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Education

When Tech Schools Go Bad? 111

Posted by Cliff from the when-articles-sound-like-shows-from-FOX dept.
profet asks: "I am currently in the middle of my senior year at Polytechnic University. When I began my journey here I was told by all that it was a good school. Since attending I have gone through much discomfort. The University decided to close down the campus that I attended. Then they decided to change course requirements so that they no longer offered courses that were required for graduation. After talking to others in college it seems that being 'shafted' is common at tech schools. I was wondering how others have faired at their schools." For those who found themselves in this situation, what did you do to resolve your issues?
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When Tech Schools Go Bad? More

When Tech Schools Go Bad?

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  • How's gatech?

    • Re:GeorgiaTech (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bgat ( 123664 )
      I would highly recommend GT. I had my share of complaints, same as everyone else (real shortage of parking for students, for example), but overall it's a really good school and a really great experience.

      Come prepared to learn! Even now, after more than ten years, I'm finding that the education I received there was more thorough and challenging than a lot of other places.

      But the social life sucks. Fortunately, Emory is just down the road, and UGA isn't too far. :^)
      • Have you seen GT Sux [geocities.com]? The experience described there seems pretty... horrifying. Are the complaints there completely valid still?

        • Re:GeorgiaTech (Score:3, Informative)

          by bgat ( 123664 )
          I checked it out, and that site sounds like a bunch of freshman whining. I was hearing those same complaints when I was there (BEE '91), all of which are highly overblown.

          I lived on-campus all three years I was at GT, and rarely had problems with parking because I didn't try to drive to class (it's only like a mile between the two farthest points on campus anyway), and I did most of my commuting (grocery store, errands, etc.) during off-peak hours. I wasn't always able to park 50 ft. from my dorm, but I was always able to find a spot somewhere.

          As for food, I didn't mind it. I ate at Woodruff and the SU regularly, and never had any complaints. They were no Chez Junior's (a local eatery called "Juniors" was), of course, just straight cafeteria fare. When I needed a change, I just hit one of the bazillion off-campus options.

          Housing? Be realistic in your expectations, don't go expecting Club Med. It was darned convenient to live on campus, because I didn't give a shit about who my roommate was--- I was so busy with work and classes, I never saw them anyway. The dorms aren't posh, but they're far better than what GTSux makes them out to be. That includes the year I spent in Techwood, a 1940's-era (?) building that was reclaimed from a nearby housing project and turned into student housing.

          Now, about academics. I'm a graduate of the engineering school, so I have limited experience in the other schools other than hearsay from fellow dorm-dwellers. But my impression is that their experiences were similar to mine. That includes the Architecture school and College of Computing.

          I _never_ felt I was getting shafted, or that the profs were being unreasonable. All the professors uniformly expect you to work hard and to know how to apply the material, not just regurgitate it on a test. If you can do that, then you'll get by just fine. And you _can_ do that, if you put your mind to it. During times I was genuinely trying but struggling, the professors were very supportive.

          If, on the other hand, you intend to spend your time at GT living scenes out of Animal House, you're in for trouble. The whiners behind GTSux probably fit into this category.

          Just my $0.02.
          • One more thing. You can believe the hype about GT being a top-tier school. Even in retrospect, I still believe it is. And it's an incredible bargain, too.

          • Thanks for the response. That site had worried me a bit, though now I'm pretty sure that I'm going to GT.
          • Techwood was student housing before it was turned into public housing. I lived there for a quarter (fall '70). For the classes I had at the time it was very convenient.
        • The experience described there seems pretty... horrifying. Are the complaints there completely valid still?

          like that other guy said, this is definately a freshman whining; a sophomore at the oldest. He has a couple of valid complaints (the STUPID decision to use Scheme in CS1, and the physics department), but the rest of it is crap. If you like your major, you will like tech, basically. if you're going to college cause you have to, or it's just the expected thing to do, then go elsewhere.

          the physics department sucks hardcore, none of the professors can teach (I've heard rumors of one that can, I'll try for him when I retake my only failed class, physics2). their testing sucks, the professors expect you to already know the material, etc. and for some retarded reason CS majors have to take physics 2, which is electricity, magnetism, and light. That would be GREAT if I were a friggin computer engineer....but it's worthless to me. I personally know many CS majors besides myself who failed phys2 the first time around.

          I haven't seen this mentioned, so I'll say it; the submitter mentioned getting shafted, GT's "symbol" or whatever is a tall pointy twisted tower in the center of campus, the Kessler Campanile, aka The Shaft....so getting shafted is something we complain about a lot here.

          oh, by the way, we have a great Co-Op program. they hype it up a lot, but most or all of it is true. you're still a full-time student while working, and the only thing you have to pay for is housing, unless of course you don't like on campus. they make it easy with companies coming here to interview and whatnot. anyway, highly recommended from me.
          • He created the site last year and complained about the freshman housing so he's definitely a sophomore now. He had a good reason to complain about that considering he was in a dorm that was closed for Spring to be renovated. I don't know which was worse for them, having to live there in Fall or being forced to move out.

            His complaints are still valid; nothing on his site was fabricated, though obviously some things are made to sound worse than they really are. I didn't enjoy Scheme when I took the class, but I was a teaching assistant for it last semester, and it actually made sense.

