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Portables Hardware

Apple-Quality Intel Laptops? 229

Posted by Cliff from the sturdy-looks-good-and-works dept.
arashiakari asks: "I have to buy a new laptop soon and I am having trouble settling on a brand or model except one that I cannot use. Apple's iBook laptop is beautiful, functional, lightweight, and made of high quality materials. I would buy one today except that I am a professional programmer and MUST use the same platform my compiler targets: Intel. So far each Intel-based laptop I have looked at is both grossly over-decorated (Compaq, Toshiba) and made of cheap flimsy materials (Dell), or has the combined problem of being overpriced and under-powered - with external bays for everything (Sony). IBM is expensive, but they are as close as I've found to "right" ... with Toshiba in second place. It seems like Intel-based laptops are either hot ugly tanks or oversized PDAs, there seems to be a scarcity of balanced well-thought-out and produced machines. Does the Slashdot have any suggestions?"
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Apple-Quality Intel Laptops? More

Apple-Quality Intel Laptops?

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  • Emulation? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nocomment ( 239368 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:41PM (#6397433) Homepage Journal
    Will an intel emulator work? Something such as virtual pc? I know you can use the commercial product for Mac's called codewarrior that is able to compile for intel. You'd still need some kind of emulator to test it though. Has anyone else done this?
    • No it won't. Have you ever used Virtual PC, even 5.0? On a $3000 Mac dual 1.42 it runs slower than my Celeron366.

      • Re:Emulation? (Score:4, Informative)

        by Shishio ( 540577 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:00AM (#6398164)
        Well, Virtual PC is still incapable of splitting its PC tasks and using a Mac's second processor for anything more trivial than drawing the window border. It's still slower than it should be, but not as slow as you imply. A $1000 Mac can generally run programs well enough to check them.
    • i've got a dual 1.0 and virtual pc runs like a dog in it... it works, but it's really only good enough for veryifying something, i wouldn't want to work in it all day. On my PB12, it varies between slothlike slowness and uselessness, depending on what you want to do, and whether or not the processor speed is reduced at the moment. An intel notebook is a much better choice if the job basically consists of doing things on intel.
    • Screw VPC use VMWare much better product IMHO.

      • Re:Emulation? (Score:3, Informative)

        by kableh ( 155146 )
        Much different product, and not just MHO.

        Virtual PC emulates an x86 processor. VMware, as the name implies, creates a virtual machine. Two completely different tasks. Emulating, as you would imagine, has much greater overhead, so VPC is going to be much slower.

    • Re:Emulation? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by penguinboy ( 35085 )
      How do you emulate the price of an Intel notebook on a Mac?

  • Suggestion #1 (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:42PM (#6397436)
    Get a job developing for macs.

    Problem solved.

    • Seriously, exactly what do you need? (Score:4, Informative)

      by cait56 ( 677299 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:28AM (#6398010) Homepage

      If you are just targetting Intel processors with open source tools, you shouldn't have any problems. If you need to target a non-gnu platform, however, well then you need a really good laptop to compensate for the hassles.

      I was fairly satisfied with a Sony VAIO that a previous employer insisted on paying too much for. (I submitted the specs for an iBook, but they insisted on spending more money) Of course it not only cost more, but ended up needing repairs more often.

      I bought an iBook on my own, but really haven't seen a PC laptop that I would buy on my own yet.

      My advise is to concentrate on the features you most like in a PowerBook/iBook. Is it the display? The ports? General durability? Running a GUI desktop and a Unix shell at the same time?

      If the latter is a factor, as in you might want to do some network analysis in the field, then you want to pre-validate that the laptop you're looking at can be partitioned and dual-booted with either Linux or BSD.

  • Go with IBM Thinkpad (Score:3, Informative)

    by akehurst ( 3891 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:42PM (#6397438)
    I do all of my development on my IBM Thinkpad T23, with built-in wireless and Ethernet. It is a workhorse and has not let me down. IBM is a great company with excellent support for their products.
    • Completely agree with you.

      The Thinkpad was my very first laptop and having used other brands which my friends have and also in computer stores, I think they're by far the best out there.

      Hardware is great quality, next day service, support is also good.

