For Those Who Wish to Join the Demo Scene? 56
Sean Cope asks: "I've used a computer for a number of years, now. I've never been interested in programming, but after seeing the link to the demo DVD, my interest is in full bloom. If you were interested in creating a demo, where would you start? What books would you buy? Keep in mind, I've only used a computer for communication, and games up until this point."
I used to do it (Score:5, Informative)
But these days it is very hard - watch some of the stuff by siggraph if you want to get depressed by the quality of stuff that is out there.
On the other hand, it is easy to do stuff that looks nice - even if you have to accept it has been done tons of times.
My favourite one that I did was when I tried to write a program that simulated how a brain works, with neurons etc. It produced some really wierd graphics.
In the old days you would have to write most of your routines in asm - although things like denther tutorials were a great help. However these days you don't need to know how to write the fastest putpixel routine. You can use opengl with sdl or whatever rocks your boat.
So inconclusion, learn a tiny bit about opengl, then start playing about. Try putting coloured squares randomly on the screen - this is quite a nice effect. Then fade it. Then texture the squares. Then make some opaque.
At really good one to do is the fire effect. Draw a row of pixels at the bottom of the screen in a random mix of red, orange and yellow, then on the row above that, for each pixel average the three pixels below it plus the three pixels that were in that position last frame ago. Draw the frame, then regenerate the bottom row randomly.
Play!
Re:I used to do it (Score:5, Informative)
A good way to get respect and help from others is to do a nice start up screen for one of the OS games. Take tuxracer and add some nice effects to the start up screen. After all, that is how the demo scene started. It lets you learn, be appreciated, and have your results last a lot longer than most demos.
Re:I used to do it (Score:2)
Now, all the concentration is away from the low-level coding and you get to lean on OpenGL to do all the dirty work. Must be nice!
Mindless reflexive ignorant suggestion: (Score:2, Interesting)
Understanding (Score:5, Informative)
First, you should try to understand how computers work. There are many great books on the subject, but I find older tutorials just as informative. For graphics I would recommend the PCGPE, at least the VGA tutorial.
You also need to learn to program. This is done on two levels, first you learn one language, but when you try your second you will see the similarities and thus learn programming, and apprechiate the languages as tools (at least that is the ideal case). I would start by using C or perhaps C++ as these are the most commonly used languages today (they are however not the easiest languages, and for example, pointers require a good understanding in how a computer works). I would recommend Steven Prata's book on C (I don't remember it's title, but try amazon). For C++, just try Bruce Eckels homepage, he has lots of free books on line (google for Bruce Eckel).
The you will probably need a library that removes all the fuzz from programming, such as hardware details (you still need to understand the hardware though!). I would recommend SDL (www.libsdl.org) for general game/demo programming. But also directfb, if you intend writing software for Linux only. For applications I would recommend Qt (www.trolltech.com), a great UI/portability toolkit, but I have to mention GTK+/GNOME too (to avoid being hit by flames from their fans).
A general tip is that knowledge pays. Read as much as you can, howtos, tutorials, books, articles, etc. and try to understand it. If you see how things work, you will soon become a great programmer. It helps if your attitude is "difficult you say? I like challenges!".
A final warning, programming can be concidered a drug. It easily eats much of your spare time!
Re:Understanding (Score:2)
It's called "C Primer Plus" - don't confuse it with his C++ book "C++ Primer Plus".
C Primer Plus is in it's fourth edition, and covers the latest C standard (C99), so make sure you get the latest/greatest.
I've just recently started this book, and thus far, it seems written very well, so I'd have to agree with this suggestion.
I've also seen books out there on physics for game programmers - this might come in quite handy for things just as simulating the look of gravity's effect on objects, etc., so look into that, too.
Re:Understanding (Score:3, Informative)
"I've also seen books out there on physics for game programmers - this might come in quite handy for things just as simulating the look of gravity's effect on objects, etc., so look into that, too."
I would like to point out that such tutorials and texts are easily found on the internet. Just google around a bit and you can get it for free (instead of buing expensive books).
