Should Software Engineers Seek CCNA's? 40
kernel2 asks: "I'm in the software engineering profession and some of my friends are about to enroll on a CCNA (Cisco Certified Network Administrator) course and are egging me on to join as well. I'm trying to decide whether I should do the course or not. On the one hand it might help me understand networking (especially in bigger corps) better and that is something I love (networking). It might also help me diversify and improve my chances of landing a job in these strained and difficult times (and that's primarily why my friends are doing it). But wouldn't it look odd on my CV? I mean why would someone highly interested in software (with a Software Engineering degree) do CCNA?"
Good idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Good idea (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Good idea (Score:3, Insightful)
The CCNA
Diversification is a Good Thing (tm) (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Diversification is a Good Thing (tm) (Score:2, Interesting)
Yeah, a mish-mash of syntax like that in Perl. *bleh!*
Don't Mention It (Score:2)
If you think you'll learn interesting things, and you have the time and money, take the class.
Money is the answer (Score:3, Informative)
Cisco Certified people, assuming you're through with the certification and actually get it (dropout rate is quite high, lots of hard-working hours must be invested), you're sitting on the money bag.
For example, in Ukraine a Cisco certified expert gets a paycheck of $25K yearly. That's Ukraine, where the average salary is $200 and anyone in software development is expected to make $500-700 max. The catch? Only 13 Cisco-certified experts (their top certificate) for entire freaking country of 50 mil. people.
If you have a chance to get free education, go for it.
Re:Money is the answer (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Money is the answer (Score:3, Informative)
the CCIE is cool because, 1. you are in a very elite group of 'networking gods', passing that thing is HARD. 20% pass their first time(80% fail!).
2. When you take the test, Cisco flies you out to their HQ, give you a room with some networking equipment, and setup a situation where something (or things) are broken. you have an hour to fix them. You are judged by a panel of CCIEs, and if they say you pass, you pass, it isn't getting a certain score on a multi-choice test.
btw: CCN
Re:Money is the answer (Score:1)
The fact of the matter is that if you are actually using your CCN(A|P) knowledge as it was intended, you probably won't be going anywhere near computers (or users, for the matter) as far as fixing them is concerned. I don't, and I'm quite happy with my job because of it.
Re:Money is the answer (Score:2)
you are right, my post made it sound more of a sysadmin certification, which it isn't. the CCNA(as i am sure you know) is all networking, with a brief touch on computer internals(general knowledge stuff). so ya, i will be playing with the fance switches and routers, rather than un-virusing some users poor windows box
Re:Money is the answer (Score:3, Informative)
Recently I heard from a recruiter who was looking for a CCIE candidate in the UK. After putting the very narrowly defined job spec up on a couple of job boards (I saw it on jobserve), he received over 50 qualified CVs within an hour. After 1 whole day, he had over 100 CCIE's contact him looking for a job. He also got about 500 Cisco Certified but not quite CCIE level responses, deleted instantly.
The market for Cisco
Laugh if you must... (Score:2)
And well, if your program eats cpu like candy, why not make it 'clusterable' once you learn the network semantics of it? That's what the makers of Cinelerra did.
Go for it! (Score:1)
go for it (Score:1)
Do it! (Score:2)
The only way that having a CCNA could HURT you, is if you're applying for some crack elite software team or something, where distractions would be frowned upon.
But in the rest of the world, I would bet money that a small business would LOVE it if they hired a new software guy onto their small team, who could help out with networking. The larger the employer, the more specialized jobs will become. This wi
Why Not? (Score:2)
So my question is, Why Not?
Think it looks funny on your CV? Don't List it
It's a chance to learn something that you are interested in, and get a pretty piece of paper to show for it. Might even keep you out of the unemployment office one day. I, for one, have never suffered in my career from knowing too much! (maybe from too little, at times
Given money not a problem, I (also a software person) would
Probably a good idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I think you should go ahead and take the course. Let me give you a couple reasons why.
1. If you're not knowledgable about networking, you should be. Networking and the Internet in general, as we all now, are increasingly critical technologies for software engineers in almost all businesses. You should have at least a high-level understanding about how and why they work; the more you know, the better you will be.
2. At Cisco, CCNA's weren't really considered very useful... you were expected to know or learn whetever you needed to know for your job, certification or not. However, many companies encourage or require that their network administrators and other IT folks get CCNA's, which indicates to me that they place some value in the skill-set implied by having such a certification. Personally, if I'm the hiring manager and I care about your networking knowledge, I'm going to quiz you on networking anyway, and not trust that the CCNA means anything in particular.
Having a CCNA can't possibly hurt you. Even if your work isn't related to networking, it shows that you have a diversity of skills and interests, and that you have sensitivity to issues outside of your core skill set. It also means that I might be able to use you on networking-related projects, which increases your value to me as an employee.
3. Hell, you may find, as I did, that networking is really fun stuff and that you'd like to persue it further. No loss there either!
Let me close by saying that passing the CCNA test only means that you knew a certain set of material on a particular day. It doesn't make you a networking expert. If you don't use those skills, you'll lose them, just like anything else. Keep reading about new technologies, and, if you can, fiddle with networks from time to time. Keep up your intuition and troubleshooting skills. Knowing how to debug network problems comes in handy at the strangest times
Re:Probably a good idea (Score:1)
probably meant "grok" - but doesn't grok the meaning
Re:Probably a good idea (Score:2, Interesting)
If you want the additional acronym on your resume, it is a good course to take. But if your looking for generic networking/protocol knowledge, you would be better off taking a course like Mastering TCP/IP [globalknowledge.com] or Understanding Networking Fundamentals. [globalknowledge.com] Those courses will focus more on the protocols and functions of various types of network equi
Re:Probably a good idea (Score:2, Informative)
Sure the CCNA course has lots of cisco specific syntax - but you can't know the syntax without learning the theory - which by the very nature of TCP/IP must be universal. VLSM and subnet masking is the same in Cisco land, *nix or M$.
