Have You Personally Used an Honest Head Hunter? 478
Haacked asks: "As a software manager, I've tried using recruiters and head hunters to find qualified employees. My experience is that used car salesman feel like paragons of integrity, in comparison. It seems their interests never lie with the job applicant, nor the company. However, I once read that some recruiters do act with integrity and actually care about the people they are trying to place. The book suggested finding a head hunter who is interested in a long term relationship with you (not for the commitment-phobic) and will serve more as a career counselor, attempting to find a position that meets your goals. Seems to me that establishing a long-term relationship with fewer as opposed to screwing people over in volume would make good business sense to garner repeat business. Have any of you ever worked with any firms you felt represented your interests well?"
Yes. (Score:5, Funny)
Have You Personally Used an Honest Head Hunter?"
Yes, a fellow named Jeffrey Dahmer. Nice guy, if a bit strange. I'd ask him what he did with the rest of the bodies but he always just gave me a sly grin.
I wonder what ever happened to him..
I'm a car salesman ... (Score:2)
(no, I'm not)
Re:Yes. (Score:2)
Internal (Score:2)
I have.... (Score:5, Funny)
Wait, maybe that was abused...
My choice (Score:5, Informative)
Re:My choice (Score:2)
Be aware that he will make you go through a rigorous process to document your wants, needs, and goals before he will work with you; he values the relationships he has with his client firms *and* his recruits. So be prepared to work if you call him. Don't waste his time. But if you're honestly looking for a great recruiter who will work hard to put you in the right pla
Payment plan problems (Score:3, Insightful)
Ideally, long term employee satisfaction & retention should factor into the payroll equation.
Re:Payment plan problems (Score:3, Insightful)
There needs to be some sort of feedback loop to make the system work better. Most systems work better with checks and balances. Most of the money up front, but some of it later (6 months?) after the employee has been there a while. Maybe give the headhunter bonuses based off of the employee's performance. The headhunter would want more money because of the higher risk, and longer period until payment is complete.
- doug
PS: I've never seen this in action, s
Experiances (Score:2)
I have spoken to one or two who presented themselves as one shot deals. Id rather use a temp agency then associate with someone with so little confidence in themselves, or me.
Re:Longer-term relationships (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would an agency be so thoughtless when there are obviously so many qualified people looking for tech work you may ask? Because they know the government HAS to
Networking the other kind... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Networking the other kind... (Score:5, Funny)
Retainer vs. commission-based headhunters (Score:5, Informative)
When you speak with a headhunter trying to fill a position, just ask, "Are you on commission for this, or is it a retainer job?" You can learn a lot from that.
Re:Retainer vs. commission-based headhunters (Score:5, Interesting)
When I was looking for work a few years ago, I was told about a job by a headhunting group. They told me the company that was hiring generally gave $6k for relocation, which seemed pretty high to me, but I said that sounded great and let's move on. Well, lo and behold, I was offered the job, but there was no talk of relocation benefits in the offer letter.
So I ask the company, and I mention the 6k and they say they only offer that kind of money to upper management types. So, I call back the headhunters and relay the information. Without even blinking, the recruiter says "Oh, well then since we already mentioned it we'll just pay you the $6k". Keep in mind that there was no contract or anything in writing stating I would receive $6k for relocation expenses. As soon as I moved to the new location, I put my stuff in storage and got a hotel room and called the recruiters and told them I had arrived to take the position. The very next day a check arrived at my hotel room from the recruiting agency made out to me for $6,000.
The moral is, these guys make boatloads of money on each new hire, which is why they were not particularly bothered by giving me that money.
Re:Retainer vs. commission-based headhunters (Score:3, Informative)
But yeah, headhunters make huge commissions. Law of supply and demand. I once worked for a company that built a new building, moved i
Nope... (Score:5, Funny)
Me: "I'm still pretty happy in my current job"
Him: "Well, we're looking for C# developers, but we'll interview people with java talent to fill those roles."
Me: "We're looking for Java talent as well, so if I knew good people, I think we'd take them."
Him: "Really?!? What's the hiring manager's name?"
Me: "I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want that information given out."
