Why Are Skeptics Such a Negative Bunch? 74
Makin Waves asks: "Skeptics are very good at 'disproving' things that can't be proven in the first place, so, how about offering me a reasonable, rational explanation for all the cattle mutilations in Argentina instead? (200 at last count). A decent explanation must include the following...Where did all the blood go? What portable instrument does the cauterized cuts? Why won't scavengers touch the dead bodies? Why are there no tracks or blood around the bodies? Why do they take tissues that have a lot of nerves? Last but not least, if not aliens....then Who, Why and How? A Google search will get you all the info you need. For the lazy, this place has a lot of stories. C'mon skeptics, put your money where your mouth is. Maybe it was 'auto-suggestion' eh?"
Vampire Robots, of course (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Vampire Robots, of course (Score:1)
Re:Vampire Robots, of course (Score:1)
I think a good name for a speed metal band would be 'Bio Mechanical Innards.'
Cattle mutilations explained (Score:1, Redundant)
Scientific approach (Score:2)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:1)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:2)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:2, Insightful)
The point I'm getting at is without a good BS detector (scepticism) nobody will be able to decide what to believe.
Re:Scientific approach (Score:1)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:1)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:1)
Re:Scientific approach (Score:2)
Another one down! Next, please!
but skeptics support SETI (Score:2, Insightful)
On the other hand it's also crappy thinking to say that if there is something unexplained going on, then the explanation is probably something Big that subverts the dominant paradigm and will make all those smug science people humble when they realize that an ordinary person had the
Sigh (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Sigh (Score:1)
> A bunch of cows die and nobody claims responsibility, so it MUST be aliens? Please.
I'll bet you're a curmudgeon who doesn't think aliens make crop circles, either!
BTW, I read somewhere that in the USA cattle mutilations follow county lines. If a sheriff writes them up as insurable losses they continue in that county, otherwise they stop after the first couple of incidents. Funny behavior for aliens, if true.
Maybe aliens want to wreck the insurance industry before their assault troops land.
Re:Sigh (Score:2)
Why they're so negative (Score:1, Funny)
1) They have poor people skills and lack tact. They usually are obsessional and highly impassioned over their chosen field, and wish to bulldoze anything in their way.
2) They hold their values/ideals/theories as personal mojo brownie points, they don't truly care about they truth or any 'scientific method', all they're interested in is warping and ramming in everything to fit in with what is fashionable in the accidemic establishment in th
Re:Why they're so negative (Score:1)
"Omigod, I'm a professor. How did this happen?!"
Your comments are on target for some academics, but not all of them. The vast majority of successful scientists recognize that to disprove a false claim requires only science, not vitriol. The ones you speak of, though they may claim to be evangelists for "reason," are really just inte
Re: (Score:1)
sceptical... (Score:1)
Simple explanation. It's a bloody HOAX!!! (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Simple explanation. It's a bloody HOAX!!! (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
Link (Score:4, Informative)
burden of proof (Score:1)
My (not so) humble opionion... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:My (not so) humble opionion... (Score:2)
If it's in Argentina, wouldn't that be Gaucho Neal?
Hi, I'm a skeptic (Score:2)
If you're confused, just remember, you're not confused. Figure that one out, brainac.
You have skeptics wrong (Score:3, Insightful)
When a new "unknown" is discovered (like this cow thing) people put forth theories (aliens, vampire robots, etc). A skeptic is someone who is unwilling to agree to your theory without evidence.
I think the statement "we earthlings are being visited by extraterrestrials" demonstrates this point nicely. While there is much antidotal testimony to support such a statement, there does not appear to be evidence (no alien corpses washing up on Miami beach, no alien spacecraft shot down by Syrian shepherds and on display).
Many skeptics also understand that usually the first theories about something are, in fact, incorrect.
Re:You have skeptics wrong (Score:2)
You almost had it right. In fact, the saucer people and the reverse vampires are behind this.
Not "dis"-proving. Proving "non-proof." (Score:5, Insightful)
It's a "put up or shut up" argument. Are there dead cows on the side of the road? Sure, I suppose occasionally a cow dies here or there. And occasionally teenagers go out and kill a bunch on a lark (I'm guessing).
Are there cows with no blood, cauterized wounds (why cauterize them if the blood has been drained?), and that no longer appear appetizing to vultures? Hm. That's interesting. Where are these? How many? And, most importantly, have they been independently verified?
