DirecWay Satellite Configurations and LAN Configurations? 39
Need for Speed asks: "I just moved to the boonies and I'm looking into DirecWay from Hughes. I'm too far from my CO for ADSL and IDSL is too expensive. DirecWay requires their modem to be connected to the USB port and their software to be installed on the client. Multiple connections can be supported by enabling ICS (Internet Connection Sharing) in Windows on that client. I then can connect a router/etc to the ethernet card on that client. I don't want to sacrifice my Linux box to do this. A direct connection from the DirecWay modem to my Wi-Fi router would be nice, but it doesn't seem to be an option here. Has anyone successfully configured DirecWay without installing the DirecWay software and connecting the DirecWay modem directly to your computer?"
they're kidding, right? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:they're kidding, right? (Score:1)
Re:they're kidding, right? (Score:5, Informative)
A couple things about the need for USB: The directway hardware is actually two seperate units (TX and RX) daisy chained together. This allows them to be configured for both the one-way and the two-way satellite Internet configurations. Obviously the one-way satellite connection requires the modem in your computer to assist, so it must have some sort of direct connection to the computer. If they put an ethernet interface in it, then it'd only be functional for the two-way system.
So, why don't they just put an ethernet port in the Tx IRD? Well.. there are a couple of reasons they probably dont want to do this: The first is that the "software" you install really is basically just drivers for the IRD's and a configration tool to set up your account and whatnot.. it's not really fair to say that you have to install a whole suite of crap just to use the service. Anyway, the other nice little touch it does is to set MTU's and whatnot appropriately while the satellite network connection is active. If it didn't do this, users would constantly be complaining about how slow the service feels and DirectWay's network would be clogged with tinmeouts and tiny useless packets.
Also, keep in mind that these IRD's internally provide a serial datastream to and from the satellite. Could they put a router in it? Probably. Other satellite vendors have such devices. Would it cost a lot? Yeah probably would bring the already high equipment cost up a lot since they'd not really sell a lot of these... Would it hurt performance? Probably, if the average user does not alter certain network parameters, it would. Would it be a support nightmare? Probably, yeah.
Anyway, I really dislike their USB interface. There'd be a small but fledging market for a device that is a DirectWay ethernet router (Hello, linksys?
Incedentally, for anyone setting this up, running a transparent web proxy on the gateway machine helps a lot. It'll give the end users speedy web access without them having to adjust their network settings to properly cope with a satellite connection (though it wouldnt hurt for them to do it anyway)
~GoRK
Spot On! (Score:5, Informative)
I have also used this service, we used it to setup and internet connection in the middle of a forest, lets see ya get anything other than a satelitte connection in the middle of a forest ;)
The poster above is spot on with the description of the twin box unit etc. However there are a couple of points you need to consider. Firstly the software on your windows machine is used to download the correct keys to allow your connection to work. Once this has been setup they are stored in the satelite interface boxes, but you will need windows at least once for the setup / install.
Also, yeah the USB interface is not great, but there do exist satelite boxes for DirectWay that just provided an ethernet out - just expect to pay a LOT more for it. However ICS will work, as will other win32 Nat solutions. We used ICS with a separate linux webcache and caching DNS server. We ran a large number of PC's from this system with no real problems - however you will find the delay on dynamic pages - such as slashdot or web based mail client, is horrible. The speed is great, but the latency sucks :)
Re:they're kidding, right? (Score:2)
I have a DirecPC pci card I'd like to play with it, maybe they haven't changed much since then. Think I also have the external USB box for it to, but it uses a funky power supply I don't have (they need 5v for electronics, but 13v for the LNB?).
Now if only I had some starband hardware...
Re:they're kidding, right? (Score:2)
They mangle packets by both compression and stuffing as much of the TCP packets and HTTP requests into single packets as possible. This is to cut down on the little packets going back and forth like and TCP-IP 3-way handshake and the like.
Their proxy at the earthstation undoes a lot of this. They also do things like stripping destination IPs out of subsequent packets and packet fragments, inserting them back in at the earthstation proxy.
Basically, their software does some really nasty things to the packets and undoes it at the earthstation. They claim they optimize the hell out of everything for high-latency sat connections.
Thus, you can't just open up the box and wire in an ethernet jack. Black-magic, voodoo packet-mangling software is needed as well.
Buy another machine... (Score:1)
Sourceforge project (Score:5, Informative)
Next time, google.
Re:Sourceforge project (Score:4, Insightful)
Nope (Score:1, Redundant)
2-Way/DirecWay
I only have the 1-way service (In Australia, Bigpond charge rediculous
amounts for 2-way ($450/month as opposed to $80/month for 1-way)
The code is in place as a best guess for a 2-way service,
but there are a few things that must be done before it can work.
These include Tune the transmitter, add packet headers to the
packet before sending to the satmodem, and set dpc->flags |= DPC_2WAY
Again let me know if you implement this and I will link to / include your work.
