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Body Adornments and a Career? 174

Posted by Cliff from the self-expression-vs-employment dept.
termilitor asks: "I was thinking about decorating myself with a tatoo. The only argument that holds me back is whether this will affect my career of a mathematician / computer programmer negatively. I would like to ask readers of the Slashdot if they have such experiences, including other types of self decoration, like body piercings and dyeing hair." It's always important to look professional when in the work-environment. The big question, of course, is how many of you believe such things are mutually-exclusive. Wearing a tattoo is a non-issue with the right clothes, but what about piercings and hair coloring? Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?
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Body Adornments and a Career? More

Body Adornments and a Career?

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  • no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sydlexic ( 563791 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:45PM (#6250142)
    Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?

    most employers take a dim view of self-expression. at least this is true in most of corporate america.

    • If you're a woman... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by turgid ( 580780 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @03:06AM (#6251467) Journal
      If you're a woman you can probably get away with it. Mnay traditional, large companies are very strict about how men dress and have their hair etc. but apply much less rigorous rules to their female staff. It's a horrendous and blatant display of double-standards and anti-male discrimination. Maybe it is a relic from the days when people only considrered males to be serious employees and women to be less important? Who knows. I used to work for one of them. When I left I grew my hair. It's half way down my back now and I'll only lose it naturally to alopecia! Finding a good professional job has not been a problem. I think you'll find that the people (companies) who are most successful are the ones that are nicest to work for, and treat their staff with dignity and respect and as individuals.
      • I've lived overseas for a while now, and it is most refreshing to see beautiful women who don't mutilate themselves with nose holes or tattoos. Pure, whole, untouched skin is far more sexy than any butterfly on the ankle or bookend flourish on the small of the back.

  • Think long, think hard. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Fished ( 574624 ) * <amphigory@gma[ ]com ['il.' in gap]> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:45PM (#6250145)
    Are you really sure that you want to permanently alter your body? REALLY sure? There is a *reason* they call it permanent. And, for the most part, body "adornments" are pretty stinking ugly. Especially cheek and eye-brow piercings ... ugh. And tattoos are rarely very artistically executed - (there are, of course, exceptions.)
    • And tattoos are rarely very artistically executed

      Spoken like a true bigot. You obviously [internatio...tooart.com] aren't [newmexicotattoo.com] looking [dasilvaphoto.com] very [sanctuarytattoo.com] hard [eurotattoo.co.nz]

      • Re:Think long, think hard. (Score:4, Insightful)

        by falsification ( 644190 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:31PM (#6250466) Journal
        And tattoos are rarely very artistically executed

        Spoken like a true bigot.

        Ah. So now one must have a politically correct sense of the aesthetic, or one is considered a bigot, a moral degenerate who has no part in civilized society? Thank you for opening our minds to this startling, revolutionary insight. We are now liberated.

        Ha.

        He just expressed an opinion. If you can't take other people's opinions, you should avoid the Internet.

      • Who cares what the tat looks like a few days out of the studio, under the proper lighting?

        There are 30-60 year old people everywhere with fading ugly blotches on the skin that they thought were great when they got them.

        A tattoo just screams insecurity. "I've gotta do something permanent to my skin, to show that I'm really serious about 'whatever' culture that I'm involved with right now."

      • Whether or not they are artistic is hardly the point. human flesh is hardly an appropriate canvas for a civilised person. It's all too obvious that the most enthusiastic wearers imagine they are making themselves more attractive with all these piercings and paintings, judging by the proportion of uglies within their ranks. But it's just a form of self-mutilation and in my opinion it makes you look like you have mental health problems. And there's no bigger turn-off as far as the opposite sex is concerned.
        • > And there's no bigger turn-off as far as the opposite sex is concerned.

          With the possible exception of smoking...
      • Those tatoos look like shit. If those poor tatoo "artists" didn't have skin to doodle on, they'd have to use black velvet or the cover of their third-hour study hall notebooks.

        I'm sure there are good looking tatoos, on good looking people, appreciated by people with artistic sensibility. You've managed to prove that this simply isn't always the case.

  • I heard it said... (Score:4, Funny)

    by hitzroth ( 60178 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:47PM (#6250156)
    Unless you're planning on getting "Poor Impulse Control" plastered on your forehead, don't worry about it. People expect mathematicians to be eccentric. In fact, mathematicians who aren't eccentric make regular people uneasy.

  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by psyconaut ( 228947 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:49PM (#6250171)
    I've run a consulting business since '94 with a brief break as CTO of a financial software company. I've died my hair a lot over the past 10 years, but never anything too crazy (it's been blonde, and also reddish brown).

    Both my tattoos and my piercings are concealed easily by business clothing. I *did* have a tongue piercing for a little while, but got rid of it.