Skeptics are, as a rule, willing to believe. But nobody who's come forward with an incredible claim has been able to show that they were what was claimed in the first place. It's easy to say that you've been abducted by aliens. Anyone can do it. It's difficult to prove that you've been abducted, and without some kind of proof, skepticism is the only proper response.
It's been said by many (and I've already seen it mentioned here) that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof." That's what it comes down to.
If you can document, with careful undoctored photographs of dead cows, medical examinations of their drained bodies and cauterized wounds, surveilance of un-vultured corpses (with additional surveilance of other dead animals in the region at the same time to be sure it's not just a vulture holiday), and bring all that, properly reported and analyzed, then a skeptic might be willing to say that something weird's going on.
But bring them all that information, and then say "see, aliens did it!", then not only will you have an unprovable claim, but you're likely to cast a shadow on otherwise proper research. (good tip -- if you're trying to be an authority on cattle mutiliations, don't pose for a photo in a crop circle.) And don't forget, no matter how well-performed your research, it's still possible you introduced an unintentional bias in the methods or results, and the report that the deaths are "weird" might itself not even be valid.
I might also mention that the vast amount of bad science in the field of paranormal studies strongly discourages real scientists from getting into the field, so the posssibility of real, controlled, precice research into any of these is only hampered by the wackos complaining that nobody's listening to them.
So, no, skeptics aren't a "negative" bunch. To paraphrase Fox Mulder, many "want to believe." But to be comfortable in that belief, they need something more than badly-designed web pages and the Weekly World News.
Re:Not "dis"-proving. Proving "non-proof." (Score:2, Informative)
FWIW, the, uhh, classical source (in western "civilization", props to Gandhi) of the argument about the strength of testimony required to establish an extraordinary claim stems back to David Hume. Amongst his diverse interests were arguments concerning the existence of a deity, and here's his encapsulated response to attempts to establish the existence of a deity by appeal to testimony about miracles:
occult rituals? (Score:1)
Re:occult rituals? (Score:1)
Beside, its very hard to HIDE in the flat, treeles pampas.
Wait, maybe theres an UNDERGROUND tribe. That would explain everything.
Have I been trolled?
If so, cheers.
Vultures (Score:1)
Re:Vultures (Score:2)
Vulture 2: Dude---haven't you heard?
Vulture 1: What?
Vulture 2: Aliens touched that cow!
Vulture 1: Huh?
Vulture 2: Aliens. They're these short, smart humans who make guest appearances in X-files episodes.
Vulture 1: X-files? I saw that once! There was some guy, and everybody thought he was a Fox or something but he didn't even have a tail, and then there was some lady named Scully, and she kept getting taller and then shorter.
Vulture 2: Yeah, that's the one. Anyway---
Vulture
So does "it was aliens" work? (Score:5, Insightful)
Where did all the blood go? What portable instrument does the cauterized cuts? Why won't scavengers touch the dead bodies? Why are there no tracks or blood around the bodies? Why do they take tissues that have a lot of nerves?
That's a lot of questions. Add to it, Did the blood really go? How robust was the research into scavengers? Has there been any research into whether the meat was edible? Why are you talking about "they"?
Now, let's try "it were aliens" as the answer. How many questions have we answered? None. Do we get any new questions? Yes - How can aliens come to earth, How come no-one noticed them even with extremely refined rader equipment etc, and Why in heck would they do a thing like this.
An answer that answers nothing and only poses new, rather hard questions is not a very good answer.
Unfortunately the link is Slashdotted. I'd look into the facts first - how thorough was the research that makes those claims?
Last but not least, if not aliens....then Who, Why and How?
Those have to be answered if you argue it was done by aliens, too.
Question for original questioner (Score:2)
Are you skeptical of my claim? Well then by your logic, *you* are now responsible for proving me wrong, presumably by removing all tortilla chips from the world and demonstrating that the discrepancy still remains.
By your logic, if you don't then you'll just have to accept my t
Re:Question for original questioner (Score:1)
You just cleared up a lot for me. I've always suspected there was something up with tortilla chips.
Re:So does "it was aliens" work? (Score:2)
Without delving into the rest of the quagmire of this thread, I have to say something here...