            Seriously though, GaTech is worth it. It has a great reputation and really isn't that hard if you put forth some effort and show up to class every once in awhile.
            • considering he was in a dorm that was closed for Spring to be renovated. I don't know which was worse for them, having to live there in Fall or being forced to move out.

              well I went through that, they closed 6th street last summer, and my roommate and I had to move out. we're talking 10 computers, quite a few monitors in varying sizes, a bookshelf full of books, big TV, etc. and they didn't do jack to 6th street during their "renovation." yeah, that's highly annoying, especially when you've amassed the massive amounts of stuff from living in the apartment dorms (oh, and having 4 hours from the time you get your new keys until the time you have to be out of your old place).
      • As a UGA grad, I just have to say...Thanks! ;)

        (Actually, I was in grad school at UGA, so I don't really count anyway.)

        --RJ
    • It wasn't for me, but that wasn't their fault. It's nowhere near as bad as the horror stories people have been telling about other schools. Then again, if you're looking to party, it's no UGA or FSU either.

      Of course, you probably wouldn't be on /. or considering GT if you were really looking to party :P.
    • I went to graduate school at GaTech; for me, it was great. Undergraduates seem to have a hard time at GaTech; they just don't get any respect. For example, when I needed to get into the CS labs after hours, I checked out a key for a $5 deposit --no questions asked. The undergrads had to block the door open so they could get in or out after hours. A certain block of the (very limited) parking is reserved for graduate students to sign up at their leisure; undergrads have to sign up as early as possible for parking areas that are always over sold. A friend from high school went to Tech as an undergraduate. When he got there, he went to a huge class in an auditorium where he was told, "Look to your left; look to your right. Only one of you will graduate." He was also a member of a large, informal campus club: The D Minus (D-) Club. During one short-lived experimental term, no core physics classes were offered in class with an instructor: all of the classes were online by recorded video. A few students complained, as I'm sure you can imagine. My humble advice: take as many core undergraduate classes as you can outside of GaTech, then finish up at Tech. The core classes outside of Tech will be cheaper, smaller, easier, and you'll graduate with a higher overall GPA.

  • Wow, and I thought _I_ had it bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by n1ywb ( 555767 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @03:04AM (#4971163) Homepage Journal
    I go to Vermont Technical College.

    They stopped serving alcohol in the lounge.
    They took away the student's garage.
    My degree will HOPEFULLY be accredited by the time I graduate.
    The school is grossly underfunded and run by chowderheads.

    Thank god I go to VTC and not YOUR school!! For once the grass ISN'T greener. Compared to what I've heard about other schools, my academic experience at VTC has been pretty l33t So what if my social experience has been a steaming turd.
  • Then they decided to change course requirements so that they no longer offered courses that were required for graduation.

    What will happen to you? Forever paying school fee with no hope of graduation? Why paying for endless torment without purpose? Are you posting from Hell?

    I think you should really turn to Customer Right or Human Right for help.

    • Re:that's not quite clear (Score:4, Informative)

      by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @08:00AM (#4971731) Journal
      As a graduate of that very same university, (actually, I got my BS, as in bullshit, degree from the Farmingdale campus right before it closed. A week later they had the windows boarded up), I can vouch for the validity of this article.

      There were only 6 people in my class for junior and senior year (Mechanicl Engineering). Four of them were taking the aerospace electives, which means the university couldn't justify opening up a whole class for just two students. Fortunately we got through taking senior-level courses from other majors as electives.

      In terms of education, though, it really is a pretty good school. Good professors (mostly) and reasonable resources. Administration wise the school is an absolute nightmare. Unfortunately, I'm hearing that most colleges are like that. (I once got a bill for $0 and my account suspended because I didn't pay the balance. It took me three trips to the registrar to fix that one!)

      My advice? Hold your breath, close your eyes, and get it over with. You've made it this far, and you'ld be stupid to quit now. And don't forget to bitch to the administration. A lot. The squeeky wheel get the grease.

      And hey profet, kick Emperor Chan in the nuts for me if you see him :)
      =Smidge=
      • Haha, you thought the registrar in farmingdale is bad...

        Believe you me, in brooklyn, it's 10 times worse. We get online registration, but not really - you have to go see the woman in person to get a hold removed from your account so you can register online (!?!?).

        Check out http://www.polytalk.com for an inside view of what's goin on at brooklyn nowadays.

        -Tomaj
        • Tomaj I got lucky. The day I was scheduled to meet with my "advisor" she had to leave early, so she sent me an email saying the holds off and you can register. I lucked out - For This semester
      • I once got a bill for $0 and my account suspended because I didn't pay the balance. It took me three trips to the registrar to fix that one!

        Why didn;t you try the old solution from the old urban legend; Write a check for $0.00.
      • How about this one? They schedule my CS2214 Class(Computer Architecture) during two time frames, the main humanities block(when most History/Social Science classes are given), and during the math block(only time math above calculus 2 is offered). Meanwhile I'm not registered for the class because I'm on a waiting list 30 people long. I'm not falling behind in my classes for my major because they cant schedule anything correctly! Not to mention I didnt know my schedule for finals this semester until LESS THAN A WEEK BEFORE I WAS TAKING THEM.

