Educating Users/Students on Reducing Exposure to the RIAA 115
An anonymous reader asks: "I work for a medium-sized university (25K students), and have been asked to come up with ideas on how to reduce our exposure to the RIAA. Our head of IT gets 50 to 100 emails from the RIAA every week, complaining about IP addresses where P2P applications offer copyrighted songs for download. We don't want to firewall off P2P applications completely, we just want to get the RIAA off our backs. How do other university IT departments educate students to stop attracting the RIAA's attention? Thanks for any war stories you might be able to share !"
Have you tried (Score:1, Troll)
Ok, try that and get back to me. I wanna see how this pans out.
Re:Have you tried (Score:3, Insightful)
So watch them before the RIAA do, and make a big deal about it. If you don't want to go public that's fine, but make sure all the students know that the law could be watching as easily as you were. Also, if handled right, you can come off as the good guy.
Re:Have you tried being a retard? clearly.. (Score:3, Interesting)
At my university... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:At my university... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:At my university... (Score:2, Insightful)
The 'consensus model' could suck real bad as things unravel. Probably will.
Re:At my university... (Score:1)
<scream>nooooooooo</scream>
On a more serious note I dont think that will ever be a major problem as most P2P apps allow you to limit your upload bandwidth.
The worst are those that appear to share but cancel any downloads you begin.
Re:At my university... (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't think that's what the RIAA would like to see happen?
If anything is going to be the "death" of P2P I think it'll be that. The casual user will probably stop sharing after one threatening letter from an ISP. People already run mods to the P2P apps which shut down downloads by leechers. Eventually you'll have a few brave souls willing to play dodgeball with their ISPs (o
Re:At my university... (Score:2)
Re:At my university... (Score:2)
Re:At my university... (Score:1)
Re:At my university... (Score:5, Interesting)
Oh, that's the most effective thing the RIAA could do. Forget suing users. Convince universities (especially Unis) and maybe a cable ISP or two to cap uploads at 2GB per month in their base packages, which would effectively force users on those nets to disable uploading or throttle uploading to 500 bytes/second, forcing more of the upload traffic onto users on non-capped providers.
Because of the bandwidth spike on the non-capped providers, more of those will start to implement capping of some sort, or those sharing will see how much of their bandwidth is being eaten up by KaZaa et al and deactivate their sharing. The end result is that most of the uploading will be done by people who are leasig dedicated servers hooked up to T3's. These are naturally easier to go after (and there's a lot fewer of them).
Now if only the *AA had the brains to do it...
Re:At my university... (Score:2)
Re:At my university... (Score:2)
It's not like the students are paying for it... well they maybe pay a small fee with tuition, but certainly not as much as say a cable subscription.
Re:At my university... (Score:2)
Why should they be any different, incedentally I'm not sugegsting the university pick up the tab, students should be charged for their internet usage if this is not already the case (It is a my university).
What I'd do... (Score:5, Insightful)
Find out who the ISP(s?) is(are?) for the RIAA and block them with the firewall.
(Yeah, I know it won't work, but man that'd sure feel good.)
Re:Youre right. (Score:1)
You don't buy CD's because they want to make it so can't play CD's you buy on your PC. So you steal CD's now. So why are you pissed, you don't buy CD's anymore anyway! (HEY! I can't play what I don't buy anyways!) You've lost your reason for argument.
I know I'll get modded up for being repetative, but oh well.. If the trends continue, bands like Fleetwood Mac will never have survived past 'Rumours'.
Re:What I'd do... (Score:4, Interesting)
1) buying the CD is legal
2) making the copy on your own computer is legal only if you agree to limit certain activities your computer engages in
3) When you don't limit those activities you violate (2).
Re:What I'd do... (Score:2)
Goody two goody two goody goody two shoes!
Live a little! Go commit some crimes you boring person!
Re:What I'd do... (Score:2)
My post addressed your original claim. I'll take the above response as a crude concession on the factual / legal issues.
