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Finding the Right Business Phone System? 70

Posted by Cliff from the operator!-I-need-an-exit dept.
KodaK asks: "I've recently been hired by a small-but-growing financial firm to be their systems administrator (Non ex transverso sed deorsum), now they want me to evaluate and recommend telephone systems. They want call reporting, and they also want visual call management. I've looked at Asterisk, and while I'd love to play with a system like that, I'm not skilled enough to put together what they want out of it in the timeframe they need, so I've been looking at PBX systems like the Alcatel OmniPCX Enterprise and Artisoft Televantage. However, I don't know enough about phone systems to effectively evaluate them. What should I be looking for? Are there really any differences, or are they all pretty much the same? The Artisoft is Windows 2000 based and that scares me from an availability standpoint (hey, VXWorks is /designed/ to be 5 nines, you can't say that about Windows). The Alcatel is Linux at the core, but is that really meaningful when there's other systems out there designed from the ground up to be telephone systems? Any suggestions? Any warnings? I'd appreciate any information or advice you can give me on any phone systems, not just the Alcatel and Artisoft. I want to make sure I'm making the right recommendation when there's a $30k plus investment involved."
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Finding the Right Business Phone System? More

Finding the Right Business Phone System?

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  • I went through a similar search process about a year ago. We got bids from several vendors and we eventually ended up choosing this one [radioshack.com]. It's turned out pretty well for us, but it doesn't have the visual management you are looking for. In that case, you may want to try this [radioshack.com]. I hope it's worth more than doubling your price, though.
  • ...is not that complicated. I don't know where in the world KodaK is, but there are a number of companies offering Asterisk-based solutions. Perhaps asking on #asterisk on FreeNode (irc.freenode.net) would be worth a shot.
    • AFAIK there aren't any local to me (St. Louis) and that puts a big damper on what the bosses will allow. I'm a competent *nix admin, but I will be the first to admit that I don't know enough to make repairs on telephone equipment if it should take a dive. Therefore, I'd need local and available support for this beast. I know Asterisk isn't that complicated (I've had it running as a VOIP system) but it doesn't have all the apps that we need and I don't have the time or experience (I guess I should add "ye
      • What do you need it to do? There isn't much Asterisk cannot do currently and there are many geeks around to build apps for you.

        • JSYK, I did attempt to contact Linux Support Services (aka Digium), which employs Mark Spencer the author of Asterisk, about Asterisk. I sent them an email explaining the situation and was met with silence. It's about two months later now and I still haven't heard anything from them. So, yes, I tried the Asterisk route. I tried getting an Asterisk consultant to talk to me about our needs, but there was no response. (As an aside, I sent a request for bids out to about 20 vendors and only 7 got back to m
          • I can't speak for Mark, nor am I officially tied to Digium, but your project ~may~ have been something they weren't interested in taking on at that point or may have just gotten lost in the amount of email I know they have to deal with.

            What I do know is Asterisk is very capable of doing anything you need it to do, but it is certainly not a polished plug-and-pray system like that proprietary crap you listed. Asterisk's real power comes in being open-source. If it doesn't do something you want it to do, you

  • Since when is that in your job description? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mnmn ( 145599 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @01:52PM (#6341040) Homepage

    The economy is making more sysadmins these days to provide cabling and phone support as well. Only playing with a phone exchange is very different from making scripts for cron in Solaris or AIX. Did you agree with them installation and maintenance of the phone system is part of your work or are they pushing you to do it? There are phone support companies who specialize in these things and work in parallel with the System/Network Administrator.

    If you are supporting the phone system, make sure youre called System Administrator/Phone Technician, so that such services arent defined to be part of the Sysadmin. And make sure you get paid for it too.
    • Thanks for your concern, but I'm just going to evaluate and buy this sucker. I'll probably do basic administration like adding users and whatnot, but anything other than that will be for the vendor to support. I just have to make the phone calls. :)
      • You should be forewarned that any advanced phone system requires constant supervision... More so than almost any other server. If it has features like Outlook integration, visual call management, etc... Expect to be adding/deleting users, helping people undelete messages from their voicemail box, resetting station IDs (especially in the win2k based systems) and changing the hold music as often as your upper management decides is neccesary.