    People were always amazed that I had tattoos and piercings when they found out....I guess most people assume that people who have them will have them somewhat visibly.

    I guess part of your question revolves around how you carry yourself, too. I've always been a little 'larger than life'...I think if you're not prepared to put yourself 'out there', then you might be right thinking that you could get some negative feedback.

    -psy

  • A happy medium (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PD ( 9577 ) * <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:51PM (#6250188) Homepage Journal
    If you're going to dye your hair purple, then find employers that will hire people with purple hair. Likewise, if you like to wear a suit to work every day, don't work for a bunch of people with purple hair.
    I mean, DUH.

    • Re:A happy medium (Score:5, Funny)

      by biglig2 ( 89374 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @05:19AM (#6251820) Homepage Journal
      It's like that great old story about the time Apple and IBM had a meeting, and the Apple guys turned up in suits, and the IBM guys in jeans and t-shirts, each trying to conform to the other.

      Is your tattoo going to be easy to conceal? I mean, a swastika on the forehead, almost certainly a bad idea.

  • nice ink, grandpa (Score:5, Insightful)

    by kometes ( 64603 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:51PM (#6250189) Homepage Journal
    Imagine for a moment that you are wearing a leisure suit and a mullet.

    Now imagine that they are permanent.

    That being said, if you are good and have a good manager, then it won't matter. However, you may have to leave an otherwise satifactory job because of other's stupidity.

  • "professional" really bugs me (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Muggins the Mad ( 27719 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:55PM (#6250210)

    This whole having to look "professional" thing really bugs me.

    I really don't see the link between dressing in a suit and being *competent*. I don't comprehend it. And while I don't like tattoos and piercings, I can't understand that someone with a full body tattoo and a green mohawk is automatically considered incompetent and useless.

    But in the corporate world it seems to be the way things are.

    It's a sick world.

    - Muggins the Mad

    • Re:"professional" really bugs me (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ObviousGuy ( 578567 ) <ObviousGuy@hotmail.com> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:29PM (#6250448) Homepage Journal
      It's easy to understand. Follow me.

      In life you have an Image. This Image is how you conduct yourself and how you are perceived by others. Many factors including how you dress, how you smell, how you behave, and how you look all come together to form your Image.

      In life, it is one of the most important things that you will carry with you everywhere. It is the first thing that people who meet you will grasp about you. The so-called "first impression" that someone gets of you is based on your Image rather than your abilities.

      There isn't any way to neglect your Image. Every action you take shapes it and molds it, so even if you stop taking showers (for example) you have only shaped your Image towards that image. You can "improve" your Image by doing things that impress other people like combing your hair or brushing your teeth or wearing a suit. Likewise you can "damage" your Image by putting giant piercings in your ear or not showering for weeks. The "improve" and "damage" are in quotes because it is up to the individual as to what kind of Image he wants to project, these examples are only using the most general attitudes as a basis for determining Image bettering and Image damaging.

      So when a business looks at a person who has "damaged" his Image, it is easy to make a quick judgement call about the person. He does not have enough willpower or drive or ability to take care of one of his most important possessions, so how can he be trusted to control some part of the company (someone else's important possession)?

      If you decide that your Image should show that you are a slacker (through uncleanliness) or that you wish to separate yourself from the mainstream (through piercings or extravagant and obvious tattooing), then you must prepare yourself for rejection when attempting to enter the world of business where these things are generally frowned upon.

      The only way around this is to build a reputation so that people can have a preconceived notion of your abilities even before they meet your for the first time. A good reputation is many times better than a good Image. However, a good reputation is many times harder to create than a good Image.

      • Re:"professional" really bugs me (Score:4, Insightful)

        by msuzio ( 3104 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @01:18AM (#6251054) Homepage
        I don't disagree with most of your point, because let's face it, first impressions are important, and preconceptions are a fact of the human experience (if I had to start at Square One in solving all situations, I could never get anything done... so I must use previous inputs to the system to guide any new experience).

        But I don't think a 'reputation' in the conventional sense is the only way to get around this. I also think confidence and a good self-image help a lot too. I know I can meet people for the first time, totally cold, and usually sway them over to trust me in my field -- because *I* know I know my shit, and I know I can convince them of that... so before we even start an interaction, I've already decided on how I want to be seen. If I waver in that conviction, then my chances of being able to be Myself and also be the person they want me to be (Super Professional Man) go way down. :-).

        So, my best advice -- love yourself deeply, and convince yourself that you truly are All That, and you will command the respect you desire. It's all very Dale Carnegie... you think a salesman relies on a previous reputation? He can't, he's always meeting new people he has to make a good impression on from the start. So just sell yourself!
      • This marks the first /. posting I have ever saved offline. Thanks for the inspiration.