    • did my first site on one and used it for almost two years with no complaints, high reliability. they are very nice laptops, for a non-mac laptop. of course i'm on a tiBook now :) still, i like their durability and solidness. if you're gonna have to go with a brick/toaster, this is the cream of the crop
    • Very sweet stuff at cheap prices.

      Power Notebooks [powernotebooks.com]

      Someone else linked to them the other day on slashdot and I was very impressed. Especially the 17" one for $1700 !!! That's only $300 more than I paid for my 900MHz iBook 12.1"!!!!

  • Get the Thinkpad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PD ( 9577 ) * <slashdotlinux@pdrap.org> on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:46PM (#6397452) Homepage Journal
    There's a rule to follow: "Thou shalt lust after no other laptop than an IBM Thinkpad."

    I've owned three of them, and all have been really great computers. I've owned other laptops, and they failed to measure up to the standard set by the Thinkpad.

    My current machine is an A21m with 800mhz Pentium III, running Linux. All the hardware on the machine works with Linux. I have use it every day for work for the past 2.5 years, and it's just plain reliable. It's worth the money I paid for it, and I've noticed that the prices have dropped a lot. You can get a Thinkpad for much much less than what I paid for mine.

    My next laptop will be an IBM Thinkpad.

    • Re:Get the Thinkpad (Score:3, Informative)

      by MrAndrews ( 456547 ) *
      Toshiba used to make really good laptops, but their newer ones you'll hear aren't meeting the same standards. Dell makes truly awful laptops (they seem to miss the point of portable completely)...
      Thinkpads are really truly the only non-Apple laptop I've used that really did the job right. They're small, sturdy, and they do what they need to do. If you need something powerful, you'll need a desktop too, but really the resolution, speed and energy efficiency of the Thinkpads are really quite good.
      Though of
      • I don't think Dell miss the point... they just choose to ignore it.

        From what I've seen of Dell's, they're not really designing machines to be used on the move, they're designing computers you can (relatively) easily carry to another desk regularly, or sit in front of the TV with (assuming you don't mind burning your legs if you're in shorts.)
        • I would agree with you except that (after having tried to carry my Dell around in a carrying case twice and learning how bloody heavy the thing is), I never used it except as a not-at-my-desk-but-still-like-my-desktop machine... and it still came apart from the strain of being opened and closed every day so that the screen stopped working in less than a year.
          The primary function of a portable computer is that it be portable, and if it's not physically capable of withstanding that function, it's not very wel

        • I love my Dell (Score:4, Interesting)

          by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @08:55AM (#6399484) Homepage
          Yes, it's big and heavy.

          But it's got EVERYTHING internal (no need for external bays) and a beautiful 15" screen with resolution that is far higher than Apple's 15" laptop LCDs. Runs every game I have quite well.

          It's an Inspiron 8200. Yes, it's not the most portable, but Dell's primary market is businesses. It doesn't matter if the unit is a little heavy if a bulk of your "traveling" is from your cube to the conference room. (Or in the case of where I work, half of the engineers have Dells that move between the docking station on their desk and the benchtop in the lab multiple times per day.)

          That said - If you have the money, Thinkpads are the way to go. They are the most durable laptops on the market by far. (Unless you go into the "ruggedized" market, where units like the Panasonic Toughbook reign supreme.) If cost is an issue, Dell makes excellent laptops, especially the Inspiron 8000 series.

    • Re:Get the Thinkpad (Score:2, Informative)

      by BJH ( 11355 )
      I'd say the same (I've been using a Thinkpad as my main laptop for just over two years now, and like you, everything in it works with Linux), except that IBM now have some models that will only take particular types of wireless adapters - apparently the current T40 is one of these.

      Before you put your cash down, do your homework with Google to make sure that it will do what you want.
    • 1. Find an IBM employee. They can give you access to the "friends and family" store. Sometimes the discounts are amazing.

      2. Become a stockholder. Stockholders also get access to discounts.

      3. eBay. The IBM store on eBay [ebay.com] has some sweet deals.

      If you save enough money you can go out and buy a cheap iBook as well. Have the best of both worlds.

