Eleventy What? 157
TheFr00n asks: "I recently managed to teach my ten year old son the hexadecimal number system, but he shot me back a question that has me stumped. How does one pronounce hex, after the first iteration? In decimal, we have nice words like 'fifty' and 'sixteen'. Is there an official way of pronouncing a hexadecimal number like CF9? 'See hundred and effty-nine'? (which is totally wrong anyway because a hundred is 64 in hexidecimal) Any thoughts?"
Maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Maybe (Score:1)
Re:Maybe (Score:1)
I think "zero-echs-cee-eff-niner" has a good flow... I'd like to see Eminem work that into his next batch of rhymes.
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
tsay-eff-noin?
Or french
say-eu-neuf? (where eu is like Eu in Europe.)
Or a variety of other languages? I am pretty sure we could find one you like. ^_^
Re:Maybe (Score:3, Informative)
For anything other than decimal you're not meant to use "ten", "hundred", "twenty", etc. Eg:
Binary: 1011 - One-Oh-One-One
Octal: 7326 - Seven-Three-Two-Six
Decimal: 4729 - Four thousand seven hundred and twenty nine
Hexadecimal: 28ad - Two-Eight-A-D
Simple, huh?
Daniel
Re:Maybe (Score:3, Insightful)
Please be precise enough to use "zero" when pronouncing "0".
"Decimal: 4729 - Four thousand seven hundred and twenty nine"
There is no "and" in "4729".
in decimal, "and" = a decimal (Score:2)
4729.5 - Four thousand seven hundred twenty nine and five tenths
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
Although I'm sure he didn't mean it this way, the "and" denotes addition. It used to be a common way of expressing numbers, but is now taught as being "incorrect." For an example, the Gettysburg Address: "Four score and seven years ago" = 80 + 7 = 87, or "Indeed, I am not yet one and twenty." = "Yeah, I'm not one plus twenty yet" = "Yeah, I'm not twenty-one yet."
Four-thousand-seven-hundred and twenty-nine means 4700 + 29, which is the equivalent of 4729.
The "you only use 'and' i
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
The sloppier one's speech, in circumstances where clarity and precision should be the norm, such as newscasters, public utterances of politicians, teachers in the classroom, et cetera, the sloppier I suspect to be their thinking.
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
Re:Maybe (Score:2)
Re:Maybe (Score:1)
No worries here (Score:2, Funny)
Re:No worries here (Score:1)
Re:No worries here (Score:2, Funny)
Re:No worries here (Score:2)
Node on E2? (Score:2)
Re:Node on E2? (Score:2)
It's the closest I could find...
I'll be so damn happy (Score:2)
Re:I'll be so damn happy (Score:2)
Re:I'll be so damn happy (Score:3, Funny)
Perhaps, (Score:3, Insightful)
we'd have some slick as chit way to pronounce them.
Necessity is the MUTHA of invention. Most people go
around talking in base ten. Most people have no
need at all for anything but base ten. Go figure
it's what we have words for.
Color (Score:5, Funny)
Heh (Score:3, Funny)
"CF9"
"CF9 with Jack and Jill"
"Now F is tired"
"CF sleep..."
"69" comments are automatically modded redundant and posters will be assumed to have the mental age of an eggplant.
Re:Heh (Score:2, Funny)
In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:5, Informative)
All non decimal systems pronounce the digits individally.
E.g. 10 in base 2 is not "ten" but "one zero"
And 734 in octal is "seven, three, four. Not seven thirty four, or variations on that theme.
Hope this helps.
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
I say "thirty-two hex" and even "thirty-two hundred hex" and "charlie thousand hex" on occasion. And my world hasn't collapseD43mjodu4trfk#*(%^&#)$)*(
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:1)
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
Nope. E.g. www.m-w.com says either pronunciation is ok:
My previous understanding was that the J pronunciation was primarily British where American was primarily G, but I certainly hear J from time to
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
So I asked him what you use to measure temperature or speed? Obvously a "thermo-meter" or "speedo-meter"..