      • Well that sounds reasonable, make sure you clarify maintenance is not covered. I repair computers for some people and buy some for others. They all run to me screaming if something breaks regardless of what the SLA says, so I have to lay down the maintenance responsibilities at the time of purchase. Turning down support on a dysfunctional phone system when the whole company is not functioning because of it is difficult because youre then part of the company.

        Ive seen other sysadmins who really spend all t
  • Check out this article at nwfusion.com:

    here. [nwfusion.com]

    Seems they cover a lot of what you are asking.
  • Windows 2000 is stable when only one program is running. I really liked the TeleVantage system, but have no experience with it.
  • Also go check out the Cisco CallManager [cisco.com], and the 3Com NBX [3com.com].

    I've worked with the Cisco system, and I know that it has call detail capability. It does run Windows 2000. However, it was pretty reliable. I've talked to others running the NBX, and they swear by it.

    That all being said, don't rule out the standard telephony players. Although their systems aren't VOIP based, many of them have hooks for VOIP and network management. Many are still hurting after the telecom boom went bust, so you could probably
    • Callmanager has callreporting. But only available for individual reports. Making management reports needs a thrid party tool like MIND's MEIPS or any other tool that can access and use the raw SQL data. You are right about decent deals being possible. I've seen a decline of 20-50% in pricing sinds january 2003, depending on which vendor.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • I couldn't disagree more. In my research, I found that VoIP PBXs, even when putting in a new system from the ground-up, were not worth it. They all have voice quality problems (like echo), and the IP phones are much more expensive than wiring your building for Cat.3.

      • I couldn't disagree more. In my research, I found that VoIP PBXs, even when putting in a new system from the ground-up, were not worth it. They all have voice quality problems (like echo), and the IP phones are much more expensive than wiring your building for Cat.3.

        Voip phones are down to $75 [grandstream.com]. That's a lot less than any proprietary mini-PBX phones that I'm aware of.

        If you're having echo or other voice quality problems in this day and age, then you haven't configured things properly.

        By using Voip p

      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • I know its suprising, but I did the math and there was no cost savings.

          As you stated above.. $400 for a cisco VoIP phone. ComDial phones can be had for about $70. Lucent phones can be had for about $90. The phones my company was using with TeleVantage were about $120 each. I agree with you on those Siemens phones. Siemens seemed to be ridiculously overpriced... probably because they have such a strong European presence.

          Wiring the cat.3 network when we were already running cat.6 cabling to the same
    • I agree completely with this comment.

      I have installed two Cisco CallManager solutions, and they are great. During the first one I was skeptical (the client really wanted VOIP and I wasn't too sure), but I have never heard any echo problems or delays that others have talked about.

      The phone's are more expensive, but they act as a switch at the end user's desk, so only one drop is typically needed, since the user's PC plugs into the phone. So you avoid the extra cost of running a second drop to everyone's
  • Televantage needs some work. It has serious out-of-the-box security issues that require reconfiguration (and in our case an upgrade too).

    Its basically functional and meets our needs though.

    BTW, it sends email notifications with voicemails attached, encoded as ms-tnef format. Don't get this if you want to use that feature and don't use MS email clients.

    -molo
    • Agreed. Make sure to keep TV (or really any network PBX) far behing the firewall. These systems are not deisgned to be bulletproof, and you will have to patch them like any other server.

      Regarding the voicemail notifications-- I believe this is a standard feature in TV. You can just turn it off in the administrator tool if you don't want to use it. And TV is designed with Outlook Integration in mind, so yeah... MS formats.

      One of the nice things about those sound files is that it goes both ways. You
  • If you want headache-free, try Altigen [altigen.com]...
    • VOIP
    • handy voicemail
    • integration with contact managers
    • total control of user privileges
    • uses STANDARD handsets (not proprietary)
    • totally easy to administer

    Unfortunately, it's on Windows... but the last one I installed has run for three years and didn't die once unless the power went out or (just last month) the mobo fried. Not its fault.

    Just make sure you have some hefty UPS backup, and at each workstation if you go with some powered phones like VOIP...