      • At the University of Victoria, way up here in Canada, there was a well-published case of 2 students (I believe from the Architecture dept) who sued the university for their entire tuition because the uni req'd a particular senior course to graduate that they hadn't offered for 2 years.

        These poor students couldn't get their degree, the uni wouldn't let them take a substitute course, and wouldn't open even a single section due to "lack of demand and funding". After 6 semesters of waiting for the uni to open a section, they called a lawyer.

        I'm not positive about how it turned out, but I think they settled out of court.

  • You'd expect something horrific. . . (Score:3, Funny)

    by Farley Mullet ( 604326 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @03:24AM (#4971227)

    . . .when you go to school in Amityville [imdb.com]. Like the poster [imdb.com] says: "For God's Sake, Get Out!".

  • that's it? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    at my (former) school, a major university located in arizona, they changed all the upper division classes over the course of a summer from one primary language (C) to another (Java).

    the semester before they made the change, they began offering a single Java class. the semester after, most everything was Java based. many of my classmates and i had to start from scratch for 2 semesters or so to get caught up. i got fed up of having to pay tuition for the same courses in a new language, so quit altogether.

    the uni has a few satellite campuses, and one in particular has a lot of the profs i liked pre-language switch, teaching pretty much the same courses they did before. i will probably start back at the satellite campus next fall.

    i would have gone to the u of a instead, but i was already pretty well settled down in the phoenix area, so went with the other big uni in az.
    • You mean after learning C, you couldn't pick up Java really quick? I'd be fed up as well. They didn't even teach you the basics you need to be a good programmer in the first few years.
      • Or having to go backwards after learning how to program in an OOP. And then in the having all the advanced classes taught in c... Not that is so bad, but it was defiantly not fun to learn a new language, while you are trying to program advanced algorithms... when you don't access to a compiler for that language... Ah school days... you'll miss it when you graduate and can't find a job...

  • Tough times lead to tough measures... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by WIAKywbfatw ( 307557 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @03:39AM (#4971251) Journal
    The downturn in the world economy can only have a negative effect on the numbers of American students going to university - when times are bad, people who don't have the benefit of a college fund built up by their parents since birth are less likely to find putting themselves into heavy debt for the foreseable future an attractive proposition for a qualification that won't necessarily get them a well-paid job. And, when there are thousands of people out there who already have those qualifications and years of real-world experience competing for almost every opening, the odds of a new graduate finding his/her dream job - or even a relevant job in their field - can become an impossible task.

    (Conversely, in Europe, Australia and elsewhere, where the cost of education to the individual is either paid for or subsidised by the state, a poor job market can be a greater incentive to go to university.)

    Fewer students means more choice for students, as colleges are forced to fight harder to get the numbers they need to fill their programmes. Inevitably, this means that the most prestigous universities, such as the Ivy league, MIT, Caltech, will continue to prosper, whilst those lower down the ladder suffer. At the bottom end, it becomes a dog eat dog scenario, and universities that fail to meet their projected student numbers can find themselves vulnerable.

    (Of course, the fact that research funding will follow a similar pattern during tough times doesn't help either.)

    My guess is your college is one of the vulnerable ones. It's cutting cost where it can (closing down an entire campus surely suggests a fall in student numbers) and making its courses more attractive to students (dropping the need for everyone to take required courses in order to graduate).

    Of course, as you're almost finished there, there's little you can do except to bite the bullet and finish your degree. But, if you're going to supplement your education with a masters or a doctorate then you might be better off looking to read those elsewhere - if the college's student numbers and graduate quality falls in the coming years studying elsewhere higher up the food chain should help you from being pigeon-holed as someone who only has "a worthless degree from a third-rate college".

    Sure, it's a harsh assessment but, believe me, it's a harsh world out there. Compared to the real world, college is paradise.

    Good luck for the future.
  • I guess RIT [rit.edu] isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was in comparison to other tech schools. I just received my Bachelors from RIT, so I shouldn't bitch too much.

  • This complaint sounds odd (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pauljlucas ( 529435 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:09AM (#4971315) Homepage Journal
    The University decided to close down the campus that I attended.
    I graduated Poly in '89. There was talk then of the Farmingdale campus being closed at some point, so I'm surprised that (apparently) you didn't know about the possibility. (If you did know about the possibility, but signed up anyway, then you have no cause to complain.)
    Then they decided to change course requirements so that they no longer offered courses that were required for graduation.
    Are you sure about that? When I was there, the degree requirements changed on me too. However, we were given the option of continuing on the old requirements (for which courses were offered), or switching to the new requirements. I find it difficult too believe that they would not let you continue on the old requirements just as was done with my class.
    • When I started.. Poly was on the 3x5 program (5 classes a semester 3 credits each).

      They have since changed to a 4x4 program.

      Now according to the program that i started on...Students take 1 humanities course, and 1 social studies course along with computer science electives and senior projects and such, the second half of their senior year.

      I am about to start the second half of my senior year and guess what...there are no more 3 credit humanites or 3 credit social studies...so in order to graduate I would need to take and extra 2 crdits (which I must pay for).

