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Television Media

Making the HDTV Vision Quest? 120

Posted by Cliff from the slashdot-maturity-rituals dept.
DumbSwede asks: "I have embarked on a do-it-yourself HDTV project with a NEC 135LC quad-XGA projector purchased on eBay. But I have only found 2 HDTV tuner cards, AccessDTV and WinTV-HD, both far short of quad-XGA resolution (if I am reading the specs right, they max out at SXGA for VGA output). ATI claims to support all DTV resolutions and has quad-XGA resolution with its All-In-Wonder 9700, but has only a standard analog tuner built in. A search of ATI or NVIDA web-sites, give no recommendations on DTV turners to use in conjunction with their products (perhaps either accessdtv or wintv-hd will work). Any details and insights would be appreciated, as two or three days of web searching seems not to have provided me with total solution answers."

"Granted an 8' foot wide front projection system is probably over kill for my bedroom, but the heart wants what the heart wants. For now I have had to be content with XGA and SXGA DVD playback from my 300 Mhz Dell Laptop. So far, the results appear better, than the best HDTV setup I have seen playing progressive scan DVD, so I am anxious to get to the next level, now that HDTV is supposedly finally rolling out in my area.

As an aside, I have noticed that broadcasters are transmitting in a range of resolutions from 480p to 1080i, but all the HDTVs I have seen for sale are 720p or lower (although 720p on 720p looks pretty sweet).

NVIDA mentions the need for a digital TV tuner with compressed transport stream and software decoder. ATI I think needs MST (MPEG Stream Transport)

With the booming market in Graphics boards, one would think they'd be falling over themselves to provide HDTV solution information, but a site search of ATI, only gives HDTV details by way of a press release, and comes up short on how to best get the job done.

The plan is to buy a 2ghz+ system with DVD RW-/+ from Dell with Window XP (I have no desire to be a Linux pioneer on this project), and drop everything in and have it working within a few minutes. Easily converting my back video collection is a high priority with this project (though a AIW9700 would be overkill for this, and perhaps overkill for HDTV as well) and having a decent digital video recorder to time shift both HD and Analog TV shows. I would also like to have multiple monitor outputs so I can web-surf and watch HDTV on my big screen at full res at the same time (without annoying hiccups). I am not a really a gamer (anymore), so again, perhaps the AIW9700 is overkill (as well as being pricey), though it seems to have all the other essential features I crave (though earlier model AIWs should have them as well). With this kind of size and resolution, I may wish to get back into flight simulators again and getting back into gaming is not out of the question."
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Making the HDTV Vision Quest? More

Making the HDTV Vision Quest?

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  • Check AVSForum (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:16PM (#5035327)
    Try www.avsforum.com for shitloads of info. In particular, the HTPC forums. There are several other HDTV cards out there (I don't follow it since OTA HDTV isn't in my area yet) and lots of advice on what type of hardware/software to consider.

    Good luck.

  • Stay Away from the Hauppauge WinTV-HD (Score:3, Informative)

    by pyite69 ( 463042 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:16PM (#5035329)
    I have one of these and the hardware is nice,
    but the software is more or less useless. The
    last update on their site is from April 2002,
    so it looks like they have just given up on it.

    BTW, what is Quad XGA? Why would you want 4
    times the headache-inducing interlaced 1024
    line mode?

    You are going to be a pioneer on this one.
    Time shifting of HDTV requires moving a LOT
    of data. If you have an infinite amount of
    money and can hack well, the WinTV-HD would
    actually be a good start - just buy the
    driver source code and make it work properly.
    If anyone is interested in trying this, let
    me know.

  • ... for the scoop on current HDTV solutions is http://AVSForum.com There you can learn that you missed the best HDTV card. This one: http://www.telemann.com/products/dtv200.html

    Its software is top notch because its written and supported by card owners on the forums at that site.
    • Two questions:

      1) The avsforum.com is hard to navigate. Got a direct link to the software?

      2) Dare I ask about Linux?


    • So, uh, how can they support Linux on this
      Telemann card? Teralogic (the hdtv chip
      manufacturer) is staunchly Anti-Linux; there
      are no specifications or drivers anywhere.
    • About the HiPix card: It's software is top notch because its written and supported by card owners on the forums at that site.

      Seconded! I have a HiPix and I use the AVS version of the software [midwinter.com]. The current version is solid and I use it every day. I can hardly wait for the next version, as I know that they'll add even more useful, user requested features (as opposed to the usual practice of piling on crap). The DVHS playback feature alone saved me a couple of hundred dollars on a component to RGB converter. Another tool developed by a Forum member is DVHSTool [kgbird.com], which lets me archive HiPix (or other DTV card files) to and from tape.

  • This is a good place to ask questions.

    http://www.avsforum.com

  • TV is Not That Important (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuperJames_74 ( 548630 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:19PM (#5035343) Homepage
    I don't get the whole super-duper mega-super-size TV craze, anyhow. I mean, it's just TV. You're just sitting there, being immobilized and spoon fed artificial ideals by observing make-believe stories and/or lives of media-friendly commercial-pimping characters in some fabulously unrealistic plot. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to set my TiVo to record Friends while I watch Survivor...
    • Damn this was funny! But then again so was that First Penis post up above. ;) I wonder who posted that... Anyway, someone should mod the parent up as funny.

