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Educating Users/Students on Reducing Exposure to the RIAA 115

Posted by Cliff from the keeping-a-low-profile dept.
An anonymous reader asks: "I work for a medium-sized university (25K students), and have been asked to come up with ideas on how to reduce our exposure to the RIAA. Our head of IT gets 50 to 100 emails from the RIAA every week, complaining about IP addresses where P2P applications offer copyrighted songs for download. We don't want to firewall off P2P applications completely, we just want to get the RIAA off our backs. How do other university IT departments educate students to stop attracting the RIAA's attention? Thanks for any war stories you might be able to share !"
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Educating Users/Students on Reducing Exposure to the RIAA More

Educating Users/Students on Reducing Exposure to the RIAA

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  • Have you tried selling out the first student caught and making an example of them?

    Ok, try that and get back to me. I wanna see how this pans out.

    • Oh, and while you may think I'm kidding - I very much doubt that people will do anything until it seems real to them. They wouldn't take CDs from a store, but they'll download because they think they're not being watched.

      So watch them before the RIAA do, and make a big deal about it. If you don't want to go public that's fine, but make sure all the students know that the law could be watching as easily as you were. Also, if handled right, you can come off as the good guy.

  • At my university... (Score:4, Informative)

    by CTho9305 ( 264265 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @02:20AM (#5860156) Homepage
    At my university, they posted signs in all the dorms explaining how to turn off uploading in Kazaa, and put up a web page with a list of common P2P apps and how to disable sharing. This was mostly done to address an upstream bandwidth problem, but I would imagine it would have the result you want as well.

    • Re:At my university... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Orthanc_duo ( 452395 ) <forum@noSPAM.orthanc.co.nz> on Friday May 02, 2003 @02:58AM (#5860252) Homepage Journal
      Yay lets all encourage leaching... If your are going to download you should cotribute somthing to the network. If everyone decided to not share anything so as to reduse their bandwidthe there would be nothing on any of the P2P networks.
      • That *would* be an interesting tactic, and it's probably in the RIAA's tactic book. Leech the people who offer shares to blazes.

        The 'consensus model' could suck real bad as things unravel. Probably will.
        • I'm giving the RIAA ideas...
          <scream>nooooooooo</scream>

          On a more serious note I dont think that will ever be a major problem as most P2P apps allow you to limit your upload bandwidth.

          The worst are those that appear to share but cancel any downloads you begin.
      • If everyone decided to not share anything so as to reduse their bandwidthe there would be nothing on any of the P2P networks.

        You don't think that's what the RIAA would like to see happen?

        If anything is going to be the "death" of P2P I think it'll be that. The casual user will probably stop sharing after one threatening letter from an ISP. People already run mods to the P2P apps which shut down downloads by leechers. Eventually you'll have a few brave souls willing to play dodgeball with their ISPs (o

      • Yes, this is unfortunately true, but sharing IS illegal - would you rather be a leech or risk having to pay thousands of dollars in fines to the **AA? Their scare tactics definitely work. Without a completely anonymous P2P system, sharing is a big risk.

      • Re:At my university... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by leviramsey ( 248057 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @09:44AM (#5861446) Journal

        Oh, that's the most effective thing the RIAA could do. Forget suing users. Convince universities (especially Unis) and maybe a cable ISP or two to cap uploads at 2GB per month in their base packages, which would effectively force users on those nets to disable uploading or throttle uploading to 500 bytes/second, forcing more of the upload traffic onto users on non-capped providers.

        Because of the bandwidth spike on the non-capped providers, more of those will start to implement capping of some sort, or those sharing will see how much of their bandwidth is being eaten up by KaZaa et al and deactivate their sharing. The end result is that most of the uploading will be done by people who are leasig dedicated servers hooked up to T3's. These are naturally easier to go after (and there's a lot fewer of them).

        Now if only the *AA had the brains to do it...

      • I had a good laugh at your comment. A P2P user getting upset because someone is not being fair and allowing uploads. Man what a hoot.
      • So why should the University be paying for the bandwidth so you, non-student, can get free stuff?

        It's not like the students are paying for it... well they maybe pay a small fee with tuition, but certainly not as much as say a cable subscription.
        • I pay for upload bandwidth every time someone downloads off me.
          Why should they be any different, incedentally I'm not sugegsting the university pick up the tab, students should be charged for their internet usage if this is not already the case (It is a my university).