  • I vote for IBM (Score:5, Interesting)

    by guacamole ( 24270 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:47PM (#6397464)
    IBM laptops win my vote for having the best ballance of quality, features, performance, portability, sturdiness, and design. Yes, this all comes at a higher price but if you look, it's about the same or less than the equivalent Apple gear. Moreover, amazingly the prices did go down compared to say 2 years ago. I remember there was no way to get a T-series Thinkpad for under $2000 and it still would be stripped down unless you get a $3000. These days you can buy a well configured T-series Thinkpad for under $2000 or you could opt for an cheaper R-series and pay the prices pretty much in Apple's 12inch iBook range for it (excapt that you'd get a better screen and much faster CPU)

  • Which Compaq? (Score:4, Informative)

    by JLester ( 9518 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:48PM (#6397469)
    Which Compaqs have you looked at? I agree that their consumer/home versions are pretty cheesy looking.

    We use the Evo N800c model at work. They look professional, are very reliable, and work with everything we've tried. We've been all Compaq except laptops up until the past year (IBM Thinkpads). Once I saw the newer Evo notebooks, we switched over to the Compaq laptops as well. The IBM's were great too, just pricey as you said. I don't even normally put my Compaq in a case unless I need extra peripherals or are traveling very far with it. It's pretty sturdy.

    Before Thinkpads, we used all Toshibas. They were great a few years ago. I think their build-quality and reliability has gone down though, at least based on the ones we've bought.

    Jason

    • Compaq (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Andy Dodd ( 701 )
      I used to work in a computer sales center.

      Compaq consistently has the worst quality rep of any PC manufacturer. (Except Packard Smell... Thank God they're gone. Even eMachines is better than Compaq.) We routinely had Compaq laptops come in for service with displays that had simply stopped working.

      Toshiba used to be excellent, but like you, I've heard that they've gone downhill over the past few years.

      Dell's quality seems to oscillate every few years. Back when I was in school, all of their laptops a
      • I agree with you regarding Compaq laptops (their Deskpros and Proliants have always been good) until the last year or so. They've gotten much better. My department supports about 2000 Compaq computers, but was standardized on Thinkpads until the last year.

        Jason

  • Find a good trade-off, and choose. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Flying-Cow-Man ( 686404 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:50PM (#6397480)
    What I've always liked about Apple's notebooks is their ability to make the right compromises between size, weight, cost, speed, expandability, etc. I'm not saying they're perfect, but I agree with you that they're usually a lot better thought out than most of the wintel notebooks out there. You're better off asking yourself what your priorities are in a portable machine, and then picking a box that was built with the same priorities as you. As you said, the VAIO line is well designed, but often lacks features and speed. Do you need that extra speed? If you're looking for a devel machine then maybe you should just bite the bullet and buy a chunkier box.

    Another poster suggested testing your apps in VPC on the Mac, but I think a virtual machine is the last place you want to be debugging test code. Any chance you could move to high level development? That way the test platform wouldn't really matter, just use your OO language of choice.
    • Advantages of developing and debugging on a virtual machine include:
      • Ability to save the entire state of a machine for test cases
      • testing installation on a "previously virgin" machine
      • running as "end-user" rather than "developer"
      • running multiple versions of an application concurrently on independent virtual machines
      • testing under multiple versions of OS
      • Many of the advantages of remote debugging within a single machine

      Are you writing device drivers or applications?

  • IBM (Score:4, Interesting)

    by NetJunkie ( 56134 ) <jason.nashNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:52PM (#6397484)
    Another vote for IBM. I'm currently on a T30 and had a T23 before this. I use my TP 24/7 and it never gets turned off. It gets a ton of use, not just sitting idle. It never crashes or dies. Should you have a hardware issue you'll have it back to you in 48 hours. They aren't the cheapest, but you get what you pay for.

    I couldn't work without my notebook...and I'm not giving up this T30 for anything...but maybe a T40. :)

    • Re:IBM (Score:2, Informative)

      by Tower ( 37395 )
      Disclaimer - I am an IBM employee.

      That being said, I got my wife an A21 for her use (graduate student / teaching), and we've certainly been very happy with that (the employee discount was very nice, too). My current primary x86 workstation at work is a T30, which plays nicely at home with the integrated wireless card (Cisco Airport 340/350).

