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Television Media Technology

Plasma TVs vs. LCD Projectors for Your Home Entertainment? 91

Posted by Cliff from the which-one-would-you-buy dept.
Kent Brewster asks: "We're working on making the presence of a TV set in our living room as unobtrusive as possible. The two main flat-or-invisible screen choices seem to be plasma and LCD projection. Gateway has a $3000 42-inch plasma screen, but I see ominous comments on Usenet about how that one's not really an HDTV and therefore to be avoided. Projector Xpress has a page of Sony projectors that are at or around that $3000 mark, and the street price for a home system that's HDTV-compatible seems to be working its way down to $1000. I would love to hear from anyone who's actually owned one of the Gateway models and might be willing to discuss pros and cons; same goes for anyone who's watching TV on a video projector. How's your bulb life, and what do they cost? Is the thing hot and noisy? Was it hard to set up? Have you integrated it with your home theater? Are you using a screen, or just shooting it onto the wall? If I do this, am I going to feel like an idiot a couple of years from now when LED bulbs replace everything?"
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Plasma TVs vs. LCD Projectors for Your Home Entertainment? More

Plasma TVs vs. LCD Projectors for Your Home Entertainment?

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  • Fog screen? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by retostamm ( 91978 )
    Maybe you want a Fog Screen? [slashdot.org]

  • Google found this... (Score:3, Informative)

    by HavokDevNull ( 99801 ) <ericNO@SPAMlinuxsystems.net> on Thursday August 21, 2003 @05:48PM (#6759329) Homepage Journal
    And I have done most of my reseach for a projector from this page. http://www.projectorcentral.com/ [projectorcentral.com]

    in which I'm very happy with my InFocus X1
    • I've also seriously considered the X1, after reading the projectorcentral reviews. What screen size are you projecting on? How does it compare to a 65" HDTV in terms of contrast and pixelation? Most importantly, do DVDs look good on it?
      • I even got one for work too great little projectors.. Some pixelation if you stand about a foot away or put your nose on the screen. Sceen size 60"x80"

        I have only one complaint it is a little dark in video mode. So you have to keep the room very dark. It has Great color, all in all for the $$$ it is worth it.

        If you want to spend 4 times as much the new 3m projectetor here [insight.com]
        is 3500 lumens which is brighter than the $10K big boys ;)
        • > It has Great color, all in all for the $$$ it is worth it.
          > If you want to spend 4 times as much [...]

          That's the thing, cost/benefit curves are rarely linear. The incremental benefit of spending another $2000 will buy you a lot less than those first $1000 did. It's called compromise. Especially since this tech changes at a fairly fast clip, you have to ask yourself if you want to spend $1000 or $3000 every three years or so.
          • Well one thing about projectors is that my X1 will beat out many of the $5000 projectors. That new 3M for $4k is the latest. And that one beats many of the $10k ones. The speed in which technology in projectors is catching up to the same speed as CPU's.

            Last year there were only 2 different types of projector technologies, this year there are 3 for instance.

            But as always you should go down and view any TV or Projector before you buy.
  • If you look on the page, only the 50" is labeled as HD.

    • Re:42" not HDTV (Score:5, Informative)

      by PsychoI3oy ( 237745 ) <PsychoI3oy AT linkline DOT com> on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:00PM (#6759439) Journal
      IAAFGE*

      the 42 inch is HD compatable, meaning it will accept a component input that's HD and downconvert it to the TV's native format, EDTV. EDTV = 480p, or standard resolution but progressive scan. HDTV = 780p or 1060i. having viewed HDTV signal (from dish network) on said plasma screen, i can say that it looks awesome, and might be a good set now while the cable companies & TV stations sort out the transition to being fully HD. for reference, all (most?) DVDs are EDTV, such that any dvd with a progressive scan player hooked to the gateway or a $6k sony/philips/whatever will look nearly identical. can't speak to much on the projector issue, but i've heard bulbs can be rather costly, and ambient light is always a consideration. the gateway 42" plasmas are in their 3rd if not 4th generation, and previous complaints about contrast ratio and how 'black' the darkest colors are have been addressed, such that owners of older models might be complaining about issues not present in the one you'd buy today.

      hope this helps.

      other features in the gateway TV: standard analog tuner, inboard speakers (pointing out the sides of the tv, but not bad sounding at all), wall mount bracket was $179 when i left, they may have changed the price, extended warranty options, including accidental damage protection (trust me, you dont' want to have to pay to get it fixed), a host of monster cables available, professional installation available, standard floor stands if you don't feel like haning it on a wall. etc.