    • My advice regarding the Altigen phone system is to be VERY circumspect regarding its performance and reliability. While it is a remarkable system, with many wonderful features, it is far from bug free. Admittedly, my experience with it was in an evnvironment that stretched it to its limits (call center). For your average medium sized office environment, I believe it would be a great choice. Just be sure you get serious language in the contract that will protect you should the system, or the vendor, not meet
  • from interactive intelligence [inin.com], artisoft [artisoft.com], etc, but i don't like entrusting my dial tone to pcs with tons of moving parts and a general-purpose os.

    i'm presently using and love my inter-tel [inter-tel.com] system. all the hardware is in a small blade-like rack, no atx power supplies, cpu fans, or hard drives to fail and take my whole system out. the voicemail system runs os/2 on a single blade with storage to an industrial laptop hard drive. all the database programming is done via a windows app, and while the gui can be

  • I've been here before... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jaredcat ( 223478 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:45PM (#6341629)
    About a year and a half ago, I did 3 months of research on a new phone system for both customer service and regular office users in my company. We wanted something that had every feature known to man (like voice prompts, announced hold times, visual call management, tracking software, database integration), but we were also on a tight budget-- in this case, around $70k for an intial roll-out of 50 stations.

    I evaluated pretty much every system out there, from the "real" PBXs made by ComDial, NEC, Toshiba, and Lucent / Avaya, to the "soft" PBXs made by 3Com, Artisoft, Alcatel, and Interactive Intelligence... Bouncing features and quotes off of at least two dozen different sales agents.

    My conclusion:

    Best Features available ANYWHERE without completely breaking the bank: Interative Intelliengce I3 Phone System [inin.com]

    Best Bang for your buck: Artisoft Televantage [artisoft.com]

    Runner Up: 3Com NBX100 [3com.com]

    The "real" PBXs that ran their own OS and didn't have Linux or Win2k at the core just couldn't compete with the features of their younger cousins from smaller companies. Of course the tradeoff was reliability. You could expect even a 10-year-old NEC PBX to keep running exactly the same, never crashing, pretty much until the end of time. However if you just had to have those features (like database integration, custom voice prompts, etc...) with 99.99999% uptime, I would have to be prepared to spend well over $150k... which I wasn't going to do.

    I finally decided on TeleVantage for my company, and a year and a half later, we are still happy with this system. It does have it's problems though-- it's never exactly crashed, but it has had some mysterious slow-down issues that calls for a reboot about once every 3 weeks. We also had a database corruption that caused us to restore from a backup about a year after installation-- but all in all, its a fantastic system with every feature you could want.

    As for the others in my final 3:

    Interactive Intelligence was by far the system that impressed me the most out of all the ones that I looked at. It had even more features than TV (the ability to record EVERY call and store them in a seperate database for instance), but for the most part those two were very similar. Both had great Outlook integration. Both had visual call management. Both could do everything we wanted. Two things really set I3 apart from TV. First, they had the best design tool anywhere. Database integration, even with our PostgreSQL DB, required virtually no programming. You created call flows in the design tool like it was a flow chart in MS Project. The other thing that set I3 apart from TV was the price. I3 was about 50% more expensive than TV, and that was the only reason why I didn't go for it.

    3Com NBX100 looked like a great system. One of it's best features was that it could support 200+ users on an IP network, making it unneccesary to wire our new building for both Cat.3 and Cat.6. Unfortunately, at the time, the $10k difference in wiring costs was still less than the difference in prices for 3Com IP phones vs. regular phones that use Cat.3. The NBX100 also had most of the features we were looking for... like visual call management, custom prompts, etc... But it couldn't do announced hold times (which was a requirement for me) without an expensive extra piece of hardware from a third party that would have doubled the price. Even doubled though, the price of the NBX100 system (which would have been around $35k for us) was still fairly competitive with what we were expecting to pay. However, I was unwilling to rely on an all-IP system. The NBX was still a new system at the time and it had been rumored to have echo and other voice quality issues. Of course the 3Com reps denied it, but I couldn't really take the chance.

    --
    • Just some quick notes about the 3com. It is not really an IP phone system in the sence that most others are. 3com likes to call it network telephoney. It runs at layer2 unless you have to have IP ( if you are calling another site using h.323 or 3com's built in VTL(virtual tie lines)). Then the phone picks up an IP dynamically. It's acutally a really nice system, and it runs on VxWorks, so it does run on a stable operating system. The basic box itself comes with call reporting and voicemail. If you want full

  • Talk to someone with a clue (Score:4, Insightful)

    by PapaZit ( 33585 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @02:47PM (#6341646)
    I know this is going to sound rude, but with the amount of money that you're going to spend, you really need to spend time talking to someone who knows what they're doing.

