Building a Local Cellular Phone Carrier? 57
Netsuj asks: "I'm doing some work for a firm which operates in B.F.E. Many miles before even arriving, I loose signal on my GSM phone. What is the feasibility of creating a limited-area wireless telephone network? As it is outside the area of repeater technology (I believe), is there such thing as a simple cellular-to-wireline system? What are the possibilities of this operating on a break-even basis for employees (i.e. charging minimal roaming fees)? Any ideas? Sadly, something like this appears to be the only option; contacting any of the mobile network operators in the larger area resulted in absolutely no interest in expanding their coverage." Unfortunately, along with the technical problems, there is also paperwork. What kind of permits and other red-tape-hurdles would be necessary to satisfy all of the lawyer-types?
Holy shit. (Score:5, Funny)
Where the fuck do I even begin? Good christ man.
1. Obtain license from FCC. Maybe you'll get luck and you can bid on a PCS license, something minor, like an F block. That's the cheap part. Depending on the area, you might get by with only paying a few hundred thousand. Or you might be a black jew from Greenland. Figure on spending a few million on this.
2. then hire a bunch of squirly fucks to do all sort of gypsy analysis on the area. with that license, it's use it or Lose is, hizzo. That includes all sorts of wacky fucking shit like topographic analysis and god knows what else.
3. So you'll need to put up a shitload of antenna sites to cover the mandated number of people. each site is pretty cheap at about $500,000. It might only take a a dozen or so, depending on where you buy your license.
4. Don't forget to hire a law firm to handle all the FCC related bullshit. I bet they're only a couple ten thousand a year.
I'm not fucking joking about this shit. It's next to fucking impossible to do, unless you're stonecold serious. And if you're asking slashdot, I highly doubt you are.
Get a satellite phone, or landline.
Maybe ditch the GSM phone? Analog works just about everywhere. A back phone is about $80 on eBay. Or you can do it the hard way.
Re:Holy shit. (Score:1)
Re:Holy shit. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Move... (Score:2)
Bullshit.
There are places in Europe where your GSM coverage WILL NOT reach. I garuntee it.
VZW has CDMA coverage for nearly all the US. GSM coverage in the US is mediocre at best because GSM never took off here. When US carriers were evaluating which digital system to deploy, CDMA had already been introduced. And CDMA is a better technology - some studies have shown that CDMA can handle twice as much bandwidth per same sized channel as GSM and other TDMA technologies. If you don't believe me, just look at the current race to deploy CDMA in Europe.
The original poster's problem would be solved by switching to Verizon.
Your comment is nothing more than a troll. It's also false.
Cheers,
Brian
Acronyms (Offtopic, sue me) (Score:1)
[Really offtopic] If the post submission bit doesn't allow this, that should be fixed. And it is high time that slashcode output *some* kind of HTML.
Re:Acronyms (Offtopic, sue me) (Score:1)
Re:Acronyms (Offtopic, sue me) (Score:1)
So, how do the InternetPhone-co's do it? (Score:1)
If it's any easier to do it like they do, ie,
to interface phone & Internet services)...
so try it like that.
On the other hand, remember that - for NON-
commercial applications - the hams have had
autopatch service (interfacing, say, a 146 MHz
repeater to POTS, so that any [authorised]
amateur, who could acccess the repeater
can also make [in that case, local] calls,
that they dial themselves, using DTMF-pads
in the microphones of their 2-way, radios,
presently using narrow FM modulated voice).
Commercial trunked systems have telephone
interconnects, which seem like the same
thing, except each radio can be identi-
fied by the system, so it's easier to
allocate call-costs to user(s).
Oh, the [more or less open (sometimes
you have to join a radio club to access)
amateur radio autopatch systems usually
limit calls to local and/or emergency
tel.no's... still -free- in USA...?
A portion of the Club membership pays
the monthly phone bill for the line.
(Of course, in Australia - with its
tradition of gov't-owned telco (a.k.a.
Testra - currently accounting for 90+%
percent of the market; read: monopoly)
- local calls are -not- free, so hams
in Australia never enjoyed the benefit
of the autopatch.)
Oh, and if the [SA] Gov't Radio Network's
telephone-interconnect is any indication,
trunked radio networks charge HEAPS for a
phone call from a trunked radio (handheld
or mobile)... one service paying Au$ 8 / min
ie before it was removed from most radios.
Also, each radio in the network capable
of using the telephone interconnect ser-
vice was charged Au$ 5 / month - just like
cel.phones.
If you implement your -own- trunked radio
network, with tel.interconnect, you could
decide for yourself how to charge.
BTW, you didn't give us any indication of
how much traffic each handset/radio might
be expected to generate here...?
Hmmm. (Score:1)
How many miles? (Score:2, Informative)
Unless you're talking 40 or 50 miles, I bet if you talk to a local radio expert, you would find that a high-gain directional antenna, properly aligned, plus a repeater, would work miracles.