      *I Am A Former Gateway Employee
      • HDTV = 780p or 1060i
        Actually, HDTV = 720p or 1080i. By the way, you might want to familiarize yourself with the Shift key; it does wonders for readability.
        • I wasn't 100% sure about the numbers but knew they were close, thanks for fixing them. As for the shift key, I use it when I feel it's necesary, and IM conversations and slashdot posts rarely seem formal enough to warrant such grammar nazism. But I will make an effort for you.

  • Not LED Bulbs... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GoRK ( 10018 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @05:57PM (#6759415) Homepage Journal
    Not LED bulbs, buddy... Laserbeams!

    The in-development technology will use lasers fired at scanning, switching MEMS mirrors to produce an image. It's kind of a cross between DLP, laser scanners, and nanotech.

    The best part about it? No lens. No bulbs to replace (Though your lasers might burn up), and your throw distance can be basically any length without the distortion you'd get out of traditional optics trying to do the same thing. Want a 100 inch picture three feet away from the projector? No problemo.

  • projector all the way (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bonewalker ( 631203 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @05:59PM (#6759423)
    I use an NEC LT-150 projector with 800 lumens. I am thrilled with it. It uses DLP technology and is HDTV ready.

    Also, I have hooked it up to my home theater and watched crystal clear DVD's on the size of my wall, played my PS2 on it, and used it as my computer screen on occasion when playing some games. It works perfectly in all of those scenarios.

    I have even pointed it outside and the picture was stunning up against the neighbor's house...it was at least 40 ft wide and 25 feet tall!

    Also, it is a very small device. Much smaller than InFocus' stuff. Very easy to hide, or remove and put away until you need it.

    Best part is they are available on ebay for less than or close to $1000.

    • I use an NEC LT-150 projector with 800 lumens.

      Do you live at the bottom of a lightless system of caves, or what? Even under 60w incandescents, 800 lumens can hardly be seen.
      • Yea, I'm wondering if the one for sale on ebay isn't his....
        • Ha, pretty funny guys.

          I pointed that fact out to let you know that the projector works well, looks great, and is easily seen in the daytime even with only 800 lumens.

          • Bullshit.

            800 Lumens has almost no contrast in 60w light. If you indeed are happy with the 800 lumens unit, even in daytime (which still is quite dark at the bottom of a system of lightless caves), I would challenge your ability to see, think, or put rational ideas together.

            No personal offense, but I just think you are so full of shit that I smell it over the cable modem.
            • FYI. In a movie theater, the actual ouput that hits the screen is 16-18 footlamberts.

              800 is what you might see from the projector at the bulb. As you move away it will be much less.

              And if contrast is what you are concerned with, go with the darkest room, and the smallest screen for the best ratio.
      • Movies were meant to be watched with the lights turned off.

        My projector is only rated 600 lumens and I love it.

  • Recommendations (Score:5, Informative)

    by 90XDoubleSide ( 522791 ) <ninetyxdoublesid ... minus herbivore> on Thursday August 21, 2003 @05:59PM (#6759430)
    If you have the room for a projector, and are willing to have a giant screen in your room, then there's no reason not to go with one and get a three to four times as big of a picture. If you're willing to go up to about $4,000, shop around and see if you can find an InFocus Screenplay 5700. It's MSRPed at $5K, and I know plenty of places sell it for $4K, maybe you could find a good deal to bring it down further. It's a 16:9 widescreen, DLP projector running at 1024x768 with HDTV support up to 1080p, recommended for use with a 100" screen. http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_screenplay _5700.htm