    • Re:TV is Not That Important (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Selanit ( 192811 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @07:56PM (#5036007)
      You're just sitting there, being immobilized and spoon fed artificial ideals by observing make-believe stories and/or lives of media-friendly commercial-pimping characters in some fabulously unrealistic plot.

      Television can indeed be stultifying. I think the reason that we continue to watch it nonetheless is that we have an inborn need for continuing validation of the way we think things are supposed to be. If we see that others behave in the same fashion as we do, then it reassures us that we are in tune with our culture. It helps us form a sense of ourselves as belonging to a larger social unit than just our families or immediate friends.

      In the past, this sort of external validation was provided by books, and before that by oral storytelling. The fact that the characters are fictitious makes them excellent for conveying abstract ideas about what an ideal person is supposed to be like.

      This sort of thing can be repressive and conservative in the extreme. Note that while most of our recent movies portray the ideal woman as sassy, smart, and independent, the ultimate fate of these heroines is the same as always: marriage and presumed domestic bliss. There is the implication that these characters are basically templates to model ourselves after. "If you follow the script, you will be fulfilled," whispers the sub-text, "And if you don't, you will be isolated and unhappy."

      That said, there are counter-examples: some shows subvert the dominant ideals through parody, satire, or irony. The Simpsons is a prime example. Regrettably, however, such counter-cultural shows are comparatively few. Likewise for movies; the vast majority of 'em are essentially forms of brainwashing, especially those out of Hollywood. Independent films from smaller labels are much more likely to be aware of their own messages. Books are subject to the same sort of division.

      There's no way we can stop doing this; there is no such thing as a totally unbiased text. We automatically encode our beliefs into anything we write, or sing, or act. And though this is a subjective value judgement on my part, I find that the best pieces of literature are the ones that are aware of this fact. They don't have to be progressive, or anything: simply being aware of the effects and writing a thoughtful and deliberate piece of work makes it a lot better than a simple regurgitation of dominant values.

      As for wanting really big televisions, I think that's more of a status competition than anything else. If your neighbors can watch your television from across the street and not miss any details, that advertises your ability to spend large amounts of money on fancy equipment. Same as big expensive cars.

      Anyway, this post is getting long and rambling, so I'll shut up now.

      • "Television can indeed be stultifying. I think the reason that we continue to watch it nonetheless is that we have an inborn need for continuing validation of the way we think things are supposed to be. If we see that others behave in the same fashion as we do, then it reassures us that we are in tune with our culture. It helps us form a sense of ourselves as belonging to a larger social unit than just our families or immediate friends."

        hmm that or we are just bored shitless, take your pick.

      • If your neighbors can watch your television from across the street and not miss any details, that advertises your ability to spend large amounts of money on fancy equipment.

        "Now I can watch 'The Simpsons' from 30 miles away!"

        (By chance is this guy's name Frank [azlyrics.com]?)

      • Personally every time I catch myself zoning in front of the tube I wonder: what's the difference between a show that you really want to watch, and a (psychological) drug addiction?
        I mean, instead of shooting a chemical into your bloodstream, in this case the delivery vehicle is your optic nerve. Since the part of the body being affected is intellectual and not chemical, the delivery has to be necessarily more subtle; to get an high TV typically focuses on emotional responses - like a 'command-line' drug that turns on/off adrenalin, endorphins, and all the other wierd crap in our heads.
        It's kind of the 'ultimate' drug delivery - why sell an illegal, dangerous chemical on the street, when you can (through the presentation of phosphor images and sounds in the appropriate combinations) induce the addict's body to create not only the need but the drugs themselves?

        Anyway, thinking like this kind of helps me veer away from spending my hours in front of the tube.
    • "You're just sitting there, being immobilized and spoon fed artificial ideals..."

      Do people still like watch tv like this? I can't remember the last time I didn't have a computer in-sight while watching a little tube.
      • IMHO T.V is the greatest weapon available to governments at the powers that be. They can constantly drown you in thier ideas, products and way of life. From as soon as we can foucus on the little screen we are subjected to someone elses ideals of what we need and want and how we should live.

        The little box tells us what music we should listen to, what clothes we should wear, what is right in the world and what is wrong.

        Even the 'radical new' TV shows that 'break down barriers' and 'tell it like it is' will have had to be passed thru several TV executives and OKed by the men at the top.
        There is no chance they will broadcast anything they dont want you to see.

        Now if you want to get realy paranoid, programs like the X-Files, Startrek, Stargate etc are there to very slowly condition the public to the fact that we may not be alone in the universe. This sorta thing will put a big question mark on all global religions, and the 'fact' that we may not be alone will take a long time to accept. Not overnight orover a few years but over several generations.

        OK now you are all probably laughing, but look back in history how various countries round the world misslead their populations with propoganda to get away with the undesirable stuff that they did.

        Anyway as I said this is all IMHO and probably a load of old tosh, but there you go... Who do you believe?

        B.

  • Visit AVSForum.com for exactly the info you want (Score:5, Informative)

    by sdo1 ( 213835 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:19PM (#5035344) Journal
    There are two extremely important steps necessary for a successful DIY HDTV experience...