    Given your lack of experience, consider talking to your local telco: a lot of them offer package deals of hardware and support for organizations that want a PBX but don't want to run it.

    Failing that, find someone who's willing to talk. Again, your local phone company may be willing to offer consultants on a contract basis. Another good source of advice: colleges. Talk to a few schools in your area. Ask to talk to someone in their telecom group. Find out what they're using for staff and faculty (where per-user billing is less important), and also find out what magazines they read and how they stay current on new hardware and trends. Get up to speed on trends and terminology before you start talking specifics. Find out what info you need before you talk to vendors. Find out which vendors they use and which they'd like to use.

    Then, throw all of that work into the trash can when your boss tells you that his brother-in-law's nephew is a phone contractor, so you'll be using whatever he installs. ;-)

    • Re:Talk to someone with a clue (Score:4, Informative)

      by jaredcat ( 223478 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @03:20PM (#6342049)
      Ack! Nooooo!

      Your local telco will try to sell you something called "centrex"-- which is basically them managing your phone system for you by partitioning off a section on their local class 5 switch.

      This sucks because:

      - You have to get your local telco to fix the problem whenever you have one... during business hours... whenever they feel like getting around to it.

      - If you EVER want to change ANY settings, they have to do it for you... even little things like moving an extension from one office to another.

      I think the only advantage of Centrex is that everyone has a DID (direct-inward-dial) number... but really if you want that, you can get that with any phone system.

      If you tell them that you don't want centrex but still want a suggestion, you'll probably just end up with whoever their partner is. Remember they want to make money here, not help you.

      Regarding the other suggestion above, that you call other companies customer service and ask them what they use-- Let me tell you what I've found from this in my own experience.

      On the off chance that you get to talk to someone with technical expertise by calling into a huge company's customer service number, you may get a good idea of the user experience with the phone, but certainly not the management experience.

      Also, it is not a good idea to pick your system based on taking a poll of what other companies are using for their call centers. In MANY large organizations (as the commentor correctly stated), the phone system is a very lucrative contract that goes to some VP's nephew who is a rep for Avaya or something with hardly any research. In other cases, when a company (say, American Express) goes out and buys themselves a phone system even with a lot of research, you have to understand that 1) they have a lot more bargaining power than you do, and 2) their needs are far different from yours... even if it seems like the same application.

      As for magazines... try "Call Center". Its one of the better industry journals, but I didn't really find it all too helpful when I had to find a phone system for my company.

      • Re:Talk to someone with a clue (Score:4, Informative)

        by PapaZit ( 33585 ) on Tuesday July 01, 2003 @04:09PM (#6342594)
        I disagree: centrex service is actually pretty nice IF you're not utterly dependent on phone service (not a call center, etc.) and you don't want/don't need a dedicated telecom admin.

        The "you have to get them to fix problems" argument isn't a good one if you have nobody in-house who can fix problems. It's better if the phone company fixes a problem in an hour than if your sysadmin has to spend an hour reading the manual each time there's a problem. I've also seen very few problems with the centrex systems where I've worked, but that's obviously related to the quality of your local provider.

        The "they have to do everything for you" is also an advantage if you don't want to do it yourself.

      • Centrex has it's flaws, but it can be a very good choice for some small businesses. The services and prices vary considerably between ohone companies and markets - It's a great deal some places, and a horrible one in others.

        Caveat Emptor, but it's an option well worth inviting a telco rep over for a meeting about. If I were your boss, I wouldn't think you'd done your homework if you hadn't checked out Centrex as an option - it's really just outsourcing your phone system to the LEC. If you look at it an
    • Believe me, /. isn't my one stop advice shop. I appreciate all the suggestions from everyone here (there are some good ones) but on an investment of this size asking here is just one small part of the overall evaluation.

      I wanted to get a feel for what else was out there and see if there were any systems that I missed when I was searching (well, let's be honest, googling) for them.