  • Check plasmatvbuyingguide.com (Score:4, Informative)

    by oni ( 41625 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:01PM (#6759444) Homepage
    This site [plasmatvbuyingguide.com] has a point by point comparison of plasma and LCD. If I understand correctly all digital televisions, be they CRT, LCD or plasma can display HDTV. However, if the screen does not have the same number of pixels or the same aspect ratio of HDTV then the picture will be adjusted. FWIW I don't think I'd pay much extra for a very few extra pixels. If the best value was non-HDTV that's what I'd get. It will still display HDTV programs if I understand correctly.
    • 1: Yes, they can display HDTV "signals".

      2: The lower resolution is often called "EDTV", for "enhanced definition". The EDTV/HDTV resolution price difference is around $3k vs $6k.

      3: It is not just a "very few extra pixels" as you call it. The resolution difference is more like 1366x768 vs 852x480. That's about 1.7x in each dimension, and 3x total pixel count by area. On a computer, I'm sure you'd agree that's a phenomenal difference.

  • XGA DLP (Score:4, Informative)

    by i_am_nitrogen ( 524475 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:11PM (#6759514) Homepage Journal
    I'm very happy with my XGA DLP projector (Plus UP-1100P business projector with modifications to improve home theater quality). I've got it mounted from a vaulted ceiling using two unistrut (U-shaped channel with holes in it) lengths and threaded rod for adjustment, so mine's not too invisible. I use a 110" diagonal 4:3 painted area for my screen (88x66"). I just used flat white paint from Lowes. There is a place called Screen Goo that makes paint designed for projectors; on there you can find some cool pictures of a house where the projection screen was integrated into the room decor by painting it on the wall, with a decorative border. Without the projector on it just looks like a landscape with a white area and then clouds above. You can get some high-grade glass and put the projector in another room, with just a small hole in the wall, for noise elimination and complete removal of any sign of electronics (except for speakers, of course).

    • Please elaborate on the "modifications to improve ht quality".

      Thanks.

      • Re:XGA DLP (Score:2, Informative)

        by i_am_nitrogen ( 524475 )
        The modifications were ordered by the previous owner of the projector. They were made by someone who goes by the name of "Thumper" on the AVS forum. I believe that the usual modifications were realignment of the optics (though I think my optics are once again misaligned, as on the left side of the image the colors are separated by about two-thirds of a pixel in a prism-like fashion), and addition of a mask around the DLP chip to reduce halo. There may have been other things done to improve the contrast r

  • 4 years ago (Score:5, Informative)

    by ballpoint ( 192660 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:20PM (#6759577)
    I faced the same choice. Plasma was > 15000$ while SXGA projectors were around 6000$.

    I went for an LCD projector, installed upside down (in ceiling mode) and projecting onto a 100" diagonal pull-down screen. DVD playback via PC VGA out; TV/Video S-Video in). 5x100W RMS + 150W RMS sub sound system with excellent speakers.

    I've watched around 400 DVDs by now. Haven't changed the lamp yet. The power supply broke down once (300$ repair) and the projector has developed a nasty 'shadow'. Fixing it is quoted 2000$ so this is out of the question. (I could fix it myself; probably a leaky capacitor in the A/D conversion but the schematics are not available)

    What I don't like:
    - steep projector repair prices (avoid InFocus ?).
    - screen is not quite flat causing waving lines.
    - darkening the room is mandatory (problematic in summer)
    - projector and PC are noisy (tho my sound system can easily overwhelm them)
    - watching non-HD TV. The quality sucks.
    - not suitable for 'background' TV viewing.

    All in all I've had a very good time (at about $10/hour in viewing costs), and while prices have come down significantly I don't regret my 'investment'.

    A TV and a home theatre are very different things. So when HDTV becomes available I think I'd go for plasma.

  • rear-projection dlp (Score:4, Informative)

    by honold ( 152273 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:27PM (#6759614)
    - no concerns about light control. if you're using a front projector, your room has to be DARK.