    1) Go to the AVS Forum's HTPC section [avsforum.com]

    2) Start reading.

    The people there have already come across every issue you will encounter. They're extremely helpful. It's an absolutely invaluable resource.

    Once you get your HDTV setup working, be sure to visit their HDTV section [avsforum.com], especially the HDTV Programming [avsforum.com] section.

    -S

  • Get one of those tuner-cards and display the picture using an appropriate ATI or NVIDIA card. You are not forced to use the limited video output from the tuner card itself.
  • I have gone down the same path. The WinTV-HD seems to be the only viable PC solution. My goal is to build a silent PC to hook up to my home theater.

    I want to build my own TiVo-like solution, but am not willing to invest in anything that does not record HD signals.

    On the gaming front, I have suffered a serious blow to my PC-ego. I am playing Metroid Prime on my son's GameCube with progressive (480p) 16:9 output (via component-video cable purchased from Nintendo) to my 34" (16:9) Sony HDTV. It also has Dolby II Stereo pumping through my 5.1 sound system. It is as intense and refreshing as I remember Half-Life. Just don't tell my friends that I'm playing on a GameCube. :-)
    • I'm starting a home theatre PC solution using Freevo (freevo.sourceforge.net). It'll do movies, mp3, image slide shows, and even initial support for MAME. What a perfect addition to a home theatre.

      Just two days ago I bought a sweet Samsung widescreen HDTV, and a few weeks ago a DD 5.1 receiver. I must say that Metroid Prime is a great test for both audio and video. What a sweet game. And I thought it was amazing *before* my home theatre upgrade...

      Seriously, the game is a reason to buy a GameCube if you don't own one.
    • Not to get too nit-picky, but Metroid Prime does not support 16:9 displays (which irritated me to no end), even in 480p mode. It's rather odd, since the game actually would benefit greatly from such a mode. Still, I found my Sony TV's 'wide zoom' setting to be quite acceptable, in fact possibly preferrable to a standard 4:3 setting as the distortion enhances the feeling that it's being viewed through a curved visor.
      • Ummmm. I believe Metroid Prime DOES support 16:9 mode. In fact, the manual goes out of it's way to warn you that if you select progressive scan, you may get 16:9 mode. I'm not sure what the "may" means though.

        At any rate, when I use FULL mode on my Sony, it fills the screen nicely. Circular objects are indeed circular, which is a pretty clear indicator to me that I am getting a 16:9 signal, since FULL mode only looks correct on a Sony widescreen if it is receiving a 16:9 image.
        • The 'may' means that it might lock your television into 16:9 mode, not the game. Some televisions automatically go into 16:9 mode and cannot be taken out of that mode when displaying a progressive scan signal. This is a big concern for buyers of progressive scan DVD players because some movies aren't in a 16:9 aspect ratio. There's a FAQ somewhere on IGN where it's confirmed that the game does not have progressive scan support. Try playing the game with progressive scan disabled and see if it looks any different with respect to the object ratios.

          I think that what's happened is that the game is a little horizontaly squished more than it should be (since they were trying to go for a first-person visor look on a 4:3 ratio dispaly), and putting your TV in 'full' alleviates that some. I also adjusted the video settings for maximum horizontal compression, so that the stretch distortion would be minimal.

  • This Link (Score:2, Informative)

    by awarlaw ( 102125 )
    will keep you busy for Days. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/ There is a whole section devoted to HTPCs That has the answers and then some!!

  • Amen (Score:3, Informative)

    by zvogt ( 465599 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:22PM (#5035359)
    I went on this same quest several months ago, and I too was completely disheartened by what WinTV had to offer, and the other option you mentioned was pushing a monthly fee (what kind of BS is that?)
    One you didn't mention was:
    http://www.cinefx.com/mdp100.htm
    which I was THIS CLOSE to breaking down and buying, but after spending many many hours researching the currently available products, my logic centers were able to win out over my instant-gratification centers. As much as I don't want to wait, I honestly believe the best advice to those who are close to making the HD leap would be: wait the 6 or 8 months until the big name TV manufactures have competing lines of all-in-one televisions sets that have fully integrated high-def tuners.
  • Check out the MyHD hdtv card. It works great and recording to your hard drive is a snap. Download the hdtv2mpeg tool (from avsforum) to convert the transport stream to mpeg. They are available for around $329 and maybe less on ebay.

    • Is there no Linux support? Linux support is
      critical.

      Also, I tried to find hdtv2mpeg on avsforum and
      Google but couldn't find any reference to it.
      Can you provide a URL? I have been using the
      dvbtools (apt-get install dvb-mpegtools IIRC)
      and ts2ps is able to do a decent conversion for
      playback with xine/mplayer/etc.
    • I have the MyHD card and I like it. The avsforum seems to have pretty good communication w/ the developers(look for Cliff Watson).
      There are 2 things this card won't seem to do(tho I don't really buy thier explainations of why).
      1) it doesn't "timeshift" like Tivo. You can record and watch later, and you can record now and watch now, but you can't record now and watch something else or record now and watch in a few seconds, and you can't pause live tv.
      2) no cable decoding, tho it has the hardward. The company claims legal issues, tho everyone else in the world seems to be fine with this and hasn't had any legal problems.
      Another warning is that the software leaves some to be desired. A new version is due out soon tho and they claim many many many bugs have been squashed and many features have been updated and added.