Re:How many miles? (Score:5, Interesting)
The delay is quantiled as a 6 bit number in the GSM data stream. 6 bits => 64 steps (0-63); each step advances the timing by one bit duration ie 3.7 microseconds.64 steps allows compensation over a maximum propagation time of 31.5 bit periods ie 113.3 microseconds ( => a maximum distance of ~ 35 km).
consider (Score:3, Interesting)
Then, get your hands on (or develop if you're so inclined) a voice-over-IP telephone client for said handheld PC and server software.
Seems like this could work as a poor man's makeshift wireless phone service. Of course I have no idea how graceful 802.11b equipment is about handing off from access point to access point, but it seems a lot cheaper (if less entertaining) than Profane Motherfucker's solution.
Re:consider (Score:1)
First, hook up a wireless IP link. Plenty of people report modifying 802.11 equipment for 10+ mile point-to-point.
Next, buy a Vonage [vonage.com] VoIP solution. (about $50 sign up and $25 monthly - requires about 90kbit symmetric - fully integrates with US phone system.) I've use Vonage with my cable modem for a few months now and have been very happy.
You can probably get everything in place for less than US$1,000, assuming that you can get line of sight to someplace where you can put the far end that has also has broadband available.
BTW - satellite IP is spotty with VoIP due to the longer latency.
Re:consider (Score:1)
i ofcourse cant seem to find the link for it now but i do know it exists...
it is argued that's sprints 3g is nothing but voip..
if you realy want me to try hard to dig up that link let me know
Re:consider (Score:2)
Re:consider (Score:2)
assuming you have the wireless coverage for it, what a match made in heven.
not worth it, look for other options. (Score:2)
so, your best options are to look for something else to stay connected, try different operators(if you have more than one), different protocols(nmt is still available in parts of the world, and afaik, has larger cells).
heck, even trying different phones might work(and certainly is worth trying, they have differences in this regard, unless your company is working in south pole it could make it work), some phone manufacturers even sell better antennas for remote locations(naturally, they take more power, at least benefon offered one for their 'io' phone that already had the best range in some tests).
satellite phone might be feasible too..
Get one of these (Score:5, Insightful)
Thuraya phones [thuraya.com] use GSM by default but will fail over to satellite mode when no GSM signal is available.
Re:Get one of these (Score:1)
Radio instead (Score:1)
Re:Radio instead (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Radio instead (Score:1)
DECT (Score:2)
Try a Better Antenna (Score:2)
You might also consider switching providers, if that is an option.
No chance (Score:2)
Get an analog bag phone or be out of touch for a few minutes.
Partnerships (Score:2)
I imagine you could work out a deal where they supply one (or a few) custom placed cells if you buy enough contracts and/or just plain give them enough money. As long as the firm you work for is large enough (I assume it is from the other proposed solutions), it could be a workable system.
This way you would avoid all the hassles of having to learn how to be a mobile phone operator, dealing with the FCC etcetera.
Verizon Wireless (Score:2)
I've been all OVER BFE, and I've never had Verizon not work.
Of course, this is assuming that you are in the U.S. somewhere.
Re:Verizon Wireless (Score:1)
Granted I live on the water (albiet a small body of water), I have only seen one or two carriers make it back here. Nextel was one of them... I thought someone else had a 'normal' cell service and was back here, but I don't recall now.
But AT&T and Verizon are the worst for back here (we're not really backwoods, either.. I'm about 15 miles from the Baltimore City limits)
Re:Verizon Wireless (Score:1)
One nice thing is that Verizon pushes Tri-Mode phones... Meaning no matter where you are, more then likely your phone will have a network to talk to. The only thing better is if they tossed in a fourth satelite band and you were able to hop to that in case I ever visit the Mojave. :-)
Though I was told by a Park Ranger that Verizon regularly calls him and asks where they have the worse coverage in their radios and cell phones... and then they go their with their testing equipment. Usually a basic looking White jeep with antennas all over it. ;-)
Re:Verizon Wireless (Score:2)
I live smack in the middle of BFE, and have almost no radio services at my house at all. I don't even get any FM radio stations. Needless to say, my Cingular phone is always "Searching for network..."
But a few days ago, my girlfriend's cell phone started ringing in my room. Turns out she had 4 out of 5 bars of service.
Work with the operators, not against them (Score:2)
Barriers to entry are so high that trying to compete is practically impossible. Better spend your money on a partnership with an operator. There are numerous examples of large buildings setting up pico-cells inside to ensure good deep coverage. They most likely cover the hardware and setup costs and let the operators bid for access. Then, the negociation hangs on the demographics of the covered population. If it were good enough the operator would already be there, so that means that you will at best give an operator free access to your network. But then you'll have cell phone coverage. Just keep in mind that each BTS will set you back 100-500k USD, so maybe whata you really want is just a VHF relay and handheld transceivers for your employees.