Re:Understanding (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Understanding (Score:2)
It is also hard directing people not stating exactly what it is that they want to do... I think that there is a good collection of demomakers using SDL, thus I point in that direction.
The programming field is so wide that the best way to learn is to evolve, that is why I recommend any wannabies to *learn*, read everything, and be interested.
Re:Understanding (Score:2)
Re:Understanding (Score:2, Informative)
Then there are demo specific sites:
OJuice [ojuice.org]
Scene [scene.org]
CFWweb [cfxweb.net]
General game programming sites help aswell:
Flipcode [flipcode.com]
GameDev [gamedev.net]
GameTutorials [gametutorials.com]
The information about karman filters isnt what you should learn first. That type of information will come later, once you develop specific skills, different techniques will come to light.
Re:Understanding (Score:3, Informative)
My own favorite C/C++ book (Score:1)
Re:My own favorite C/C++ book (Score:2)
Re:Understanding (Score:1)
One bit of advice: start small! Even if your first project just puts one colored pixel to the screen, it's a start. In other words, the easiest way to get discouraged and quit is to straight-off try to build all of Rome in a single day.
You'll probably end up buying a LOT of computer books. This is natural, becuase you've got a huge body of knowledge to assimilate. Your best bet is to find a place that gives good reviews (e.g. www.accu.org), look at the list of recommended books, and then buy one or two from a place with good prices (I use bookpool.com a bunch, their prices are very low, service is good, and shipping is less than sales tax if i order a couple books at once).
I have a question, too... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I have a question, too... (Score:1)
Re:I have a question, too... (Score:3, Informative)
http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/musin
http://www.kohala.com/start/
http://www.tu
http://www.can
http://www.cryptonomicon.com/beginning.ht
http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/cacm.htm
http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/
http://cm.bell-
http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/
http://www.
I snarfed most of these from one of my web pages (http://www.rospa.ca/folklore/). If there's other great Unix culture documents out there, please send me the link
Re:I have a question, too... (Score:2)
Simple! Use Microsoft Outlook. All you need to do is add your target to your address book before reading your email. You're really leet if you hook it up to an Exchange server.
Mod this up +5 INSIGHTFUL (Score:1)
Just start making demos (Score:5, Informative)
The way to get into the scene is much the same as you get into any scene. Just do it.
1. Start making demos, simple demos, learning all the way. Do not expect to be top dog next month. Rather try to do a little better every time. Be critical. Add detail step by step. If you're a coder, empasise on that. If you're a designer, make graphics. Develop a neccessary skill.
2. Meet people. We've got the internet now, so publish your demos to a website. Most feedback you get will be negative. Don't be put off, but value all feedback to it's merits. Try to get more info. Try to get in contact with people that have skills you don't have. Cooperate.
3. Do not bitch. You do not have to help everybody, but behave normal. You will not have to be 733t. The less you piss people off, the easier you're going to get respect. Pissing off people sometimes seems the norm in the scene (or so it was one time. I suspect not much has changed). Don't be put off by it.
Hope this helps
self taught (Score:4, Informative)
Demo Effects Collection (Score:3, Informative)
The demo scene is not dead yet! :P (Score:2, Informative)
Its too bad you missed the ASM Party 2002 BTW. It was cool and I had almost no English speaking demo-lovers to chat with!
Also, the 'intro scene' was where the fun was BTW.
OpenGL for beginners... (Score:1)
Enjoy...
No offense, but don't bother (Score:2)
If you were the programmer type, it would've already struck you that you were during your years of computer use. Demos (I'm thinking of course of good old ASM demo writing) are the pinnacle of raw programmer talent display. Winning a demo competition is basically saying "I am a very unique, gifted, exceptional programmer who can kick other programmers' asses". The odds of a regular computer user with no previous programming experience managing to churn out an original demo, even with a library of related books on-hand, is slim.