      • ... in order to graduate I would need to take and extra 2 crdits (which I must pay for)
        When I was doing my graduate degree (at UIUC), I wound up (through dumb luck, not because the school changed any requirements) needing just 2 credits to graduate. I asked my advisor if he'd give me the credits for an "Independent Study" course for writing a good research paper: he did. (However, I don't remember whether I had to pay for the credits or, because there was no actual course involved, it was no-cost.)
      • What I think is funny is that for CS majors, senior year on the new 4x4 plan involves really no 4 credit classes, and instead its like a year on the old system. Poly converting over to the 4x4 has been a MAJOR headache for everyone I know(myself included), along with people that need more than 4 years to graduate. If the 4x4 system is so great, why do people on it need to take 3 credit classes?

    • I didn't hear about the closure until the first half of my senior year. And how did I hear about it? I overheard someone at another table mention it in the cafeteria! Three weeks later there was an assembly in the auditorium for a little Q&A with Chan.

      Most of the people there were surprized.

      Yeah, great to know they made every effort to keep the student population informed.

      I happened to pass the campus a few weeks ago. Some guy was selling huge plaster lawn ornaments in front of it. :)

      I also wonder about the thousands of dollars worth of equipment they *just* finished installing, and nobody even had time to use. You'ld think that if they were looking to save money they wouldn't have installed network drops at every desk and data projectors in every room... (Most of which was desroyed/stolen because everyone knew the campus was closing in a few months anyway!)
      =Smidge=
    • The thing is if you fall behind at ALL you are screwed. If math back then was the same as it is now you should understand. Except for Humanities electives which I don't think they offer enough of.

      --IslesFan
    • Verified.

      I was in for at least a year before I was told, and it wasn't but a few weeks before the meeting that Smidge mentioned. In which our esteemed president began to yell at noone for talking during his speech. Anyone else who was there knows what I was talking about: "If you don't be quiet, I'll leave!" It was so funny, except it didn't give me confidence in the school. "Oh great, the president of the school is a crazy man.." Soon after that, I started missing classes because I was out of state.

      As for the male/female population, I was often the only girl in my class, sometimes, there were two girls. *gasp*

      Scandal (one of the few girls from that place)
    • >However, we were given the option of continuing on the old requirements
      >(for which courses were offered), or switching to the new requirements.

      That happened at my school (University of Colorado) as well; the curriculum was changed to focus more on electrical engineering, but the students already in the program had the choice of whether to stay with the old program, which I did, or switch to the newer one. Given that classes taken under the old program might not apply to the new one, I wouldn't think any reputable college would make you switch without plenty of warning..
    • At some point, maybe between my sophomore and junior years, my university switched from quarters to semesters. Many pairs of classes were combined into a single new class... and needless to say the university required you to retake the new semester-long class if you only had one of the prereqs.

      Toss in the normal shuffling over 4 years, etc., and I think everyone in know had to hustle to complete graduation requirements. I know I ended up filling the paperwork for an associates degree for under one of the early catalogues, then using that degree as a "pre-existing AS degree" to waive all of the lower-division requirements for my BS. Toss in the fact that I could never decide between a math or physics degree and I ended up with three diplomas (one AS, two BS) in less than a year.

  • the worst part (Score:5, Funny)

    by RootPimp ( 230121 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:34AM (#4971368)
    He forgot to mention that the guy to girl ratio is like 1000:1

    • He forgot to mention that the guy to girl ratio is like 1000:1

      I went to RPI [rpi.edu] (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, just North of Albany, NY). Around there, the ladies had a saying: "The odds are good, but the goods are odd."

      Of course, there was always the Tatnall law of Women and Parking Spaces: "The good ones are all taken. The rest are either too far out or you don't want anyway."

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Ah Poly (Score:4, Interesting)

    by CableModemSniper ( 556285 ) <.moc.liamg. .ta. .odlapacnagol.> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @04:47AM (#4971388) Homepage Journal

    I'm a freshman here. I don't have quite as many entertaining stories, yet. Um I got one tho.

    You have to take this course, CS1114 which is a basic intro to CompSci. If you take the AP Computer Science exam (and get a 4 or you might need a 5, i am not sure, I got a 5 (the highest)) you get credit for it and go move on to CS1124 w/o taking 1114. Here's the kicker: They'll give you credit for AP Computer Science A, but not AB. Guess which one I took? Yeah, AB the more "advanced" course. So I had to take 1114, and it was immensely boring. I know when kid who got them to place him into 24 anyway, but he doesn't have credit for 14.

    Oh and as someone else already mentioned, the female population is practically non-existant.

    Looks to be a "fun" four years.

    • Blame the head of the CIS dept. When i went there, the courses you are thinking of are were called 200 and 201 (i think). I got a 4 on the harder test. Seeing that my grades were so good, the prior head looked at my grades in CIS and the score. He gave me the opportunity to take the equvilancy test (the final) for 201 and gave me credit for both.

      You should have persued your case taht AB was harder.. 'cause it was a hella lot harder :)
    • As far as the guy to girl ratio, it's not THAT bad in brooklyn -- for a couple reasons.

      1) They're lowering the standards for admission to.. i think.. umm.. oh yeah, non-existant.

      and

      2) In othmer, they have girls from other school as well.