  • What I'd do... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @02:40AM (#5860213) Homepage Journal
    " We don't want to firewall off P2P applications completely, we just want to get the RIAA off our backs."

    Find out who the ISP(s?) is(are?) for the RIAA and block them with the firewall.

    (Yeah, I know it won't work, but man that'd sure feel good.)
    • this brings up a question i've been asking for a few years now... why oh why is there no *secure* (or at least somewhat secure) p2p file sharing application?

      how about using ssl for a start. what about secured remailers?

      the requirements:
      1) a user should not be able to get IP specific information on other users
      2) both uploading and downloading should be handled by some sort of encryption (pick one!)

      this should be enough to at least start a discussion as to why there has yet to be a secured p2

  • Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chris Hall ( 5155 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @02:47AM (#5860228) Homepage

    >50 to 100 emails from the RIAA every week

    Surely getting this much unsolicited mail from a single source is tantamount to spam. If it's all from the same sender, or if the content is more-or-less identical, then it should be fairly trivial to block it.

    • The problem is, in the real world, you can't just ignore correspondence. Particularly correspondence from lawyers.

      Don't burn any courier-delivered registered mail unopened, either. It sucks what can result from that.
    • You are forgetting the leson of Intel. It's actually equivalent to trespassing.

    • The problem with that is that those emails are considered legal notices and so forth. Essentially, you block at your own risk, that risk being that, since you nuked the notice, you fail to comply with the applicable laws.

      I'm assuming they're using DMCA provisions in the letter, which basically means take the host down or you take responsibility for any infringements committed by that host. The RIAA then inventories what infringements are going on and sends a snail mail courier to the president of the un

      • The problem with that is that those emails are considered legal notices and so forth.
        How can it be a legal notice with no signature? Unless it's sent by certified mail, there can be no guarantee that it's received. Even the regular post isn't trusted enough for legal notices, so I doubt that this will stand up in court.

        • How can it be a legal notice with no signature?

          ----- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE -----

          • Are digital signatures legally binding? And you still have no way to guarantee delivery, except by hand-delivered courier or registered mail.

            • Re:Digital signatures (Score:2, Informative)

              by yerricde ( 125198 )

              Are digital signatures legally binding?

              In those states where digital signatures are not yet binding, it soon will be. This page [rechten.uvt.nl] lists the legal status of digital signatures in all sorts of jurisdictions. On the page, pull down the menu and select "United States [All States]".

              And you still have no way to guarantee delivery

              Perhaps SMTP does not guarantee delivery, but the instant message protocols already do. Future instant message protocols will allow for cryptographically signed communication.

  • Ideas to throw the RIAA off ya scent (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 02, 2003 @02:51AM (#5860238)
    1. Keep claiming that your network is being hacked.
    2. Bounce the emails from RIAA.
    3. Send them pictures of big signs in your labs with the heading "Copyright Warning".
    4. Pretend that you don't know what P2P is and so keep asking them questions.
    5. Claim that their emails contain virii.
    6. Agree to "help" them survey the extend of the problem for 6 months then claim that after 6 months you have new staff and no one knew about that survey.
    7. Claim that you have a lot of students researching the murky world of P2P.
    8. Firewall of the common P2P ports during office hours.
    9. Explain to the RIAA that you are forced to use Windows and can't lock down the machines/network as you like.
    10. Register you entire domain in some pacific island country and have a funky country code.
    11. Tell them to get stuffed!

  • CUT IT! (Score:1)

    by sICE ( 92132 )
    ok, why the hell dont you want to cut it?

    well, may be you should just cut the p2p connection to the internet anyway, if you dont share to the world riaa wont bother you...

    so you got annoying emails from riaa?! just apply a judge request about spamming, no, better register their email to watchmybigtits.com -- after all we hate them, but they're just humans... (and i prefer them looking to my sister's tits than in my cd library)

    and even better, tell your students how to use irc and ftp, that's HOW one shou
    • and even better, tell your students how to use irc and ftp, that's HOW one should trade files!

      And they watch irc also, and gnutella, and kazza, and just about anything else that you can share files with.
      • And they watch irc also, and gnutella, and kazza, and just about anything else that you can share files with.

        So they watch IRC, do they? Pray tell which of the many hundreds of networks are they watching?

