Cars for Tinkerers? 81
Lots of interesting things on the automotive front. First off, jotap starts us off with this question: "The 'smart' with its auto/semi-auto sequential gearbox, traction control, electronic managed turbo engine, electronic accelerator and clutch control, G force sensors, and more. Some companies sell chips to upgrade the engine power and change the (slow) original gear shifting timings. It would be nice to have a custom control panel on board and change the settings with a click. I think there's no other car with a better price/technology/size ratio then the 'smart', or is there?" The more modifiable they are, the better!
While we are on the subject, let me relate some of the other interesting car news that happened to be lying in the bin. io333 notes: "These direct quotes from this CNN article are self explanatory:
There are two versions and they really don't cost very much. Unfortunately my car is one of the few listed that this won't work with, but I thought some of you might find it useful." ThatTallGuy sent in the Business 2.0 version of the story, which you can read here.'Since 1996, all new cars sold in the United States have been required to have an emissions-control system called OBD-II...'
'...One company, Davis Instruments, has a new device that probes and records what our OBD systems see, and is trying to find a broad market for it....'
'...Called the CarChip, the product is a small recording plug (about the size of a 9-volt battery) that you attach to your car's OBD-II port, which is usually hidden under the dash but easily reachable from the driver's seat. Once installed, the plug records and time-stamps a selection of OBD data (speed, braking events, coolant temperature, and several other, more technical data points) every five seconds. When you remove the CarChip and plug it into your PC, you can download the information and see graphs of what your car's been doing.'
You may not know it, but there's an interesting relationship between VisiCalc and cars! index72 explains: "Ever wonder what happened to Bob Frankston, the inventor of VisiCalc? Ever the computer pioneer, he proposes the creation of a generic programming interface for automobile data displays."
So it sounds like car enthusiasts and tinkerers might be in for some interesting times in the upcoming months. If you guys do manage to come up with something cool, please do share some pictures?
Open standards in car electronics ? (Score:3, Interesting)
David.
Re:Open standards in car electronics ? (Score:1)
Re:Open standards in car electronics ? (Score:3, Informative)
Incidentally, OBDIII is something to fear. They've proposed things like remote-kill capability. I don't trust cops that much...
Re:Open standards in car electronics ? (Score:2)
Nope. (Score:2)
What you do is connect the tester to the diagnostics pin of the ECU, turn on the ignition, press the button for three seconds then let it blink out the fault codes on the ECU. For example, on my old Citroen, for the suspension ECU, connect up, press button and "1 2" - start fault codes, press again "2 4" - suspension control valve continuity, press again "1 1" - no more stored codes. Press and hold button for 15 seconds to clear. The codes are readily available from garages.
Newer, "multiplexed" electrickery is much more difficult.
Re:Nope. (Score:2)
Re:Nope. (Score:2)
What about VW / Audi? (Score:2)
Modifiers Cars (Score:3, Funny)
Urgh! (Score:3, Funny)
Daniel
Re:Urgh! (This reply is OT) (Score:2)
Re:Urgh! (This reply is OT) (Score:1)
Honda's Element grew from the same intent as Pontiac, but they had enough money and sense to finish the tail end and install rubber floor-mats. Because Honda builds appliances, they succeeded where Pontiac didn't.
Just jokin around
Re:Urgh! (This reply is OT) (Score:2)
I had the same thought about the Honda CRX, about 10 years ago.. or, I figured the designers took the blueprints to management, management said "hmm, it won't fit in our manufacturing bays!" so the designers said "No problem", and tore off the rear 1/4 of the blueprint.
In any case, the first time I saw an Aztek, I thought - "Ahh, so that's what a CRX looks like when it grows up!" (Which also explains why you never see CRXs on the road anymore
The Ultimate Car For Tinkerers (Score:4, Informative)
The Classic version is the car driven by Patrick McGoohan in the opening sequence of the TV series "The Prisoner"
In production for 40 years and kicking every day.
http://www.caterham.co.uk/news/index.htm
Re:The Ultimate Car For Tinkerers (Score:3, Interesting)
Another neat car is the Westfield XTR [xtr2.net] 180BHP and 440Kg for 0.41hp/kg. The Le Man prototype looks are very nice. Though it probably isnt as practical as the Caterham. (which isnt very practical in itself).