Him: "Fine... **click**"
I don't expect to hear from him in 3-4 months.
Re:Nope... (Score:2)
Him: How much experience have you had with -----.
Me: Three years.
Him: Six years experience with -----. How many people do you supervise?
Me: Two.
Him: Four reports
And so forth. Yeah, that's someone I'd trust.
In general they're harmless and can help you get a foot in the door instead of going through HR when you have no connections. The one rule: DO NOT LET THEM SEND OUT A RESUME WITHOUT CHECKING WITH YOU!!
So far, I've met two who seemed vaguely trustwort
Out there, but rare... (Score:5, Interesting)
Shortly after introducing himself, asked me to sign a pledge declaring that I would not, under any circumstances, accept a counteroffer from my current employer.
One recruiter, who I had never met or spoken to, submitted my resume to the company I had just left two months previously! Not only that, but he grossly exaggerated my experience and qualifications.
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:2, Informative)
On the employee side, watch out for the scam where they try to get you in at a lower salary than the company is willing to pay in order to get a cut of the savings from the company in addition to the regular commision.
On the employer side, watch out for the recruiters that taylor their candidates to exactly the qualifications you asked for. Had a few cases where the person being interviewed remarked - "What? Where did you get the ide
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:2, Informative)
Within two weeks of calling him, I had been on at least half a dozen interviews and ha
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:3, Interesting)
I have seriously considered adding a copyright notice to the copy of my resume that I have posted on my website in order to prevent crap like this. Not only have recruiters submitted my resume without my permission, but a lot of them will modify the resume first to strip out my contact info (so that their client can't contact me directly) and add their company logo. With a copyright notice on there, I figure I could sue their ass.
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:4, Informative)
You remember wrong on details, although you're right on the relevant principle. The "Berne" changes were generally more minor technical issues...
In 1976, effective Jan. 1, 1978, U.S. copyright law was substantially overhauled. Some of the major changes were to coordinate with international treaty, which required that you couldn't lose copyright over technicalities (e.g. failure to register).
Under current U.S. law:
Re:Out there, but rare... (Score:2)
Huh? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Huh? (Score:5, Funny)
Well, I certainly declared it as income on my income tax forms, and certainly didn't spend a cent of it on illegal intoxicants (or even legal intoxicants) or women of negligable or negotiable virtue, that's for sure!
Pay One (Score:4, Interesting)
As for recruiters who try to help you out for free, don't forget, you get what you pay for.
Re:Pay One (Score:4, Interesting)
If he's being paid for doing anything other than placing you successfully (or placing people with you successfully - it's not clear from context what role you're in), what's his incentive not to string you along with "services" and "contacts" and "etc." you're paying for, but that never pan out?
I favor an outcome-oriented approach, personally.
-Isaac
Re:Pay One (Score:5, Informative)
I'm a professional consultant, so I pay for services to help find me work. (actually, this is a bit past-tense now, as I have work, but I would pay in the future).
I favor an outcome-oriented approach, personally.
I understand your position. However, I am comfortable with paying for time. My current clients pays for my time, not my results. Now, if I don't produce results for the time they've paid me for, they stop paying. Nothing stops me, I guess, from failure to complete assignments in attempt to get my contract extended, but that is not a long-term successful approach.
You should definatly check the agent's referenes before paying them anything. You are basically hiring them as your part-time contracted employee, so do the same things as you would if you were hiring any other employee.
Yes, I am taking some risk in paying for time without guaranteed results. However, I am asking him to find a client to take a risk in paying for my time, without guaranteeing results.
This is a pretty standard model in the consulting/contracting industry. You are asking for more of a "fixed-price" system, or pay for results. I am sure that exists, and maybe it works. I personally have no experience with that model, so maybe someone who does could comment?
head hunters are after placement $$$, nothing else (Score:2, Interesting)
They don't care about the employee or the employer.
Even though I was desperate for employment, I decided they weren't worth the trouble.
Not to mention all the OHHHH, that position was just filled after making an inqury about a posting on monster.com (or the like).