He didn't like that.
Right they are (Score:2)
But the 2 and the 0 in 20H are still a two and a zero, so saying "two-zero hex" (where "hex" is optional if understood) is quite correct, while "twenty" is not.
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:1)
that's what my assembly teacher keeps repeating anyway, "you always read binary from right to left"
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:1)
Your assembly teacher is being pedantic on a non-issue. OTOH, it is akin to the big endian/little endian holy wars of past which were never won... the combatants simply tired of the fight.
If it is written out as 11001010001, then natives to non-asian/eastern languages will naturally tend to read it from left to right, starting with "one, one..." As long as the right people know which bit is most significant, it's OK.
Your instructor is distracting you with a rule which is linguistically invalid and
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:2)
If he still insists on being an (incorrect) pedant, ask him why he doesn't speak the decimal number 456 as "six-fifty-four-hundred", and tell him that while operations on decimal numbers are performed right-to-left, just like with binary numbers, the number itself is read left-to-right (again, just like with binary numbers).
Re:In all non-decimal systems.. (Score:1)
Err, it's just the same as any other number system (Score:3, Insightful)
The number we have given the name two and is written as "2" in decimal, in binary is written 10, but it's still called two, just the notation changed. In hexadecimal, the number we call sixteen is written 10, but it's still called sixteen.
Of course if you want say a number in a specific notation you'll need to not only spell it out but also state the system so as to avoid ambiguity ("the number `one-zero' in binary notation") as using the number's name implies the use of the decimal notation.
If you ask somebody to write down some numbers, and you read them out as "one, two, three, four", the subject should be perfectly able to use the binary notational system to write them down as "01, 10, 11, 100", they've recorded the numbers you spake correctly.
Re:Err, it's just the same as any other number sys (Score:1)
I do get what you're saying, but consider that the spoken form assumes base ten - hence its terminology and interations of ten.
This all comes of not having enough digits to begin with. If we could just have evolved with eight fingers on each hand ...
Implied base 10 in oral speech (Score:2)
Twenty-three obviously represents a two in the second order digit and a three in the first order digit. In addition, our language has an implied base 10 marker, though not an inherent one. We did not name 2^6 number of sticks as "si-cs-ti-for", like we did a "pair" of sticks, we constructed that number out of a shared understanding of a base 10 numerical system.
If you ask someone to wr
Re:Implied base 10 in oral speech (Score:2)
The name of the numeral '2' is 'two'. The value of the numeral '2' is 2 in base ten, and any bases with a radix larger than 2.
So, if I write, "what's 3 in binary?" you know that I mean I want 11 as the answer because you assume the 3 in the question is in a base higher than 2, so the numeral also has some implied value, and use beyond that of a symbol.
Gee, this is challenging to describe in English...
effty-nine (Score:2)
Re:effty-nine (Score:2)
For any value of 2B. FYI.
Re:effty-nine (Score:2)
Re:effty-nine (Score:2)
At least you should try to get it rigth: the name should be: 0x7C0
0x19A4 is about four and a half thousand years into the future
Re:effty-nine (Score:2)
As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:2)
Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot
(the rest
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:1)
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:4, Interesting)
What's nice about the 1st 6 from aviation notation (Score:2)
Re:What's nice about the 1st 6 from aviation notat (Score:2)
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:1)
Abel, Baker, Charlie, Dog, Easy, Fox... the only way to digitize.
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:2)
Currently, in the US, there are 2 main forms of the Phonetic alphabet being used "Police" and International/Military. The Police version has some regional variations, but as almost all theri comms are intra department it does not matter (btw the 10 codes vary
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:1)
one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eigth, niner, alpha, bravo, charlie, delta, echo, foxtrot.