Re:Nope (Score:2)
sure it isn't ethernet...? (Score:3, Informative)
pop the cover and have a look...if you don't mind voiding the warranty.
DIRECPC, DIRECWAY, the FAP, and alternatives (Score:1, Interesting)
i hope your understand the infamous FAP (Fair Access Policy). i never ordered DirecWay or DirecPC when I was totally rural because you basically pay for speed you can't use, unless you are just a light internet user. forget p2p unless you use a client that lets you limit dl speed. forget heavy downloading. i believe in its current implementation, the limits are that if you have the normal home user package and download more than a given amount, possibly 157 MB in 4 hours, not sure, you will be 'FAPPED' for the next 4-8 hours, which means the NOC slows the xfer speed to your ip to slower than modem speed for that period of time. you can upgrade to the 'business service' which last time i checked allowed around 500 MB in the same period of time before one was FAPPED, and which was around 99/month several months ago. i believe you can go to 3rd party resale reps and possibly get higher xfer packages than those above for more $ a month, but their pricing was outrageous by city standards. afaik, there is no 'unlimited dl' package.
people who've had the service have told me that getting FAPPED is capricious and unpredictable.
i believe that the competing satellite data service from the DISH network has similar restrictions (not sure) and last time i checked it was in bankruptcy.
alternatives:
if you connect thru a large telco, you can prob get ISDN, which can be expensive (SBC wants almost $100 a month and that doesn't include ISP charges) but at least the bandwidth is yours. some small telcos have it. many don't, and have no announced plans either for isdn or dsl any time between now and forever.
ATT offers synchronous DSL to a number of addresses that don't qualify for ADSL. their prices as of last fall were high, 100-150/month, for ISDN-like speeds. i don't have the right phone number for that service, would go to the web site and search.
some neighbors can band together for a local loop (likely very expensive and many rural telcos dont have a clue) (know some people who investigated this in rural north tx and gave up for the time being)
you can start a business providing fixed satellite service to your local town, if you live near enuf to a small but decent population center, and then try to setup the tower so that you're in range. no idea on feasability, know some rural areas in n texas that have this - have heard that in some towns the city govt paid for it and went into the ISP business, cannot confirm. a new one in my area is aledobroadband.com. know nothing of the business model.
if you live withing driving distance of a decent town with either cable or dsl, you can pay all or part of someone's dsl or cable, or rent/borrow a location and setup your own cable/dsl, and then move data via a portable hard drive.
when i first went rural there was no ISDN and i bonded modems and paid for part of my townie friend's cable modem. after ISDN became available in my location, i upgraded, but kept access to the cable connection.
some light surfers love the Hughes service. many think it's a rip. every time i investigated and asked around, i just heard such bad reports of both the ISP quality and customer service that i never went with it.
best of luck, and would love to hear what other rural people have done to get anything resembling broadband.
Re:DIRECPC, DIRECWAY, the FAP, and alternatives (Score:1)
Unfortunate corporate acronyms, part 28823... (Score:2)
Re:sure it isn't ethernet...? (Score:2)
look at the previous articles (Score:2, Informative)
There have been a few slashdot articles about satelite [google.com] internet access, mainly starband, which people are running Windows in a VM so they can use it from a linux [mystarband.net] machine. Although it appears one has to do some tuning [linux-sxs.org] with linux even if windows is sharing the connection.
i'm disgusted with it (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:4, Informative)
Windows 98SE is the first version of Windows to fully support USB. If you are running Windows 95, you probaly don't have USB-equipped hardware, and 95 is now a legacy product anyway.
As for your other issues, that's pure bunk. The Direcway service is basically using a proxy server to conserve enough limited (and very, very expensive) bandwidth between the satellite and ground station. If you want low-latency service, get DSL, not a service using a geosynchronous satellites.
Direcway does nothing to reduce LAN performance. Your poor performance is a result of using Windows ICS instead of a better solution. I just set the system up for my parents who live in the hilltowns near my city. All you need to do is setup a proxy server (like Webwasher) on the box for web access and use ICS for email and other services.
The result is excellent service over a 802.11b wireless network in the middle of nowhere. Web pages, streaming audio/video and other high latency tolerable applications work great.
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:1)
I would like to see this 3rd gateway device that Maller was talking about further down.
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:2)
It is what it is. If somebody was selling DirecWay as a T1 or DSL replacement, and I bought it, I'd be disgusted too.
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:2)
Do not look at uplink with remaining eye.
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:1)
Re:i'm disgusted with it (Score:1)
They do have this (Score:2, Informative)
The transmitter and receiver (model# ITU-R1 and IRU-T3, respectively) actually have the DirecPC logo on the front and either the word "transmitter" or "receiver." Both of these have an antenna connector and a data connector (DB-25 or so). In addition the transmitter has a USB port and an AT-keyboard-connector-looking power input. The third box (model# DW4-G1) is labeled "gateway" and has the DirecWay logo. The back has a USB port that is connected to the transmitter, a similar power input that is piggy-backed from the transmitter (looks kludgey), and four ethernet ports.