I guess I got lucky, the company I'm working fo
Re:head hunters are after placement $$$, nothing e (Score:4, Interesting)
In most cases I've seen, the headhunters are conerned for themselves first, the company second (after all, the company is paying them), and the candidates last.
Generally, I've tried avoiding recruiters from agencies. At my previous job, I was hired by a recruiter who was on retainer from the company, and I worked with a recruiter while there when we were hiring more people. They seemed to actually care about the company. They also seemed to care a bit about the candidates, since most of them realized that lying to someone just to get them through the door would result in an unhappy employee who was likely to jump ship, which would make them look bad in the eyes of management.
Personally, if I were at a company and needed to hire, I'd just hire a recruiter, and put them on a bonus schedule... if the employee remains for 6 months, they get a bonus... if the employee is still there after a year, another bonus. That would make the recruiter care about the whole equation, since it is in his/her best interest.
Oh, and the only time i can actually verify that I was flat-out lied to in order to get me through the door? No recruiter was involved... it was the doing of a VP and my manager.
Yes, but don't count on it. Network (Score:2, Informative)
Network with others to find these good recruiters, and, more importantly, find good candidates. Use your people's contacts/friends to find the candidates based on people that they've
I have (Score:2)
However, I did like the Pencom [pencom.com] guys back in the day, and an ex-pencom guy did find me my current job. Course, I was also a CT person [colltech.com] but not anymore. I can say that a guy nicknamed Chilly was a good recruiter, but he's no longer one anymore.
However, I can't say anything about the companies now, but I'm sure others can. I do get a lot of recruiter emai
You don't want to use one, even if they're honest (Score:4, Interesting)
Every single job I've ever had was the result of me knowing somebody who either worked for the company, or was a friend of someone in management. Any time I've ever gone on an interview that a headhunter found me, it was a complete fiasco. I'm a java programmer, and most of the time they sent me to companies looking for a javascript guy.
They also simply tended to be crappy jobs, which is why they had to pay a headhunter to find them employees. An appealing job will attract an employee with little effort. A good employee who's been in the business for a while and knows some people will usually be able to find their way to it.
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:2)
Some places require you to go through an 'approved' vender though. Then you have to find a company that will be willing to only take a small cut if you bring them both the job and the candidate. Here we have a company that does that for a $3/hr cut.
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:5, Interesting)
Certainly not my experience. I've had 2 very good experiences with headhunters, and 2 mediocre ones. It is certainly not true that "if they knew what they were talking about, they'd have a real job." I've had managers that couldn't code, and certainly the headhunters couldn't, but they DID know how to communicate. That's what they're there for, and if they know how to do that you're in good hands.
I can tell good UI from bad, but I have a real hard time coming up with good UI on my own. There are plenty of art critics who can't paint. Hell, everyone knows good music when they hear it, but relatively few can play.
For that matter, there are plenty who can play music but not compose - and vice versa...
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:3, Interesting)
My current job was acquired through a head-hunter (a good one) and I wouldn't have gotten it any other way. The employer had an exclusive agreement to bring on a certain number of people and they all had to go through this head-hunter. A sort of package deal.
As it turns out, the costs for a head-hunter can be equivalent to what one might pay an HR department to do similar work... and when you have a small or non-existant HR department, a reputable head-hunter can be a great asset
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:2)
Agreed. That's why I always cut my own hair too. Why would I pay someone to do something I can do with just a pair of scissors?
Every single job I've ever had was the result of me knowing somebody who either worked for the company, or was a friend
Being a bit more serious, the situation you describe is fine for low level
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:3, Insightful)
And you really think you'd have better results hiring a CFO or Director of R&D from a headhunter? Surely, you've worked with some competent people in the past that are looking for an opportunity.
Friends aren't just people you hang out with at bars. I know plenty of old clients and cowerkers to fill some pret
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:4, Insightful)
For that, they don't mind paying a fee. It does save time and money for the company. Unfortunately, they can get screwed on that deal by a flesh-pimp-headhunter. That will only happen once, though, and most companies (at least this one) won't deal with that agency again.