  • The happiest medium... (Score:4, Funny)

    by stienman ( 51024 ) <adavis@@@ubasics...com> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:56PM (#6250217) Homepage Journal
    "Can a happy medium exist between self-expression and the professional environment?"

    Of course. But then, she'd better be a well paid psychic if she's truly going to be a happy medium.

    Why all the wierd ask slashdots lately?

    -Adam

  • Self Expression (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Zach Garner ( 74342 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @10:56PM (#6250221)
    Many of the people I know don't use their tattoos as a means of self expression. Instead, it some how seems that the tatoo uses the person as a means for self expression.

    In other words, everything in their life revolves around their tattoos or piercings. It's all about how society doesn't understand me because I've got "body art". Or I didn't get that job, or get a date with that girl/guy, or, oh my god my life is complete shit but at least I'm expressing myself because I've got body art!

    Anyways. I also know quite a few people who do have simple tattoos or piercings that dont get in the way of a normal social life (yes, i'm making an assumption about the definition of normal). You don't have to have "FUCK YOU" tattooed across your forehead.

    If the tattoo you are wanting makes you concerned that you won't get a job at IBM or Sun (much less SCO), then you may very well regret it later in life.

    • Re:Self Expression (Score:5, Interesting)

      by NexusTw1n ( 580394 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @03:49AM (#6251592) Journal
      Good post.

      I worked for an IT company that was sold to IBM, with all employees becoming IBMers.

      A large portion of our firm, including me, were young and "hip". I had a nose and eyebrow ring, others had dyed hair, wild haircuts, or tattoos.

      We stuck out like a sore thumb in IBM, a company that suits the description of borg-like grey drones far more than MS does.

      After around 2 years it became clear people with less talent but better suits were getting promotions we should be getting.

      Most of us started to clean up our image to get promotions, the ones that didn't ended up in dead end jobs blaming society rather than their inability to wear a long sleeved shirt to cover up their tats.

      Self expression is a great thing, as long as whatever you do can be covered up, or will heal when you get bored with it. Many companies don't care what you look like, many, especially bigger blue chip corps do care. At some point you may want to work for such a company even if you don't now, so don't do anything too drastically permanent to your appearance

      I really can't see how a tattoo can affect your career, unless showering with the CEO is mandatory, or you're planning to decorate your forehead or hands with neo nazi slogans.

      • A long time ago, I had a chance to work with a former-salesman turned development-manager at IBM about the dress code in the company. To set the image in your mind, IBM had announced that it was relaxing the dress code a bit for employees who did not meet customers on a regular basis (i.e. the people he was managing), yet he was still wearing the white shirt, suit and tie.

        He reason for sticking with the suit and tie made perfect sense to me (paraphrased version because it has been 14 years since I had thi

      • IBM varies a lot from office to office.

        I work for IBM. Right now I'm wearing jeans, a Paul Frank T-shirt saying "I'm not a beaver, I'm an otter", and I have black titanium circular barbell earrings with pointy "devil horn" ends. I've seen worse around here, too.

        Head down to IBM in Austin and you'll see people wearing shorts, sandals and hawaiian shirts.

        Now, on the other hand, if you work for IBM on Madison Avenue, or even go there to visit, you're expected to wear something at the smarter end of business
  • Click here [stalkingcat.net]. This guy is a software engineer that I recall doing temp contract gigs here and there. Furry fandom to the extreme, or following a tribal calling? You decide - he points to the latter, but expands on it.

    My wife and I know him. By every definition, eccentric, but overall a pretty cool cat.

  • Try to get tattooed with some nifty lines in C++ . If the code is longer, you may consider using larger body areas, like chest.
  • ...about what you can get away with, you should be looking at employers who'll value you for your professional expertise and not how you look. It'll work out better in the long run.

  • Acording to my parents (Score:3, Funny)

    by miyako ( 632510 ) <miyako AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:06PM (#6250283) Homepage Journal
    If you get a tattoo then you instantly become a social outcast. Your friends will hate you, you will never be able to find a job, even flipping burgers, and you'll never be able to find a signifigant other. Not only that but there is a 100% chance that you will contract hepatitis and of course two days after you get the tattoo you will become suicidal due to the intence depression you feel from having made such a big mistake.
    In all seriousness though, a tattoo shouldn't be a big deal as long as it is easily concealed by standard business atire.

  • Moronic (Score:3, Insightful)

    by duffbeer703 ( 177751 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:16PM (#6250342)
    The only problem with taking part in a fad like tatooing is that you need to live with it forever. Ten years from now, you are not likely to be with a crowd that still finds tatoos to be a "cool" thing.

    Even if you never grow up mentally, time and gravity will take it's toll, and your tatoo will turn into a black and blue smear. Tatoo removal people will be rich when all the girls putting giant butterflies on their backs and ass turn 40.

    Why don't you "express" yourself by coloring your hair purple or something. At least dye washes out eventually.