You are correct that the "aliens" explanation provides no answers, yet raises questions. No argument there. But on a philosophical note...Answers to questions that raise more (and harder) questions are the best ones. It happens to me all the time. Whenever I do an experiment and get a good answer, 10 more great qu
You can't have proof of fantasy (Score:1, Insightful)
For example, you ask for an explaniation of the "surgical tools." Who says there any cuts at all, much less of "surgical precison."? Who says surgical tools are required? Whether the evidence is of anything "surgical" is a judgment call and it turns out that the judgment is wrong.
I'd like to know how you leap from "You can
Skeptics *have* put their money up... (Score:4, Insightful)
C'mon skeptics, put your money where your mouth is.
You obviously have never heard of James Randi [randi.org]. He (and his foundation) have offered a $1,000,000 prize to anyone who can scientifically prove claims of the paranormal [randi.org].
Guess what. Nobody has ever collected. In fact, nobody has ever passed a preliminary screening test for the prize.
I don't have a copy of Randi's An Encyclopedia of Claims, Frauds, and Hoaxes of the Occult and Supernatural [amazon.com] with me at work, but I'm sure there's an entry about cattle mutilations. You might borrow that book from the library sometime (or any of Randi's other books, or a tape of his PBS Nova special [pbs.org]). It would definitely give you some perspective, even if it didn't answer your questions about dead bovines.
Skeptics are skeptical because we believe that there are a set of rules to follow when observing phenomena and formulating explainations for them. The burden of proof lies with those who wish to believe. Just because I can't readily provide a rational explanation for dead cattle doesn't mean that "aliens must have done it." If that sounds like a cop-out, consider it this way: just because I can't provide a rational explanation of how a magician appears to levitate somebody on stage doesn't mean that he has supernatural powers. Most of us know that magicians don't have super-powers, yet most of us can't explain how their tricks work (at least, the good ones).
Add to that the fact that many people want to believe in the supernatural, even if they're proven wrong! Many people still believe that crop circles are made by visitors from another world, even though it has been shown (many times!) that all you need is a 2x4, some surveyor's tape, a few buddies, and 6 hours in the dark.
So skeptics aren't negative, they're just less easily excited. That may make them seem like party-poopers, but it's really just the fact that many people are waaaaaaaay too willing to believe.
Come on, say it with me... (Score:2, Funny)
It's a tautology? (Score:3, Informative)
1. One who instinctively or habitually doubts, questions, or disagrees with assertions or generally accepted conclusions.
2. One inclined to skepticism in religious matters.
3. Philosophy.
1. often Skeptic An adherent of a school of skepticism.
2. Skeptic A member of an ancient Greek school of skepticism, especially that of Pyrrho of Elis (360?-272? B.C.).
[Latin Scepticus, disciple of Pyrrho of Elis, from Greek Skeptikos, from skeptesthai, to examine. See spek- in Indo-European Root
s.]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
On an entirely other angle, I grew up on a farm and have seen a lot of dead things.
These cattle mutilations always sounded a lot like a few dead cows and some insect scavengers. It's pretty amazing how some insects will completely devour one organ and leave the rest.
LOL - retarded? yes. (Score:1)
Anything that doesn't immediately present itself as obvious to you HAS to be space aliens.
Or super-intelligent mind reading mice.
You have to be kidding me. It scares me that there are so many retards that are allowed to live out there... worst yet they post on slashdot. You are probably even allowed to drive.
Go out and buy Carl Sagan's "A Demon Haunted World" and read it from cover to cover.
Then do the world a favor and beat yourself to death with it.
Re:LOL - retarded? yes. (Score:1)
Skeptics don't get laid (Score:2)
Skeptic: What? Nooo, you don't reeeally. Do you?
Earnest: I want to have your baby.
Skeptic: Hahaha. I don't believe you can have babies. But you almost got me there.
I can't be certain, but... (Score:2, Interesting)
As legitimate a question as this Ask Slashdot is, and as worked up as people are getting, I can't help noticing the post date:
Tuesday April 01, @07:00AM
And other Ask Slashdot topics today, including "Why do some CDRs smell like Almonds?" and "How Much Are Tongues Worth?"
Perhaps the editors are trying to get back at us for our spelling and grammar skills by phrasing silly questions as legitimate avenues of inquiry and seeing what happens. Just a thought.