      Don't worry, you'll get more stories -- Like me for example - I had to once pay nearly $1000 for 'damages' caused to the dorm because the head-bitch at farmingdale was a giant cunt and decided that i should pay, even though it was 100% clear that I did not cause the damage (dorm furniture & holes in the common area walls) and others even said so.

      Just keep in mind -- at poly, the constitution does not exist!

      -Tomaj

    • Re:Ah Poly (Score:2, Insightful)

      by IslesFan ( 101067 )
      CS1114 At Poly is a Joke. Thank God I took it in the now closed Long Island campus(I got a A if anyone asks). If you know the AP CS AB material, theres maybe 3 weeks of stuff from CS1124 that you dont know, some of the shit you'll learn in upper classes neceessary or dont need. Lets not even get started with the math at poly...
      • *laughs*

        *laughs harder*

        Yeah, lets go there, why not?

        See, in their infinite wisdom, it was decided that both campuses, brooklyn and li would have the same math final.... There was one small catch, in this particular case, we (my class) got a new math teacher. He didn't know anything as far as we could tell. He spent almost an entire session trying to figure out how to connect two dots on a graph... With a ruler even... This because he wanted to solve a problem graphically. You could do it just by looking...

        (I can still remember shouting in student services next door what the answer to the problem was. I think the answer was 2. I wonder if the people who didn't leave the classroom heard me shouting about how they needed to fire this guy. I hope he did.)

        Now imagine an entire classroom's frustration as the teacher does this repeatedly when they have to cover about 4 chapters in a week.

        This is why, after a small while, students began to cut the class in order to study for the final. As far as I can tell, it proved effective. Many who stayed, failed.

        Scandal
        • Which math was this?
          • MA106.

            Why, is this all coming back to you? Were you in that class too?

            Scandal
            • Being a sophomore now, I've heard the various math horror stories from long island(MA107 in particicular). I'm guess I'm lucky I got out of 106 and 107's 4x4 equivalents in 2 consecutive semesters. I still need to take that damn 107 gateway, which is f-ing bs, but I'll get to that eventually.
    • So I had to take 1114, and it was immensely boring.

      If there is anything more boring than an intro CS class I never want to experience it. I'd rather eat a urinal cake than take those courses again.

      Oh and as someone else already mentioned, the female population is practically non-existant.

      Expect this to continue after you finish school. If you work engineering in the US the only women you will work with will be in HR.

  • I don't know what you are talking about... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by inepom01 ( 525367 ) <inepom01.hotmail@com> on Saturday December 28, 2002 @05:11AM (#4971436)
    I am also a senior at Poly and when I started, I knew exactly what it was like. I just came because they are paying most of my tuition... All you had to do was look online at USNews & World Report or a number of other sites/sources for college information. I'd say most schools are consistent in reputation/education and Poly has shown consistency as well - through the actions you speak of, as well as many others.

    If you got into MIT and went to Poly, you shouldn't've gotten into MIT. If you went to Poly because you didn't get in anywhere else, why complain? You know you couldn't do better. Unless it was the money, in which case, feel better. Other people have college loans, you probably don't.

    • Profet is my roommate, so i'll have to defend him on this one.

      Basically, you go to the open house and they blow so much smoke up your ass you feel like a hot air baloon.

      I personally got the 'presidential' scholarship. Out of highschool, i had no idea what to expect from a college. I didn't realize i'd be ruining my life by going to a shit-hole with no social activity.

      They commit fraud by ommission, don't tell you any of the bullshit that happens on a daily basis.

      For me, the money helped -- I also got into RPI, WPI, NJIT, several SUNY's, etc etc.. I even got money from most - but not nearly as much as from poly, so they won.

      And i lost.

      -Tomaj
    • A lot of my college picking was partially decided by my father.

      This one covered most of the tuition with scholarship. I got into RIT, RPI, and a few others.

      I know at least one person who got into MIT but went here. He knows his stuff too. I think he fled to MIT when all this went down however.

      Money, and a good show, was how they suckered me in. When I tried to transfer, and explain to people the true face of this college, my family wouldn't listen to me, and those who could offer me financial support didn't.

      Polytech has also come up with a phantom $5000 I "owe" them. I'm not the only person that happened to, but I am one of the few who couldn't get their parents to browbeat the school into admitting it was a "clerical error". So, I'm one of the few who still "owe" them this phantom cash.

      Guess what that means when I try to tranfer?

      Nevermind the fact that my mother recieved a phone call, from someone who claimed to be a teacher of mine, and convinced my mom to give her my new contact info. A few days later, like 1 or 2 days later, I get a phone call. It's from a collections agency, about money I supposedly owe Polytech. Hmm.. that doesn't sound quite legal...

      This is my Poly Shaft.

      As Tomaj said (btw, whassup?) they won, and I lost.

      Maybe, just maybe, this article might get the right people looking around.

      Quite frankly, I'd like to get on with my education.

      I am not above calling a lawyer at this point.

      Scandal

  • It's typical poly (Score:4, Informative)

    by sporty ( 27564 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @10:25AM (#4971940) Homepage
    Poly is unfortunately,a terrible school in terms of student relations. I went there starting in '95 and transfered out asap. Sorry to have to say this, but their proiorities aren't churning out good graduates, but sucking them in.