    - no concerns about burn-in. unlike plasma, lcd, and crt (direct view and rear projection) the screen cannot have an image burned into it. watch blackboxed 4x3 television, play video games, and watch channels with static logos without having to deliberately balance your viewing.

    - lightweight. samsung's flagship 61" rpdlp set weighs only 100 lbs. a 40" wega direct view crt weighs 300 lbs (and most of the weight is in the front of the unit).

    - little calibration required for optimal viewing. most alternative sets need numerous factory menu tweaks in order to get acceptable color levels.

    - inexpensive. compare the prices :)

    - dvi-hdcp interface for future-proofed hdtv compatibility. also a perfect pixel reproduction as a monitor.

    the only maintenance needed is a $250 lamp every 2-3 years. i know a lot of these comparisons have been in contrast to front projection, but they should all be weighed.

    look at samsung's rpdlp site [samsungusa.com] (they're the only major people pushing the sets so far), hit the avs forum [avsforum.com] for much better advice than you'll get here, and then check them out at your local store. most major department stores (best buy, circuit city, etc) have them on display unlike front projection units.
    • Is this 61" Samsung the one that will -only- do 720p? Everything else is converted to 720p for display?

      If yes, how do you like it? Do you notice the conversion from 1080i, or any other resolution?

      I love the looks and specs of this TV... I with I could get it in something like 1600x1200 though!

      • Do you notice the conversion from DVD's 720x480 to your PC monitor's 1600x1200? No? Then you won't notice this either. The scaler in these things is probably at least as good as a basic PC video card, which is good enough for most semi-AV-enthusiastic people. Hardcore fanatics will, of course, never be satisfied until they're using a $20000 scaler/deinterlacer with their $45000 projector on $100/sqft screen material with a $250000 speaker/amp system.

      • Re:rear-projection dlp (Score:2, Interesting)

        by macado ( 114240 )
        Samsung does the conversion from 1080i to 720p as well as other formats extremely well and in my opinion. Not noticeable at all. There is a lot of speculation over which HD format is technically superior 720p or 1080i because while 1080i features more horizontal lines, it is still interlaced. The HD format 720p is progressive scan, so in theory the image is sharper with less flicker. Personally, I like 720p but your mileage will vary. They're both very good formats. If your hooking a DVD player up to a
    • The major downside is the 15 degree viewing angle.
      • Try somewhere close to 160 degrees, at least thats what Samsung boasts. The viewing angle of their DLP sets tend to be much better than most conventional rear projection televisions.

        -macado
        • I was talking about a viewing angle that doesn't kill the contrast or color balance. Samsung's DLP unit is head and shoulders above most other rear-projector units, however.
    • I've seen one of these puppies in a local Future Shop, and it's flat-out gorgeous.

      I wonder if they'll ever make one minus the speakers and tuner hardware - just a monitor - to bring the price down a little.

      DG

  • Plasma and high elevations = bad (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Drakino ( 10965 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:31PM (#6759656) Journal
    If you are at a high elevation, make sure any Plasma you look at is engineered to work there. If it's not, expect a loud and annoyning buzz to develop over time. Last I knew, the Gateway units had this problem.
  • Either way, the lifetime is significantly shorter than a traditional TV. Plasma TVs must be recharged as the gas is expended. Most plasma TVs list a lifetime of 20K to 30K hours, and this may be enough. Consider though, that if you left one of these on all of the time that it would die in about 3 years. Of course, few people would leave their TV on 24/7 (except businesses and such), but I wonder if the picture degrades as the plasma is used up. After a year or two, do you then need a recharge to get as good
    • Of course, few people would leave their TV on 24/7 (except businesses and such), but I wonder if the picture degrades as the plasma is used up. After a year or two, do you then need a recharge to get as good of a picture as when you bought the TV?

      We currently have about 10 Panasonic plasma displays at work. Not on 24/7, but on for a good 10 hours a day. The biggest problem: burn-in. Most of them display flash animations through Internet Explorer, and by and large they look great. However, within only
    • Plasma TVs don't need to be recharged. [avsforumfaq.com] The plasma is sealed in the unit. It is the phosphors that degrade over time, not the plasma.