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:2)
I can understand that need, but I personally think there are better ways to satisfy it. You don't have to plaster the newspapers or job sites whenever you have an opening. It might take a lot longer to fill the position if you don't but you can always hire a contractor or temp until you find one. For any position that you wouldn't want a contractor filling, you probably wouldn't want someone coming from a headhunter,
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:2)
Luckily, the headhunters smelled the carcass of the dying company I was working for, and like vultures, started calling. I actually found a good one and got a better job WITH a 50% raise. Would not have happened without a headhunter.
Re:You don't want to use one, even if they're hone (Score:3, Insightful)
So everybody who knows anything about development does development? Good thing we never need to hire tech writers, managers... No wait, we do need th
Good headhunters... (Score:2, Funny)
Not really (Score:2, Interesting)
I have worked with a number of headhunters, and I've had very unpleasant results across the board.
It's something of a vicious cycle in that hiring managers tend to hedge their bets by bringing in multiple headhunters, making it less profitable for the headhunters to do high-quality work for any giving manager. It just doesn't make economic sense for them to really screen candidates and find the perfect fit since neither the candidate nor the hiring manager is locked in.
At one point I tried using a headh
duh (Score:2)
Question of intent (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, they exist (Score:3, Insightful)
well.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Most seem to be flesh pimps... put a warm body in a seat... as long as they get their check. That can not only ruin their reputation with companies out there, but can ruin a developer's career and self esteem.
I have to wonder, in retrospect, if part of the problem was me though. I now know exactly how to talk with head hunters, and think I am pretty good at getting a feel for what they're actually about. I have no problem telling them when they're wrong, and when I think they're trying to pimp me out.
I have a good working relationship with two head hunters now, and they know my skillset very well. I haven't had a problem with the flesh pimps (other than the usual cold calls) in some time.
I did, once, have one ask me how long it would take for me to learn a particular language that wasn't on my resume. I asked him how long it would take him to learn Portugese. He got the message.
Re:well.... (Score:2)
If you ever get a call from a recruiter with Beatek (also BTek), just hang up. You'll thank yourself later, even if you're flipping burgers.
Re:well.... (Score:2)
Re:well.... (Score:2)
Re:well.... (Score:2)
Oh, you poor thing! Did the mean man try to make you learn Java? shhhhhhhhh, it's OK, the mean man won't hurt you anymore. shhhhhhhh..........
Re:well.... (Score:3, Interesting)
If I'm going to sell myself, or allow a headhunter to sell me, as a programmer in a particular lang
Trusted head-hunters? (Score:5, Informative)
1.) Works with you to establish your hourly rate, and the hourly rate he'll bill you at. (Doesn't hide rates.)
2.) No IP agreements.
3.) Reasonable non-competes
4.) How well they treat H1-B people. Do they threaten to deport them if they leave the company?
5.) Have you seen them lie? Do research with other people in the company. Ask pointed questions and see if employee answers match head-hunter answers.
6.) Attitude towards overtime.
7.) No patronizing attitude
8.) Open with what is going on with office politics
9.) Shows you the contract between head-hunter and company you'll go to.
10.) Asks where you want to go with your career
Bottom line, you've got to do your research. Google for people that have worked at the same company and ask them questions.
Re:Trusted head-hunters? (Score:2)
It's all in the incentives (Score:2)
Common practice (Score:2, Interesting)
There are different animals in play... (Score:2, Insightful)
honest headhunter (Score:2)
They are out there... (Score:4, Insightful)
What's more, he didn't hold a grudge. Six months ago when I was looking for a change of scenary, I applied for a job online. It turned out Vince was the headhunter, now working for a different company himself. He not only remembered me by name, but recommended me highly to the client (which turned out to be the same company he works for), and I ended up getting the job.
A month ago, a friend of mine was looking to get out of a sinking ship himself. I gave him Vince's number, and in three weeks Vince not only found him a job, but found him something that fit him well. In this economy? I was floored.
So yes, they are out there. You just have to look around a little.
Re:They are out there... (Score:3, Funny)
Never had any success on the other end (Score:2)
I'd really try to prequalify them to see if they've gotten any better. It was a couple of years ago last try, but I've spoken with 2-3 of them.