    From that stupid 3 person staffed registrar area, to the badly admined sun servers (is utopia.poly.edu still around?), bad computer labs, terrible classrooms.

    Maybe it was a great school 20 years ago, but a lot has to be fixed before they start building new things like the gym, the dorms (which are only like a third full and such.
    • Heh, yeah utopia is still around.

      Sucks complete monkey-cock.

      We had a CS project due that was to be written in 1 of three languages, including java... So after finishing the prog in J2SE 1.4.whatever, we loaded it onto utopia, and it was a no-go.. Turns out they only had java 1.1 installed....

      -Tomaj

  • Have a fall-back job in case CS doesn't work out:) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xintegerx ( 557455 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @10:30AM (#4971948) Homepage
    No, seriously. :)

    My cousin graduated from ### in 2002 for Computer Science. Well, he installs Cat 5 now for a living. (I believe he had a high GPA, too.)

    If even he can't get a job, how am I supposed to when I attend a community college for the same field? People aren't getting jobs in Computer Science recently; instead, they are losing jobs. And, it seems that people who are hired (or stay) have to work crazy hours! And the third kicker is that even if he *is* hired, then even he won't be paid more than $30,000 (versus hundreds of thousands in the dot com boom) to start, most likely than not. All this, while doing more work than a programmer previously probably ever had to.

    With programming losing its dignity, and the 1% female rate in classes, I'm going NUTS. The hardest part about switching majors is that the other major I've been considering for the past two days is not offered at my school.

    I am thinking I could use my love for programming in personal projects while working many weird jobs in the mean time.

    That's why I believe the best plan for me will be to resign from ############## and attend the other college.

    I guess CS was worth it back when pay and hiring was at a high, but exploring other interests now that the light has shown itself seems like the best idea for me. It used to be that the Visual Arts major I'm thinking about was the interest and CS was a sure thing to fall back on, while now it could sadly be true to think the opposite!!

    Let me be the first to say this: CS majors should be ready to fall back on some similar venture or another venture that they would enjoy doing, in case CS doesn't work out! ;x

    • Re:Have a fall-back job in case CS doesn't work ou (Score:5, Insightful)

      by humblecoder ( 472099 ) on Saturday December 28, 2002 @11:30AM (#4972099) Homepage
      Hey buddy. I feel your pain. I REALLY do! However, let me provide a little bit of perspective for you. I graduated college way back in 1993. If you don't remember 1993 very well, that was the year we were coming out of the Bush Senior recession of the early nineties. The situation wasn't that much different then than it is now.

      Like you, I was graduating with a tech degree which I thought would be my ticket to riches and glory. Unfortunately, not a lot of companies were hiring entry level people, and the ones that were offered salaries that were in the $20K-$30K range. Hardly what you'd call a booming job market.

      Here's the thing though. I love CS and I love technology. Even though I had a fallback (I took a couple of the actuarial certification exams in college), I knew that I would enjoy working in the software field more than any other (legal) occupation. I kept pounding the pavement and through a combination of hard work and luck, I was able to land a job doing software development for $30K. Sure it sounds low by dot-com standards, but the dot-com salaries are the exception, not the rule.

      Fast forward to the late when everybody and their mother was looking for software developers.... I was in a great position to take advantage of the boom. I had several years experience, a proven track record, and a passion for what I was doing.

      In summary, all I can say is this: if the reason you went into CS was to get a six-figure salary as a "web developer" without any effort, then you shouldn't have majored in CS in the first place. If you do enjoy CS, then do some work and look for a job, take that "low" $30K job like the rest of us had to, and when the next boom hits (and there WILL be another boom), you'll be sitting pretty.
      • I also graduated around 1993. I had a full time job doing a little programming in Texas, but I knew I wanted to move back to Colorado - so I just moved back into my parents house and started looking for work. After a hundred or so resumes and two months later, I had found a job... on a QA team. From there I was happily able to convince them of my programming avbilites and move to development before too long.

        My starting salary? About $22k. That was a year after school with some real experience elsewhere.

        That said, I still think times are a little tougher now for CS grads. Because of all the hiring freezes and out of work computer people, I'm not sure how entry level people find jobs at all right now. It doesn't seem like there was so much a similar flood of youngish developers floating around in 1993 to scarf up jobs like there is now.

        Even so, I pretty much agree that the best path for a student now is to stick with CS, then get a job in a company doing anything close to programming - like QA or support. From there once there is a shortage again (which there will be) you can be in good shape to move your programming career forward. Don't give up on CS as a degree as it will serve you well if that is what you want to do as a living, and will help you to move more quickly out of a QA/support position.
    • I am just curious.
      How much do CS programmers get paid now?
      how much did they really get paid back in the 90's?
      • Like anything, it depends on where you live and how good you are.
        I recently was laid off (due to buy out)from an ISP in Nebraska. I started at $7.50 an hr as a hell desk jockey. When I left I was the lead tech/sys admin, and was making more on salary than the owner was. About 36k year.

        I just started at a new ISP (same town). $7.50 an hour. Part-time. In 2 years I'll probably be right back where I was, maybe a little sooner.