      And you're right about the boss thing. Right now my boss is gunning for the televantage because he liked the GUI. I seriousl
      • I3 also has a really neat-o GUI. The 3com one isn't bad either.

        In my office, the TeleVantage UI gets used by normal office users pretty much for voicemail only. It gets used in the call center for EVERYTHING though... We have it setup so calls coming in on different 800#'s (ANIs) appear differently in the que. We have it setup so that if the boss calls into customer service on his cell phone, it shows his name in the que so that customer service agents always pick up his call first (like if he's demoin
    • when your boss tells you that his brother-in-law's nephew is a phone contractor, so you'll be using whatever he installs.

      Using a rule based rewrite system (in Lisp) to simplify such relationships, wouldn't this reduce to simply "when your boss tells you that his nephew is a phone contractor..." ?

  • Unfortunately, I don't have a background in PBXs. But I am aware of how cheaper, flawed models of PBXs will have holes to be exploited by "phreakers". They will then proceed to route many long distance calls through the PBX, leaving the company with the bill.
    • Security is defenitely an issue. Make sure to firewall your PBX and to disallow outbound calls from inbound trunks. This usually means disabling the "follow-me" setting that rings your cell phone when your office extension doesn't pick up.

      Another simple precaution is making the number you dial for an outbound trunk something other than '9'. Or make '9' only available for local calls.

      For instance in my company's system--

      Dialing 9 goes to the 8 copper POTS lines we use for local calls and for when our T
    • Not only the cheaper PABXs have "holes", even the big established vendors have had releases in the past with mayor holes and other faults. Security flaws are not always the fault of the vendor but mostly of inexperience of the admin. For example trunk to trunk calling (ie. connecting an inbound call to an outbound call) is possible when a user puts his phone in a call forward to an external location (for instance an overseas friend.) User goes home, calls his own phone number and presto! "free" call to hi
  • I'm sorry, but Windows 2000 is rock solid as long as you know what you're doing. Just like any other OS. Now if the software has bugs and leaks memory or whatever that's another story - your application avail rate will suck. But blaming it on the OS is rather stupid. Besides, 99% of the time Windows will will clean after borked apps so you don't have to reboot. Schedule service packs on weekends during low-usage hours or whatever.
    • Yeah, rocksolid. Cisco Callmanager V3.2 really rocked the server by filling up all available ram and not releasing it. User and admin interfaces are all java based so I ended up with a not responding Callmanager every three months... with only 50 users. Imagine the large setups with thousands of IP phones going berzerk every few days. Callmanager V3.3 fixed the problem though...
      • How is that the OS's fault? I can write a C app that eats memory like there's no tomorrow and bring Linux to a crawl, although it probably won't crash. A system crash (did that happen?) and application unavailability in this case however are exactly the same thing.
  • First things first. Why are you looking for Voice over IP systems? Is it required? Why? Do you think maintenance would be any easier? It won't be. How many users must the system support? 10 or 10,000? Do you need future networking functionality? Other locations? sharing the same numbering scheme? The systems described are small systems, aimed at a max. 256 users. Also take note, a lot op VOIP or IP-enabled PABXs don't offer the same functionalities as their conventional counterparts. And if they do, pr
  • So far (2.5 years) it's been pretty damn reliable. I've never rebooted it, it's running on NT4.0.

    The version we have will let you use any IP phone as an extension (which is to say, identical to a wired extension). The other thing that's nice is that it gives you analog phone jacks, so you can use any phone/fax/modem you want at each extension.

    It's got other nice stuff, like a (windows) desktop app that will pop up to do phone stuff (transfers, conference calls, etc.) Or a java applet, if you don't have

  • I am sorry I can't be really helpful by recommending something. However, we recently bought a Mitel 3100 IP phone system and I can tell you it's a lemon. Non-intuitive and inflexible voicemail, random misbehaving, Web administration frontend that *require* IE, etc. Avoid it at all cost.
  • You don't give any specifics, not even about the size of the organization, much less planned growth and call volume so, no one here can give you a legitimate answer. But, what you do tell us is that you are way out of your league on this decision and if the company is larger than 10 people, you could be putting yourself and the company in a grave situation. There are many legal requirements for phone systems (think 911) that some smaller offerings do NOT address.