      • Since this software is user-supported, does that
        mean that it is usable in Linux? I can only
        dream about using Linux for this... that would
        be nice.

        Thanks,
        Mark
    • Or, you can pay $299 new and in the box direct.

      http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/ my hd.asp
  • http://www.prolink.com.tw/new_web/products/multime dia/PlayTV%20HD_new.htm
  • I can't answer your question for you. But have you checked out the AVS Forum? Their Forum on Home Theater Computers [avsforum.com] should be just what you're looking for because a specialized forum should be able to give you better information than this forum. The AVS forums are very well populated and you should be able to find someone who can answer your question over there.

  • total solution answers... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by core plexus ( 599119 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:24PM (#5035376) Homepage
    ...will require a significant investment of time and energy. You already know this, after two or three days of searching. Might want to settle in for the long haul. Personally, I have yet to see anything on TV interesting enough to incite me to want to see it better. Some of those projectors are very nice, but you already know this, too.

    How many mouse nuts does it take to make 12 pounds of mouse nuts? [xnewswire.com]

  • I've already done this... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:28PM (#5035389)
    I have an NEC XG 1352LC driven by a HTPC with a HiPix HDTV card in it. I have it driving the projector at 1920 x 1080i and it is fantastic. While the projector will accept resolutions higher than this, there is really no reason to do so as the tube faces won't really resolve much past that. I have a 10' screen and people's jaws drop when I fire up my local (San Francisco) public station (KQED) which uses one of it's feeds to broadcast amazing 1080i footage 24 hours a day (most of it is eye candy made by other public stations around the US showing off their State or city). The Hipix card also has an excellent Svideo capture interface which is much better than my old Happphauge one running Dscaler [sourceforge.net] (which I still use in other situations... like when I want to show 4:3 footage in 16:9 format).

    The folks over at Avsforum [avsforum.com] should be able to answer any other questions you have. There's a group of people there who write open source software for the Hipix so no DRM on the HDTV shows you record!

    • Sure the resolution sounds great (2500x2000), but this page [crtcinema.com] lists your projector as being 140 lbs with a Peak Lumens of 1100. I presume that it's a big old CRT projection model?

      What's the difference between it and a XG-135, which this guy [google.com] says he just bought used for $10,000?

      In any case, considering my small city-core apartment, I think I'll hold out for the 10-lb 2000 lumen $3000 LCD/DLP stuff that'll do 1600x1200. (me starts praying that replacement bulbs start getting cheaper than $300 per 1000 hour bulb).
      • The prime difference between CRT and LCD isn't brightness, it's pixel shape. CRTs simply look better... LCD's unavoidably have blatantly square pixels with dark space between them, and, while it's good enough (though not great) for computer usage, it just sucks for video. This is why people pay more, lots more, for CRT projectors.
      • You are right that this unit isn't the brightest, but this is an EXCELLENT projector for home theatre if you can get the room moderately dark.

        The resolution of this thing will blow away anything currently available on the market (at least AFAIK, and I've done a LOT of searching.) ;) You just have to see a wall sized 1600x1200 or higher on this baby. These are multisync and will do a very respectable refresh rate, have excellend color, and can be driven via RGB, Component, S-Video and Composite. The resolutions you get by driving it with a computer via RGB will blow away any std. video (15kHz) DVD player around.

        I makaged to pick one of these up at my local University Surplus Property Sale last summer for a whopping $15. ;) They said it was broken, but it just had one of the main cards partially unplugged. WhoooHOoo! ;)

  • Dude, (Score:4, Informative)

    by sheddd ( 592499 ) <jmeadlock.perdidobeachresort@com> on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:28PM (#5035391)
    Wait.

    Don't spend the big bucks now; stick with the resolution you have. The industry is in chaos and your solution might not work so well with mandated encryption for broadcast TV. According to this article, it'll be illegal to decrypt broadcast video (unless at STV resolution, or output thru DVI using HDCP encryption) anywhere but inside the display device:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_1/feature- article-digital-home-video-2-2002.html [hometheaterhifi.com]

  • Satellite (Score:4, Insightful)

    by T3kno ( 51315 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:34PM (#5035412) Homepage
    Why dont you get a sat dish from DirecTV or DishNetwork (subscribe or pirate depending on budget and ethics) and use one of the HDTV receivers they have, I know DirecTV has a couple of HDTV receivers that support DVI/D-SUB out as well as the standard component and s-video. Just plug that directly into the projector, there are only a few channels that are broadcasting HDTV right now, but the difference is pretty noticeable, especially on a nice projector. My boss just got a 9 inch 3 chip DLP installed in his house (130" screen) and HDTV looks schweet on there. I prefer CRT's for the color though.

  • MyHD & HiPix (Score:2, Informative)

    by moby11 ( 537087 )
    The Home Theater Computer forum at AVSForum [avsforum.com] has a ton of info. I use the MyHD [digitalconnection.com] card for HD tuning & recording. Another poular one (w/ psuedo-open source code) use the HiPix [digitalconnection.com]

  • Get a MyHD card (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jah-Wren Ryel ( 80510 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @05:49PM (#5035477)
    There are other choices, definitely stay away from the Hauppauge, their founder died and it seems that with his passing so has any passion for HDTV.