Mixed experience (Score:3, Insightful)
Some warning signs of a bad one:
1) The headhunter says things like "This is the best developer I have ever talked to." or "You'll want to hire this guy immediately" or "I have ten people perfect for the job you're offering"
2) The resumes that the headhunter gives you are fully of typos and gramatical errors. Not only doesn't the applicant care enough to fill it out, but the headhunter didn't care enough to review it.
3) Headhunter says "Even though he doesn't have the experience you said you wanted, I know you'll love him".
Good signs when talking to a headhunter.
1) FIXED RATES!!!! Most headhunters get a percentage of the salary of the person coming in. There incentive is to get you to hire the most expensive guy, whether he is qualified or not. Fixed rate headhunters just want to keep you happy so that you come back.
2) They do full pre-screening interviews with technical questions before forwarding any resumes.
3) When you reject a candidate, they try to find out why so that they don't make the same mistake twice.
Overall, I think that the right headhunter can be a great help with recruiting, but always understand that there interest is in placing candidates with you and not necessarily that the candidate fits.
There are indeed good ones. (Score:2)
We had an hour-long chat about my past and experiences, and just shooting the breeze on a number of fairly interresting subjects (he had a technical rather than HR background, so he could hold a conversation.)
The result? He turned me away from the job I applied for "You're going to hate it there", dived in his file drawer and pulled out something entirely unrelated telling me that this was the job for me.
Got an
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
Dunno if they qualify as a headhunter... (Score:2)
... but Teksystems has treated me very well in the past.
Lately, though, they seem to be slipping... getting more like their slimy competitors. I hope it ain't so, 'coz they treated me VERY well when I worked for them a few years ago.
Why use a head hunter? (Score:2)
Re:Why use a head hunter? (Score:2)
blue collar) will put an ad in the paper or on their website.
All the IT Companies I know of use recruitment agencies. The only one I know of that didn't,
had its OWN recruitment agency; that placed people at other IT companies.
Newspaper ads are generally placed by recruitment companies, not the direct employer.
Head Hunter's Over Sell (Score:5, Funny)
MOD PARENT UP! (Score:2)
ROFL!!
Neve. (Score:2)
Have any of you ever worked with any firms you felt represented your interests well?
Never.
In every experience I've had where I was sent as an applicant to a company via a recruiter, the recruiter had always doctored up my resume, and tried to push me into being dishonest about my experiences (such as making a little bit of experience with something sound more like a lot of experience with something).
I've also noticed (being on the interviewing side) that most recruiters don't know squat about tech s
There are a FEW good ones... (Score:2)
I have met a select few who do go the extra mile. I remember one way back in 1989 who actually sat down with me and we talked for good while about what I wanted. She actually got me an interview with my dream company at the time (Pixar) but when that fell through, she got me other interviews and finally landed me at another p
Well, I've almost done it. (Score:2)
At least I've talked with a few who acted and talked as if they were honest. Unfortunately, it didn't turn out to be true. ; )
steve
A few exist (Score:3, Interesting)
When I was first out of college, I used a headhunter to find my first programming job in Chicago. I can't remember his name or the company, but he was somewhere downtown on Wacker street I think. It took several months to find a job that I was a good fit for, especially since I didn't have a CS degree. He sent me on one or two interviews that weren't really good fits for me and was kind of amazed when I turned a company down because they were "too corporate." But he got the message, and a bit later he found me weveral interviews at once and I ended up with three offers to choose from.
Out here in Silicon Valley I know one good recruiter who used to work for one of my former employers on a contract basis. She found good people for us to interview, which is exactly what she was supposed to do. She also gave me some advice when I was job hunting again a few months ago. The recruiters who work for my current employer seemed good too. In both of these cases they definitely represented the employer, not the potential employees.
On the other hand I've run across some bad ones. Before I found the good one in Chicago, I encountered some agencies that were more like meat markets than technical recruiters. At one of them I showed up for an initial interview and they were also interviewing hairdressers. From the employer side, I've also encountered quite a few recruiters who will give managers lots and lots of resumes for unqualified people, without making any effort to filter them at all. ("Does the word Java appear anywhere on this resume? No? Then why did you send it to me for a Java programming job?")