      Compared to other laptos I've used in the past, the Thinkpads do seem to be a little more forgiving of a little abuse, and from a hardware standpoint are quite a bit

  • Did you check out Fujitsu--Offline? (Score:5, Informative)

    by dotcomian ( 572165 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @10:52PM (#6397486)
    I was roughly on the same quest as you a year ago. I spent too much time searching for online product reviews that it eventually crush my head. I decided to go to a local computer mall, and browse around the products that I've reviewed online. The product that I actually picked was none of that I thought was good (based on the reviews), it was a Fujitsu Lifebook S Series (6010); as I expected it's the closest thing that can come to iBook's quality, screen is definetly the best of all other notebooks I've used (Dell, Compaq, Toshiba, Vaio, Acer, Gateway, etc), the magnesium alloy screen cover is very solid. And oh, it has a superdrive--the same one used in ibooks!

    All in all, it's the tiny bits of design detail that catch my attention on this well built pc, fujitsu actually manufacture it themselve in Japan, unlike others that usually outsource their production line to taiwan.

    I would suggest you to go and check out the physical product yourself, ask for a live demo, try launching programs, use the disk, connect to an external mouse just like how you'd use the computer; a 20 minute of physical test is much better then a 2 weeks of reading online reviews.

    • And oh, it has a superdrive--the same one used in ibooks!

      You either meant to say PowerBooks, [apple.com] which ship with combo (DVD/CD-RW) drives and Superdrives (DVD-R/CD-RW), or you meant to say that the Fujitsu has a combo drive like the ones in the iBooks [apple.com] which do not have a Superdrive.

      Judging from what I see on product pages [premiopc.com] for the Fujitsu LifeBook S6000 you meant to say combo drive, since that is what they have.

      I should also point out in addition that the PowerBook drives are slot-loading, while the F

    • Another Fujitsu vote from me.

      I have a S-4542 that's pushing 3 years old and I could not have been happier with. I've beat on it a lot and it hasn't skipped a beat.

      I'm planning on replacing it with another Fujitsu S-series in the fall.

  • Sharp, Panasonic (Score:2, Informative)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 )
    Sharp Mebius Muramasa [sharp.co.jp] It is smaller and lighter than Apple's brick. It runs on Transmeta so you can get geek points too.

    Panasonic Let's Note [panasonic.jp] Again, smaller and lighter than Apple's iBrick.

    It continues to amaze me that people look at the iBook as some kind of zenith of hardware design when it is bigger, heavier, and has only one mouse button compared to the Windows-based alternatives. I guess if you are comparing the Apple to an IBM or Dell laptop you'd have a point but with all sorts of more stylishly
    • IBM and Dell? Poorly designed?

      Most IBM's models and many Dell's models kick Apple in the ass in terms of durability, performance, endurance, build quality, and many other parameters. Some of them are obscenely big, but that's because they were not designed to be small. Those before P-M eat obscene amounts of power, but that's not IBM's/Dell's fault. In the portable range, IBM and Dell have models to compete with Apple formidably. Design is not just about flashy looks. Some Vaio models look awesome and work

    • Those are nice, but they have thesame problem all subnotebooks have: crappy 3D.

      God, I really wish someone would come out with a subnotebook, preferably a form factor like the Portege 2000/R100 series, or Vaio SR-series, or anything small and cool like you find on http://www.dynamism.com/ - but with some muscle for 3D, an Radeon mobility 9000 would be nice for instance. I don't care that much about processor speed, harddrive space, optical drive, etc.

      The closest I got was the 12" Powerbook, but Nvidia on P
    • I use a full three button mouse with my Powerbook when it's docked.

      However, using a laptop standalone I really prefer having one mouse button. I find it a lot easier to chord the mouse button using keys than constantly having my thumb reach for an annoyingly placeed second button, or hitting one when I meant to hit the other (which is what happens when both are convieniently placed).

      Seriously, even Windows laptops could benefit by just having one button and chording the others.
  • I've had several over the years, and they are excellent. Even better, IBM semi-officially supports Linux on the models that I've owned...
    (I.e. there are FAQs on IBM's support site discussing how to run Linux on the models I've used.)

  • Fujitsu and Sharp (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kris_J ( 10111 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:00PM (#6397529) Homepage Journal
    I've had on the whole positive experiences with both Fujitsu [dynamism.com] and Sharp [dynamism.com]. (I've linked to the latest models, not the ones I've used.) They may not be titanium, but they're solid and not overly bloated.