    • Re:Moronic (Score:3, Insightful)

      by 6hill ( 535468 )

      The only problem with taking part in a fad like tatooing is that you need to live with it forever. Ten years from now, you are not likely to be with a crowd that still finds tatoos to be a "cool" thing.

      Uh, pardon my French, but who the fsck cares? And besides, in my experience, one tends to gravitate unconsciously towards crowds that share common interests and mores -- not all my friends have tattoos, but somehow they all seem to be people who don't care one way or the other about other people's body ar

  • Just put a pi on your forehead. Everything will be fine. No one will think you're a mass murderer or anything.
    • Just put a pi on your forehead.

      If you're going to put something on your forehead, especially any letter from any alphabet, why not put an "H" on the center of your forehead and when you get interviewed, tell everyone your name is Rimmer and you can't touch anything because you're a hologram?
    • Unless you meet a single female mathmetician, you've just divided your existing low probability of getting laid by 3.14159...

      Seriously, while many girlies might think that a hunting-cat tat makes a guy look sexy, I think they'd find pi a little disattracting.

      Oh, and try to avoid tats with names too, unless you plan on continuously dating girls by the same name should the existing relationship break up. Getting one of those "mom" heart tattoos, but replacing "mom" with "my boss" might just help your job

  • Forever is a long time... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by cookd ( 72933 ) <.moc.onuj. .ta. .koocsalguod.> on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:23PM (#6250407) Journal
    Everybody is different, and I suppose I wander in more conservative circles. But nearly everybody I've ever met who has a tattoo regrets it. Several of them are saving for laser tattoo removal. Remember that while the tattoo may express who you are today, you will be a different person 20 years from now. The tattoo might not express who you will be, but it will still be there expressing itself.

    Perhaps there are better ways of expressing yourself. I mean, what does dying your hair or getting a piercing say? Everybody is going to interpret it differently, and many of them will get the wrong meaning. If the idea is to make yourself look a certain way, then I suppose it works. But if the idea is to communicate something, you probably could find a more effective and accurate way to do it.

  • No Prob (Score:3, Funny)

    by Markus Registrada ( 642224 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:31PM (#6250471)
    Just etch a red pepper onto one or other of your buttocks and count yourself adorned.

    Anything more is a tool to help you filter out companies you wouldn't want to be a part of, anyway, without wasting too much time talking to them. Likewise potential mates, potential mates' parents, bands, river-rafting clubs, condo associations, military academies, supreme-judicial internships, churches, university faculties, and diplomatic appointments.

  • Never had a problem (Score:4, Informative)

    by msuzio ( 3104 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:37PM (#6250524) Homepage
    I've worn varying amounts of earrings in my ears for years (16 years, 11 of them in 'the real world' of business). Never had a problem. Let me repeat:

    NEVER. EVER. EVER.

    Don't listen to anyone at all who disses this. They underestimate how much people will put up with if you are confident and very good at what you do. I rate the confidence as more key than anything else. If you don't treat it as strange or unusual, people will put up with quite a bit.

    Just expect to always be singled out as 'the strange one' in the department. For me, I never cared... either way. I don't get in people's faces with something assinine like "oh! look, look, I'm *different*". Especially since at this point I'm more part of the general crowd than anything :-). Maybe it helps to be in a creative field (computer consulting, but I worked many years at Ford Motor, so that's a pretty 'standard' environment)

    Now, a few cautions:

    1) If you get a tattoo, get something you *can* cover up or play down if you are so inclined. Facial tattoos are only for those who really, really don't mind standing out and making compromises due to people's narrow viewpoints. You probably will find you'll prefer it this way anyway... better to have something you can *choose* to share with the crowd at large, because there are times where you'll want to *not* make the tattoo the focus of attention.

    2) You will encounter dumb people. You may even encounter personal or career set-backs from this. It's always a chance. Assume that anything that happens like this is meant to be, and that you're better off not around those people or in that situation. If it's your mother crying over this, I suggest flowers and a hug and reassuring her that you're sorry you marked up the body she kept from harm all those years, but you were just expressing the creative side she always told you you had :-).

    3) As noted above, plan to be exceptional and very professional in your career. That will overcome any silly preconceptions most people might have. And yes, you can plan to be exceptional... It's pretty rare to be exceptional without putting some effort into that goal :-)

    4) Ask rec.arts.bodyart about this if you don't believe me. Tattooed, pierced, and otherly modified folks abound there. Many of them are very successful professionals, including my favorite librarian (hi Kate! I bet you're reading this!)

    ciao!
    • Another thing to consider is getting a temporary (henna sp?) tatoo and going about your daily life with it for a couple weeks.
      Did you feel comfy?
      Were you okay with the looks (if any)?

      Try it a few times in different places and see how you feel.