        36k though, in Lincoln, is *good* money. In Omaha, it's chump change. Omaha is only 60 miles away.

    • Re:Have a fall-back job in case CS doesn't work ou (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My cousin graduated from ### in 2002 for Computer Science. Well, he installs Cat 5 now for a living.

      Well, that's what he gets for going to ####. I know a guy that went to $$$$$ and he's making a bundle.

      That's why I believe the best plan for me will be to resign from ############## and attend the other college.

      Where do you go to school? Richard Nixon University? I mean, ############# is the ######### with all ### ###########?

  • Polytechnic (Score:2, Flamebait)

    by sql*kitten ( 1359 )
    I am currently in the middle of my senior year at Polytechnic University.

    The name should have given it away immediately. In Britain at least, the term "polytechnic" is synonymous with poor-quality education - so much so that a few years ago they all renamed themselves to try to blend in with the real universities and colleges. Still, everyone knows which are the ex-polys and the stigma remains. If you want a good education, go to a place with a bit of history, 100 years or more, because you can trust that it knows how to maintain its quality.
    • I think polytechnic was founded in 1895 or something.. It's got history. Unfortunately, it's got a dumbass for a president, hence the current dilemna.

      -Tomaj

    • If you want a good education, go to a place with a bit of history, 100 years or more, because you can trust that it knows how to maintain its quality.

      Poly is in fact over 100 years old [poly.edu]. AIUI, it's not a bad place to go for graduate study. They recently built a big new facility in Brooklyn [metrotechbid.org] together with a bunch of New York companies. They make most of their money from research; a lot of Star Wars work was done there. It's just the undergraduate study that leaves something to be desired.
    • Assuming that the posting wasn't intended as flamebait, in the U. S. the term "polytechnic" is NOT "synonymous with poor-quality education." It is mostly just an indication that the school DOES have a long history.

      For example, WPI (Worcester Polytechnic Institute) [wpi.edu] and RPI (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute) [rpi.edu] are both fine schools.
      • Assuming that the posting wasn't intended as flamebait, in the U. S. the term "polytechnic" is NOT "synonymous with poor-quality education." It is mostly just an indication that the school DOES have a long history.

        It must be one of those words that has a slightly different meaning in British and American English. In Britain, a poly (or these days ex-poly) is where you would go if you couldn't get into a real university. They're known for churning out "media studies" and other such made-up subject graduates by the bucketload.

  • I like these (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by DeadSea ( 69598 )
    The Open Directory Project [dmoz.org] - A list of all the websites on the internet categorized with descriptions. Editors are responsible for finding websites, weeding and sorting submissions, and writing descriptions for each site. The project was started by Netscape and AOL now pays for two full time employees. Almost all of the actual work is done by volunteers. The content is made available via RDF dump and is licensed under an Open Content License [dmoz.org].

    There was recently a slashdot article about Distributed Proofreaders [archive.org] in support of Project Gutenburg. Volunteers proofread one page at a time from public domain books which have been scanned and OCRed.

    The nice thing about these two is that you can spend as much or as little time as you would like. Have an hour a month? Thats fine. Want to spend 16 hours a day? You can. If you want to do less later or you just want to try it out, that is no problem.

  • I had similar problems at ITT Tech. When I started, I was told that we would have three courses (I took Electronics Engineering at the Nashville, TN campus). Theory, required course (math, sociology, etc.) for credits, and Lab. And it was that way for the first quarter or two. And during those first two quarters, I was passing all my classes easy as pie. Then they switched. Lab, required course, and Theory. BIG problem for two reasons.

    1) Lab was two (or more) chapters AHEAD of Theory
    2) Lab was before theory

    At the end of the first year I basically flunked out because of this, even though the first half of the year I was passing with a 3.4 GPA. I wasn't the only one whose grades suffered, either.

    As for resolving it, I didn't. I just don't have anything to do with them anymore.
  • I attended Hofstra University [hofstra.edu] on Long Island, NY as an undergraduate (Computer Science and Math). I was told all about how their program was one of the "top in the country", which, though I did not fully believe, trusted was at least "up there". By my second year, the school dropped down a tier (I think tier 2 --> 3 or 3 --> 4). The CS department was full of part time adjunt faculty that were terrible teachers. The equipment would have been new in 1975, and there were no real resources.

    I decided to go onto graduate school at Cornell (Comp Sci), and the differences were absolutely amazing. I learned more in the year at Cornell than I did in the 3 1/2 at Hofstra.

    I would recommend to anyone who can get into a top CS school to go there-- scholarships, etc to lesser (crap) schools do not help you at all. If I could go back, I wouldn't have gone to Hofstra, it was a waste of 3 1/2 years, and I'm far behind where I would have been if I had gone straight to a better school.

  • Class of '91 here, also attended the now-closed Farmingdale campus. Professors (well, not all of 'em) who hate having students, WWII-era lab equipment, "library" the size of my living room, dorms made from Civil Defense shelter plans. Then again, parking was always plentiful, and climbing the Poly Ball (the vacuum chamber for the defunct hypersonic wind tunnel) was always fun. I was in the CS program - one of IIRC less than a dozen students in my year in the program. (The school is, or was, very heavily focused on EE.) Tuition started at $9500 a year when I started in '87, and was $14K by '91, and has climbed steadily from there.