Summary: There are some excellent recruiters out there, but they're hard to find. Once you find a good one, stick with them.
My experience (Score:3, Funny)
He was a moron. Idiot. Slacker.
I don't understand why he was even in the tech field in the first place. Sure, he knew how to install software, but I had to show how to browse a Windows network! He was the equivalent of an end user! Ack! He had very little knowledge, couldn't improvise, and only showed up half the time.
When we interviewed (and hired) somebody else for the position he wanted to fill, he was disappointed. Wanting to somewhat save his damaged pride, I said, "Yeah, the person we hired for the job had a Master's Degree."
To which he replied, "If I had a Master's Degree I'd just go in and ask to buy the school."
As if they roll up a million dollar bill with your Master's. As if one could simply buy a public school.
It was the stupidest thing I had ever heard, but I only said, "Yeah, the tech sector is kinda tight right now."
Found one good one in the SF area (Score:4, Informative)
I certainly have favorites, but use protection! (Score:5, Insightful)
But I'm not sure it matters... you can pretty much get headhunters to do what you want by following a few simple rules:
First, remain independant -- don't agree to use only one Headhunter and, in fact, make it clear that whoever you use has no right to submit you for a job without your permission. You can maintain control this way, which leads us to:
Second, take what you want, leave the rest alone -- make it clear what you're looking for in a job and don't accept anything else (up to the point you can afford it). Headhunters make money by getting you to agree to work, so they'd rather be a bit annoyed with you and spend twice as long finding you a job than losing you as a client completely. As long as a headhunter is willing to call you up, you have the possibility that they'll be the one to find your perfect job, so you don't want to alienate anyone, but that's tough to do since they're on commission (all the ones I've seen).
Thirdly, demand open contracts -- this is the only one that's not completely trivial to negotiate. Many headhunting companies have policies that they will tell you the percentage off the top that they're skimming. Rates vary, of course -- I've seen 10% and 50%... still, if the money's right this may not be important to you. Most companies will agree to tell you, and in some cases, you can get a better deal going with someone's competitor. Lots of the jobs on web search engines are the same job posted through various employment agencies, so you may be able to get more money for the same job from someone else. Having this rate disclosure helps prevent that, and it also gives you a bit of a bargaining chip if you turn out to be really good in the position.
Just using those three rules, I think you can convince yourself that whoever is offering you jobs is at least somewhat likely to find something you'll accept. And for the most part, even if you can't stand your headhunter, that should barely affect your job once you're signed on and getting paid. While I like that my agent calls me up or takes me out for drinks now and again, it's not worth losing much salary over.
I haven't met a good one (Score:2)
After spending a few months haggling with a few headhunters and going on about 15 interviews at jobs that I would not have taken if they offered it, I ended up getting the hook up from a friend.
He
Honest? (Score:2)
It's one thing for a headhunter/recruiter/placement firm to get your resume, say "well we'll keep your resume on file and keep in touch" and you never hear from them again. Perhaps they've tossed it or neglected you. Perhaps they really never come across anything you'd be qualified for. Perhaps they're incompetent. In any event, some would describe this as "dishonest" (the dishonesty being that they will call you back)
I guess the other side of the coin is headhunters who lie to get people
wait a minute... (Score:5, Funny)
While we're at it, I'm having trouble finding a starbucks in the San Francisco Bay Area. Can Slashdot help? Please send me the addresses of the one closest to me. I'd also like a free Frappucino.
Re:wait a minute... (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, a long time ago.... (Score:2)
That company went under, and when I tried to contact him again the phone number didn't work and mail was returned as undeliverable.