      I applaud your desire to make an informed decision, but if you can't carry it off yourself it will ALWAYS stand out in a negative fashion.

      Further more, as a programmer/analyst, I can say that the circumstances vary as to how appropriate it would be. The law firm I
    • Facial tattoos are only for those who really, really don't mind standing out and making compromises due to people's narrow viewpoints.

      Or for first officers on starships lost in the Delta Quadrant.

    • Re:Never had a problem (Score:5, Insightful)

      by GuyMannDude ( 574364 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @12:52AM (#6250949) Journal

      Don't listen to anyone at all who disses this. They underestimate how much people will put up with if you are confident and very good at what you do. I rate the confidence as more key than anything else. If you don't treat it as strange or unusual, people will put up with quite a bit.

      Fair enough. But if this guy is asking the slashdot crowd for feedback before getting body modification, I'm guessing he's not exactly oozing with self-confidence.

      GMD

    • Indeedy, but earrings are also usually considered more acceptable than other piercings. Some with some low-key tats - they can be covered, and if they don't involved anything overly offensive they're usually not too bad anyhow.

      IMHO, you can pierce yourself anywhere you please... but some things such as those *huge* ear spacers just give me shudders. And frankly, something like this [excite.com] is likely to get you an interview with an exorcist as opposed to a second job interview.

      And yeah, when my gramma looks at a

  • Think of it this way.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 1nv4d3r ( 642775 ) on Thursday June 19, 2003 @11:50PM (#6250611)
    The only argument that holds me back is whether this will affect my career of a mathematician / computer programmer negatively.

    I look at it this way: What are the chances it will affect your career positively? None, right? So, what your considering is a move that will, at best, not torpedo your career.

    The last time that choice wasn't obvious, I was 15 and did not yet know the sorrow of unemployment.
    • If all he wants to think of is his career, your comment might make sense. Hopefully, he is not yet a faceless drone of the collective, and is thinking of how this adornment might aid him in outwardly defining who he is as an individual.

      I mean, damn. People are too scared now of unemployment. If this guy knows his shit in his field(s), both of which are known for being a little 'out there', I think he has nothing to worry about.

      I can't believe you used the word 'torpedo'. Like his career hangs on whet
      • I mean, damn. People are too scared now of unemployment.

        People bloody well should be scared of unemployment. Not making money in a capitalist society is not usually a pleasant ride unless you're in the clergy (even then, a great many members of the clergy have to get day jobs). Add into that the fact that the majority of people will eventually be married and have kids. Unemployment isn't a real option if you've got to pay for rent/mortgage, utilities, etc. and then maintain the expense of children on t

        • *sigh*. See, again with the fear.

          Most of us would not want to be unemployed. Of course that is true. However, I see too many people now who are giving up too much, fearing too much, and knuckling under to "The Man" just because they are full of this fear.

          Look at the post I replied to. The poster implied that this guy is going to *ruin his life* if he gets a tattoo. That level of hyperbole is ridiculous. It just is not true... and to point to unemployment levels as a justification for this fear is ju
          • The poster implied that this guy is going to *ruin his life* if he gets a tattoo.

            It depends on what they want for themselves. In any of the companies I've worked in, there's a ceiling to the level of responsibility you can have if you don't fit the corporate mold. I think if you just want to keep your job and get your yearly wage increase, you can probably do fine with many (but not all) employers.

            Then, if you loose your job, and want another one, I think you'd be just about crazy to go interviewing
    • Refraining from doing something because it doesn't have a direct positive effect on career, or anything else for that matters, is really ignorant.

      If everything you do has to be a means for furthering your career, think about all the things you miss out on. I bet going to that [insert favorite band here] concert doesn't affect your career positively... Playing [insert game] a couple of hours a week? Eating that extra large McMenu? Drinking those 10+ beers every friday/saturday night? Hooking up with that gir

      • There's a difference between not doing something that MAY interfere with one's career and doing things that don't have an effect on one's career. If your career is important to you, then it makes sense not to do things which stand a chance of damaging it. That doesn't mean not doing things which don't effect it. (Always gotta be someone who thinks they're being clever by taking things too far.)

        As for getting a tat boosting one's self esteem: As someone who spent close to a decade working in residential
        • One of my points is that EVERYTHING you do might have an effect on your career, and a lot of other aspects of your life, positively or negatively. And only focusing on the negative is a sure way to never get anywhere!

          ...anyone who needs a tat or other body mod for self esteem has problems the body mod won't solve.

          Nobody said anything about needing a tatoo, but that doesn't mean it couldn't do something positive to your attitude. And as with so many other things it is important not to overdo it. Getting a

          • Boy, you're pretty good at what psychologists call projection -- accusing others of your own actions and feelings. There's such a thing as over-analyzing -- something people do when they spend too much time thinking their way through life instead of living it.