    The MyHD [digitalconnection.com] card is an excellent choice though. It has active software development and currently has support for recording both ATSC (HDTV) and NTSC - most similar cards only do ATSC because it is easy - it is already in MPEG form off the air.

    All cards, except the AccessTV are one-way only. You can either record/watch incoming HDTV or play recorded HDTV but not both at the same time. The Access card essentially has two cards in one and comes the closest to tivo-like functionality, but they are known for flakey software and taking up two slots and being hot.

    All of the cards (except the WinTV-D, the predecessor to the WinTV-HD) are based on the Janus ATSC decoder chipset. Janus, recently purchased (by Oak Technologies?) has never been, and still isn't, interested in supporting linux driver development. Programming specs are only available under tight NDA...

    Check out the HDTV forums and the Linux HTPC forum at avsforum [avsforum.com] for lots of talk about this kind of thing. Beware, avsforum has been growing by leaps and bounds and their server is in need of an upgrade (seems like they upgrade at least every 6 months), so it is probably a little slow and might come to a halt under the mighty gaze of slashdot...
  • the Home Theater Forum [hometheaterforum.com]. These guys live for this stuff. Search/Post in the audio/visual or display devices sections.

  • and there's still nothing on.

  • Umm... nearly all HDTV's support 1080i (Score:4, Informative)

    by trcooper ( 18794 ) <coop@redout . o rg> on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @06:22PM (#5035653) Homepage
    As an aside, I have noticed that broadcasters are transmitting in a range of resolutions from 480p to 1080i, but all the HDTVs I have seen for sale are 720p or lower (although 720p on 720p looks pretty sweet).

    Every HDTV I have seen has suport for 1080i. Very few have support for 720p. 720p is primarily used for sporting events, most programming will be in 1080i. I believe Toshiba's support 720p in addition to 1080i, but for the most part, they support 1080i (720p is converted to 1080i or 480p) in the HDTV realm and 480i/p in the DTV realm.

    I have the Panasonic 53WX42, and can garuntee it supports 1080i. It's absolutely goregeous.
    • Maybe what he meant was very few sets are actually capable of displaying the full resolution of 1080i. You are correct that pretty much all sets support 1080i inputs, but almost all can't display that many pixels. Aside from Toshiba's new 3-chip LCOS rear projection tv, or a front or rear projection crt with 9" guns, almost nothing is actually capable of resolving 1920x1080 pixels.
      • My RCA is fully capable of displaying the 1920x1080 picture. It is a RCA F38310. This is a 38inch widescreen CRT based display. I have DirecTV and the HD Net [hd.net] channel (HD Net is in 1080i). It is amazing, simply stunning. Really, there aren't words to describe the picture in some of the documentaries they show.
        • Actually, that set cannot resolve a full 1920 vertical lines. It can do about 1300 according to folks who have the equipment to test such things. Still that's the about the best among all the consumer grade direct view tubes out there, and better than most rear projection sets. I think the F38310 is by far the best HDTV direct view set for the money.
    • Every HDTV I have seen has suport for 1080i.

      This isn't the whole story...

      Most HDTVs are coming with a 1280x720 (aka 720p) "native" resolution (or something a tad higher to allow for overscanning). The sets will accept a 1080i (aka 1920x1080) signal and then downsample it into the native resolution. I know a guy who rushed out and bought what he thought was a good deal on an "HDTV" projector. He was pretty mad when he found that it was only 800x600 native.

      I have the Panasonic 53WX42, and can garuntee it supports 1080i. It's absolutely goregeous.

      Not as gorgeous as if it was actually displaying the entire 1920x1080 picture!
      • Most HDTVs are coming with a 1280x720 (aka 720p) "native" resolution (or something a tad higher to allow for overscanning).

        Maybe there is a confusion between different technologies HDTVs..
        Almost all of CRT and projection HDTVs have 1080i resolution. And completely different story with plasma or LCDs ones. Especially with affordable (cheap) plasma/LCDs.

        Basically it's just technologically easier to make CRT and projection TVs with 1080i resolution and drop 720p. And plasma/LCDs have no problem with progressive scan but limited in pixel's quantity which lead to something like 720p for them.

  • If you try loading up a Dell PC with HDTV gear (card, extra hard drive(s), etc) you're likely to overload their weak power supplies (250W on a P4?!), at which point you'll probably think you can just swap in an Antec 550W from your local toy store and be on your way. Think again [upgradinga...ingpcs.com]. Dell uses a nonstandard pinout on their ATX power supplies for no good reason.

    If you must buy a prebuilt machine from a big vendor, MicronPC [micronpc.com] offers a better than average component selection, including industry standard 300W ATX power supplies (which is still low by my standards but better than most other big vendors) and nVidia nForce2 motherboards. I still custom build my PCs though.

    FWIW, I have an AccessDTV card in my dual CPU Athlon rig. They've shaken most of the bugs out with the latest beta software. There's no Linux support though. I'm not aware of any HDTV card that's Linux-friendly (anyone?). There's a neat 1024p mode that works great with 1280x1024 res monitors.