  • Alienware? (Score:5, Informative)

    by E1v!$ ( 267945 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:01PM (#6397537) Homepage

    With all the big names flying around, have you considered an Alienware [alienware.com] machine? They're not the lightest in the world but they look to be fairly high quality.

    They bill for games, but performance is performance.

    • Haven't seen their laptops, but their desktops are all right.

      As long as you don't mind paying twice the reasonable price for a computer they will take a year to deliver.
    • I'm own an Alienware Laptop, Area51m. If you compare prices around, you will see it is a really good deal if you want a powerful laptop. The tech support is great (they don't treat you like a moron or anything, and very helpful). The case itself doesn't feel very sturdy, but, i have been using mine for a year (yes, i was an early adopter), and I haven't have any problems. The only problem is the weight, it is almost 10 pounds (yikes). If you are looking for a very powerul desktop that looks like a laptop,
    • Unless they've changed, Alienware is one of those manufacturers that sticks a desktop version of the P4 into their machines. ALL of them. I know the Area 51m is such a machine.

      i.e. say goodbye to battery life and good thermal performance.
    • Did you read the original question? One of his selection criteria had to do with the fact that the Toshibas & Compaqs he saw were "grossly over-decorated", and yet these machines are like an elegant Frank Lloyd Wright construction when compared to the tacky monsters that Alienware specializes in.

      Are you saying that Alienware has a "still good quality but doesn't look like a pro wrestler's sunday suit" section of their catalog that they just don't, for whatever reason, care to share with the web-browsin

    • Re:Alienware? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Coke in a Can ( 577836 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @11:34AM (#6400588)
      Alienware resells Cleo (?) laptops, just like Sager and a few other manufacturers. Sager notebooks are the same quality, and $600 less in the case I configured. The exact model is the Sager 5670 (that alienware sells as the Area 51m). The support from powernotebooks.com, one of Sager's resellers, is really amazing.

      sager: sagernotebook.com
      powernotebooks: powernotebooks.com

  • check out Polywell (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:03PM (#6397556)
    They have some nice-looking laptops - especially their new Centrino-based [polywell.com] model.
  • I think you can even make binaries for windows with a mingw crosscompiler... Thank god for GCC!

  • same boat (Score:2, Insightful)

    by klupo ( 515382 )
    I was in the same boat you are in now and I chose the ibook, it's sweet, but I also needed to program for the intel platform. I bought a second machine ( a beefy workstation ) and I rdesktop into that fullscreen to do my programming. It works very great even over a wan if the bandwitdh is there. Get the ibook you won't regret it.

  • I bought a desktop replacement a month ago (Score:3, Informative)

    by gadfium ( 318941 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:03PM (#6397560)
    I researched what was available pretty extensively, and chose an IBM Thinkpad G40.

    I wanted something powerful, but this was for home, so price was very much a consideration. I looked hard at a couple of Toshiba's, and at the Dell range, but the IBM came in at a slightly lower price for the features I wanted, and I know from experience that Thinkpads are high quality. I did also look at the iBooks, but the prices were way too high for the feature set.

    For what it's worth, I wanted 40 Gb / 512 Mb/ DVD/CR-RW combo / 15" screen / XP Pro / 2 GHz or better processor. Size / Weight / battery life weren't an issue. The G40 I bought has a 2.4 GHz processor. Unlike most Thinkpads, it doesn't have removable drives. I was willing to cut the iBook some slack on processor speed (although the ones I tried in store were very slow; they were short on RAM as displayed).

    Relative price probably varies from country to country, and month to month, so if you live in a different country from me (probable), and since my purchase was a month ago, you might find something else works better for you.

  • Sager (Score:5, Informative)

    by MrProgrammer ( 165021 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:07PM (#6397575)
    I use a Sager notebook. Sturdy, inexpensive, and extremely powerful.

    Sager laptop owner forums [sagerforums.com]

    Sager reseller [pctorque.com]

    It may be a somewhat unknown brand, but I have been totally blown away with it. Check out the specs and the forums.

    • Re:Sager (Score:2, Interesting)

      by standsolid ( 619377 )
      amen to this. sager makes some excellent laptops. i see all these "get a thinkpad" posts. sure they are fantastic but....

      sager makes the best laptop for what you're lookign for. a friend of mine has one and that thing is nice to use.