You may also wish to have a look at PMR networks such as TETRA (Terrestrial Trunked Radio). Many large industrial sites that need mission critical secure mobile coverage have turned to it with much success.
A Tetra FAQ [google.fr]
A Tetra introduction [mobilecomm...nology.com]
motorola harmony (Score:1)
also, somebody already mentioned DECT, which is another great possibility. I believe there are lots of european GSM phones that have DECT built in too.
how about a helpful reply (Score:1)
Re:how about a helpful reply (Score:1)
Microcellular (Score:2)
If you want longer range - Find another solution. Your GSM phone won't cut it. If you're in the USA, get a real provider. The GSM operators in the US have HORRENDOUS coverage. One other poster suggested Verizon, I would too. Verizon's network and AT&T's old pre-GSM network are the only ones in the U.S. that can claim options of true nationwide coverage. (And at this point I don't think you can sign up for AT&T's "old" service, leaving VZW as the only game in town.) VZW's 100% coverage plan is somewhat more expensive than their America's Choice plans, which still cover 60-70% of the landmass of the US, significantly more than any other provider can claim for non-roaming service.
Yes, Verizon's plans are significantly more expensive as far as minutes per dollar, but you get what you pay for. Verizon is #1 in coverage, one of the top providers as far as customer service, and one of the top if not #1 in quality control of both their network AND the phones they release. (This is why the selection of phones available on Verizon is usually a bit more limited/behind other CDMA providers - It takes a LOT longer for a phone to pass Verizon QA testing if it passes at all. Nokia hasn't been able to even get a phone through the process successfully since the 5185. They make good GSM phones but are not nearly as competent when it comes to CDMA.)
Another option for you is two-way business-band VHF or UHF NBFM. This will require an FCC license in most cases, but one that's a hell of a lot easier to obtain than a PCS spectrum license. There are a few unlicensed frequencies, max range on those is 5-10 miles.
If the Woz decided to move... (Score:1)
"Dogs love me 'cause I'm crazy sniffable." -Beastie Boys
Determining coverage (Score:2)
Seems it wouldn't be too hard to put a GPS device in the cellphone, and to have it contantly recording the signal level every, say, 5 seconds. If it has clean signal, it can send the data immediately; and if it's in a dead spot, it can cache the data for (some time -- a day at most? Depends on how much it takes to store it), and then send it up when it has signal again.
This way, the cellular carrier will have detailed maps of where they need new towers.
I'm sure they have some way of determining where to put a new tower, but this seemed like a good solution -- if people aren't going to a specific area, then it won't get data from there, and they won't need to waste putting a cell tower up near there.
Re:Determining coverage (Score:1)
The operators do know the areas they don't have any masts, and it is possible for them to determine where the blind spots are. This can be done by :- (Slight detour into how the cell-to-cell handover works)
The cell-towers are grouped into Location Registers, generally there is the same average number of phones in each LR, so rural LRs cover a area bigger than urban ones.
Each cell has its 'Home' LR, generaly (for contracts) where the owner lives, this stores most of the information about the phone.
When your phone changes LR, the HLR sends a Update Location to the Vistor (current) LR, and then sends a Cancel Location to the old VLR.
Anyway, if the phone wasn't off, and there was a gap in its heatbeats, then there is a dead spot. Using the signal strengths at the new and old locations, thier locations, and the geography of the region, to infere where the dead spot are (Or the company can call the owner).
Re:Determining coverage (Score:1)
Passive repeaters (Score:2)
A passive repeater is two tuned high-gain antennas connected by a length of high-quality coax (or other transmission line).
You put the exterior antenna in an optimum position for transmit/receive to the cellular antenna (perhaps even using a directional design such as a Yagi) and place the interior antenna in a strategic location for maximum internal coverage.
There IS some loss in this design, but the idea is to make up for it in the gain of the antennas (especially the external one).
Best of all, this design requires no power (as it is completely passive) and if you're handy with antenna design, you could whip the whole thing together on a thin budget.
Sprint PCS (Score:1)
When they launched the network, I think there was something like 427 towers around the metro area, with plans to build more. Not sure how many more, as my serivces were no longer needed after they launched. Sure did a lot of driving in the 9 months or so that I worked for em.
Site Rental (Score:2)
Is this fact or speculation?
In the UK, the mobile operators are so desperate to install new transmitters they actually pay [tens] thousands a year to householders,stores,schools,libaries indeed nearly anybody really thousands a year in site rent. The key factor is not the type of location or even number of subs, but mainly black-spot coverage. The coverage percentage is a main selling point.
Towers of Babble (Score:1)
If you know the bandwidth you can build your own antennas [qsl.net] (maybe even your own repeater [pbs.org]). Of course you could always build the thing (things?) and just nail it in an appropriately located treen on the high ground.
"The phrase "high tech" doesn't spring out at me here."
anonymous coward