            I didn't take the time to pull out quotations, but there was a reference to "If you need a tattoo." That's where my comment came from.

            But, obviously I'm wrong, since you are clearly analyzing this at a MUCH deeper level than I could ever hope to.
  • tatoo yourself with the solution to Fermat's last theorem, or a 2-line crack of strong encryption. Shouldn't negatively affect your math carreer one bit.

  • programmer's tatoo (Score:5, Funny)

    by 1nv4d3r ( 642775 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @12:20AM (#6250777)
    I'd get a tatoo of some BSD code, then tell SCO it's some of theirs! They'd probably believe me! A cool employer would understand my deep-seated need to do this.

    (of course there's always the danger that Senator Orrin Hatch would find out and attempt to blow up my body, but I'm starting to think that danger was always there)
    • my friend and I have a running bet for $1000 + reimbursement of the cost of the tattoo to the first one of us to get his entire body tattoed with the Linux kernel code. I dont recall what the latest versions line count was but I imagine its far too much to fit on a human being (unless you get that guy who writes on grains of rice to do it), so if I were going to do it I'd probably go for an earlier version just so I know it'd compile.

      Oh. you can begin making jokes about how it would take a morbidly obese

  • In My Company (Score:5, Informative)

    by TheWanderingHermit ( 513872 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @12:52AM (#6250947)
    My company provides data for law offices and provides simple digitizing and digital services for people that don't know how to use scanners or to transfer their old family movies to DVD. Soon we'll be expanding into video production (what I REALLY want to be doing!). In the next few years we'll have retail stores/service centers in malls.

    Personally, I think putting something on your body that will fade and look ugly in one's later years, or could be something that simply does not fit your personality after you grow or mature (and I'm not saying tats are immature) is, at the least unwise. It makes no sense to me (but neither do piercings -- even pierced ears on women) at all -- and I'm not exactly known as a conservative.

    However it's not my job/business to judge your personal life. I want to know if you can do the job I am hiring you for. (And, from what I've seen in talking to other small business people, if you get a boss/interviewer as open minded as me, you're lucky!)

    If you come into my office to interview for a "frontline" job where you're dealing with clients (or working in the storefronts when we have them open) and you have visible tats or piercings other than "normal" ear piercings on women, you won't get a job. It doesn't matter what I think. It matters what customers and clients think. I'm not going to take a chance on offending or bothering a lawyer client or a retail customer who may be a fundamentalist or a member of any other group with prejudices against non-conformists. As said elsewhere, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what others (customers and clients) think. I'm not going to let my business lose money because an employee wants to "express" him or her self.

    On the other hand, if you're applying for a backline job, like programmer, sys admin, video editor, or even as camera man for our in-house productions, I don't care if you're The Illustrated Man. If you can do the job and interact well with the other employees so then can work with you easily and everyone does a good job, then you're hired.

    Just the opinion as a business owner.

    As a general person, my thought is tats and piercings may or may not hurt your career, but there's no reason to expect it to help. Why put the effort into doing something that may create problems in the long run?

    • Re:In My Company (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Jamie Lokier ( 104820 )

      I'm not going to take a chance on offending or bothering a lawyer client or a retail customer who may be a fundamentalist or a member of any other group with prejudices against non-conformists. As said elsewhere, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what others (customers and clients) think.

      What about clients with prejudices against black, female and/or homosexual people? Do you also support those prejudices for the sake of business?

      I expect you don't, although you may as many do. If you don't

      • There's always got to be someone who insists on taking things too far and pushing everyone and everything else just as far as they can go...

        First -- contrary to what some people think, there's no way you can tell someone is a homosexual unless that fact is directly communicated to you (and, since you seem to like to find "loopholes" in what people say, that includes what one may see).

        As for drawing the line: If someone has a problem with an employee of mine due to race, gender, religion, handicap, skin d

      • What about clients with prejudices against black, female and/or homosexual people? Do you also support those prejudices for the sake of business?

        For the most part, those 'features' that you are presenting can not be decided via self choice (although homosexuality is debatable). Body "art" is entirely your decision, and thus you must accept when you make that choice that not everyone will have the same views and beliefs as yourself.

        Body art is very similar to dress sense, we all have it, we all make c

        • I encourage employees to have fun and to take time to enjoy their work. We also have special days for treats for time to time (we won't be able to do this once the stores are up, though). Last year we had St. Tolkein's and St. Roddenberry's day. On St. Roddenberry's day, we shut down the company and I paid for everyone to go see Star Trek: Nemesis (yes, pretty much everyone working for me is a geek and interested in sf/fantasy). Three guesses what we saw on St. Tolkein's day.

          There are many ways to have
  • Getting a Tattoo somewhere where you won't be able to cover it with work clothing will have a negative impact with some employers and others will not care.