        That gives me and idea... Why not set up a campus-wide IRC server so that students can share their mp3's locally, and reduce the amount of traffic to the outside world. I have never messed much with IRC servers, but it should be easy to restrict access to those with campus-specific hostmasks. Then you

  • Mini ISP? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Associate ( 317603 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @03:13AM (#5860288) Homepage
    I would assume that as a university, you function as a mini-ISP to the students who pay for it by way of computing fees and tuition. Since the P2P companies can no longer be held liable for the clients content, and the courts have ruled against Verizon as far as providing assistance in identifing certain copy right violators, simply call the RIAA's bluff. Tell them to leave you alone, unless they plan on filing suit against the individuals and require they get a court order for the information.
    • Especially if it's a public University. Who better to go up against the RIAA than the Government (well, money wise that is)?

      This probably is the best solution, though. Don't be malicious in your email, but inform them that you are not responsible for what individuals do on your network. Let them handle the end user if they want to.

      • Right. Most schools are having trouble funding teachers, supplies, and academics due to budget cuts from the states...most of which are in a money crunch as it is.. If anything, they'd just roll if there was a lawsuit.
        • I know, I'm currently attending a public university, and budget cuts have hit us hard. But I wonder if the school would front the bill or if some other part of the government could shell it out... Even better, make it a project for the law students. :)

    • Re:Mini ISP? (Score:3, Informative)

      by no_opinion ( 148098 )
      ISPs are still legally required to respond to DMCA take down notices. ISPs are not P2P companies. The emails that the universities (and corporations) are getting are DMCA take down notices.

      I don't understand why anyone would give advice to ignore the law. I don't think the university wants to get sued for violating the DMCA. Educate your users, throttle back P2P bandwidth, and respond to DMCA notices as directed by the law. Tell your students that legal uses of P2P will be allowed, but copyright infri

  • Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shepd ( 155729 ) <slashdot.org@gmai l . c om> on Friday May 02, 2003 @03:21AM (#5860307) Homepage Journal
    Why not just forward the message to the student, and tell the RIAA (with a form letter) you've informed them of the complaint, but that you consider yourself a common carrier and that you'll take no action on behalf of the RIAA.

    Seems a fair way to do it to me. Anything else might be underhanded, and would make more work for you. :-)
    • IANAL, but I doubt that'll stand up. ISPs aren't legally common carriers, you can't consider yourself one and magically make it so.

      • If an ISP isn't a common carrier [bldrdoc.gov], then what the hell are they?

        I know cable broadband companies try to say they aren't, but they want to restrict what their users do--it's not an arguement based on fact.

        • They're not communication services. Which means they should have even less liability than true common carriers.

          When I send a letter out, the mailperson takes it out of my hands and carries it via this route or that.

          When I send an email, my email software barks at the ethernet port hoping for a useful reply. All the ISP does is route traffic according to well defined rules that they have no control over.

          Or say I use web-based mail. Whose ISP is responsible? Mine? The Web Mail's ISP? The Receiver's ISP?

  • You could always "protect" your traffic. (Score:5, Funny)

    by DarkVein ( 5418 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @03:58AM (#5860384) Journal
    For example, you could use the Evil Bit [rfc-editor.org] in TCP/IP packet headers. Non-evil, non-malicious programs should ignore any traffic marked with the evil bit. This protects those devices. If the RIAA is circumventing this protection bit (by ignoring it), you can slap them with a DMCA lawsuit.

  • enough already (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    somebody please take RIAA out to a dark corner of the forest and dig a deep hole, cock your glock...

    • YOu dig the deep hole FIRST, then you get your story atraight about the alibi with your associates, then you put on gloves and a mask, then you drag the RIAA out into the forest, then cock SOMEONE ELSES glock.....

      Sheesh, dont you people ever learn from watching mystery movies?!?

  • maybe (Score:5, Insightful)

    by drDugan ( 219551 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @05:01AM (#5860542) Homepage
    maybe people should stand up and let it be known that we don't think the existence of laws that make a perversion of economics contribues to a free socety or a working market economy.

    the reality of the p2p black market in music is that the cost of the "music" product is artificailly inflated to hundreds of times the real market value because of the (now eliminated) historical distribution controls in tapes/cd/etc. the cost disparity between the selling price and the market price both CREATED and MAINTAINS the black market. it's not rocket science here folks.

    the ridiculousness of current copyright laws and the teeth of the DMCA are the only thing maintaining the profits by which these people harass everyone else. why should we have special laws to maintain an industry that is now NO LONGER NECCESARY?

    in short, simply tell RIAA and thier "industry" to fuck off and die like any normal, non-innovating dinosaur industry should. stand up & flip the bird. I'm still am waiting to get a CnD from them.