Course, none of these cars have anything on motorbikes, even a piddly little 250cc can beat the above cars for power/weight with a small amount of tuning. And the 1 litre bikes blow them away completely, eg Yamaha R1 150hp/177kg = 0.85 hp/kg! 0-120mph+ in 10s or less.
you beat me too it..I was going to mention the (Score:2)
Re:The Ultimate Car For Tinkerers (Score:3, Interesting)
Another ultimate tinkerer's vehicle is the Landrover. It's just a big Meccano set.
Oh, and let's not forget the venerable Volvo 340 [gjcp.net] (shown here inspecting the runway of a small airfield in the north of Scotland, hence the orange beacon) which is almost as easy to take to bits entirely. 0-100mph in about 30 seconds, though. Tops out at 115 mph, of which 3 miles will be used getting up to speed and the rest will be absolutely terrifying.
I suspect they're looking for technology-laden cars though. In which case, if you want something cheap, fun, and very cool, get yourself a Citroen XM [gjcp.net]. Mine was a fairly basic-spec one, with no aircon or ABS, but still managed to have about 6 ECUs dotted about (three in a big "avionics bay" under the bonnet. Lovely, comfortable, smooth ride thanks to its hydraulic suspension, which stiffens up when you drive fast or go round sharp corners. For a good example, watch the film "Ronin" - in the car chase, look at how the Audi A8 fishtails and slides everywhere, and the XM only slides on loose gravel. And then, only a little bit...
Landrover (Score:1)
Fantastic car to tinker with, in fact it's pretty much mandatory!
If it goes a few months without something strange happening with it then you've not looked at it properly!
I had (and probably still do) a fantastic problem with my series III, the indicators stop working when you pull out the choke!
That sounds fairly sensible until you realise that the choke on mine is not connected to anything electronic, at all! It's not even mounted near anything electronic.
I remember when I'd driven to a local beauty spot, lovely view, about a 600ft hill, with a road running almost the whole drop pretty steeply. I parked, went for a walk. When I came back and turned the key to start there was just a whirring, nothing else. So thought I, just bump start it - no problem, sounds like the starter motor isn't engaging. Now it was a little strange that trying to bump start down this very steep road that when I lifted the clutch, one of the back wheels went backwards, and made skidding noises... and this was with FAT tires too...
Eventually I got a tow home, and when I got there I removed the starter motor housing and the bendix fell out... in half!
Gotta love a repair job like that which takes 5 minutes flat!
Oh, and you'll need a whole new tool kit, Series landrovers use AF spanners, a "standard" all but forgotten...
That and they do 0-60 in about a week, although mine once got over 80... lost my hearing for about an hour, but it got there...
So much fun, I need to get some welding done on it to play again!
Re:The Ultimate Car For Tinkerers (Score:1)
For all the gory detail, see The Lotus 7 Club Technical Forum [blatchat.com] and, the ultimate for
The thing that makes a Caterham so much better than a motorbike (it made me switch over) is the handling. I've been on-road in the Seven with motorbikes and on-track in the Seven with Ferraris, and the Caterham can go round the corners *much* faster than either. Many Ferrari owners who have witnessed this have later gone on to buy Sevens...
It's the only car I know of which is possible to buy with a built-in lap-timer as an option. It is, basically, a race car which has been made road-legal. Just.
Not Any Time Soon (Score:4, Interesting)
Cars have had radios (of some sort) standard for a VERY long time; and they were an option for a while before that. Yet there is no standard stereo. There is a standard SIZE (I think) but I can't just pull mine out and slide a new one in. To start, I have no idea how to get to my stereo. I'd have to take off my dash (I assume) and get to a ton of screws. (I have a 2k Honda Oddessey). I found this out while trying to find out how to plug something into my car stereo. I wanted to plug in my iPod through a standard dual RCA stereo cable, but I can't do that without buying an aftermarket stereo. And if I did that, chances are the volume thing on my steering wheel wouldn't work.