So, I talked to several headhunters and found one who at least acted honest. He also had a background as
Recruiters are a Good source for Identity Theft (Score:2, Interesting)
I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of these firms have a significant business on the side stealing identities. It is very lucrative, penalties are non-existent and there is almost no prosecution, so it's a natural niche
Hell, I used them (Score:3, Funny)
The problem with headhunters ... (Score:3, Informative)
I've had good results working with one particular headhunter, who found me my current job and negotiated a good starting deal for me, but I haven't talked to him or anyone else from his company for at least two years (I've been employed here 3+ years). So I'm not sure I'd trust him or the agency to represent me another time, just because of the lack of familiarity. Although I hadn't met him before my previous job search, and he got me my kick-ass job. I suppose I'd give him a call, just to let him know I was available again. Before this job, a headhunter found me my previous job, but it turned out that he and my former boss were old buddies. Since I conducted my last job search on the sly, I couldn't trust that recruiter not to tell my boss what I was doing. These are the kinds of risks inherent in dealing with headhunters when you're looking for work.
Guess I've been lucky... (Score:4, Informative)
I've worked with three companies since about '96 -- both as employer and employee, and found them to be extremely diligent. Most recently I landed an extremely good full time position at an excellent salary doing work on an interesting project. The recruiter who placed me still checks in occasionally with me and others she's placed at this company.
I am certain their are incompetent, and sometimes even deceitful recruiters out there, just as there are bad people in any field, luckily I haven't been hooked by one.
In the boom times of the late nineties, recruiters were everyone's buddies, often landing job-switchers with plum assignments at higher salaries. In the bust, even the good ones have got a bad rap - not returning emails and calls, failing to respond to resumes and correspondence, etc.
But look, IT recruiting is affected as much by the current economic cycle as developers, sysadmins, projects managers, and the rest.
At least one of the good ones I've worked with has switched careers, as business dried up. Others still have to sift through hundreds of resumes, emails, calls, and match those to a dwindling number of opportunities. It's only marginally easier to get a recruiters attention than a prospective employers these days, so how about this:
Practice selling yourself like the valuable resource you are. Here are some things that worked for me:
One more thing: Have trouble in social situations, expressing yourself to non-tech people, public-speaking? No matter, so do a lot of people, you're not alone. You can either change or expect that IT people with those skills may beat you out of opportunities. Take a public-speaking or debate course at a community college and practice. If you find yourself calling end-users 'lusers', think GUIs are for wimps, or get impatient with your grandma 'cause she can't ssh into your linux box, you need to pay close attention to what I've just said.
None of this will gurantee you'll always find honest, helpful recruiters, but at least you'll get their attention, if they're out there.
Create an Alternative! (Score:4, Interesting)
This book [amazon.com] is filled with great tips and advice on finding the "right" job. Moreover, apart from specific suggestions, its approach will get you thinking outside the box, so to speak, and you'll come up with your own ideas.
I've had some great ideas, over the years. Some have proven successful, and others had led to spectacular failure. But I've never regretted being creative in search of a good job, because it's always landed me someplace worth being.
Keep your resume and correspondence brief and sharp. You're almost always in competition for a prospective employer's attention, so you have to stand out from the pack. A four-page resume with solid blocks of text is a bad idea. Plan your resume visually, just like an advertisement -- because that's exactly what it is.
Do whatever you can to bypass the wall of "human resources," and get to the people who are empowered to recognize skill and talent. The primary purpose of an HR department is not to hire, but rather to screen. The first thing an HR employee looks for, when picking up someone's resume, is a reason why this person can't be right for the job.
Remind yourself of some basic marketing tips and techniques. I recommend all three of Harry Beckwith's books, starting with Selling the Invisible [amazon.com]. Everything, from your cover letter to your interview, is about selling yourself. Mention your skills, but focus on yourself. At the end of the day, in most cases, an employer isn't hiring a resume or a set of skills: He's hiring a person. You. The first three seconds of the interview are the most important, so smile and offer a firm handshake. Dress just a little bit better than is appropriate for the job; don't wear jeans, and don't wear a tux. Carry a "Thank You" card with you to the interview, and drop it into a mailbox as you leave.
Instead of trying to prove that you're the best choice, convince the employer that you're a good choice.
My two cents. [alt-usage-english.org]
cribIs there such a thing? (Score:3, Interesting)
A few hours later, he called back and said he asked around his office and found out there are chemicals you can put in your sample cup to hide drug traces.
So not only did he assume I was a druggie and a liar (even though I told him the true reason I asked), but thinking that, he decided to not only not tell the client but help me decieve the client. When I got the job, I told the story to my boss and the HR rep. They never used that agency again.