  • HTPC (Score:2, Informative)

    by LEPP ( 166342 )
    I have pretty much finished building my HTPC (Home Theater PC). I would suggest visiting some forums. Specifically avs forum [avsforum.com]. Some things that you might want to check out is a MyHD card. It will upscale existing resolution to 1080i. It will also take an existing hd transmition and allow you to output it to an HDTV. The MyHD card comes with tuner software and a remote. Secondly you should look into getting some software called PowerStrip. This allows for dynamic resolution settings. Different applications will require different resolutions. It also allows you to tweak refresh and color. A good etailer/retailer is digital connection [digitalconnection.com]. You can get the MyHD card there. Also they sell low profile cases that look like stereo components. Another thing that you should get is a VGA to component switch. This will take a vga output and convert it to a digital component output for your hdtv. Some of the experts suggest specific motherboards. The one that I got upon someone's suggestion is the Asus P4B533 P4 Socket 478 DDR Motherboard. Apparently, there are certain chipsets that are very good for multimedia. I think that the chipset that is in the Asus is the Intel 845 but I can't remember if that is correct. Also that board comes with a digital coax and dolby 5.1 on the board. You can save a couple of bucks this way. You could also buy an expensive sound card and get a little better quality but not much better. Do the M$ XP as well. They have better multimedia support and can support a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse, which you might want. The blue tooth has better range than other RF and you don't have to worry about obstructions. There are other HD cards out there such as Holo3DGraph, but they can be very expensive. MyHD gives you good bang for you buck. BTW, you will still need a regular Video card. They suggest a ATI Radeon. That is the standard for HTPCs. For watching DVD, you will want TheaterTech and for enabling remote operation, you will want to look into the software package Girder (spelling). Before you buy anything, go to the avsforum website and check with some people who have been doing this a long time. They even have a Linux HTPC forum. Sorry, but the drivers for the MyHD card on Linux are not available....yet.

  • some tips (Score:3, Informative)

    by dfay ( 75405 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @08:30PM (#5036294)
    Everyone else here has suggested avsforum.com, which is the best place to find the info you want and more. I'd also suggest you look at www.hometheaterforum.com. It's a nice site with tons of info too.

    I have a Sony similar to your projector but older (1272) and would suggest you do what they call an "anamorphic squeeze" (search on avsforum) and use 1280x720 as your native resolution. That should be very resolvable by your 8" guns. I guess having 1920x1080 interlaced might look better for source material at that res, but your projector will not resolve it, so you'll have overscan. (That's where each line is drawn slightly overlapping the previous line, so they all blend together. It is caused by your electronics being able to handle higher resolutions than your optics.) You really need 9" guns to resolve 1080i.

    I currently haven't taken the HDTV plunge, since TV really isn't that important to me. You might consider how important TV programming is to you, regardless of the specs. After all, if all you can get is the latest Friends and Jay Leno in HD, what's the point? I mainly watch DVDs (using WinDVD or PowerDVD) scaled up to 720p. That's the source material I care about more.

    BTW, if you don't mind running Windows, which will almost be a necessity, it is a lot of fun to play games on. I got a Radeon (nVidia cards are ok too) and used Powerstrip to insert a custom timing for 1280x720. After that, I installed the latest DirectX and now many games (mostly the 3D ones) will recognize and allow the 1280x720 res. It's a lot of fun to play Need for Speed Porsche Unleashed or games like that on a 100+" diagonal screen. :) The widescreen aspect ratio almost makes it better, especially for racing/flying types of games.

    Anyway, enjoy the new hobby. You'll never be able to give it up once you start. :)

  • *GA (Score:3, Insightful)

    by captaineo ( 87164 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @08:57PM (#5036490)
    Dontcha wish they'd stop using those stupid XGA/SXGA/QXGA/whatever acronyms and just tell you how many damn *pixels* the thing does horizontally and vertically...

    • Re:*GA (Score:1)

      by ez76 ( 322080 )
      Dontcha wish they'd stop using those stupid XGA/SXGA/QXGA/whatever acronyms and just tell you how many damn *pixels* the thing does horizontally and vertically...
      LOL, IIRC there's actually cogent rationale for some of these acronyms but IANAL so YMMV.
      • Yeah, the early ones like "CGA", "EGA", and "VGA" had very specific meanings (certain combinations of horizontal/vertical resolution and color palette). "SVGA" was a quasi-standard for a variety of video modes from 320x240x8bits up to 1600x1200x32bits and beyond. "XGA" was an IBM proprietary standard that never became popular, and everything since has just been pure marketing buzzwords. ("It has QXGA instead of SXGA so it must be better...")

        It's interesting that Apple, one of the most marketing-driven of computer vendors, still tells you the exact pixel resolution.

        And don't get me started on the digital camera industry for deciding to multiply it out and tell you they've got "X megapixels"...

        • Re:*GA (Score:1)

          by ez76 ( 322080 )
          It's interesting that Apple, one of the most marketing-driven of computer vendors, still tells you the exact pixel resolution.
          Ironic because they were the first ones to do away with the base-2 math and just say "thousands of colors" or "millions of colors" depending on 15/16- or 24-bit modes ... ... IIRC

  • HDTV PCI Cards (Score:4, Informative)

    by -tji ( 139690 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @09:10PM (#5036570) Journal
    Here is the situation on with HDTV PCI cards..