It seems to me that untill I can just swapout the stereo on my car like swapping the harddrive on my laptop (just one screw), wanting to have any controll over the chips in your car easily is a LOT to ask.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:5, Informative)
Is there a standard hard drive?
There is a standard SIZE (I think) but I can't just pull mine out and slide a new one in.
Yes, there is a standard DIN chassis size, and your car is a fucking moving vehicle that can at times reach speeds of 100 mph. Do you want your radio to just 'slide in and out', possibly decapitating you or smashing your chest in when you get into a headon wreck at 140mph combined speed? Cars are built a little bit more robustly than computers, and yes, screws and bolts are always needed.
I'd have to take off my dash (I assume) and get to a ton of screws. (I have a 2k Honda Oddessey).
You're perfectly right. Of course, swapping a stereo isn't supposed to be a ten-minute pull swap. It shouldn't take more than a half hour to completely take off all parts needed, and if it takes one longer than that, they shouldn't be trying to install their car stereo.
I found this out while trying to find out how to plug something into my car stereo. I wanted to plug in my iPod through a standard dual RCA stereo cable, but I can't do that without buying an aftermarket stereo.
Yeah, and I want a Firewire port for my ECU - but 99 percent of other car driver's don't. (well, maybe more people want it with my car than with average joe car)
wanting to have any controll over the chips in your car easily is a LOT to ask.
It's not a safety thing. It's an auto shop conspiracy thing. You think the car dealers WANT tuners to be able to plug in a serial cable and reprogram their fuel maps? Hell no!
A company like reprograms ECU's for turbo usage, adjusted fuel maps, improved injector capacity, etc. You'd be shocked at how crippled Japanese imports are compared to domestics.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
Jim Wolf Technology [jimwolftechnology.com]
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, there is. There isn't a standard capacity, but the interface is standard (IDE) and the form factor is too (3.5" drive slot)
You're perfectly right. Of course, swapping a stereo isn't supposed to be a ten-minute pull swap. It shouldn't take more than a half hour to completely take off all parts needed, and if it takes one longer than that, they shouldn't be trying to install their car stereo.
I agree that it shouldn't take 30 seconds. But I should be able to do it easily. It should at least say how to do it in the owners manual. As far as I can tell, instructions aren't published anywhere.
Yeah, and I want a Firewire port for my ECU - but 99 percent of other car driver's don't. (well, maybe more people want it with my car than with average joe car)
I think alot of people would like the ability to simply plug something into their car stereo using a standard earphone jack. I'm just saying that there should be standards for how you extend a stereo (the tape/cd changer/minidisc drive interface).
It's not a safety thing. It's an auto shop conspiracy thing. You think the car dealers WANT tuners to be able to plug in a serial cable and reprogram their fuel maps? Hell no!
Must everything be a conspiracy?
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:1)
Really? Explain the full-height 5.25" SCSI drive in my server, the 20mb half-height 5.25" ESDI drive in my old IBM XT, the 9mm thick 2.5" laptop drive in my Thinkpad, the 3.5" 1 gig SCSI drive in my Powermac, and the 1.8" drive in my friend's iPod.
'Oh, sure, but 80 percent of computers are built to take 3.5" drives', you say. Well, I'll wager that 80 percent of cars take a standard DIN stereo mount.
I think alot of people would like the ability to simply plug something into their car stereo using a standard earphone jack. I'm just saying that there should be standards for how you extend a stereo (the tape/cd changer/minidisc drive interface).
My mom doesn't want a line-in. My brother doesn't want a line-in. I do. And I have it, on my $200 Pioneer deck.
Anybody who's geeky/hackerly enough to want to pipe external audio through their car system is going to probably get an aftermarket deck, roughly half of which have RCA ins.
Must everything be a conspiracy?