-Jeff
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:1)
-Jeff
Re: Thanx! (Score:1)
Re: Thanx! (Score:1)
Re:As a programmer 20 some years ago... (Score:2)
Maybe the media will show some interest (Score:3, Funny)
CF9 (Score:1)
Re:CF9 (Score:1)
I've thought about this (Score:2, Funny)
What needs to be done is to invent words that mean each of these symbols. When you say A in hex it is not the alphabet A, it's a totally different concept and needs a different word to express it.
The best way would be to invent and standardize a set of words for speaking numbers/about numbers in base 16. Because, really, 10 would be pronounced "sixteen" which makes no sense. Base16(16) should be pronounced "16" and mean base10(22).
It's a culture/language thing
Re:I've thought about this (Score:1)
"When you say A in hex it is not the alphabet A", this is a perfectly good point, but you don't go far enough. To do this properly, we really need new symbols for the hex numbers A to F too.
But then, we probably have too many characters for all sorts of things as it is, and hex is not in common enough usage for much effort to be invested in this.
Re:I've thought about this (Score:1)
The only problem it would take some doing to memorize these new symbols, and it would make it more difficult for new programmers, etc. to learn how to use hex...
dek el zen tris cat kink (Score:4, Interesting)
On Everything2, there's the node Names for digits higher than 9 [everything2.com]. The names for the digits - I have no idea who created them - are "dek" for A, "el" for B, "zen" for C, "tris" for D, "cat" for E, and "kink" for F.
Re:dek el zen tris cat kink (Score:2)
Donald Knuth Has The Answer (Score:5, Interesting)
In section 4.1 of The Art of Computer Programming, Donald Knuth describes:
Maybe you should get that issue of that journal and give it a try.
Re:Donald Knuth Has The Answer (Score:3, Interesting)
From Recreations in Mathematics, by H. E. Licks (Van Nostrand, 1917):
I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:1)
159 is formally "one hundred fifty nine," not "one hundred and fifty nine."
"And" is for decimal places, as in 159.7 = one hundred fifty nine and seven tenths.
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
Says who? Where I come from, we put the "and" in. Do you have a World Government decree supporting your claim?
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
The point is that using "and" to represent the decimal point is a Bad Idea since it's a jargon limited to a small set of American mathematics professionals. Even Chicago allows it to mean something other than the decimal, and Columbia and other manuals allow that in formal writing--so clearly it's an ambiguous usage. I'd stick with:
162: one hundred sixty-two
100.62: one hundred point six two
Both are unambiguous and will communicate the idea clearly to listeners of all backgr
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:3, Informative)
159.34 is "one hundred and fifty nine point three four".
You'll only hear Americans and children who are just learning about decimals say "point thirty four" in the UK.
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
"And" is for decimal places, as in 159.7 = one hundred fifty nine and seven tenths.
You can easily pick up any of the formal writing guides (e.g The Columbia Guide to Standard American English, or the Associated Press style guide) and see that "and" is correct usage when pronouncing 159 as "one hundred and fify-nine". Any native American English speaker will agree.
The same is true in Britain for native speakers.
Some American mat
Re:I don't know the answer, but don't use "and"! (Score:2)
The word "and" means "in addition to", so "Jim and myself..." means
I have the solution! (Score:3, Insightful)
I was really inspired by this question. It's a wonderful mix of mathematics and linguistics. Because a quick post to Slashdot couldn't cover it in enough detail, I wrote up some thoughts I had on the subject, which you can find here [michael-forman.com]. Also included is information on how Americans and Europeans differ in their transliteration of base-ten numbers.
Here's an excerpt:
How does one transliterate numbers of arbitrary bases? For example the number "562" is transliterated as "five hundred and sixty two" but how would one transliterate the hex number "0xDEADBEEF"? The text below attempts to answer that question using two methods. The first is a rigorous and technically accurate method but is difficult to use. The second is technically less rigorous but is simple to use
Michael.