  • Consider the noise (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KyleCordes ( 10679 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @06:52PM (#6759862) Homepage
    Something important to consider is the noise generated by the fan in a projector. There may be some quiet ones out there, but most projectors I encounted, regardless of DLP/LCD/etc., are too loud. (How loud is too loud? I expect a $2-5000 TV to be at least not much worse than a $200 TV...)
  • Unless it has at least 3000 lumens, you won't be able to use it in anything but a darkened room. I have wanted a true 1920x1200, 3000+ lumen projector for about 5 years now. They don't exist.

    Then again, I don't think there's a plasma monitor that even does 1600x1200 yet. Until I have HD display options, I will stick to my 12 year old 19" JVC CRT. And, whatever I buy musn't become obsolete for at LEAST another decade.
    • I've got a 1500 lumen Viewsonic that does just fine with the lights on. Granted, with the lights out, it looks *superb*, but I think it does much better than the plasma screens I've seen, especially considering the price.

      I'd suggest anyone who's looking for one to go down to CompUSA and test out a few models before deciding. Make sure to test it in a well lit area and take things like distance from the screen into account. I also think that they get dimmer with higher resolution. I use mine at 800x600,
      • I agree that 3000 lumens is not needed to get a decent picture. My InFocus X1 is (I think) 1000 lumens and it does fine in a fairly brightly-lit room on color movies. Not any worse than the TV would look in the same light anyway. Black and white movies are a different story. You have to have a mostly dark room for those to get decent contrast.

        The projector is somewhat noisy, but like the projector at the movie theater, your ears get used to the noise and tune it out. My computer which plays the DVDs i
    • Well, that explains how many grains of salt to take your opinion with. You want true HD at ludicrous brightness, and you want the progress of technology to halt until you've amortized your purchase cost. Which, most likely, shouldn't be more than that of a decent 19" monitor, right? What was that about sh!t and the cable modem again?

    • Hmm... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Friday August 22, 2003 @10:48AM (#6764906) Homepage
      Super-high-res projector capable of 3000+ lumens - $20k+ most likely.

      "OK" projector, maybe 720p-capable, 1200 lumens - $5-6k, maybe less.

      Curtains: $100 or less.

      So I can either spent $15000 overcoming lights in the room, or I can spend $100 and install some fucking curtains.

      Real tough decision there.
      • Sanyo PLV-70 (LCD based)
        2200 Lumens
        1360x768
        $4,200

        This projector kicks mucho ass. Browsing slashdot on a 105" screen is simply amazing. Beats my ED 42" panasonic plasma hands down, daylight or not.

        Useful Links:
        www.projectorcentral.com - check out the recommended pj list
        www.avsforum.com
    • 12 years? 19"?? I have a 21 inch RCA that just so happens to be 3 years older than me! (it's 24!)

  • Forget both of those (Score:4, Interesting)

    by ralphclark ( 11346 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @08:23PM (#6760621) Journal
    I have a Sony KP61PS2 - it's a 61" (yes, sixty-one inch) rear projection CRT set.It's not a HD set because there is no HD programming here in the UK, but since I mainly use it to watch DVD's anyway, that's hardly a problem. Instead it has Sony's "Digital Reality Control" (DRC) which doubles the apparent resolution (it's necessary at this size).

    The screen technology they use throws the vast majority of the light directly forward in a fairly narrow cone, concentrating it powerfully, so the brightness and contrast has to be seen to be believed. Even when viewing in daylight.

    This set absolutely rocks for viewing movies.

    Surprisingly despite its size, the set is no deeper than a conventional TV and will fit against the wall without sticking out too far. In fact it sticks out just far enough that if you are using external speakers, the front of the set will be just about flush with them. Perfect.

    As for price, this TV cost me quite a bit less than a low-end 42" plasma screen. With none of the picture quality deficiencies inherent in plasma screen displays.