Your sig makes this one all the more ironic.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:1)
Or you could get a lot fo the same information with a subscription to AllDataDIY [alldatadiy.com]. It depends on whether you want a book in the garage or just read about it on the computer and print out what you need.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
But you mentioned your difficulty finding instructions, in any case. I've not worked on a Honda, which might even be a bit easier given its DIN-sized dash opening, but things seem to look about like this across the board:
In my car (1996 Chevy Beretta), stereo installation is a snap.
1) Remove the trim ring that surrounds the stereo and heater controls. It slips off with gentle prying from a screwdriver, or even a butter knife.
2) Remove the four small bolts holding the stereo to the dashboard.
3) Slide out factory Delco stereo; disconnect wiring harness and antenna.
Done.
Now, for the installation:
GM, and most other car companies, keep the same stereo wiring harness, unchanged, for years, and try keep it the same across their entire range of vehicles. Which is to say that it's -at least- as standard as many things computer; witness the CompactFlash/Smartmedia/SD/MMC/XD/Memory Stick or DVD-R/+R/-RW/+RW/-RAM debacles. Many companies make kits to make the wiring a breeze.
But for whatever reason, they (and Chrysler) use a differently-sized opening than everyone else. No big thing, really - I'm familiar enough with 3.5-5.25" adapter trays for HDD installation, and 2.5" adapters for laptop drives. Many companies make kits to make this adaptation a breeze.
So. Here's the drill:
1) Procure a stereo, appropriate mounting kit, and a wiring harness. These will be available locally, and are generally no big deal to find.
2) Wire the harness to the stereo. Last time I did this, the colors of the Metra harness matched my Blaupunkt stereo, and it only took a few minutes - seems fairly standard to me. In any event, the wires are clearly marked, and you just connect together the ones which match.
3) Insert the (DIN standard) metal sleeve included with the Blau stereo into the (DIN standard) mounting kit, and bend the appropriate tabs back to hold it in place. These are motions you should've learned as a toddler, while putting together figures cut from the back of cereal boxes.
4) Insert kit, sleeve attached, into dash opening. Bolt down kit using the same screws, in the same locations, as previously held in the factory radio.
5) Plug wiring harness and antenna into new stereo.
6) Slide stereo into sleeve. It will click into place once properly seated.
7) Turn key to accessory position and listen to some music.
It's all pretty self-explanatory when you've got the parts in front of you. And if you order your wares from a place like Crutchfield, they send along detailed instructions, written in English, which include lots of pretty pictures. But if this still seems too complicated, perhaps you really shouldn't be doing it yourself and should invest in the services of your local shop, where there are (gasp!) people employed specifically to do this sort of work.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
your car is a fucking moving vehicle that can at times reach speeds of 100 mph. Do you want your radio to just 'slide in and out', possibly decapitating you or smashing your chest in when you get into a headon wreck at 140mph combined speed? Cars are built a little bit more robustly than computers, and yes, screws and bolts are always needed
I know several people who have replaced their car radio with a slide out model. They can remove their entire radio in under 10 seconds. Theft protection is why they do it. They have no problems with it sliding out without their intervention, and there is no hint that in an accident these radios cause extra problems.
Unfortunatly there is no standard for slide outs, but your point that radios chouldn't slide out in seconds for safety reasons have been proven wrong.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
Hm. Interesting.
but your point that radios chouldn't slide out in seconds for safety reasons have been proven wrong.
No, my point stands. The fact that some people will sacrifice secure mounting for convenience doesn't invalidate the point that it could come loose and smack you in the head.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
I'm not sure what the catch/latch is, but they can deactiate it and slide the radio out in 10 seconds. There is no safety problem, they don't come out on their own, yet are easially removeable in seconds when someone wants to remove them.
Decapitation (Score:1)
Will it make any difference at that speed?