Re:What I'd do... (Score:2)
Life isn't fair. You are going to die a sad and boring person. *sniff* You must be a musician. I hear McDonalds is hiring.
Re:What I'd do... (Score:1)
how about using ssl for a start. what about secured remailers?
the requirements:
1) a user should not be able to get IP specific information on other users
2) both uploading and downloading should be handled by some sort of encryption (pick one!)
this should be enough to at least start a discussion as to why there has yet to be a secured p2
Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:5, Funny)
>50 to 100 emails from the RIAA every week
Surely getting this much unsolicited mail from a single source is tantamount to spam. If it's all from the same sender, or if the content is more-or-less identical, then it should be fairly trivial to block it.
Re:Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:2, Informative)
Don't burn any courier-delivered registered mail unopened, either. It sucks what can result from that.
Re:Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:2)
Re:Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:1)
The problem with that is that those emails are considered legal notices and so forth. Essentially, you block at your own risk, that risk being that, since you nuked the notice, you fail to comply with the applicable laws.
I'm assuming they're using DMCA provisions in the letter, which basically means take the host down or you take responsibility for any infringements committed by that host. The RIAA then inventories what infringements are going on and sends a snail mail courier to the president of the un
Re:Spam, spam, spam, wonderful spam! (Score:2)
Digital signatures (Score:1)
How can it be a legal notice with no signature?
----- BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE -----
Re:Digital signatures (Score:2)
Re:Digital signatures (Score:2, Informative)
Are digital signatures legally binding?
In those states where digital signatures are not yet binding, it soon will be. This page [rechten.uvt.nl] lists the legal status of digital signatures in all sorts of jurisdictions. On the page, pull down the menu and select "United States [All States]".
And you still have no way to guarantee delivery
Perhaps SMTP does not guarantee delivery, but the instant message protocols already do. Future instant message protocols will allow for cryptographically signed communication.
Re:Explain how to set up a local p2p network (Score:3, Informative)
Ideas to throw the RIAA off ya scent (Score:5, Funny)
2. Bounce the emails from RIAA.
3. Send them pictures of big signs in your labs with the heading "Copyright Warning".
4. Pretend that you don't know what P2P is and so keep asking them questions.
5. Claim that their emails contain virii.
6. Agree to "help" them survey the extend of the problem for 6 months then claim that after 6 months you have new staff and no one knew about that survey.
7. Claim that you have a lot of students researching the murky world of P2P.
8. Firewall of the common P2P ports during office hours.
9. Explain to the RIAA that you are forced to use Windows and can't lock down the machines/network as you like.
10. Register you entire domain in some pacific island country and have a funky country code.
11. Tell them to get stuffed!
Re:Ideas to throw the RIAA off ya scent (Score:2)
thanks for helping me spew orange juice all over my screen!
CUT IT! (Score:1)
well, may be you should just cut the p2p connection to the internet anyway, if you dont share to the world riaa wont bother you...
so you got annoying emails from riaa?! just apply a judge request about spamming, no, better register their email to watchmybigtits.com -- after all we hate them, but they're just humans... (and i prefer them looking to my sister's tits than in my cd library)
and even better, tell your students how to use irc and ftp, that's HOW one shou
Re:CUT IT! (Score:1)
And they watch irc also, and gnutella, and kazza, and just about anything else that you can share files with.
Re:CUT IT! (Score:1)
So they watch IRC, do they? Pray tell which of the many hundreds of networks are they watching?
That gives me and idea... Why not set up a campus-wide IRC server so that students can share their mp3's locally, and reduce the amount of traffic to the outside world. I have never messed much with IRC servers, but it should be easy to restrict access to those with campus-specific hostmasks. Then you
Mini ISP? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Mini ISP? (Score:1)
This probably is the best solution, though. Don't be malicious in your email, but inform them that you are not responsible for what individuals do on your network. Let them handle the end user if they want to.