This is not a fair opinion.. (Score:2)
Anyway -- writing stupid little assembly demos was how I began programming. The stuff I was doing had been done before (for the most part) and better, but I still enjoyed doing it. If his question is, "I want to get into the demo scene because I have some really sweet ideas and I think I could win some of those competitions," then you might be right. If it's, "Wow, demos are really cool and they have really excited me about programming and now I want to try," (which I think it is), then I think starting with Demos is a completely reasonable idea.
Re:This is not a fair opinion.. (Score:2)
I can see the angle you come from, but I'm of a different opinion on the matter. Good asm demos (original and mind-bendingly efficient code) are the pinnacle of coding. People who can pull off the kinds of tricks neccesary to do these things can pull off just about anything else in the programming world with a reference book and a little time. It's hard to say that of any other area. Algorithm Design, Concurrent Programming, Compiler-Writing, and many other "tough" areas of programming involve a lot of the same skills that the demo coder employs, surprisingly. Top demo writers are doing very heavy math in their code, often inventing custom algorithms, and writing what amounts to scripting languages that are efficiently encoded as bytestreams to play the demo. Concurrency is a little iffy, but even then I think some of the things a demo writer deals with on interrupt handling and DMA transfers come close enough to get you in the ballpark.
Sure there's lots of programming tasks that have nothing to do with demo writing - but very very few people have ever mastered the art of the asm demo (like fine works of art, incredible demos are rare). Those people are the "born to code" types who can accomplish just about anything else as well. Demos are the way they show off, in a way that even non-coders can appreciate (although sometimes only a coder can truly feel the amazement at what was accomplished).
And yes, I'll concede that writing "stupid little assembly demos" is where a lot of people start (hey I did too), but that's a whole different thing from writing really good ones, or really being a demo scene kinda guy. Just as programmers are a small elite pool of the general computer population, good-demo-level coders are a small elite pool of the general coder population. Therefore, I don't think your average computer user who isn't yet a programmer should really be aiming there, most likely if they were that kind of natural they'd already be coding something.
The Top Ten Things to Do to be in Demoscene (Score:5, Funny)
Second, you must be M3G4 31337 and learn to substitute numbers and punctuation symbols when typing words. Massive use of abbreviation helps.
Third, you must have large quantities of pizza and cola nearby at all times. Purchased, of course, with a credit card "borrowed" from an IRC buddy.
Fourth, you must have no life outside of the demoscene, lest you become unable to dedicate every waking late-night moment to the demo group.
Fifth, you have to wear imitation Matrix-style sunglasses and a long black overcoat. Intersperse conversation with constant quotes or references to the movie.
Sixth, you need to have visions of morphing faces and twisting landscapes and generally be pretty freaked out. Drugs can help, but if you're a true demoscene natural you've been born this way.
Seventh, you have to be able to accomplish in two lines of code what most programmers take 200 lines of code to do, provided that of course no one else but you can understand those two lines of code.
Eighth, you have to have friends with names like RandomOooze and TwistedNemesis. None of your friends have street addresses, and you've only seen them in person in dark chambers with hundreds of monitors in some non-descript European city.
Nineth, you have to have at least several IRC buddies in Finland, Norway, and Germany. Preferably at least one of them is currently wanted by Interpol.
Tenth, you have to constantly brag about impressive adventures with your girlfriend. She must be imaginary or reside somewhere far away, such as Canada.
If you can do these top ten things, you will truely be part of the demoscene!
Re:Sorry. (Score:1)
Becoming a democoder (Score:3, Insightful)
The first thing you'll need to to is learn a programming language and get familiar with it's development tools on your platform of choice, be it Linux, Windows or MacOS. You don't need to master the language as demos do not always need the most advanced features that some languages offer (such as multiple inheritance, etc). At first, writing 'hello world' -programs and such may be quite boring and frustrating but have patience - eventually you'll see that the skills you've learned will prove useful. A final word regarding the language; In the old days all demos were written in pure assembly language but these days C++ is the one most coders use and would be smart choice to learn. A good book on C++ is a way to get started.
