that?

    After all, it's an MSN problem. MSN should fix it. (But then again, they'll probably tell you that you should be running XP on a faster machine and it's time to upgrade.)
  • That pave the way for Linux on the desktop... It may be harder to set up but at least it doesn't go berserk on you.
  • Just use the "System restore" tool from the "System Tools" folder. Go back before the install.

  • XP (Score:1, Troll)

    by josepha48 ( 13953 )
    I guess this is 'xtra protection' from hackers. Think about it, your computer must be safe if you can't get into it ;-)....

    Tell your dad to make the switch and use Mac or Linux or anything other than XP. To all those windows XP fans, all I can say is I'm sorry, but I have heard NOTHING good about XP and this is just another nail in their coffin.

    • This long time Linux user is very fond of XP. It's very stable and packed-full with great features. I won't be running it on my servers anytime soon, but it makes a very nice desktop.

      Ha-ha. Now you won't be able to use that "I have heard NOTHING good about XP" line ever again.
      • They finaly mad it so you can change IPs without rebooting.
      • So is OS X and FreeBSD, and Linux.. they are all stable and packed 'full of features'. This doesn't make XP stand out against the rest.

        You yourself said, "I won't be running it on my servers anytime soon", so why should anyone spend the 2-300 dollars on Xpensive XP????

      • Windows XP? Stable - yes. Packed-full - yes. Great features - yes. Nice desktop - yes. Fast - never. You'll never get XP to be responsive, efficient or boot in under an hour on, say, a P4 2.53 with two gigs of DDR and a GeForce 4. Wait until you can afford a better computer before running this otherwise brilliant "Operating" System.
  • I hate internal modems. You can't kill the power to 'em or get decent diagnostics on 'em easily. I've always purchased external modems, and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
  • Here's how I run XP;

    NEVER install any of the updates. Run a stock install. There are only three 'problem areas' that you need to worry about, and MS's patches never fully address those anyhow!

    Get a cheap firewall (In my case the windows machine is behind my freebsd box so it's not an issue) and block off new inbound connections on all the low ports. If you're paranoid you can configure it to dialog all new connections in both directions, but that gets annoying fairly fast!)

    Remove IE (well, hide it..), and replace it with the most recent Mozilla. Or Opera.

    Remove Outlook and replace it with a more secure mail program. I use Pegasus, but there are others.

    If you're worried about viruses it might be a good idea to install a virus scanner. And running AdAware occasionally is a good idea, if only because things like Gator and Bonzi make your machine unstable and slow. So far it's not been a problem; my kids (6 and 8) mostly just go to nickjr.com (Blues Clues) and bbc.co.uk (Tweenies, Teletubbies..) and don't install games or click on the ads.
  • Although I have not used windows at home for a few years, as I recall there is an option in the network configuration settings or modem settings, somewhere in there, where you can tell windows to automatically dial up a connection whenever one is not present. Perhaps this has been selected, if so, change it to never dial a connection, and you should be good.
    ....or better yet, use this as an excuse to teach your dad linux ;-)

  • Modems cause problems with MSN upgrades.

    OK, sorry. I had to try.

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