    • Uh, no, the fact that the market will bear what the record industry charges is what sustains these "artificially inflated prices".

      Go pick up a basic economics book, and realize that physical items aren't the only things that cost money to produce.
    • The cost of physically duplicating and distributing music was never the primary cost for a record company. The real costs are:

      1) Studio time + full collection of support staff
      2) Marketing the band

      The model for music is this:

      1) Bands make money selling expense tickets to live performances

      2) In general people will only pay expensive ticket prices to see bands they like a lot

      3a) Understanding that behavior changes belief getting people to purchase an expensive album/CD greatly increases the customer'

  • Letter of the law (Score:5, Informative)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @05:14AM (#5860566) Journal
    First, read the DMCA (might be an idea to get help from a sympathetic lawyer to translate from legalese). Make sure you are 100% compliant. See if the letter is. Specifically, (according to chillingeffects.org [chillingeffects.org]) the letter has to contain:
    • The name, address, and electronic signature of the complaining party [512(c)(3)(A)(i)]
    • The infringing materials and their Internet location [512(c)(3)(A)(ii-iii)]
    • Sufficient information to identify the copyrighted works [512(c)(3)(A)(iv)]
    • A statement by the owner that it has a good faith belief that there is no legal basis for the use of the materials complained of [512(c)(3)(A)(v)]
    • A statement of the accuracy of the notice and, under penalty of perjury, that the complaining party is authorized to act on the behalf of the owner. [512(c)(3)(A)(vi)]
    It may well be that the letters are not fully compliant. Usually they don't sign these because the complainant isn't the RIAA. See what happens if you respond asking for a compliant letter.

    It may be that they do include a signature, in which case you're up the creek. Also it is essential that you are compliant with te provisions since two can play at that game.

    • Re:Letter of the law (Score:5, Interesting)

      by _bug_ ( 112702 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @12:02PM (#5862410) Journal
      . Usually they don't sign these because the complainant isn't the RIAA. See what happens if you respond asking for a compliant letter.

      This is exactly what the college I work for does. We receive dozens of e-mails a week from RIAA representatives or people working on their behalf. Not once has one of these e-mails contained an electronic signature. What we do is reply to the sender stating we can take no action because their letter is incomplete under the DMCA.

      This has been going on for over a year now.

      We have yet to get a single response back.
      • My comment was based on another Slashdot comment. It was probably yours. I felt I should share since not everyone posts in the sections.

      • Re:Letter of the law (Score:3, Interesting)

        by moncyb ( 456490 )

        You're not getting a respose because they're probably using a bot to find "infringing files" (meaning it has a filename with the same word as one of their works), and the bot is sending the emails. The lights are on, but nobody is home. I bet if you investigated those complaints, the computers wouldn't even have half the works they're claiming.

  • Tell the RIAA that the university has fine upstanding students of good character and the files are probably shared legitimately. The students are merely using the P2P networks as file backups.

    Unless RIAA can prove that the students do not have the original CDs (by raiding the students' dorms with a warrant, perhaps), I don't see why the RIAA should blatantly assume that the students are doing something illegal.

    The university can create a private P2P network where only the students can have access rights

  • Let me get this straight. Your students are using your network to commit a crime. (My point here has nothing to do with whether it should be illegal, the point is, it IS illegal.) As an administrator and employee for your univiersity, you are now going around asking people how to help your students commit the crime without getting caught. I just have one question: does your employees realize they have a walking, talking big-ass-lawsuit magnet working for them? If you worked for me, my only hope to miti
  • At a land grant university in my state, we use Packeteer Packetshaper to maintain sane bandwidth for P2P apps. It analyzes every packet at the application layer which travels in and out of the outside world pipe, and only allows P2P through if nothing else is in need of the bandwidth.

    If you want to stop RIAA intervention...good luck. At our university, there is an internal sharing hub set up (blocks outside IPs), but people still manage to get caught, for better or for worse.

    I've been pushing FreeNet [freenetproject.org] a

  • I expect that this will be a big topic of discussion at this year's ResNet conference [ferris.edu]. On the tentative list of programs there are several programs on this topic and I know of at least one BOF on it, too. We've spent a lot of time in previous years discussing this issue. It keeps coming back and getting higher and higher on our list of priorities...like a hydra whose heads grow back in pairs after we cut one off.


    Kevin

  • How to stop attracting attention? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ccady ( 569355 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @09:56AM (#5861523) Journal

    ... we just want to get the RIAA off our backs. How do other university IT departments educate students to stop attracting the RIAA's attention? ...