    The only thing that would beat my TV is a good quality ceiling mounted CRT projector. And you know how expensive those are.

    BTW I coupled this with a JVC DVHS machine, and the picture quality of my digital off-air recordings is indistinguishable from the original, even on this monster screen. I doubt most DVR recorders are that good.

  • digital light (Score:3, Informative)

    by TheSHAD0W ( 258774 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @08:36PM (#6760743) Homepage
    I personally wouldn't buy a plasma screen; their price versus their longevity makes them a lousy investment. OLED may be better; though their longevity may be in doubt, the price will be a lot better. But if you want to make a real investment in a home theater, go with digital light.

    Digital light, in case you don't know, means a projector with an array of MEMS-controlled mirrors reflecting light at the screen. (When they talk about flipping a pixel, they really mean it!) These projectors can handle a lot more light without needing a noisy cooling fan, and should last longer than any of the current competing technologies, despite the expense of a good projector.

  • Wait a little if you can (Score:5, Insightful)

    by feyhunde ( 700477 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @08:37PM (#6760748)
    I work for a midsize company that does displays in R&D. My advice is to wait. There are huge issues with Plasma that make it a ripoff. Projectors are better, but only good for dedicated home theater. It is like this, Plasma is photo-emissive. It depletes itself constantly, but not on a linear scale. The first thousand hours are key. That means, you turn on your TV from outta the box, turn on a test screen, leave for a few hours, and the screen is damaged forever. The damage can be localized too. Watching a TV station that uses a bug will burn in the bug after a while. The full color gamat is not being used, so the depletion is not equal and the image suffers. This holds true for all emission displays. If you hook up your plasma to a computer that has a fixed image, say a start menu or a dock, or a SCO logo burning as a backround, it will burn in. It is only possible to remove by reverse driving the image, and that requires 1337ness and an understanding of colors. As for LCD projectors, they choke with the lights on. They are good for home video, and do great there, but are not normal TV's. My advice is to wait. The gen 6 LCD plants will be here soon. With them will come 42 AMLCDs that will be fast enough and bright enough for this use. They should also be much cheaper, possibly low end models for under $1500. There are a few good ones that exist now, but are more expensive due to reduced capacity. You can get a beautful 42 inch AMLCD for about $10,000 now, but that price will drop very quick very soon.
    • What on earth is wrong with a $900 DLP such as the InFocus X1 [protekdirect.com]? For most mere mortals watching DVDs at night on the weekend under controlled lighting, this is a perfectly acceptable solution. Unless of course one is a purist and considers anything but the top-of-the-line pure crap. But that often smacks more of brand-obsession than perfectionism.
      • The LCD projector is fine for that, but it is only for limited viewing. It should not be a main set, and can not be used unless in controlled settings. If you are gonna buy this and a crt HDTV, you are better off waiting.
        • > It should not be a main set, and can not be
          > used unless in controlled settings.

          I'll agree with that, but it seems that talking about HT sort of implies that. I don't usually go to the den and fire up the whole rig to watch a sitcom or the news. To me the HT is basically a twice-a-week affair for sit-down movies and popcorn, and with that kind of usage a projector is perfect and would last a long time with a 3000 hour bulb.

  • Plasmas myths and facts (Score:3, Informative)

    by macado ( 114240 ) on Thursday August 21, 2003 @11:13PM (#6761725)
    Okay i've seen a few posts commenting about Plasmas and their lifespans and I just thought i'd clarify from what I know. First of all, There is no such thing as "recharging a plasma", Once the half life of the neon or zenon gas is done, its gone. The old "plasma recharging trick" is a common misconception/myth which is sometimes used by salesmen who have little knowledge of what they are selling. Plasmas cannot be recharged, period. Most plasmas have a lifespan of about 20,000 to 30,000 hours depending on the manufacturer. Pioneer models claim 30,000 because of "deep enclosed cells" however I am not sure how true their claim is. Most companies claim an average lifespan of about 10-15 years based on average viewing habits. This is not a bad lifespan for a TV, if correct. The Gateway Plasma is a rebranded Sampo model which can be purchased as Costco or Best Buy. It has the effective resolution of 480p, which is approximately the quality of a DVD and will accept all HD signals but only scale them down (most do a decent job but still not HD). Most plasmas display 1080i natively.