Re:Mini ISP? (Score:2)
Re:Mini ISP? (Score:1)
Re:Mini ISP? (Score:3, Informative)
I don't understand why anyone would give advice to ignore the law. I don't think the university wants to get sued for violating the DMCA. Educate your users, throttle back P2P bandwidth, and respond to DMCA notices as directed by the law. Tell your students that legal uses of P2P will be allowed, but copyright infri
Plaintiffs have DMCA obligations too (Score:2)
Hmmm... (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems a fair way to do it to me. Anything else might be underhanded, and would make more work for you.
Re:Hmmm... (Score:1)
In that case, I guess you'd best be cutting off their connection (as a sysadmin), refunding them the unused portion of their internet fees, and telling them to get cable modem (or whatever else is availble).
Oh well. I guess that explains why I hate college administration so much.
Big problem with that... (Score:2)
Re:Big problem with that... (Score:2)
If an ISP isn't a common carrier [bldrdoc.gov], then what the hell are they?
I know cable broadband companies try to say they aren't, but they want to restrict what their users do--it's not an arguement based on fact.
Common carrier or bridge? (Score:2)
When I send a letter out, the mailperson takes it out of my hands and carries it via this route or that.
When I send an email, my email software barks at the ethernet port hoping for a useful reply. All the ISP does is route traffic according to well defined rules that they have no control over.
Or say I use web-based mail. Whose ISP is responsible? Mine? The Web Mail's ISP? The Receiver's ISP?
You could always "protect" your traffic. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:You could always "protect" your traffic. (Score:1, Funny)
enough already (Score:1, Funny)
Thats not the way to handle this. (Score:2)
Sheesh, dont you people ever learn from watching mystery movies?!?
maybe (Score:5, Insightful)
the reality of the p2p black market in music is that the cost of the "music" product is artificailly inflated to hundreds of times the real market value because of the (now eliminated) historical distribution controls in tapes/cd/etc. the cost disparity between the selling price and the market price both CREATED and MAINTAINS the black market. it's not rocket science here folks.
the ridiculousness of current copyright laws and the teeth of the DMCA are the only thing maintaining the profits by which these people harass everyone else. why should we have special laws to maintain an industry that is now NO LONGER NECCESARY?
in short, simply tell RIAA and thier "industry" to fuck off and die like any normal, non-innovating dinosaur industry should. stand up & flip the bird. I'm still am waiting to get a CnD from them.
Re:maybe (Score:2)
Go pick up a basic economics book, and realize that physical items aren't the only things that cost money to produce.
Re:maybe (Score:2)
1) Studio time + full collection of support staff
2) Marketing the band
The model for music is this:
1) Bands make money selling expense tickets to live performances
2) In general people will only pay expensive ticket prices to see bands they like a lot
3a) Understanding that behavior changes belief getting people to purchase an expensive album/CD greatly increases the customer'
Letter of the law (Score:5, Informative)
It may be that they do include a signature, in which case you're up the creek. Also it is essential that you are compliant with te provisions since two can play at that game.
Re:Letter of the law (Score:5, Interesting)
This is exactly what the college I work for does. We receive dozens of e-mails a week from RIAA representatives or people working on their behalf. Not once has one of these e-mails contained an electronic signature. What we do is reply to the sender stating we can take no action because their letter is incomplete under the DMCA.
This has been going on for over a year now.
We have yet to get a single response back.
Re:Letter of the law (Score:1)
Re:Letter of the law (Score:3, Interesting)
You're not getting a respose because they're probably using a bot to find "infringing files" (meaning it has a filename with the same word as one of their works), and the bot is sending the emails. The lights are on, but nobody is home. I bet if you investigated those complaints, the computers wouldn't even have half the works they're claiming.
presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Score:1)
Unless RIAA can prove that the students do not have the original CDs (by raiding the students' dorms with a warrant, perhaps), I don't see why the RIAA should blatantly assume that the students are doing something illegal.
The university can create a private P2P network where only the students can have access rights
Re:presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Score:2)
Re:presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Score:1)
And hey, how about raiding George Bush's house to see if he has hidden any mp3s? According to Bushism, you don't need to produce any WMD evidence to wage a war in Iraq. So maybe this gives anyone the right to raid the White House for illegal mp3s.