Re:I have the solution! (Score:2)
Re:I have the solution! (Score:2)
Actually the number "500.62" is transliterated as "five hundred and sixty two"... the number "562" is transliterated as "five hundred sixty two" Don't they teach this is elementry school anymore?
Re:I have the solution! (Score:2)
make that last stinging statement "Don't they teach this in elementary school anymore?"
Hey, pity the poor Romans (Score:1)
How do you say that in a hurry eh?
And don't get me started on the US/UK difference in missing out 'and' e.g. 101 Dalmations:
One Hundred AND One Dalmations
vs
One Hundred, One Dalmations.
And how about Two gross, three dozen and four?
"Thirteen Twenty", could be a year or a time.
Four score and Ten
vs
Quatre Vingt Dix
Yes (Score:4, Funny)
Is there an official way of pronouncing a hexadecimal number like CF9?
"Three thousand five hundred seventy seven."
Re:Yes (Score:2)
or Charlie Foxtrot Nine
BTW for you Americans out there, the rest of the world uses the NATO/Seaspeak Alphabet.
It took me a while to wonder WTF yank films insist on saying "Baker" instead of "Bravo"
I suppose it's because you can't spell COLOUR,
FLAVOUR or any number of other words correctly.
STO
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Stop
This
Madness
Now!
!!!!11
Re:Yes (Score:2)
"Three thousand thread hundred twenty one."
Re:Yes (Score:2)
Been coding far too much.
Obligatory Saturday Night Live Reference (Score:2)
Trebek: "And You wagered eleventy billion dollars. That's not even a real number"
Reeves "...yet."
Trebek "Simply stunning."
Of course, I guess that's better than French Stewart's $Texas wager.
Here's a scheme (Score:1)
0 zero 10 hex 20 biex 10 hex
1 one 11 hexune 21 biex one 20 biex
2 two 12 hexadual 22 biex two 30 triex
3 three 13 hexter 23 biex three 40 quadex
4 four 14 hexaquad 24 biex four 50 quinex
5 five 15 hexequine 25 biex five 60 sessex
6 six 16 hexess 26 biex six 70 heptex
7 seven 17 hexept 27 biex seven 80 octex
8 eight 18 hexoct 28 biex eight 90 nonex
9 nine 19 hexanone
Re:Here's a scheme (Score:1)
In the news today, 12 computer scientists die from choking to death. Apparently, their colleagues stood by and watched thinking they must surely be trying to pronounce a hexidecimal number.
-bort
Hmm (Score:1)
I wouldn't teach a kid that this was how to pronounce hex, anyway (see orig question); after all, conversation is about shared meaning, and if he's the only one in the room who knows what he's saying, he's not communicating. That's even worse than raising yo
Can of cun.. (Score:2)
This is local site for local people
Rus
One of my favorite songs: (Score:2)
One hundred buckets of bits on the bus,
one hundred buckets of bits.
Take one down,
Short it to ground
FF buckets of bits on the bus.
...
hex - hexia - hexenium (Score:2)
hexia for multiples of 16^2 and
hexium for multiples of 16^3.
Therefore I would pronounce CF9 as "Twelve-hexia, Effex, Nine"
B3D1 would be "Elevenexium, threehexia, deehex, one"
Note: A, B and C can be pronounced ten, eleven, twelve.
D, E and F I would pronounce dee, ee and eff.
How About? (Score:2)
Three thousand, three hundred and twenty-one?
Tell your son that rules for formal pronunciation require on-the-fly conversion to decimal.
Informally, he can say either "zero eks cee eff nine", or "cee eff nine base sixteen".
If he's smart, he'll figure out it's less work to settle for the serialization scheme of pronunciation.
Shoot, for very large or very many decimal numbers that you have to read over the phone the serialization protocol is typically what is used.
You don't hear many folks talk about thei
you're a troll (Score:1)
FYI he prefers cricket.
You sound as if someone you used to make do your homework is now your boss. Quit whining.