    So you may have a little bit harder time finding a job, but once you settle in there is no reason to think it will put you on the chopping block or hurt your promote-ability. I would still say that you are probably best off not getting facial piercings or hand/lower arm tattoos or you are probably cutting your pool of employers by 25 to 50 percent. Onc

  • think about what you want (Score:4, Insightful)

    by angeles13 ( 443205 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @01:33AM (#6251118)
    As someone that has both body piercings and tats, think very carefully about alterining your body. None of my body art is visible when I am wearing business professional clothing. When I would think about an article of clothing that may be iffy if the artwork showed through, I wouldn't wear it.

    The last corporate office that I worked at was an engineering and microelectronic firm. Noone knew about my artwork for almost a year before I saw someone after work and I was wearing something more reveiling. As long as my tattoos weren't seen, there was no issue in having them. The piercing wasn't seen at any time.

    When you do decide to get a tattoo, ask around. In most cities there are some great artists that are very skilled at what they do. Same for piercing salons. Ask other people that have tattoos where they got their work done. They will give you a suggestion of whom to go to and whom to avoid. In the Phoenix area, Halo Piercing is one of the best and there are several excellent tattoo parlors - Club Tattoo, Blue Dragon and Artistic Tattoo to name a few.

    As another poster mentioned, as long as it's not seen while wearing business attaire, it shouldn't matter about having body art or not.

    Good luck in making the decision and take your time in finding what you what as a tattoo, that way you won't regret it. I don't regret mine at all!

  • I was thinking about decorating myself with a tatoo.

    Before you get one, at least learn how to spell it! It's tattoo. =)

  • Dude, be careful! Too much crazy Tatu [google.com] stuff will get you fired! ;)

  • Covered or open? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mindslip ( 16677 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @02:51AM (#6251422)
    First question:
    Is it blatently, "offensively", openly, in-your-face visible?
    Does it scream "LOOK AT ME! LOOK AT ME!"?
    Will it say to the boardroom "I shouldn't be here... I don't take anything seriously... please latch a dog leash to this ring in my nose and connect it up to my eyebrow while you're at it"? ...does it go with an Armani suit? =-)

    Ask yourself a similar (but more common) question that women ask themselves each day before work: "Is this skirt too short / blouse too open / etc."? In other words... Is it appropriate for anything, anywhere, 'cause that's where you'll be wearing it!

    Just before I moved to New Zealand, I put a Canadian flag on my upper arm, just above the short-sleeve cuff. I haven't had a problem... but I'm not throwing it in anyones face.

    mindslip

  • If you are careful, you can get away with it... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by BladeMelbourne ( 518866 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @03:13AM (#6251492)
    I got a tatoo when I was 21 on my right bicep. If I wear a long or short sleave shirt (the type with a collar), it can't be seen. When my employers eventually saw it, they were not concerned. This is because wearing normal work attire, it is invisible.

    I also got a tongue piercing, and it took a week for it to be noticed by my employers. They didn't seem to mind, and I was still allowed to meet clients because it wasn't obviously visible. I ended up taking it out (after a year) because I didn't want to chip my teeth.

    I also dyed my hair black (from dark brown)... it wasn't a big change and my employers didn't mind.

    If you do get something done, don't make a big deal about it. Get it done for personal reasons, not to impress your colleagues. Don't go to extremes, be subtle and decorate a location on your body that is hidden by business clothing, but not by recreational clothing (if possible).

    PS: Don't EVER get a girl's name on a tatoo... If you want to impress her, get a heart tatoo and write her name across it every day with a permanent marker. You *will* thank me one day.

  • before you get a tattoo (Score:3, Interesting)

    by senahj ( 461846 ) on Friday June 20, 2003 @03:19AM (#6251505)

    you should find some older person whose tattoos are
    a couple decades old.

    take a close look at that 20-year-old tattoo.
    really. you want that?

    it may look fresh and lovely when it's new --
    but it's not always gonna be new.
    • Have you every looked at a 20-year-old tattoo that was taken care of? What I mean was that the owner kept the skin moisturized, alway wore sunblock, and avoided excessive time in the sun? It looks as good as the day it was done.
    • My grandfather got a tattoo done in Cairo when he was a teenager. Snakes and dragons and stuff. He nearly died from the lead content they used in the inks. I remeber as a kid being fascinated by his arms. He always told me never to get a tattoo. So I did. One cool guy. Although he did make CEO before he died. Rest in peace.
  • I have basically sworn to never wear a suit to anything. A simply t-shirt, shorts and jandals is all that is needed and I'll stick by that. If it negatively affects my work or anything else, then I've got a nice sample of ass for people to kiss.
  • In my experience, when you've got a "look" that's not consistent with what people expect (based on your function or the company you're representing for example) Then you've got a slight barrier to cross initially before they take you serious. But if appearance is the only thing that sets you apart from your professional group (i.e. you're at least as good or better at your work than them) then once they've had the time to talk to you they'll come to respect your knowledge and forget about your appearance. I

  • Works for me .. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by stevey ( 64018 )

    I've got several large tattoos - 6 in total which are all covered by my normal clothing. I'm fairly certain that most of the company knows these exist after drunking nights out - but I've never really shown them at work, and nobody has every commented.