Re:presumed innocent until proven guilty. (Score:1)
Aiding and Abetting (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:Aiding and Abetting (Score:1)
A couple of ideas (Score:1)
If you want to stop RIAA intervention...good luck. At our university, there is an internal sharing hub set up (blocks outside IPs), but people still manage to get caught, for better or for worse.
I've been pushing FreeNet [freenetproject.org] a
This year's ResNet conference (Score:2)
I expect that this will be a big topic of discussion at this year's ResNet conference [ferris.edu]. On the tentative list of programs there are several programs on this topic and I know of at least one BOF on it, too. We've spent a lot of time in previous years discussing this issue. It keeps coming back and getting higher and higher on our list of priorities...like a hydra whose heads grow back in pairs after we cut one off.
Kevin
How to stop attracting attention? (Score:5, Insightful)
Students keep smoking pot in their dorm rooms. The cops keep telling us it's not legal. How do other universities educate their students in not getting caught?
Re:How to stop attracting attention? (Score:2)
Last I heard, marijuana was still legal.
Re:How to stop attracting attention? (Score:2)
This couldn't be detected from outside (although it would still be possible to find out about it) and it would slash thier bandwidth bills.
Just my $0.02,
Michael
Options (Score:3, Insightful)
2. Block off P2P traffic to the world outside of the campus network.
3. Find out what your legal obligations are to the RIAA, and satisfy them. Use form letters wherever appropriate.
4. Punish students.
You're not going to be able to convince students to stop trading files willingly. Our university was full of people trading MP3 files in the Pre-Napster days. Attempts to curb such behavior were impossible due to the intersection of the percieved anonymity of the internet, the percieved injustices perpetuated by the record companies against the artists, a sense of entitlement due to record company pricing abuses, and a general desire to have more music on a college student's budget. The risk is low, the activity is not only morally justified but is a moral crusade, and the results are overwhelmingly positive for the student with minimal effort.
To counteract these 4 factors, record companies have been trying to flood the network, justify their pricing scheme, justify their treatment of the artists, and (recently) increase the risk to students. None of the above have been effective in convincing students to change their behavior. The various P2P networks are too large to flood with junk data, their pricing structure makes them one of the most grossly profitable industries in the US, the artists themselves complain about the treatment they recieve with many major acts filing for bankruptcy, and the RIAA has been hesitant to bring down the PR nightmare that full-scale prosecution of students and navy shipmen would create.
The best alternative to pirating copyrighted music is turning students on to public-domain or freely distributed music which a number of artists encourage as a form of advertising for live shows. But sadly the best place to find works from those artists are on P2P networks, and so the activity comes full circle.
Throttle them or block them... In this case until legal and social options are explored at a higher level, the best solution is technological.
Four easy steps: (Score:2)
2. Find indie bands that make their music available on the net and support them (tip jar, tell your friends, buy the t-shirt, go to their concerts when they come to town).
3. Short record labels' stock. They don't get it and will be left behind just like the old rail monopolies were left behind by highway trucking companies.
4. And
Re:Four easy steps: (Score:2)
Re:Four easy steps: (Score:2)
Some ot if survived and became classic, but other stuff around the time was quite forgettable, i.e. spandau ballet, culture club, phil collins, madona, cindy lauper....
Re:Four easy steps: (Score:2)
What I'm saying is during the days of Cindy Lauper I listened to that stuff now I'd rather hear Cindy.
Re:Four easy steps: (Score:2)
I get it now. Still don't you think that one of the reasons you (and me for that matter) find 80s music on the radio acceptable is that is has been culled significantly?
Re:Four easy steps: (Score:2)
All the education you'll ever need (Score:2)
Go buy it from Apple, instead.
educate the users and uphold the law (Score:1)
"Don't steal music" (Score:2)
Re:"Don't steal music" (Score:2)
Give up and win (Score:2)
Re:RIAA Netblocks (Score:1)