    All of the current field of cards is based on the Janus reference design, by Teralogic. So, they are all very similar.

    They all take a standard antenna as input (cheap UHF antennas, like the Radio Shack double bowtie work great). They have onboard ATSC Digital TV tuners, which decode the 19.3Mbps data channel containing MPEG2 video Digital audio (some channels support Dolby Digital 5.1 audio). They have onboard MPEG2 hardware decoders which output the HDTV programs in their high resolution formats (1080i: 1920x1080 interlaced or 720p: 1280x720 progressive). They output through a VGA/RGB port, though some support transcoding to component video out. They can also output on the PC desktop in a small scaled down video window.

    The Players:

    - Telemann HiPix DTV-200 - http://www.telemann.com/products/dtv200.html - Probably the most popular, has been around for a long time, but seems to be abandoned by Telemann. There is some driver source code availability (not open source, but available to the community under restricted terms) and people at avsforum.com have made large contributions. Availability of the card is pretty spotty, and ongoing support is very questionable.

    - AccessDTV - http://www.accessdtv.com/accessdtv/index.htm - Card has some additional hardware, which enables some Tivo-like features, such as pausing live tv with the view buffer. Initially this card was unpopular because they felt the need to encrypt their data files, eliminating the possibility of sharing between PC's or even editing files. Recent versions of their software have relented on this encryption stance, so this could be a good card.

    - MIT MDP-100 ( the "MyHD" card ) - http://www.mitinc.co.kr/e_pccard.htm - $300 - Has two antenna inputs, handy for positioning seperate antennas to get all stations. Also includes the ability to play back DVD's at 480P or non-CCS VOB files at HDTV resolutions, which is a great feature for a home theater.. DVD's look great scaled to 720P. Drivers are still immature and can be unstable, but not bad for normal usage.

    - Digital STREAM HiDTV Pro HDTV - http://www.pc-dtv.com/ - $370 - Relatively new card, very similar to others, software looks more polished than some others.

    - Happauge WinTV-HD - http://www.hauppauge.com/html/products.htm - Poor drivers, no recording capability. Product appears to be abandoned, no driver updates. Stay away from this card.

    - Happauge WinTV-D - http://www.hauppauge.com/html/products.htm - Similar to the above card, except it only displays at 480i on the desktop (it scales all hi-res HDTV down to standard TV resolutions). This card may be okay if you ONLY want to watch digital TV on your PC desktop in a little window. If you want to watch on an HDTV, stay away from this card.

    • WinTV-HD can record (Score:3, Informative)

      by Wag ( 102501 )
      I have a WinTV-HD and can save the transport stream to my harddrive just fine.

      But you're right about the drivers, they suck. Stay far away.
    • now we are talking about linux drivers right? :-)

      im asking because i went to every single link you stated and none of the manufacturers explicitly stated that they support linux drivers
      • Unfortunately not... There are currently NO vendors that support Linux drivers for their PCI HD PCI cards. In fact, they won't even release their spec's so people can independently make Linux drivers.

        I have e-mailed the card vendors directly, and they defer to Teralogic, who created the card design and licensed the original drivers. Teralogic has been unresponsive to many requests for Linux driver or hardware specs.

  • On and Off since September I've been trying to send video from an ATI 8500dv with an ATI dongle apparatus [ati.com] to a Sony HDTV without much success.

    5% of the perimeter of the display is overscanned. Basically, this makes it useless.

    No real fix [ati.com] and I haven't found anyone that is happy with the ATI product in this capacity.

    Do I feel cheated...YES

  • Would just like HDTV VGA box (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Krellan ( 107440 ) <krellan@NOspAm.krellan.com> on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @09:36PM (#5036735) Homepage Journal
    I would be interested in a standalone box (no PC connection or software required) that converts HDTV to VGA. It would output to any ordinary PC monitor that accepts VGA. Many people have extra monitors lying around and it would be very cost effective to simply convert these into HDTV sets instead of buying new HDTV gear.

    This ideal box would have:

    * Antenna input, for the raw signal from the antenna
    * HDTV tuner, with selectable channel (including selectable feed if channel is multiplexed)
    * VGA output, to an ordinary PC monitor
    * Audio output, with standard RCA jacks (or optional digital jacks) for sound
    * Downscaler, to downgrade to a lower resolution in case the VGA monitor does not support a given resolution (the VESA DDC standard would be used to query the VGA monitor and detect what resolutions it supports, without needing user configuration)
    * Optional remote control for the HDTV tuner

    Simple, cost effective, does not require purchase of a monstrously huge and expensive set in order to watch HDTV, and does not involve the complication and setup hassles of a PC.

