Property Rights and the MSDN PDA Give-Away? 95
An anonymous reader asks: "MSDN subscribers recently qualified for a free Viewsonic V37 PDA (supposedly, around 25,000 units were given away). The software development group, at my company, just received our shipments; however, now there is contention between the developers and the company over who owns the PDAs.
The company I work for (a worldwide information technology and services company) contends that that they own the PDAs because they were obtained through a subscription purchased by the company and, therefore, the PDAs are company property (and so all company policies governing the use of their property applies). This upset quite a few developers in my group who were excited to have a new gadget to work/play with and now any tinkering must be approved by the company. So, who owns the PDAs -- the developers who found out about the promotion, filled out the forms, paid for the stamps, on their own initiative, etc. or the company who purchased the MSDN subscriptions to make the developers eligible for the 'free' promotion? Also, I am curious to find out if others are having similar debates at their respective companies. Details of the offer can be found here."
Get a new company (Score:1)
Any company that doesn't let you tinker with your company owned hardware sounds like a pretty shitty place to work.
The fact that they are making such a big deal about this just reinforces that.
Re:Get a new company (Score:3, Funny)
My company let us keep 'em (Score:1, Insightful)
I don't think they (the PHB's) understood that Microsoft is not simply giving away PDA's to make people happy that they are MS developers. Instead, I think MS is giving them away as yet another way to 0wn a market.
Consider the reverse (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevermind the fact that you probably don't want to lose your job over a PDA.
Re:Consider the reverse (Score:1)
1. The UPC code (clipped off the box)
2. The serial number of the camera
3. A copy of the receipt
4. Super secret hidden rebate code printed somewhere inside the box
And about 100 other things before you could even think about sending in the rebate. Even then you're most likely not going to get a check from the rebate company.
Re:Consider the reverse (Score:2)
OP: Who leaked the word (Score:5, Insightful)
Two thoughts
1. Who the fsck told anybody with any sort of authority about the PDAs? If I have to guess I would say that there are only half a dozen or less licenses at your company and thus only half a dozen (or less) PDAs - and probably no more PDAs than people in the IT department who would be getting them. The boxes come in, go directly to IT and you little weasles tear them open and start playing with your new toys - nobody else needs to know. Whoever leaked this to the managers needs to be blackballed, cause it cost you guys your toys (an important aspect of being IT.) Maybe it was the seventh guy on the totem pole, the guy that didn't get one and he was jealous, or maybe
2. SkyMiles. Whoever is making these decisions is a manager - and managers fly places. Now you are not in a position to be making demands, but if there is any leverage for discussion on the matter right now you need to turn it around into a language they understand : business perks. If your company lets the manager keep his SkyMiles when he flies for business, even though they are rightfully an extension to the ticket bought by the company, so he can later use the miles for personal travel or whatever
Re:OP: Who leaked the word (Score:1)
Charismatic? IT? LOL, nice.
Re:OP: Who leaked the word (Score:2)
Re:OP: Who leaked the word (Score:2)
If they find out - apply the findings of this entire thread.
Re:Consider the reverse (Score:2)
Yes, this reminds me of similar situations here. If someone buys, say, a printer or computer for the company through Dell, and Dell offers a monetary rebate (say, $100) for filling out a simple form, no way in hell is that rebate property of the person who sent it in. That's essentially stealing from the company.
trick question? (Score:2)
Company policies (Score:3, Interesting)
Also seen companies that claim they own the frequent-flier miles that employees accumulate, since they paid for the tickets.
Seems like an unpleasant work environment. They'd probably do better to let the employees make use of things that don't cost the company extra. Certainly helps morale, which in turn helps productivity.
Re:Company policies (Score:1)
The Federal Government is a small, little, company with this policy.