    I strongly recommend that you contact a loca
    • I strongly recommend that you contact a local provider (or three) of PBX/Key Systems . . . to recommend the right system for you.

      I have here in front of me budgetary bids from 5 vendors on 7 phone systems.

      Alcatel OmniPCX

      Artisoft TeleVantage

      3Com NBX 100

      3Com NBX 5000

      Comdial FXII

      Vodavi XTS

      Convergent Communications PDX

      The prices on the systems listed range from $28k to $48k.

      Organization size is currently 40 users, up to 60 by the end of the year and around 100 during the course of 2004 (after that,

      • people who had been sold on one thing and got another

        I *just* finished putting together a 3Com NBX100 system a month ago. Of all the choices we looked at for a similar-sized organization, the NBX100 seemed like the best fit. It had the best mix of current features, including all that you mentioned, as well as future expandability and nice touches like compatibility with H.323 gatekeepers.

        We were also impressed with their softphone application... until we used it. We were given a reference at an AOL cal

  • You were hired to be a Systems Admin, but now are buying phones? I hope it doesn't get much worse for ya.
  • Hire a consultant for installation and training,
    and do Asterisk. You will have wide open future
    growth options for the company, and be expanding
    your career prospects too. Not to mention that
    your well-spent consulting and training $$ will
    go a long way in advancing the Asterisk project.
    Win, win, win.
  • I've had great luck with Televantage. Stable, good features, users find it easy-to-use.

    VOIP scares me. Seems pretty complex and expensive.

    Good luck!
  • buy used, or slightly used, at 1-800-phoneguys [1800phoneguys.com]. i don't work for them or know them personally, but the guy who runs it is talked about alot on this site [nsxfiles.com], and is pretty successful. buy from them and help fund their ferrari addiction!
  • If you are willing to spend a little extra money, I highly recommend Cisco Call Manager. It is a VoIP system that provides access to the pstn through voice gateways. It is a little more expensive than a classic PBX, but is VERY easy to configure and scales extraordinarily well.

    I'm sceptical about Windows 2k also, but the Call Manager runs on 2k and we have never had a crash. The voice quality is supprisingly good also. The codec used is the best GSM standard (I forget the exact one). There are also op

  • The best piece of advice I can offer is understand as best you can how the business will be using the system. How large will it need to be, will it be growing? What kind of availability is required? What extra features are you looking for, voice mail, conference bridges, ivr, acd, etc?

    We have 5 phone systems, 3 of which are replicated accross 3 local call centers for load balancing and redumdancy. We have 3 Avaya [avaya.com] systems, 3 Aspect [aspect.com] systems, 3 Periphonics [nortelnetworks.com] IVR's, a Concerto [concerto.com] Unison and Concerto [concerto.com] Contact P

  • My company went to The Sisco System about 6 months ago. It took about a month, and a new switcher to get the bugs out of the system. During that month, we had audio quality issues. We are running the system on a win2k server. My phone has crashed a couple of times, but overall, it seems to work as advertised. One of the features that I liked was the fact that when I had to move my office, my phone number went with me without having to call in the service company.
  • Here are my two suggestions, for what they're worth:

    1) This is not the place to do homework on this issue. a great place to get started is to find somewhere that has the last year or two's back issues of Communications Convergence or similar trade magazines. That one in particular might be good - I don't know how they are now that they're part of CMP, but the magazine used to be called Teleconnect and was edited by a crusty old guy named Harry Newton. I've never seen more honest reviews and buyer's guid
  • Since this is not your field of expertise, you should make that clear up front to your superiors. Put a positive spin on it by saying you're happy for the opportunity to add telephony to your skill set. Next, involve the end users heavily in the selection process. This will make the process much more cumbersome, but their feedback is essential and their buy-in just might save your butt when the system isn't everything it was hoped to be. Did I mention end user input? You don't say how many users you'll ne
  • A few weeks ago we switched from an old AT&T system to Artisoft Televantage [artisoft.com].

    I didn't make the call, my boss did. But we looked at a number of systems - many that are mentioned in other posts here.

    So far, so good. We had a problem with it not releasing trunks. That was *not* good. Artisoft said the problem was with the intel chipset, Intel said it was Artisoft's fault.

    Either way after a week or so of waiting, we received a patch, installed it, and wala, it works.

    We got it working with the building's

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