  • why Porche of course ;) (Score:3, Informative)

    by Ratso Baggins ( 516757 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:11PM (#6397592) Homepage
    http://www.vprmatrix.com/products_notebook_200A5.a sp

  • This is expected... (Score:5, Informative)

    by OneFix ( 18661 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:36PM (#6397709)
    The thing you have to do is understand why IBM and Apple are at the top of their markets.

    One reason...they build their own Notebooks...take a look at this page [powernotebooks.com] and then you'll understand why...

    The short answer is Alienware, Toshiba, Dell, Compaq, etc are all made by the same companies...chances are they are all the same laptop.

    Sony, IBM, and Apple all used to design their own notebooks...Apple kind of has to (yet they still use ODMs to assemble their boxen), and Sony and IBM have started to slip recently (using some of Quanta's ODM systems).

    But if you want to find out how good the notebook is, find out who really made it.

    Of course, you can always buy from the site that I linked to. They will sell notebooks without an OS and even have a Linux Forum. Not to mention they have unmatched customer service.

  • How durable do you want? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Myself ( 57572 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:42PM (#6397744) Journal
    Let's be serious here, Apple laptops aren't all that durable. Two of my friends have had the screens break, one in a bookbag and one in a laptop bag. With a few exceptions, I'd say the average laptop now is a lot less durable than 10 years ago.

    I've picked up two used Panasonic Toughbooks on eBay and they've been attention-getters ever since. How many laptops can you stand on, throw across the room, use as hammers, and use in the rain, all while your favorite mp3s are playing?

    I'm a big form-follows-function guy. The Toughbooks are all black, magnesium alloy with rubber covers over the ports. They're elegant in the same way a Beretta pistol is a work of art.

    I've taken to keeping my Tougbook in a bag lately, not to protect it from the outside world, but to protect the outside world from it. The rubber feet came off the bottom some time ago, and the metal case has a tendency to mar floors if I drop it. I do that sometimes just for effect.

    I presently own two Toughbooks: a CF-25, which is a full-size machine (comparable to any other laptop). It's a Pentium 150 with a nice comfy keyboard, 1024x768 screen behind a polycarbonate sheet, three(!) PCMCIA slots, and a gel pad surrounding the hard drive, which I upgraded from 4 gig to 10. The lack of CardBus and USB finally forced me to upgrade to my present machine, which is a...

    CF-17, a Celeron 300 subnotebook. It's petite, the (touch)screen is only 800x600, and the keyboard takes some getting used to. With 128 meg and the 20 gig drive I dropped in it, it's more power than I need. (My desktop is only a 300MHz machine, for comparison.) It's got a single USB1.1 port, and I occasionally stick a 480Mb/s "hi speed" USB card in the slot when I need to use an external burner.

    There are of course more recent Toughbook models, up to Pentium III and probably faster, but my budget and needs are more modest. Lately Panasonic's come out with a few "semi"-rugged models, which translates to "beats the crap out of your Dell, but won't survive a 10' drop onto concrete like the others". They're worth looking into if you're not the type to occasionally toss a load of 2x4's into your truck without noticing the laptop sitting there.

    P.S. I'm not affiliated with Panasonic in any way, just a loyal customer. I could've probably sold a dozen of these machines to people who've been impressed by mine, I should see about becoming a dealer.

    • Re:How durable do you want? (Score:3, Informative)

      by mosch ( 204 ) *
      Well, speaking as a dealer who carries Panasonic Toughbooks, I must concur that they're excellent, high-quality laptops but you pay for the quality. A Toughbook 28 [panasonic.com] with a p3-800, 256MB, 30GB HD and 12.1" screen will run you somewhere between $4500 and $5000.
    • Yeah, they're not durable at all..
      You see, when my 200lbs-aunt kneed on my iBook, the screen just broke.. without any reason..

      Real men use computers made of steel.. err.. titanium !
  • I just picked up their NX-8640 and I've been
    VERY impressed. There is also the added benefit of
    being able to buy without an OS installed.

  • Thinkpad for sure (Score:3, Informative)

    by TThayer ( 310454 ) on Tuesday July 08, 2003 @11:59PM (#6397855) Homepage
    I work in a shop that sees a ton of desktop's and laptops alike, and the only ones I never see for hardware problems are the Thinkpads. I personally use a beefed up T20 w/a 900MHz PIII and a DVD/CDRW drive, and I couldn't imagine using another laptop (besides the 15" TiBook I lust over). They're built like tanks. I dropped my TP 600 prior to this one about 5 times from 4 feet up before I gave it to my mom. She still uses it for school. Just avoid the i series. They're built like compaqs.