    -macado
    I apologize before hand if any of this information is incorrect. Feel free to correct me.
    • Just to add a little more to my post about Plasmas, The gases used in Plasmas are actually Neon, Xenon, and Argon. Essentially a small electric charge is applied to each pixel phosphor to create your array colors. Because plasmas are lit at the pixel level, unlike LCDs and rear-projection TVs (which are back lit) Plasmas have a more uniform brightness and a much better (160 degree) viewing angle
    • I've heard 1080i isn't the best, but rather a system that can do the non-interlaced version of that. So a person should look for a system that can do 740(?) non-interlaced.
  • IAAPO (I am a Plasma Owner)

    Yeap, I'm still on the Plasma honeymoon -- going on 5 months.

    VisualApex is *THE* place to order from. Very professional, and great prices.

    I had considered the Grand Wega II, but the Plasma visual quality is simply unbelievable. Check avsforum if you really want to know how the two compare.

    Proof?

    Rich Harkness's Plasma screenshots...
    http://www.pbase.com/chunkofunk/l i nk_to_all_film_g alleries

    This thread has great tips on tweaking the Plasma.
    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show
  • I must say that what you're reading on usenet about the gateways is true. We had a couple at work for a _short_ period about 3 months ago and they were bad. Blurry, fuzzy, burned in in less than 24 hours as a monitor (even though they're sold to be used with a computer...). Generally not good. Might be ok for standard definition TV (they didn't look bad from about 4 ft+) but would definitely recommend saving your pennies for something better if you're looking for a "plasma" experience. Also hear that t
  • ...display full resolution 1920x1080i HDTV, then the only thing out there is a high-end CRT. I've looked everywhere and noone make a DLP or LCD Projector or plasma or LCD flat panel which can display full reolution HDTV (except for the apple 23"cinema display, and possibly other computer models at this size, but that's not for TV)

  • plasma vs. lcd vs. projector (Score:5, Informative)

    by rudog ( 98586 ) on Friday August 22, 2003 @04:32AM (#6763074) Homepage
    Throwing specs around is great but really won't answer your question; as opposed to user-experience, which I can offer.

    Where I work I use NEC 42" plasma screens daily, I have 2 friends with 50" pioneers plasma screens and have worked with sony plasma's previously. I have several 17-18-19" LCD's for work and 1 friend with a Panasonic LCD TV ( I believe it is 36" diag). We also use several runco hd-dlp front-projector/wall-screen set-ups and 1 samsung rear-projector dlp-tv.

    In all cases if you sit closer than 6-8 feet to the plasmas' then any you will constantly notice jaggies during normal tv viewing and several types of ghosting/artifacts during any high speed action sequences. The NEC's cost us about US $9k /each.

    The problem is that you buy a big screen for just that reason - real estate - and if you have to sit 10 feet away then it defeats the purpose because then your new 61" whizbang looks the size of your 27" whatzit you started out with.

    Enter the LCD, They have better control over jaggies but then you are very constrained when it comes to viewing locations - you basically need to be directly in front and within about 8 feet in a well lit room in order to view it comfortably.The pc screens all run about US $1k, but the tv ran my friend US $5k.

    Projectors are all about tweaking, on 2 of our runco sets we have rooms with one wall entirely of glass i.e. tons of sunlight, and the projectors are set to throw a 72" screen from 8 feet away (they are ceiling mount) and they are beautiful to see in action - no jaggies or artifacts and colors are spot-on. But it did take about 3 days of tweaking to get that with all video sources.And they cost about US $7k per set-up.

    Our primary Runco set-up is a 14footx8foot screen with the projector set 20feet back. This was because even after going through all the specs before hand, the darn thing wouldn't give us the full image from the 16foot distance reccomended by the factory install team.