    I'll say this, though - love it or hate it, I don't know anyone who managed to graduate (of course, many people don't) who doesn't have a good job now. IMO Poly is kind of a "crucible" that culls the chaff pretty quickly.

  • What I did when I discovered my CS dept sucked... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by swillden ( 191260 ) <shawn-ds@willden.org> on Sunday December 29, 2002 @12:47AM (#4974830) Journal

    ... was to branch out and add some meat to my degree by taking other classes. In my particular case, I graduated with a dual major in Pure Mathematics and CS, with a minor in English Lit. I took more coursework than I would have otherwise, but I think my degree is more impressive to potential employers than it would be otherwise. I'm a programmer, but the English minor demonstrates that I have some skill with words as well, which is valuable. Of course, in our innumerate society, the math degree convinces a large number of people that I must be some kinda genius math whiz. Silly, but their lack of understanding works to my benefit.

    For me, however, it's been equally important that I can speak to people. Those skills are really, really important. I'm not naturally gregarious, and I don't have a silver tongue, but I spent two years as a Mormon missionary in Mexico doing nothing but talking to people all day, every day -- all kinds of people, from every walk of life. The result of that investment (made for completely unrelated reasons) was that I largely overcame my bookish nature. I also became fluent in a foreign language, which hasn't ever been a clear differentiator that I can see, but has to have been an advantage.

    In addition, I also spent 8 years in the US Air Force Reserves being, of all things, a cop/security guard. That experience has proven surprisingly valuable and, when combined with the interest in cryptology I developed while completing my math degree, has made it very easy for me to move into the particular sub-field of computer security that I currently inhabit. The leadership opportunities I had as an Air Force NCO taught me a great deal about working with people in a superior/subordinate role (though I think I'm still not great at it). Even my year working part-time as a convenience store clerk has proven to be very valuable in my software career.

    In summary: Most geeks in training are pretty bright people, who are capable of doing a lot of things. Broaden your background, add some "softer" stuff, do something that requires extensive human interaction (and not just with other geeks!) and you'll have more to offer a potential employer. For example, my current boss values my programming skills and my expertise in cryptology and secure system design, but he also appreciates (even more, actually), the fact that he can send me in to deliver a technical marketing pitch to senior execs of a multi-national corp, or to talk to a group of line workers in a factory to understand their jobs and how IT systems could facilitate them, or to lead a team of software developers, testers, technical writers and subject-matter experts in defining, building and deploying a solution.

    My company (IBM) just went through a couple of rounds of major layoffs but I wasn't ever really concerned. Why? Because I'm *flexible*, and that makes me more valuable than many geeks. That's not to say that I couldn't end up on the street also, but (a) my expertise is sufficiently broad-ranging that I can fit into a lot of technical niches and (b) there are a few other things that I can do, even though they'd pay quite a bit less.

    Anyway, breadth of experience, and not just technical experience, has worked very well for me, and I see plenty of reason why it would work equally well for others.

    • I don't have the great base of experience you have had, but I share with you the same trait of not being naturally gregarious.

      I also make an effort to speak to lots of people, and have always made an effort to spend some of my schooling improving communications skills. That has served me very well at every place I've worked at.

      If you are adept at technology you can always pick up new skills quickly, but being able to communicate well provides the best base to grow from in any company (or in your own).

  • rumsfield says... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by RootPimp ( 230121 )
    just transfer, thats what I did. I just had enough of professors looking to fail you, pipes that leaked shit(and I do mean shit), and the "we're getting screwed" attitude of everyone from the students to the administration. I go to SUNY Stony Brook now, and they have actual resources(my workstation of choice in the computer lab is a SunBlade 1000) and tuition is only $4k a year. Its no less respected by industry and all that stuff about having a 2.0GPA from poly is better then a 3.5 from most schools is bullshit. A 3.5 is a 3.5. And no it isn't perfect but the administration is able to run a campus of 17,000 undergrads, massive research programs, and an actual campus bigger then my backyard, a hell of a lot better then Poly runs their university.

  • I graudated from RPI, thankfully the education and the friends I have made were great. The honorable Shirley Ann Jackson, the President of the school, has no care for the students. They have changed policies without any input from the students as well ass-raping each one of us for more money. The school is located in the biggest dump of a town I have ever seen and the schools idea of campus life is just ignorant.

    I have noticed at colleges across the country students consume alcohol, listen to loud music, and try to be entertained when they aren't being stressed trying to become engineers and what not. For a school to try and stop all of that as well as changing schedules to keep people at a miserable campus make no sense. To not allow seniors who went on co-op for a semester to not walk with their class during graduation is irresponsible. To tell me that I don't even need a computer if I come to RPI and then the next year make a mandatory laptop policy baffles my mind.

    Did I mention classes? TAs that don't speak english, required classes in my major that are locked out every semester. No actual real professors for my CS classes (just grad or visiting profs.) No "real" CS building (in a tech school, largest major outside of general engineering). Oh yeah.. and about selling out, RPI is the biggest money grubbing girl lacking sell out school there ever was.

    But I am writing this from my job that my CS degree did land (I graduated in May) so what the hell do I know.

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