Same goes with RIP & OSPF - true tho - there is a bit of cisco proprietry routing such as IGRP
Give it a try (Score:3, Informative)
It never showed up on my resume, and very few people know about it.
However, I passed up on some $20k/year salary increases by *not* listing it on my resume during the late 1990s. It was a conscious choice - and one that I was glad to be able to make.
By adding networking to your skill set, you could become the IT person at a small company. Imagine being the fifteenth guy to work for Microsoft, for example. Big bucks.
More opportunities (if you like doing that work still, once the class is over), or knowledge that you want to avoid the field like it was the plague. Hmmm. . .
Good Luck (Score:3, Funny)
Yeaaah.
I have until early-to-mid December to pass the test before it changes for the new curriculum, but I am afraid to take it again because I might get the same score
That's my story -- has anybody else had any similar experiences?
Re:Good Luck (Score:1)
I find the CCNA certification test itself really to be kind of annoying. The way to get certified really is to have good intuitive ability on the routers (mainly for the router sims on the exam) and to memorize lots and lots of material.
The cisco course itself, however was greatly
Re:Good Luck (Score:1)
It seems like a very eerie coincidence.
Re:Good Luck (Score:1)
Re:Good Luck (Score:1)
maybe...but you better register before september 30th...see this [cisco.com]
You only have ONE resume ? (Score:2)
Keep a generic resume around for each kind of job you are trying to seek, then modify it slightly based on the job description - highlighting the areas that are important, removing sk
Do it because you want to. (Score:2)
I've been doing RF hardware design for 7 years. I recently got my Continuing Education certification in Unix C/C++ programming from WPI. I didn't do the CE program because I thought it would be nice to have on my resume. I did it because I really wanted to learn it.
Having said that, it has helped my resume stand out. Although programming and RF are at opposite ends of the spectrum, employers like the fact that I can help bridge the gap between analog engineers and software engineers. They're not
Associate - Not Administrator (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Associate - Not Administrator (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Can't hurt. Go get it. (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you have any idea how many programmers don't know jack about the network that they program on? It's absurd really -- but they can STIll do a good job! I have seen damn good rock solid programmers (well -- good enough for the job at hand) that didn't know you could open an FTP client to an address that started with "www.".
Some don't know that latency is a problem when doing network programming. The idea of removing client/server communication chatter is just plain odd to them. It doesn't cost CPU, in fact it's sometimes faster, so why would you NOT want to chatter back and forth?
And these people can be darned good programmers in corporate environments. They sometimes need guidance though.
Get the CCNA, it shows that you kinda like networking. If you're going for a software engineering job lay it on there down at the bottom of your pile of other tech skills. If it comes up just play it off at interview time, "Yep.. I got that. I've fiddled with networks so much in the past that I figured I should just get it. It was a breeze and I already knew it anyway. It's not my primary focus, but I realized long ago it's something I should have knowledge of so I got the certification for the heck of it."
If they want to you to take up a networking job that you don't want you can play that off too. "Yeah, I have a CCNA and I dig networking and such, but I consider myself more valuable as a programmer. It's my main discpline and I work far harder on that than I do networking." Well, shit, if you got a CCNA on a whim you must be a good programmer!
Walking in there with a resume that will "rock their knob" in every discipline can't hurt. Toss shit in that doesn't apply but make sure it's not considered your main discipline, unless you want them to. "Yeah, I've worked on projects that emphasised parallel processing batch systems to get the most out of our hardware but what I really dig is high-repsonse clustered environments that scale up horizontally. They're much more fun for me and I feel far more comfrotable working with them." Shit like that -- but it has to be true. Flip it around the other way if you have to take a 2nd interview.
Every interview I walked into wanting that job I got. I've had some where I was less enthusiatic about the position that I didn't get and I walked away knowing I didn't want the job. If I wanted it, I got it. Know your shit, be honest, and don't be afraid to talk down some of your skills that aren't important to the job. If they think it's impressive that you have X cert when the job really requires cert Y just talk down cert X. It's a toy thing to you. What you really dig is discipline Y.... and that's where you rock.
If they have "router monkeys" at the place without at a CCNA and you play that down because you're a far better programmer than a network guy you just plain look better. You don't have to be king shit at everything, but if you have enough in your bag to impress them in one area you give yourself the power to talk yourself up in another area while maintaining that "I'm a better coder than networking guy" air.
Can it hurt? (Score:2)
Is it worth having on a resume? Not really.
If you know very little about networking, the CCNA course will be helpful in that respect (but 100% of which can be learned in a book or two, which is much cheaper than taking a course & tests). I myself took the ICRC course and worked in networking for 4 years (I was a WAN administrator for a national backbone). I never bothered getting my CCNA however.
Sadly, CCNAs are a dime a dozen now. Like MSCE,
Re:Can it hurt? (Score:1)
It's a trap.. (Score:1)
Hi, I'm a software guy (just like most readers here) and was wondering if I should get certified (all the replies say, yes, of course, CCNA look so good on CV - like butter on fish).. I am also curious if this had made you consider *your* resume'.. OH, and here's a convenient link to a Cisco enrollment form (here)