Justin
Interesting April 1st Question... (Score:2)
The question is regarding the portable instrument used to make cauterized cuts. I remember back in the early 90's seeing in a Popular Science or Popular Mechanics magazine a blurb in the "new technology" section about a handheld laser device, about the size of a flashlight, being developed by DARPA for in-field surgery needs in time of war. It seems like a possible thing to build, though I w
"Mutilation"? (Score:2, Insightful)
I, for one, would be fascinated if animal mutilations---heck, even one---turned out to be of metaphysical origin. But having seen a whole bunch of pictures of alleged mystical occurrences (whether caused by aliens, satanists, radioactive ants, whatever), I gotta tell you, the metaphysical theories just aren't all that compelling.
Take this photo [crystalinks.com], for example, taken by an Alabama police officer in 1993. The website [crystalinks.com] says, "There is no evidence of scavenging birds, but rather a precise oval incision which r
OK, I'll bite... (Score:2)
Why don't you try it on your neighbor's pet ?
Coded message (Score:1, Offtopic)
GGur uhznaf ner ba gb hf. Gurl ner fgnegvat gb nfx irel hapbzsbegnoyr dhrfgvbaf nobhg gurve sbhe-yrttrq oerguera. Bhe cynaf gb hfr gurz nyy nf fynirf naq zrng pbhyq tb njel. Pbzzrapr vainfvba va avar beovgf bs guvf fuvgubyr zhqonyy nebhaq vgf cngurgvp, htyl lryybj fgne. Vzcbegnag! Ercrng: Vzcbegnag! Gur qnatrebhf fvgr xabja nf Fynfuqbg zhfg or fnobgntrq! Bajneq, Unyvgbffnevna Rzcver! Unvy gur Terng Yrnqr
Religious Zeal (Score:3, Interesting)
There may be some odd religious group that has some kind of ritual or rite which requires (or at least, results in) these cattle-mutilations. Or, it could be a group that has a quasi-religous zeal in suckering people into believing a lie.
The fact that you can't explain it, or know what tools are necessary to do such a thing, is by no means proof that there is no simple explanation.
Ever think that the cattle may be exanguinated in such a way that no blood is lost? Many, many religions require the reclamation of a sacrifice's blood; there are such religions native to south and central america, as well as the rest of the world. Cauterizing helps control the bleeding, so that every possible drop can be reclaimed. The Egyptians once removed the heart, liver, intestines, and other vital organs as part of their death rites (even when mummifying non-humans, such as cats and cattle. Blood was also drained from the corpses. The bible speaks of King Solomon sacrificing thousands of bullocks for the dedication of the temple he built, and the draining of blood is part of the sacrificial ritual. In fact, it's rare to find a culture that did not at one time or another have animal sacrifices, and even more rare for one of those cultures to not include bloodletting (and collection) in such sacrifices.
Occam's Razor... you fools (Score:1)
Well, duh - you overlook the obvious: WE HAVE!
Why isn't blood involved in these "cattle mutilations?" Because these vampire cows don't have blood! These are the very bodies you are saying we never see! Why don't vultures feast on the carcass? Because these alien bodies are inedible! Even animals know better than to eat poisonous carrion, so they avoid these rotting space aliens like the
The way I heard it... (Score:2)
Rancher Bob has a sick cow. That cow cost a lot of money to raise.
Now ignore the fact that the cow was sick. Rancher Bob sees some strange lights out back one night. And then, one of his cows his horribly massacared on night. It must have been aliens! THe cops come and agree that it was strange alright.
Rancher Bob then submits an insurace claim on the cow. Left as an exercise for the reader is which cow died...
my only question (Score:1)
skepdic.com Entry (Score:2)
One of the best resources I've found for general healthy skeptism is skepdic.com [skepdic.com]. Here's their entry on cattle mutilations [skepdic.com]. The site is effectively a catalogue of all kinds of phenomenon; I suspect even non skeptics would enjoy browsing through it.
In regards to skepticism in general, I have a thought on that. The first thing skeptics do is question the essentials of any situation. In the vast majority of cases, it is simply the initial information that is wrong and the impossible scenario never occured
come on now... (Score:2)
That's what any highly advanced race which has spent untold generations, money, and effort building machines to travel such larg
I told you: it has nothing to do with agriculture (Score:1)
It's the perfect ruse...