    And after 2 weeks of tweaking the image is barely viewable with all lights off, the images ae fuzzy and color alignment is all wrong; we have to replace the bulb about every 3 and a half weeks @ US $600/bulb; and this was their top of the line dlp from 2 years ago -almost US $20k.

    The samsung rp-dlp is beautiful in action and doesn't have any issue with ambient light in the room, however it did run about US $5k.

    For a home setup, I have a great 36" toshiba digital tv. Complete with component connections and a sony HDTV tuner + PS2 + gamecube.

    This gives the best cost/performance ratio as it cost only US $1200 plus another US $1200 for the tuner, which isn't included with any of the other set-ups.

    Bottom Line: Get out to all of the showrooms you can and actually look at these things in person, You will be surprised at how good your current set-up actually compares to what is available out there.
  • We're working on making the presence of a TV set in our living room as unobtrusive as possible.
    Don't you think that this [bestscientificweb.com] would be far less obtrusive than a plasma screen or projector?
  • I used to want a plasma because the pictures was incredible...however Motorola is talking about a new carbon nanotube screen that will be cheaper than a plasma screen. Press release here [motorola.com]. Maybe we'll have really nice tv's we can hang on the wall for a lot better price soon.

  • Neither Plasma Nor LCD (Score:3, Informative)

    by VernonNemitz ( 581327 ) on Friday August 22, 2003 @09:38AM (#6764262) Journal
    2048x1152 DLP [hometheateradvice.com] (front projection)
    1280x720 DLP [samsung.com] (rear projection)
    Flat CRT [candescent.com] (still under development)
    Inorganic Electroluminescent [ifire.com] (still under development)
    Electrostatics & Suspension [eink.com] (ambient light, still working on color)
    Electrostatics & Revolution [gyriconmedia.com] (ambient light, still working on color)
    Electrostatics & Interference [iridigm.com] (ambient light, no plans for larger modules!?!?)
  • I'll try to be brief... OK. Gateways used to be re-branded Sampos, which in turn were rebranded Fujitsus and Samsungs. Not sure what they're doing now, except that they're still rebranding. Plasma is a good choice for home theater, as are projectors. Lamp life on an average projector is 2000-3000 hours (check out http://www.projectorcentral.com/ for detailed per unit breakdown) Projectors are good because they can be used anywhere; a rooftop, a cold beer, and a HD picture 12 feet across is a nice combina
  • "We're working on making the presence of a TV set in our living room as unobtrusive as possible." sez Keith

    Suggestion
    1)No TV, this is my preference but compromise is the key to a long marraige so...
    2)13" all in one CRT type with tape and DVD for $149. It fits nicely on the oven when not in use.
    3)Buy my 1000 surplus 10.2" 640x480 dual scan, 7mm thick LCD panels for $10k and make your wall into a TV (black and white though :-)
    • I must confess I'm intrigued by Option Three, whether or not you actually do own those LCD panels. How close together could you put them? Would I be looking at your wallscreen-thingie through a grid of fat black frame-lines, or would it be less noticeable than that? Monochrome would be okay with me, if it was uber-high-resolution.

  • Sony XBR Grand WEGA [sonystyle.com].

    'nuff sed.

  • LCD projectors are bad, very. While LCD works lovely with wristwatches and cellular phones, it is bad for displaying big stuff - either on the screen or on the wall.
    I've played with several LCD projectors - the kind used for presentations, and they were always bad. They always had poor contrast.
    About plasma I don't know much, but it's still worse than normal CRT technologies. So the answer is, either use a digital projector or just wait for the LED (or organic led) world.
  • Most of the highly rated posts I've seen here so far are based on old prices and equipment and give wrong impressions of what you can buy today.

    I recently purchased both the 42" Panasonic Plasma EDTV for $3800 and the Sanyo PLV-70 LCD PJ + 105"Diag Dalite HiPower tripod screen which you can get for $4,500.

    The Panasonic is regarded the best Plasma in this price range period. However, the Sanyo kicks so much serious ass, I never would have bought a plasma.

    Think 105" screen Plasma!!! I'm dead serious.

    Pan

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