Re:Company policies (Score:2)
See here. [gsa.gov]
Re:Company policies (Score:2)
A coworker was given a portfolio with our SAN vendor's name on the cover and he just gave it to me and said "keep it away from work." Had the wrong person seen it, he could have easily been fired over that. Unpleasant? Yes. Essential from a civil service/financially accountable point
Re:Company policies (Score:2)
Back in the day, there was no such thing as personal email addresses, but times have changed. Keep your personal stuff off the company's computers, you'll be better off for it in the long run.
All together now..... (Score:5, Insightful)
We are not a lawyer...
Slashdot is not a lawyer...
I doubt you'll get anything, since the company paid for the merchandise. If you get a "buy one, get one free" your neighbor who told you about the offer doesn't get your freebie. You could ask for the cost of the stamp, but that's about all you'll get. The best you can hope for is to ask for an exemption and to the usage policy and let you tinker with it.
This annoys me so much, I'm tempted to think the question is a troll. Does anyone really think that the PDA wouldn't belong to the company?
Re:All together now..... (Score:3, Insightful)
I agree with you that the PDA technically belongs to the company. However, every place I've ever worked has let prizes of this sort go to the employee. Your company pays for you to go to a trade show and you drop your card in someone's fishbowl, winning a DVD player/PDA/Microsoft Inflatable Girlfriend/whatever. I've never known a company that tried to take that aw
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
But "winning a DVD player/PDA/Microsoft Inflatable Girlfriend/whatever" isn't part of the contract for the trade show entry.
And "Microsoft Inflatable Girlfriend"? **Insert BSOD joke here.**
Re:All together now..... (Score:3, Funny)
I was thinking more along the lines of an uptime joke myself...
-- Pete.
An old joke I coined whilst working for Sema (Score:3, Funny)
UNIX boys keep it up longer but Windows will go down on you regardless.
Stephen
Re:All together now..... (Score:1)
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
Re:All together now..... (Score:1)
A drawing at a trade show is usually won by the person, not by the company. The key is the "No puchase necessary" line. If you dropped in your friend's business card who happened to be at home, your friend would probably still get the drawing's prize. If the prize was based on
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
Re:All together now..... (Score:4, Insightful)
Reminds me of one company I worked for. A large hardware manufacturer donated a dozen or so PDAs to our development group. They weren't quite a perk per se; said hardware manufacturer was just getting into PDAs, and they gave us the hardware and associated SDKs for free, to see what we'd come up with by way of cool applications. Then, we'd go to market together. It was more like seeding developers than giving away freebies.
All those PDAs ended up in the attache cases of non-technical managers. No applications, cool or otherwise, for that platform were ever developed by the company. In fact, it doesn't produce much by way of anything anymore. Exactly the same thing happened when a handset manufacturer gave the developers their latest phones too.
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
I know first hand how much a blow this can be. I go to a trade show, was given a free software title, only to have it taken by the company since that paid for my ticket. I've since left and have been nothing but glad that I did.
Re:All together now..... (Score:2)
Two weeks after he gets it, the manager is going to lose interest and put it in a drawer where it will stay until all usefulness from the PDA has long been depreciated (ie, like a 486 computer would be considered now) and
Re:All together now..... (Score:1)
...other than a pink slip. Complain loudly enough, and they just might give you the boot. This doesn't sound like the kind of environment where you complain about this and get what you want.
Answered your own question (Score:2, Informative)
Ding. Congratulations. Thank you for playing.
You have learned "The Golden Rule". He who has the gold, makes the rules.
Don't like it? Pay for your own subscriptions then get your own free stuff.
Ummmm... (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, were it my decision to make at your company, I would let you have them; it is a windfall, and would make for a good faith gesture on the company's part.
But, if the company paid for the subscription, and this is a realized, tangible benefit of that subscription, then it is the company's property.
Look at it like this; the toy is not Truly Free, or I (not having an MSDN subscription) would have been eligible
Besides, if you paid nothing, either for the subscription, or for the toy itself, where do you get your sense of entitlement?