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
take for instance my cirrus lxi, it took me 30 seconds with my drivers liscence to get access to the screws that hold my radio in. no joke. if you own one, the cheap plastic molding around the stereo uses metal clips that can undone easily with a device that has a consistancy of a credit card or drivers liscence.
you can get receivers for cars, however they dont seem common place at all anymore. why? who knows..
if you only have one screw holding your hard drive in then i wouldnt want you tinkering with a car either.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
YMMV, but it does look to me like more and more new cars (European and Japanese, at least) have the radio integrated into the dashboard. With remote displays (radio mounted low, but a display on top of the dash, maybe combined with heater control info or navigation system), and remote control (steering wheel buttons), radios are getting less and less standard.
Re:Not Any Time Soon (Score:2)
Unfortunately, they don't work in all car stereos. They don't work in the stereo on my Clio for example - maybe the audio read head is in a slightly odd position.
I'm now considering pulling out the radio and trying to find a wire internally that carries the line-level audio signal, and then connecting this to a jack socket on the front panel. But on a one-year old car, I'm a tiny bit hesitant...
As for removing the stereo, may car stereos have 4 small holes in the front panel, two either side. A U-shaped tool inserts into the holes and releases the radio.
Re:Very cool link (Score:1, Funny)
I've seen this before... (Score:1)
Remember? (Score:4, Interesting)
One senior official from GM replied that this would be true, but also mentioned that
(a) you would need to upgrade your car every year to continue using the roads
(b) depending on which brand of car you have, you would be limited to certain roads
(c) you car would crash once a day (we're talking windows)
Anyway, back on topic, this got me thinking - the automotive industry is heading down the software path and there are some potential pitfalls they'd want to watch out for.
DON'T let them use Windows CE or WinXP embedded edition. NEVER. I don't want my car to have a software crash, causing the fuel injection, braking, etc to fail. I also don't want my car to have exploits so that any cracker could pop the hood while I'm shopping and 'fine-tune' my car's settings.
Also, just like BIOS tweaking, some things can be taken too far. "Dude, if turn down the brack coolant valve, I can get more petrol throughput and go faster
They are gonna need to do a huge amount of QA here. (I wonder who would legally be at fault if the car's software fucked up? the vendor or the car's maker?) This may well be a great opportunity for knowledge-based computing and expert systems to demonstrate their value.
Re:Remember? (Score:3, Funny)
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart,in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car unless you bought "CarNT," but then you would have to buy more seats.
6. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but it would only run on five percent of the roads.
7. The oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "general protection fault" warning light.
8. New seats would force everyone to have the same sized butt.
9. The airbag system would ask "are you sure?" before deploying.
10. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, you car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of Rand McNally road maps (now a GM subsidiary), even though they neither need nor want them. Attempting to delete this option would immediately cause the cars performance to diminish by 50 percent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You'd have to press the "start" button to turn the engine off.
Re:Remember? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Remember? (Score:1)
Re:Remember? (Score:2)
Not everyhting. The UI is one of the biggest horrors of iDrive (with previously-simple operations requiring you to navigate three levels of menus, that sort of crap), and no sign of it being fixed.
How about my '66 Mustang? (Score:2, Insightful)
Tinker away with aftermarket parts if you dare (Score:1)
Parts departments love tinkerers who screw things up and then try to fix it themselves. Some serious jack can be made from one know-it-all who keeps messing up one thing after another because his aftermarket chip or part started a chain reaction. It just means a little more money in the gross profit (and for employees a little more money in their pockets each month to pay the bills).
If you really have to tinker...don't buy aftermarket performance parts; buy the manufacturers performance parts. You are assured of quality and a warranty on the part. Plus, some struggling dealership parts clerk will get to pay his/her heat bill this winter.
Re:Tinker away with aftermarket parts if you dare (Score:2, Interesting)
We often marked things like simple adjustment screws with a clear nail varnish to differentiate between the problem vehicles and the problem owners. If the varnish is broken and your car is 'still playing up, since you lot obviously didn't fix anything' we will be charging you for our time.
Re:Tinker away with aftermarket parts if you dare (Score:1)
It depends on the car manufacturer and dealer. The local Audi dealership here in Thousand Oaks, CA (USA) don't mind if you swap out the muffler, change the intake, chip the engine, change the suspension, etc. Parts not affected by the change will still be covered by the warrenty.
