How Do Managers Rate On-line Universities? 109
pstreck asks: "I've been going to a traditional university part-time for a couple of years now and am finding the pace slow, and classes to be at inconvenient times. So I have been considering transferring to one of the on-line universities like ACCIS or the University of Phoenix. How do you managers look upon a degree from one of these universities?"
A Degree is... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A Degree is... (Score:2)
Most larger tech companies I know have HR departments that rate universities. The top rated universities graduates have a much easier time than others. Recruiting is also targeted at the best rated schools.
I think this is even more prevalent with business degrees.
Now, that said I did get my Masters degree from NTU (National Technological University). NTU is a pretty neat program. NTU works with member university's and just uses classes they are already having. By d
Re:A Degree is... (Score:3, Interesting)
I completely disagree. If I post a job on Monster for a programmer, I'll get 100 resumes in no time. University of Phoenix and community colleges are sorting to the bottom, unless there is some solid work experie
Re:A Degree is... (Score:1)
Strong communication skills indeed!
Re:A Degree is... (Score:1)
Re:Thats pretty ignorant.. (Score:2)
Alternatives to the slow pace (Score:5, Insightful)
The cool part was that when I went to interview for jobs, I had a lot of knowledge on varying subjects in the interview. The interviewers either didn't ask where that information came from or were impressed that I had gained that information from my own personal studies.
Sure, you can probably rush yourself through an online U faster than brick and mortar, but in my case I was better suited to take my time in school and use all of the slow time to expand the breadth of my knowledge.
Just because you didn't learn it by getting a sore rear end in a classroom doesn't mean you can't put it on a resume.
you dont have to spend much time on HW or in class (Score:4, Insightful)
I didnt know learning was so easy. If you want to learn something, you have to make sacrifice. I remember when I was in school for Computer Science, I spent close to 40+ hours/week for my final project and classes.
I understand that people who have fill-time jobs, and families dont have that kind of time, but as i said earlier, learning requires sacrifice. If you dont have time to take 2-3 classes, just take 1 class/semester at a regular uni.
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:1)
I don't think it's just a matter of having the time to go to class. When I was in school full-time, it seemed like the majority of the work was really on my own time anyway, and that most of the actual courses were extremely slow-paced. Even when the teachers could manage lectures in a fairly quick time and let people go once all of the questions were answered, the time between classes and the frequency (ie 2 or 3 time
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:1)
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:1)
On the other hand, almost every project I've worked on has required a significant amount of ramp-up time to get familiar with the specifics peculiar to that project. Although most of my work so far has had significant overlap, there's always been a lot of new ground to cover before real work starts.
That being said, the position I was originally hired for is nothing like what I'm doing now (they were basically hiring anyone that could do some moderate lifting and follow directions to
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:2)
That may be true in some (maybe even most) cases, but as they say, the exception makes the rule... In my own case, when I was hired for my present jo
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:4, Informative)
Having attended the local UOP classes and now being a UOP Online attendee, I can tell you that there are stark differences between the two. I found that the UOP standard classes were, IMHO, about equivelent to the local community college (which I also attended for a semester). There was a reasonable amount of homework and if you failed to achieve the minimum requirements that a college would expect of a student, most of the professors would reflect that in your grade.
The online university was quite different. The first thing I realized was that it was the first time in a university setting that I actually learned something.
You have to realize that the people in most of your classes are presently employed doing the things that you are learning. Because of the participation requirements, you learn far more from the students themselves than you ever learn from a university class at an undergrad level.
An outline of the typical class goes as follows: Each week you are given 3-4 questions about the reading/lecture that you must answer (different requirements per class on what constitutes an answer but usually a 100/200 or so word essay style question is asked). In addition to answering the questions, you are expected to post well-thought-out replies to the answers of other class mates (typically minimum 3 reponses per day for 5 days out of the week). This is your participation grade. In addition to that grade, you receive a grade on written assignments (usually 2/3 per week depending on the class, content, and professor).
Then comes the group project that starts in week 2. You are given a major project that you must complete in a group setting with 3-4 other students. The projects range from introducing 2/3 more written assignments per week to just a single large (report style) project you have to complete at the end of the class.