    Piercings are pretty much the same. At the moment I have 12 piercings, and I see a colleague across the other side of the office with a lone eyebrow piercing.

    I guess if I had a customer facing position things would be different - but hiding around in the


  • Try the Corporate Goth [waningmoon.com] website.

    Its a site set up by fellow Goths discussing the best ways of addapting something of an alternative lifestyle (lots of peirced and tatted Goths out there) into looking respectable in the corporate bussness world. (We all need a job to fill the space between the nights, to pay for the drugs, the motorcycles and the pointy boots)

    The site has many discussions you may find usefull.

    My opinion?
    If you refuse to employ/talk to me beause of the way I look, then quite frankly it was

  • I've got several tattoos, to the point where percent of body coverage is counted, not individual tattoos. I also have multiple ear piercings, a very large tounge stud, and hair down to my waist. I've never found it to hamper me in any way. In fact in most cases I'm the person whom gets to meet with clients. And it's never been a problem with them either. I can still look and act professional, how I look does not stop me in that. The only thing people find odd is the fact that my wife does not have tattoos o

  • One, give it a try. Have the design done in magic marker, and wear it to work one day.

    Two, does it really pass the sarcastic old man test?

    For those who don't know, to determine if something's a good idea, phrase it in the most sarcastic way possible, then ask your self with an old man voice.

    Hey! I've got a great idea! Lets inject dye into our skin, then shove splitners of metal through our fleshy bits! As a fashion statement!

    If it still appeals to you, great. More power to you.

  • I've been working in the IT sector for about 10 years now. I'm pushing about 50% body coverage with tattoos (fully sleaved on both arms, lots of individuals spread out over the rest of my body). I wear earings. Up until a few years ago I had a few facial piercings too (removed because I was sick of them, not from any external pressure). I've had blue hair (right now I have no hair). I've never had a complaint. Why? I follow a few simple rules:

    1. Look neat and professional at your interview with non
  • You have the right to express yourself and people have the right to not like it. I have emplyees that have tattoos and piercings. I mainly higher telephone support techs. If I have person shows up to an interview and he or she has a 3 ft mohawk and tatoos everywhere and is wearing outlandish cloths it shows me that this person does not care about offending other people. That is not a good thing when it comes to doing customer service. It also shows poor judgement. Now if a tech thinks superglueing rubber ch
  • Some people (like me) find some piercings to be revolting. Some people (like me) also find the smell of cigarette smoke revolting (it makes me phyiscally nauseous). [OT rant: hey smokers, we're not out to take away your right to smoke. We just want to stop you from making us smell that crap and to stop you from giving us cancer. Smoke at home and in your car, and for god's sake, wash your clothes (including your jackets) often. Oh, and stop throwing your butts on the streets!]

    If I have you in for a job in

  • Tasteful and artful (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Jahf ( 21968 )
    Speaking of tatts at least, as long as it is tasteful (ie, not plastered across your forehead) you probably won't have any issues.

    I have a full armband, but I got it below the elbow rather than on the bicep, which means most times it is visible at work. I've -never- had a person give me a hard time about it. Even my grandparents (who are much more anti-tattoo than any boss I've met), once they saw that it was well done and not obscene, said they didn't mind and sort of liked it.

    That actually is often the

  • to compensate for what perceived inadequacy?

    Instead of permanently mangling yourself, figure out why you think you 'need' a tattoo or other body modifications. You'll probably be happier in the long run without it.

    IANSF (I am not Sigmund Freud)


  • ... is a piercing. Yessir. I'll rip that out to fare thee well. So, if you're sportin' one, don't pick a fight with me.

  • Piercings (Score:2, Funny)

    by dmr ( 22497 )
    Your boss isn't going to care about your Prince Albert, and if she notices it, you're halfway to a relationship or a great harassment lawsuit.
  • However beautiful a tattoo may have been when it was created, the damn things have a tendency to fade and become vague and blueish and cheap looking.

    And so will you...
  • to discriminate on the basis of one's skin color?

    joking aside, what's really important is that you show prospective employers that you are not your tatoo; that your tatoo is you. in other words, if you act like you are is supposed to say something for/about you and they are supposed to figure out what it is, chances are they will assume that you got it to be "different" (antisocial) and that you are probably not a good person to have on the team. instead, if you understand that people will have that reac

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