    Does such a box exist? I would love to buy one.
  • I have put together a system that I can use for video capture from TV/HDTV/S-Video/or RCA. I plan on outputting the video to a Samsung 30" wide screen HDTV. Since my ATI AIW 8500DV is doing the actual video output, I can change the resolution to anything the card can handle, not what the MyHD Tuner can handle. If you want time shifting functions then Access DTV is the only card that offers it. The AVSforum is the only place to go for help with this kind of stuff. If you want to do HDTV capture you might want to consider doing an offsite storage medium like a digital VCR. If you want D-Theater, then JVC is the way to go, if you don't care about that, then Mitsubishi has a nice model. They are bit pricey now but have been coming down steadily. And being able to record 50GB in HDTV means that you don't have to have a Terrabyte system to hold your seasons of whatever. Or you could do like me. I capture Alias and then use HDTV2MPEG2 to pull out the mpeg2 from the transport stream. I then go through some hoops for the audio and run the video through TMPG actually downgrading it to DVD quality which I then burn :) Have a nice digital wide screen copy of the show that I can enjoy anytime. BTW, an hour of HDTV is about 8-9GB of hard drive space.
  • -- Telemann HiPix DTV-200 was the best. Best on-screen information, and it worked as stated. Also, driver/sw support for this product continues to move forward with additional features such as commercial skip being added regularly.

    Hauppauge's has a crap interface and we were never able to play back recorded content.

    AccessDTV's product was fine but didn't offer the on-screen information provided by the HiPix.

    Here is a link to a decent review/roundup of them:
    http://www.techtv.com/freshgear/print/0,231 02,3409 693,00.html

    Now, if I can use the RF-based remote wonder (ATI) with a device like this it would be awesome...should be possible.

    Word of warning: the HiPix is a big card! forget trying to stuff it into a Shuttle-style case...no room ;) If I could ask for anything on revision 2, it would be a smaller PCB for it so it would fit into the tiny cases.

    Peace out.

  • MyHD all the way (Score:3, Interesting)

    by YetAnotherName ( 168064 ) on Tuesday January 07, 2003 @11:21PM (#5037452) Homepage
    I use the MyHD [digitalconnection.com] card and haven't looked back. Except at the TV, that is.

    My MyHD is in a 1.8GHz P4 HTPC in an equipment closet connected with about 25 feet of Y/Pb/Pr cable to a Toshiba 34HF81 HDTV (1080i). One antenna input is from over-the-air broadcasts (Dallas area), the other from analog cable TV.

    Record and playback is with an IDE-baed RAID array with a SCSI interface, currently less than 1TB of storage, but more planned.

    DVDs that I've legally purchased get DeCSS'd and go onto the RAID array under a subdirectory named FairUse. Then the originals go into a box for safekeeping and I play just the personal, legal backup copies. (Take that, Jack V.).

    MyHD plays back the DVDs, cable TV, and over-the-air HDTV (mainly PBS specials and Jennifer Garner in Alias :-) in stunning 1080i.

    True, the driver's aren't entirely stable, but it works well enough for HDTV and SDTV timeshifting as well as DVD playback.

    And I learned about all this stuff from AVS Forum [avsforum.com]. Ask there, and learn.
    • My MyHD is in a 1.8GHz P4 HTPC in an equipment closet connected with about 25 feet of Y/Pb/Pr cable to a Toshiba 34HF81 HDTV (1080i). One antenna input is from over-the-air broadcasts (Dallas area), the other from analog cable TV.
      What brand component cable? If custom, whose cable/connectors do you use/recommend? Is there noticeable high frequency loss over 25 feet given the increased bandwidth of 1080i?
      • Belden 7710A from Blue Jeans Cable [bluejeanscable.com], who will also custom make your desired length.

        True, the longer the length, the higher the high frequency loss; luckily, analog component video at 1080i doesn't suffer noticeably (even more than 50 feet, if you can believe some AVS Forum members). Apparently, you can go quite a distance from your equipment closet to your high-def projector, plasma, CRT, or what-have-you.
  • i have Zenith C27V22 HDTV
    it has 1080i HDTV component input, 480p component input and also something that looks just like standard vga connector.

    in the manual it says that its a "RGB VGA in."

    does that mean i can just hook up my pc directly into it? of course with proper resolution and refresh rate.

    if thats true then i just wasted $200 for progressive scan dvd player w/ mp3 playback :-)
  • I purchaced a pair of bunny-ear antennas for my old color TV today. I've had cable since I've moved into the dorms, but since my mom doesn't have it I've had to go back to bunny-ears.

    They were $7 at walmart, and the package said "digital ready" which, to be honest, confused the hell out of me for a while, untill I remembered that HDTV was broadcast over regular airwaves. I find it kind of ironic that all you need are these little mettal tubes to pick up HTDV, when so often people have cable or at least rooftop antenas. In fact, it seems like a lot of people are actualy ignorant of the fact that you can pick up TV signals using them anymore.

    (What's really strange is the story of a friend of mine who moved to Athens Ga. and could only get one TV station over the air, a hip-hop music video station. ABC, NBC, etc could only be had over cable...)

  • The television and movie industry is quietly making sure that copy protection is built into any HDTV Tuner/Reciever in existence. (NYT) I imagine they are also "discouraging" off the shelf computer parts from those chip set companies. I suspect that the chip companies that make the video cards have much more money at stake in the long run not running afoul of the movie and broadcast industries.

  • Granted an 8' foot wide front projection system is probably over kill for my bedroom, but the heart wants what the heart wants.

    Bigger-than-life porn.

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