Of course, for what it is worth, if the company wants to own the toys, they owe you some stamps
Of course, since it came from Micro$oft, you could make a valid argument that you bartered your soul for it
Re:Ummmm... (Score:1)
Suppose a company provides their workers with free soft drinks, and an employee happens to win a large sweepsstakes from some sort of under-the-cap game.
Who gets the money?
Re:Ummmm... (Score:2)
In this case, I don't think the company has given the MSDN subscribtions to the employees. They could be transfered to someone else if an employee leaves the company.
Re:Ummmm... (Score:1)
Actualy I have MSDN it is licenced to me. And me only. If I leave then technicaly the company is out of luck. Think it is not possable? Go read the EULA again.
Re:Ummmm... (Score:2)
I think that the prize technically belongs to the company, just as it would if you used the company's internet connection, or email, or whatever to participate in a drawing, or whatever. Just as it would if you participated in a contest on company time.
But I think that it would, in general, be in the company's best interests to let the employee keep the winnings; just because you have a right, does not mean
Be happy.... (Score:4, Funny)
You are joking right? (Score:2)
Quite simply, the PDAs are the property of the company simply because it was their subscription that paid for them. Therefore they have the say over what does and does not happen with them. Just because you and your buddies saw the offer doesn't give you ownership. Thats like me claiming your rebate on a
Re:You are joking right? (Score:2)
Just be sure that when you do, you only take the toys that belong to you, and not your company.
On a similar note... (Score:2)
Who owns the frequent flyer miles? The company who paid for the tickets or the traveler who risked deep vein thrombosis?
I think the answers to these questions are the same answer you seek.
Re:On a similar note... (Score:2)
Re:On a similar note... (Score:2)
I'm still confused on this. My boss does this stuff all the time. Just yesterday, she gave me 2 spindles of CD's to use. One was some no-name, one was TDK. The no-name was still shrink wrapped, the TDK's were missing the shrink wrap and UPC. Hmm. I remember seeing TDK's on rebate sale somewhere this week...
She's always slow to buy stuff we need, except when there is a rebat
Re:I am lucky... (Score:2)
ask microsoft.. (Score:2)
Re:ask microsoft.. (Score:2, Insightful)
It probably is in this case. It previously belonged to Microsoft. Microsoft was entitled to give it away to whoever they wanted. Essentially, it belongs to whoever MS thinks they gave them to.
sounds like ms wants the developer to have it. (Score:5, Interesting)
Q. My company or organization has multiple licenses for an eligible product via an Open, Select or Enterprise Agreement. Can I (or someone else) enter multiple registrations to take advantage of this offer?
A. No, this offer is for individual end-users only. If your company or organization has multiple licenses for an eligible product, please ask your end-users to register their product individually through this site. You cannot register someone else on his or her behalf.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
I vote company (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:I vote company (Score:2)
If I buy a lottery ticket on company time and win the first prize, is the company is entitled to take the money? I think not! If a co-worker gives me a bar of chocolate, if is my boss entitled to grap it out of my hands and scoff it? I think not!
It has been reported that Microsoft say that the offer is open to individual end-u
Re:I vote company (Score:2)
Do you think that you'd be entitled to the mail-in rebate for a product purchased by the company just because you filled in the coupon?
Re:I vote company (Score:2)
Re:I vote company (Score:4, Insightful)
Your employees carry a fully burdened cost (salary plus expenses like benefits, etc.) of $300 per day. These PDA are basically a windfall, one of your resourceful developers found out about the promotion and sent in the paperwork. Didn't cost the company anything extra because the time lost doing that was pretty much taken from his slashdot time, not productive time.
Is it really worth pissing off half a dozen developers over a toy with a street value of less than what you pay these guys in a single day. Trust me, they are going to hold a grudge. For a while. Maybe for a year. You could (in theory) lose 20% of the total efficiency of half a dozen developers (20% of pretty close to half a million dollars a year burn rate in fully burdened cost is roughly $100,000) in lost productivity because you have managed to cause a rift between you and them over $0 (actual cost to your company) in PDA toys.