  • A good friend of mine... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by theIG ( 647290 )
    ... was in the same situation. On pricewatch, he found a notebook from MicroPro, with a 2500+ (socketed no less), a 333Mhz fsb, Mobile Radeon 9000 64DDR, 60gig HD, and a really nice 15 inch screen. And if you go to pricewatch, and search for "MicroNote Professional 530", you can get it for under $1,200 dollars. It doesn't get the best battery life (around 2 hours and 10 minutes under normal use), and it's feels almost twice as heavy as my ibook, but it's a very cool machine.

    There are some things I don't

  • Fujitsu or IBM (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Penis_Envy ( 62993 )
    I bought a P2110 a year or so ago, and it was the best laptop I have ever owned (albeit a little slow.) Their laptops tend to use magnesium over cheap, flimsy plastic (dell, the 8100 -- piece of junk) and are well put together, all at a reasonable price. I recently purchased a P5010D, which is almost as good quality as the P2110.

    If you want to spend money, and not on two fujitsu laptops, go with IBM. They use decent plastic and good designs. They are some of the more intelligently designed laptops out

  • Flimsy ? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by drsmithy ( 35869 ) <drsmithy&gmail,com> on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:44AM (#6398077)
    I've got a work Dell Latitude D600 here, and it's anything but "flimsy". The case is metal (Tri-Metal(tm) to be precise), and has basically no flex (very different to my old TiBook, which flexed considerably). It's (marginally) smaller and lighter than a 14" iBook, and considerably more powerful. OTOH, it's also more expensive :).

    However, you should be able to find a comparable and cheaper machine in its lower-end brother, the D500.

  • You just need to get a dell and install Oracle... (Score:3, Funny)

    by anthony_dipierro ( 543308 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:49AM (#6398101) Journal
    After all, just like the Slashdot ad says, Oracle makes laptops unbreakable.

  • IBM Thinkpad - another "for" vote (Score:3, Informative)

    by peter hoffman ( 2017 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:53AM (#6398122) Homepage

    I recommend the IBM Thinkpad as well. I hated laptops but I have just spent two years using a 600X and it has made a convert out of me. I just bought a certified pre-owned T30 of my own from the IBM web site.

    My only real complaint is that I didn't get the !@#$% CDROMs for the Windows XP that is installed on it. You are supposed to be satisfied with the recovery partition. The story is if you have a problem with the recovery partition, and the system is under warranty, IBM will fix it ASAP. What I want to know is what am I supposed to do if it's 2:00 in the morning or if the unit is no longer under warranty?

    Also, it is possible for the system to get to the point where you can't boot to access the recovery partition. In that case you are supposed to use a recovery floppy - except there is no floppy drive on the system and there's no documentation on what to put on a bootable CDROM (the floppy is built by some utility)!

    Even if I wanted to pay for it twice and I bought a retail copy of XP I still lose because now I don't have the IBM-specific drivers and utilities.

    Of course, IBM is not the company sticking it to people here, that "honor" belongs to Microsoft and their utterly delusional paranoia that someone might steal a copy of Windows. You can hardly get a PC that doesn't come with Windows and by the time a new version of Windows comes out your hardware that is running the previous version is obsolete so there is very little reason to actually steal Windows.

  • Powerbook with VirtualPC... no, really! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bethorphil ( 241623 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:54AM (#6398129) Homepage
    I am also a professional programmer, so I can relate to your worries about development restrictions on a non-PC platform. I've been running VirtualPC on my second-hand TiBook for awhile now, and I can testify that it works quite well for PC development purposes.

    On a 667 Mhz laptop, i can use visual studio without complaints. Yes, it's slower than it would be on a P4 notebook. Let me tell you why I don't care: optimization! ...I find I write better code on trailing-edge hardware, because any speed issues become extremely obvious where the same code would SEEM fine on my Athlon box.

    But then again, maybe I'm a maniac. ;-)

    Anyway, based on my experience, I'd suggest that you not rule Apple out yet... Unless you're doing hardware drivers or video games, the emulation won't be a huge issue... And the reliability and design on these laptops are almost everything the zealots say they are :-). Check out the Connectix web site [connectix.com] if you're interested in more info.