Functionally, this third box seems like those "cable/DSL routers" except you connect to the outside via USB instead of regular ethernet.
Re:This is all moot, isn't it? (Score:2, Informative)
You're thinking DirecTVDSL, their land-line based DSL service (they bought out Telocity a while back). DirecWay will still be around.
Travis
Is this how DirecWAY installers always are? (Score:3, Informative)
- He had trouble getting around Windows, just to run the company-provided software installer.
- He was unable to prove that he knew the difference between a USB connector and an RJ-45.
- He could not tell me whether or not I could purchase a device to hook up the sattelite directly to an ethernet network.
- He was unable to produce a copy of the license to which I was agreeing.
- When asked to hook up the rest of my computers, he told me that he was not allowed.
- Later, he told me that the satellite dish could only support one computer.
- He told me that I would have to buy a different satellite dish for each computer I wished to put on the DirecWAY service.
I may be slightly biassed, but DirecWAY seems to be a bit lacking in some areas. Is this anyone else's experience with DirecWAY installers?Re:Is this how DirecWAY installers always are? (Score:1, Interesting)
Just my $.02
AC
Re:Is this how DirecWAY installers always are? (Score:1)
"He could not tell me whether or not I could purchase a device to hook up the sattelite directly to an ethernet network."
we were told in class that you could either purchase a satellite "gateway" for business service, or it goes on windows and that's it.
"When asked to hook up the rest of my computers, he told me that he was not allowed."
we were told in class not to hook up other computers. it's a liability thing.
"Later, he told me that the satellite dish could only support one computer."
what a moron.
"He told me that I would have to buy a different satellite dish for each computer I wished to put on the DirecWAY service."
yet again, what a moron.
Re:Is this how DirecWAY installers always are? (Score:1)
You wouldn't expect a plumber to be able to work your computer, even if he installed those wacky Japanese toilets that probably hook up to it by now.
That being said, many satellite dish technicians are good with computers. The problem is, most of them end up in trouble for hacking the signals they're selling...
It's not worth it anyway (Score:1)
In my experience, the 800ms. to 2500 ms. latency resulted in a throughput that was occasionally, but not usually, much faster than a good modem connection, even out here in the boonies where 26.6Kbps is a rare blessing. I did days of testing and complaining over the entire 2 year period.
My gross throughput was generally about 7KBps - comparable to ISDN. There were peaks up to 150KBps, but also periods of 20 seconds with no data transfer at all. For file transfers the latency was not as much of a problem as it was for surfing.
Over the 2 years I had the two systems I spent a number of hours on the support line going through the motions of yet-again 'reinstall the software', and 'turn off the power, wait five minutes, then turn it on again', because the support people were generally gracious but rarely competent, and the system was troublesome, buggy and unreliable..
The Windows ICS barely worked at all. I did try one of the 3rd party firewall/proxy software packages which greatly improved performance, but never spent the $80 to buy it after the 30 day eval.
At one point I went almost two full months without service, because the support people were too incompetent to figure out the (simple, version related) problem. I went through three layers of telephone support on that one and threatened to sue them. I asked for but never received reimbursement for this loss of service.
A couple of months ago I dropped the service for both frustration and budgetary reasons, and in general I am more pleased with the performance of my dialup line. I see little reason to go back to either DPC or Direcway. In fact, I have two dishes available for sale, as I'm moving soon.
There's a paper online somewhere that demonstrates very aptly why latency is much more important than bandwidth in determining the performance of a connection. The writer points out that most modems have about 10X the latency that they should have. But it's still an order of magnitude better than DPC.
One more consideration. Direcway has established a "Fair Access Policy", for basically good reasons, however badly it's implemented. If you transfer more than a certain amount in a given hour (I think it's 60MB, but I forget), your connection will be dropped to about 2KB per second, for the next six hours or so. Some folks have written file transfer filters to keep you below the threshold.
The Direcway software drivers are at least as buggy and leaky of memory as MS' own P.O.S., so the PC has to be rebooted every couple of days.
For me, I'm hoping to move somewhere that gives me some other options. The local ISP has been testing a wireless repeater that they figure will be cost effective if they can get 20-50 people to sign up within a 2 mile radius of the repeater. The repeater can be connected via another wireless point-to-point channel with a line of sight of up to 15 miles - this is not Wi-Fi or 802.whatever, but commercial grade stuff that they use to connect businesses in the area with better than T1 speeds. So, if you are in the exurban fringe, there may be some alternatives to DPC. I wouldn't recommend DPC to anybody - except maybe if they live offgrid.
If you decide to get the service, Helius (http://www.helius.com) has a $2500 unix turnkey box that supposedly does this. They promised a $300 Linux software package 2 years ago and put me on the Beta list. Last time I talked to them I got the impression that the product was never going to happen. I don't recall why.
direcpc beta 1.1.2 claims to do what you want (Score:1)