Shlybluz is right though. You don't want your car adjusted by somebody who doesn't know what they are doing. Most manufacturer seem to have a performance division.... Toyota - TRD. Mazda - Mazdaspeed. Honda - Mugen. Nissan - Nismo. Ford - SVT. Buy from the manufacturer. Usually the parts are well thought out and usable as a daily driver.
To answer what cars seem tinkerable. I was thinking of getting an Audi A4 1.8t and found Audi World [audiworld.com] to be good resource. (but I've ordered the Mazda RX-8 instead. Doesn't look very tinkerable but we'll see what Mazdaspeed comes up with)
Something /. always forgets... (Score:3, Insightful)
Apart from it's tinkerability the nice thing about the Smart is it's fuelconsumption and innovative approach on individual transport: less is more.
As usual though, this is probaly read by some idiot who thinks his personal freedom and personality are expressed by a huge V 12 sportscar/SUV in his garage.
sigh
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:2)
Before you ask, no, I don't tow anything, I don't carry a lot of passengers, I have no kids, and I don't have excessive cargo. You know what? I can afford such a vehicle, and it's my choice to pay the price at the pumps! I could have bought some three cylinder Geo, but personally, it's my personal freedom which allows me to buy the vehicle I think is fun to drive.
So, maybe you'd think that we'd all be more free if the government tells us what we can and can not drive, or if you think you should dictate my life based on your preferences, but personally, I don't care. There are things out there that pollute much more than my SUV, and I don't just mean cars. So, yeah, I guess you could say I am 'aiding the terrorists' in your mind. Personally, I'd rather be considered doing that than removing freedoms of those wishing to drive whatever the hell they want to.
By the way, not that I care what you think of me, but just to clear it up, I bought it because of the four wheel drive and traction control capabilities. The winters are bad here south of Buffalo (near Lake Erie), and I've had nothing that maneuvers better in the snow.
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not about me or your government telling you what to drive, it's just that the age of enlightenment obviously passed by you and your kind.
Personal freedom does not mean you're not allowed to make rational choices.
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:1)
man, if I had points, I'd mod you up to infinity!!
I'm so sick of these "you must only drive the vehicle we deem environmentally correct and then only when absolutely necessary" idiots!!!
FWIW I own both an SUV and an old Toyota 4x4 pickup modded for offroading. I have no apologies for either. I drive them cause I like trucks. No other reason.
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:2)
If you want the government not to influence what you drive, you should get them to drop CAFE, or make cars and light trucks fall under the same CAFE requirement.
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:1)
That's exactly why I got a MINI. Handles better than an SUV (even in snow and ice), more space-efficient than an SUV, more fuel-efficient than an SUV, and can haul everything I need to haul.
Plus, it gets me cute boys' phone numbers. (Let's see an SUV do that.)
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:2)
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:1)
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:2)
Read into it whatever you want, but it's really as simple as that. It's FUN. Period.
Re:Something /. always forgets... (Score:2)
Indeed. American consumers funnel billions of completely unnecessary dollars to the Middle East every year, yet think Old Glory on a bumper sticker makes them patriots.
About the most patriotic thing any American can do right now is buy a small European or Japanese car, and use it only when the journey's too far to walk or cycle.
I'd rather know ... (Score:3, Interesting)
As long as the car still meets the minimum performance specs for the way I drive, of course.
Of course, a totally modular car would be neat, too. I had a vision of something hybrid based, not the current types of parallel (electric motor boosting a gas engine) hybrid but one that's a series hybrid with swappable components. Say, a generator (using diesel currently, upgradeable as technology progresses) hooked to a temporary energy storage device (your choice of lead-acid, ultracapacitors, gyroscopic battery, or whatever) then to some electrical motors (variable number, say minimum 1 for a RWD vehicle, up to multiple per tire if you're really nutzo and want lots of horses).
Is that too much to ask? Huuuh?