    • You're an Apple zealot recommending a Microsoft product? :-)

      Seriously, I agree with the "give programmers slow computers" bit. To get the best code, give 'em slower computers with lots of fancy add-ons (multiple monitors, etc) so that you get efficient code that properly supports everything.

  • IBM store on eBay (Score:3, Informative)

    by bobbozzo ( 622815 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @12:58AM (#6398155)
    IBM has an eBay store [ebay.com], where they sell LOTS of laptops.

    You said you like their laptops, but they are expensive, so you might want to check it out. They sell both new and factory refurbished stuff there.

  • IBM Thinkpad R40 (Score:3, Informative)

    by cotcomsol ( 7395 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:00AM (#6398159) Homepage
    I just bought an IBM Thinkpad R40 a couple months ago, and all I can say is it's great. Works wonderfully out of the box with Linux and FreeBSD, is very fast (Pentium M), great battery life (around 4-5 hours), very nice screen, and great construction. I've been impressed. It's a big step up from my previous Compaq Presario, and not significantly more expensive.

  • That's easy . . . (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Cokelee ( 585232 ) on Wednesday July 09, 2003 @01:04AM (#6398182)

    They don't exist.

    Next question . . .

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • If you're looking for durable, go with the GoBook MAX [itronix.com]. It's made out of very tough materials and you can just hose it down if it gets dirty. Otherwise, I can't help you since I bought a PowerBook.
  • I just thought I would throw in my two cents and also vote for the Thinkpad. I've administered well over 25 of them and continue to recommend them over just about any other laptop on the market. They are simply more well-built than pretty much every other laptop out there.

    For the people who are saying Thinkpads are too expensive, I just got word of a deal today on the Thinkpad T40. This is from PC Connection, which is an IBM reseller. (I don't work there, but my friend has a business account with them.) Th
  • If you are going to use Linux, or even going to think about considering the possibility you might think about using Linux, avoid Toshiba. I have a Satellite S2670DVD and even friendly, clever SuSE 8.1 was a major pain to install - I still don't have the graphics system running optimal. The PCMCIA port is on the right hand side, so if you are right handed and use a mouse, you keep hitting the network cable. The DVD drive is regularly confused with a starting airplane. The list goes on -- just trying to find
  • To get the best of two worlds, buy an iBook and Virtual PC.

    Recent releases of Virtual PC are working amazingly well. Yes, it's an emulation, but no, it's not slow. Visual Studio runs flawlessly if this is what you need.

  • <Disclaimer>I work for Dell</disclaimer>
    Now that I have that out of the way, you should look at the Latitude C640. That thing is a rock, just about the right size and you can upgrade the heck out of it. Then again, when I goto Fry's, I drool over those iBooks, but they are a bit out of range for me. :(
    The IBM thinkpads I've seen all belonged to friends of mine. They were pretty old(circa 1996), but sturdy and still alive and kicking.
    • Oh god no. My company standardized on the Dell C640 and I just got one. Almost every day I seriously think about going back to my old IBM 600X. The cheap plastic case of the Dell is exactly that- cheap plastic. The flex on the palm rest above the cdrom drive is horrible. The damned thing runs so hot, I have to put a book between it and my lap. The onboard Winmodem (not every hotel has ethernet) doesn't work under Linux. Suspend/Standby doesn't seem to work under Linux either, although I haven't given

  • I won't repeat the things others have said about laptops from both Apple and IBM, although I will give you a few anecdotes:

    1) I'm an IT guy for a small medical company. Every so often we pick up used laptops for cheap -- we're an NGO, so that counts as an in-kind donation -- and usually, they're IBM's. Crazier still, these laptops that were build sometimes close to a DECADE ago still work fine, and their screens have no burned-out pixels. I hate Windows at this point (having made the switch to Mac OSX

  • Eurocom Laptop .. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by MadX ( 99132 )
    http://www.eurocom.ca

    'Nuf said ..

  • Are they really as cheap and flimsy as all that? Based on previous happy experiences with Dell workstations, I've recommended their laptops to friends, and now I fear my ass is on the line. :)
    Oh well, that's what I get for trying to look omniscient.

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