Head hunters are like car salesmen (or worse...they're like the dealership finance manager). They get big margins, rarely get repeat customers, have a short time to close the deal (so they use high pressure tactics), and have to make regular sales to keep their jobs.
Head hunters might actually be worse, since they have to con both parties of the sale, a car salesman doesn't deal with the manufacturer.
There are good headhunters out there (Score:3, Insightful)
The most important thing to know about headhunters (Score:3, Informative)
"Stride and Associates" (Score:3, Informative)
I once repsonded to this job posting and the recruiter wanted me to come in to their San Jose office and talk to them. They also wanted references. Sure, what the hell. I was told to make sure my resume was on their techie gold website. I came in, went through some dorky formulaic interview, and was sent on my way with promises that they'd be in touch. I'd been laid off recently, so I felt like I had accomplished something. This same office then used my "references" as contacts (I know, I was naive) and tried to pitch people to them and otherwise hit them up. They later screwed up with one of my references by claiming they were an authorized vendor for his company when there weren't - they had pitched a good guy, but my friend couldn't hire him.
Cut to a month later, and I am asked to come up to a recruiter in San Francisco. Before I get there they tell me about Techie Gold, and I tell them I'm already in there. When I get there the first thing I notice is that their computers are identical - the same iMacs appearing to run the same software as the place in San Jose. They run me through the SAME exact interview process (write some acronym on the resume and proceed to ask questions) and then I have to ask what their relationship to this other firm is. They say that they're both "Techie Gold Partners", whatever that means. I explain how their offices are laid out EXACTLY the same and the interview is EXACTLY the same. She repeats that they are "Techie Gold Partners". At least this time I didn't give them "references".
So I get home and do some digging around and realize that this company, Stride and Associates, is either selling headhunter franchies or operating these "companies" in the attempt to look diverse. Either way they aren't very honest about it, and aren't very good. If you talk to a company using one of those four names or who wants you to go to TechieGold to fill out your resume don't bother. They probably are just looking for "contacts" and don't really have the job anyway.
Re:"Stride and Associates" (Score:3, Interesting)
I dealt with Remington International in Chicago. They posted a job listing looking for people with experience in wireless internet and I replied. After a brief phone interview with a recruiter (which felt like a pressure sell from a used car guy), I filled out the stuff on TechiesGold.com and went downtown to talk to the recruiter/headhunter guy.
The open a
Don't believe the hype. (Score:4, Interesting)
That makes good business sense for a recruiting firm. Unfortunately, headhunters aren't looking to stay in that job for a long time. They either want to hop from job to job increasing their salaries and collecting bonuses along the way and cash out early (Much like the people they are trying to place.), or they're occupational transients-people who are smart and capable enough to handle a white-collar job, but not ready to settle into a career.
And don't forget that jobhunters know that headhunters are scum, and probably hate them just as much as you do. Smart techies often ignore headhunters altogether, instead just focusing on personal networking and direct applications to bigger companies with recruiting departments.
Do yourself-and the industry-a favor. Don't feed those bastards, and maybe they'll all die off.
Watch out for scams!!! (Score:3, Informative)
I recommend strong caution before you ever pay someone to assist you in your job search. For more information see: Jobscams.com [jobscams.com]
Re:I've dealt with many agencies. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I've dealt with many agencies. (Score:2)
Contract agencies... (Score:2, Funny)
I have... (Score:5, Interesting)
At the end of our conversation in which I mentionned I was a programmer and was looking for work, he said, well consider this your interview: you passed.
After that he got me a really cush job, but not after allowing me to turn down 3-4 crummy ones.
He even coached me on interview presentation, something which as a young person and a developer combined, I lacked even though my skills were good.
It's been roughly 4 years since, and I still talk with the guy, we go out for coffee sometimes etc. He's helped me out during times of depression/annoyement with the job market... overall career-saver for sure.
So it does exist, you just have to be lucky I guess.
On a side note, the company that ended up hiring me had and continues to have very close ties with the hiring firm. It's basically an extention of their PR department for hiring. No hiring done from outside that loop.