    Students keep smoking pot in their dorm rooms. The cops keep telling us it's not legal. How do other universities educate their students in not getting caught?

  • Options (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Friday May 02, 2003 @09:58AM (#5861536) Homepage
    1. Throttle P2P traffic until it is unusably slow. The number of students using it will diminish, and those with real need to access such a network will still be able to. (It's not a violation of free speech if we force you to talk reeeeeeeeeeeeeeealllllllllyyyyy ssssssssllllllloooooowwwwwwllllllyyyyyy).

    2. Block off P2P traffic to the world outside of the campus network.

    3. Find out what your legal obligations are to the RIAA, and satisfy them. Use form letters wherever appropriate.

    4. Punish students.

    You're not going to be able to convince students to stop trading files willingly. Our university was full of people trading MP3 files in the Pre-Napster days. Attempts to curb such behavior were impossible due to the intersection of the percieved anonymity of the internet, the percieved injustices perpetuated by the record companies against the artists, a sense of entitlement due to record company pricing abuses, and a general desire to have more music on a college student's budget. The risk is low, the activity is not only morally justified but is a moral crusade, and the results are overwhelmingly positive for the student with minimal effort.

    To counteract these 4 factors, record companies have been trying to flood the network, justify their pricing scheme, justify their treatment of the artists, and (recently) increase the risk to students. None of the above have been effective in convincing students to change their behavior. The various P2P networks are too large to flood with junk data, their pricing structure makes them one of the most grossly profitable industries in the US, the artists themselves complain about the treatment they recieve with many major acts filing for bankruptcy, and the RIAA has been hesitant to bring down the PR nightmare that full-scale prosecution of students and navy shipmen would create.

    The best alternative to pirating copyrighted music is turning students on to public-domain or freely distributed music which a number of artists encourage as a form of advertising for live shows. But sadly the best place to find works from those artists are on P2P networks, and so the activity comes full circle.

    Throttle them or block them... In this case until legal and social options are explored at a higher level, the best solution is technological.
  • 1. Stop listening to Britney Spears and other market driven crap. Trust me, when you are older you will have a hard time believing you ever liked that crap (disco music any one?)

    2. Find indie bands that make their music available on the net and support them (tip jar, tell your friends, buy the t-shirt, go to their concerts when they come to town).

    3. Short record labels' stock. They don't get it and will be left behind just like the old rail monopolies were left behind by highway trucking companies.

    4. And
    • I'm older. When I was in JHS/HS I mainly listened to classic rock. Today I love it when 80's music comes on the radio. One of the nice things about being older is you don't have to worry about being cool.
      • When I was in JHS/HS I mainly listened to classic rock.

        Some ot if survived and became classic, but other stuff around the time was quite forgettable, i.e. spandau ballet, culture club, phil collins, madona, cindy lauper....

        • In the 1980's classic rock meant 60's-70's stuff. Jefferson Airplane, Pink Floyd, Rolling Stones, Eagles....

          What I'm saying is during the days of Cindy Lauper I listened to that stuff now I'd rather hear Cindy.

          • I get it now. Still don't you think that one of the reasons you (and me for that matter) find 80s music on the radio acceptable is that is has been culled significantly?

            • Yes; that's probably the reason I liked classic rock. During the 1980's you got the best 2% of the 70's rather than the whole range of the 1980's music. And also I only hear the "girls just wanna have fun" 1x every 3 months, rather than 3x every day.
  • Stop stealing music, you inconsiderate, selfish moron.

    Go buy it from Apple, instead. ;D
  • Perhaps try educating your users that some file sharing is illegal. Tell them breaking the law is against University Policy and if they are caught doing illegal file sharing they will be personally at risk. Hold them accountable for their actions. The average starting age of a college student is 18 years old with makes them legally an adult. If they are willfully breaking the law, they should understand they can be held accountable for their actions. If they do not agree with the law they should resort
    • I try not to, but my ears won't stop listening. They hear everything. How do I make my ears DMCA compliant? I tried earplugs, they don't help much. IS Britney Spears guilty of cirumvention if she gets through?
  • Another way you could get the RIAA off your back: throw away IP anonymity. Give each student a static address, give RIAA an IP-to-name-and-snailmail-address translation table once so they can contact people themselves, and then you don't have to be the middleman anymore. Problem solved, time freed so you can get back to work on more important things.

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