Once you're comfortable with the language and it's tools, the next step is to learn more about your computer works. You'll need to know how to control the hardware; graphics card, sound card, timers and such. In modern operating systems this means studying the application programming interfaces (APIs) that the operating system provides. Fortunately, there are plenty of good tutorials that teach how to, for example, display graphics using OpenGL or DirectX. There are also many good libraries (Bass, FMOD, etc) for playing different audio files and you'll find them to be quite useful when adding music to your demo productions. Most people use their own timing system but there are some timeline editors such as Demopaja which may ease the work.
Now that you know the language and how to control your computer, you'll need to know how to code effects. Learning the math behind 3D graphics is quite useful, as is knowing how to manipulate bitmaps with convolution matrices and filters. Don't be afraid of math - it's a very useful tool and a key to understanding how effects really work. The internet is full of information on how to code different effects and functional examples to experiment with. Watch a lot of demos and try to figure out what effects they use and how they are are made. Read magazines, look at pictures in them and try to imagine how they would look animated. Look around when walking in a city or in nature - think of ways how to model things in the real world. Experiment with your code - quite many effects have been found by accident when experimenting. Chat with other demosceners on the net, maybe even meet them in real life at parties. Friendship is an important part of demoscene and discussing ideas with other people will often spring new ones. Code alone doesn't make a demo and you'll need find friends who can make music, paint pictures or create 3d models.
Don't feel overwhelmed by everything that you need to learn and do. If you can find the right frame of mind, you'll endure through the tedious basics of programming - see it as a challenge. After a lot of work, seeing your own effect work is a very gratifying experience. Once you know the basics, the possibilities are endless. Above all, the most important thing is to have fun.
Some links:
NeHe's OpenGL tutorials [gamedev.net]
Andy Pike's DX8 tutorials [andypike.com]
Bass [un4seen.com]
FMOD [fmod.org]
M0ppi Demopaja [inside.org]
It's sad to see (Score:1, Funny)
When I was young people were writing their own libraries and did rotation cubes 'n' donuts on a 8 MHz system in 20 raster lines. Of course you are too gay these days to even know what raster lines mean.
OpenGL.
Why not OpenGay or DirectGoatse ?
But perhaps all creative people are writing backdoor and such shit these days instead of demos.
Re:It's sad to see (Score:1)
Re:It's sad to see (Score:1)
Re:It's sad to see (Score:1)
Re:It's sad to see (Score:1)
But hey, despite the fact that the "mainstream" is coding PC demos these days, the oldskool is still here even if it's not so visible anymore. Just look at Alternative Party [altparty.org], for example.
This poses an interesting question... (Score:2)
" I for the possibility of year now used the computer. I that RAM of pro assuredly inside drawing up, not pulling an interest, but after seeing a connection in demo Dvd from, my matter of concern and interest is inside the flower which is sufficient. Inside when you create the demo, interest it is, you it starts to where to do, it did to sleep? It spreads out book, it lives theyn the place? ci Height ten:00 bedspreads, me for a delivery the computer which only it uses, and it is a smallness until crab it comforts inside mind. "
Re:This poses an interesting question... (Score:2)
Re:This poses an interesting question... (Score:2)
I have to admit, I just coudn't belive it: I had to run it through babelfish myself.
Twice.
Curiously enough, it alternates between two different translations...the second version is pretty good, too:
I for the possibility of year now used the computer. I program assuredly inside drawing up, not pulling an interest, but after seeing a connection in demo Dvd from, my matter of concern and interest is inside the flower which is sufficient. Inside when you create the demo, interest it was, you under it starts the man with underdeveloped genital organ it did to where? It spreads out book, it lives theyn the place? ci Height ten:00 bedspreads, me for a delivery only the computer, and comfort used a smallness until game inside mind.
call me stupid... (Score:1)
Re:It was already asked, but I'll ask it again (Score:1, Informative)
A demo is a program which usually displays stunning animated graphics, 3D or 2D.
The demos were usually written in highly optimized assembly language, and showed very good graphics.
A few years ago, there were a lot of people who wrote demos, and competed with each other.
The object was something like: write a very spectacular demo, push the hardware to it's limits, etc.
Sorry, I had to say it ;-) (Score:2)