And can't you see the spec discussions?
"I've got a 1 terawatt storage system!"
"Yeah, you don't have enough drive motors to burn that energy, though"
"Well, my next upgrade
etc etc
Re:I'd rather know ... (Score:2)
Because driving 120mph around a curve is a fuck of a lot more fun than being able to drive from NY to LA and back on two tanks of gas.
Re:I'd rather know ... (Score:1)
I ride the bike places when I want to arrive smiling, and I drive the car when I want to get there warm and dry.
I know that if I wanted to be as fuel-efficient as possible I could replace the bike with a tiny moped-like thing, but what I have now is more fun than a big-ass car, and more fuel-efficient than a tiny econobox, so I figure it's a win-win solution.
Re:I'd rather know ... (Score:1)
If you read up on basic hotrodding techniques, you will find that many of them are geared towards gaining power by increasing efficiency.
For example, by reducing frictional losses, you "lose" less power in the engine (and waste less fuel, to look at it another way). By streamlining the airflow (which is often pretty messy, because it would cost more to manufacturing nicely smoothed passages), you increase efficiency. Done properly, this can result in both increased fuel efficiency and small gains in power.
SAE (Score:2)
The communications are usually done using an SAE standard (don't know the number).
As for why you aren't allowed to tinker? SAFETY! Modern cars with faulty electronics are hazardous not only to the driver, but all that happen to be in the vicinity of such a vehicle.
'smart' tuning possibilities (Score:1)
Also the more power one can get with a chip tuning comes with a high price. The guarantee is gone most of the times and the motor is more likely to blow up. This is a 599cm three cylinder motor after all which has 45/55hp originally and up to 80hp and more with chip tuning.
Yes, I do own one of those fuel powered roller-skates myself
Monitoring is easy, tuning is difficult (Score:5, Informative)
Some carmakers have gone to the extreme to make it difficult to change the ECU maps- Ford's (now obsolete) EEC-IV used a special version of the Intel 8051 (the 8061) and EEPROM that Intel (and their 2nd sources) were *only* authorized to sell to Ford. There were some modifications that could be done to improve performance, but those were a kludge that used a diagnostic port. [I worked as a co-op for Ford in the late 80's]
If you really do want to tinker with your car's engine, look to cars with engines that have been around a very long time- such as the Chevy 350, people have been tuning and playing with the 350 for decades, even as it has gone from carbs to EFI. There is a huge installed base and tinkerers are everywhere.
How About Older Vehicles? (Score:1)
Tinkering with car electronics... (Score:1)
This guy has a PC in his car with data acquisition software/hardware [ashleypowers.com] that allows him to gather engine stats in his 300ZX. He can keep records of 1/4 mile runs to see air/fuel ratios, rpms, shift timing, etc, and even adjust them in real time. I guess newer cars with all their sensors and electronics can allow for some pretty cool hacks like this.
Re:Tinkering with car electronics... (Score:1)
Fully Programmable ECUs (Score:1)
Plus there are plenty of other "hard" ways you can "mod" your car (cams, exhaust, sway bars, shocks etc, depending on what you need to improve).
Hondata (Score:2, Informative)
dashpc linux anyone? (Score:3, Interesting)
We currently have GPS capability, Kismet, ODBII interfacing, audio, etc.
We can always use help, so anyone truly interested in this and programming skills (java preferred) feel free to help out.
Real Car Hackers do it this way: (Score:2, Informative)
You don't need a brand-new high-tech car to do this stuff. I race a 30yr-old Porsche 914 in SCCA solo events. I also drive it to work on a daily basis. Converting to the digital ECU (from a dying 30yr-old analog system) I picked up about 10hp (before/after dynomometer runs) AND an additional 7mpg! See, you CAN have your cake and eat it too.
Most programable ECU's have RS232 input/output so you can do all kinds of cool stuff with them - EASILY! Do a google search for PerfectPower, Autronic, SDS, Wolf 3D, Megasquirt, Haltec, Motec, Hawk EC21...