Do a benefit / cost ratio comparing what you will get out of keeping the PDAs away from the guys that showed the initiative in obtaining them, to what you will get out of just giving them to them and being genuinely happy about letting them keep them.
Then vote again, we will give you a 'do over.'
Geez, haven't figured out the answer yet? (Score:2, Funny)
will get half of each PDA and the person who won it gets
the other half of the PDA.
Geez, like that was tough to figure out.
Re:Geez, haven't figured out the answer yet? (Score:1)
will get half of each PDA and the person who won it gets
the other half of the PDA.
Thanks Newman you are so wise and learned...
I dodged the bullet in a similar situation (Score:1, Interesting)
When there, they announced they were going to be giving away an HP LogicDart - a $800 logic analyzer.
While we were all eating lunch (provided as part of the seminar) I commented that I hoped that I would win the Dart, as unlike the bulk of the people attending I would have clear ownership.
Guess what - I did indeed win it!
Funny thing though
You think this is bad? (Score:2, Interesting)
A few years ago he won the same contest, and his boss took a brand new BMW.
Why he doesn't quit, I don't know.
Re:You think this is bad? (Score:1)
He gets a three week long vacation from his boss! If my boss was that much of a jerk I'd take every opprotunity to send him away for 3 weeks!
Re:You think this is bad? (Score:1)
The prize should have been raffled away. (Score:2)
Most of the time prizes and gifts are appropriated by the company in accordance with company policy, but in most cases the prizes are raffled off among employees. This is fair when someone is given a prize that was based off of a group effort. Every employee / team member contributed, so everyone has a fair shot at reaping the prize reward.
When the boss enacts company policy, confiscates a prize, and then reallocates the prize to
Re:You think this is bad? (Score:1)
Where's my PDA? I registered for that too... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Where I work... (Score:2)
How valuable are these things? (Score:2)
Frankly, I can't see the point in making a fuss over it.
Re:How valuable are these things? (Score:2)
Sounds like COI (Score:3, Interesting)
In my opinion, though, I think the company is foolish for trying to claim the PDA's. Most places can't budget an occasional $20 for pizza for their employees, so being able to give people a cool gift for $0 out of their pocket seems like a pretty good deal.
Your employer owns it! (Score:3, Insightful)
When I filled out my forms and sent in my reciept I knew full well that my company owned the device. Luckily my company didn't care about them and let us developers keep them.
Re:Your employer owns it! (Score:1)
Re:Your employer owns it! (Score:2)
Now if I were to purchase the MSDN subscription out of my own pocket then it would be mine. But since I am using a tools that my company paid for and I recieve a free device because of the tools my company pays for
Re:Your employer owns it! (Score:1)
Re:Your employer owns it! (Score:2)
Re:Your employer owns it! (Score:2)
No purchase necessary? (Score:3, Insightful)
If it did, then it should make it obvious that the MSDN subscription only facilitated the entry into the contest, but was not required, and therefore the spoils should go to the individuals.
Re:No purchase necessary? (Score:1)
In the same boat... (Score:1, Interesting)
AFTER THAT, though, said toy is then given away to one of that employee's group as kind of a (free) raffle. (ie. If a developer won the prize, any and all developers are eligible, but NOT say Upper Management or the nice cleaning lady.)
The logic is t
Possible conflict of interest issue (Score:1)
Depending on the standing policy they may be able to force you to throw them in the trash, destroy them, or return them. Maybe they could fire you on the spot for actively seeking and accepting the gift! I vote that you can keep your job and
Re:Possible conflict of interest issue (Score:1)
your own fault and be careful (Score:2)
I think - unfortunately for you - the company owns the property. In general, the company can be said to own gifts and other items that are related to your activities in the course of business, but most of the time you're allowed to keep them for yourself (I'm thinking of christmas gifts, etc) in so far as it doesn't look like it's cause com
What is your company guidelines? (Score:2)
I'd say the PDAs in your case would belong to the company, but thos
How it should have been done. (Score:1)