I was very surprised at the extent of work each class required. Now, of course, there are professors who will let you get away with doing next-to-nothing, who relax the participation restrictions (including one who didn't get the notice that I dropped his class and gave me a full passing grade in week 3...even though I had done none of the work) But you get that kind of crap in the university setting. The things I didn't get in the university setting was a group of professors with Master's degrees who had been working in the field (after degree completion) for at least 2 years. It's amazing going to a computer class being taught by someone who is presently employed in the field talking about the *real world*, not some BS set of concepts that programming instructors teach that when you get to the "First Job" you realize are done completely differently.
And I'll tell you, if you're aiming for a 4.0 in the class, you spend an hour or two per day just doing your participation requirements. You also dread landing a class where there are too few or too many students (too few means you can't come up with posts to make your participation grade, too many means you spend two hours reading through replies).
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:2, Interesting)
One thing I'm [f|c]urious about is the Microsoft requirements/bias throughout the UoP classes and websites (have to use Powerpoint to do your presentations and interact with the SmartBoards, stuff distributed in
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:1)
It's the biggest drawback of their program, really. I tried to us Mozilla's Mail/News reader but I had trouble configuring it to use the Secure Password Authentication system they were using. I didn't spend much time on getting it
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:1)
Outside of
Re:you dont have to spend much time on HW or in cl (Score:4, Funny)
Why does that sound so familiar?
Two pennies (Score:2)
Just for the record, dimes and quarters are $20 to the pound. Pretty much exactly, enough that you can accurately count money on an electronic grocery store scale.
Yea I know, totally OT but Im wicked undercaffeinated this morning.
Think about. (Score:3, Insightful)
or
Hello Bob. I hear that you graduated from the University of Phoenix online school. Tell me about that. Zzzzzz
Can you do the work? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Can you do the work? (Score:1)
Are Certs with Retsin even better then? Do they make the network minty fresh?
Re:Can you do the work? (Score:1)
Thats kinda interesting. When I was responsible for hiring people, a cert was a big strike against you. Most of the people with most certs (and there were a few exceptions - but they were rare and not usually in the field I was hiring. I was looking for programmers at the time.) had gone the route of
and didn't really know anything about the field they had just certified in. Quite honestly, I didn't care about the details of the l
Re:Can you do the work? (Score:2)
Then you were doing yourself and your employer a disfavor. Certification certainly doesn't PROVE that you know what you're doing, and I'm sure there are plenty of "paper <insert certification>'s" out there, but there is another side to certifications.
Take a fairly difficult certification, like Sun Certified Java Programmer... you cannot take a 1 day seminar and pass the SCJP test. And it would be difficult to pass th
1 day for certs is way out of line (Score:2)
If it takes a day to get a cert now then difference in standards between industry certifications and degrees is getting really obvious. I picked up seven degrees last week just by replying to my e-mails! Two of them were PhDs with gold certificates and it only cost me an extra three quid. :-)
(Seriously, I completely agree with everything you wrote. An
Re:Can you do the work? (Score:2)
I think more then anything this illustrates that the hiring process is just a great big ego reinforcement act for the hiring manager. They all want to hire whoever mirrors their own worldview to prove it's correctness.
Depends what they're looking for (Score:3, Insightful)
If the manager -- or anyone else -- is actually looking for the degree as a sign that you are qualified for a position, having a "degree" from such an institution is only going to hurt you, because it shows that you look for the cheapest and easiest way of getting a piece of paper rather than looking to obtain a real qualification.
You know what people say about MSCEs? This is the academic equivalent.
Re:Depends what they're looking for (Score:2)
As to the quality of the education I can't speak.
Re:Depends what they're looking for (Score:2)
Re:Depends what they're looking for (Score:2)
OR..this:
Hiring Manager: Hmm, I see here that you haven't worked in 4 years, can you explain to me why?
You: Well yes, I put my entire life on hold for 4 years, quit my job and everything, to go back to school. But now t
Re:Depends what they're looking for (Score:1)
Saying: "I wanted to chill for four years, drink cheap beer and chase skirts. Oh, and by the by, I picked up a Business Admin degree" is probably not going to work.
Mentioning the projects you were involved in, the groups you were a part of, etc, on the other hand, show a whole other set of skills that the employer can exploit
They aren't mutually exclusive (Score:2)
I took 5 years to graduate with degrees in MIS and Finance. I also have a minor in French (you need ~130 hours to graduate, I had 183 at graduation). The entire time I worked 35-40 hours a week waiting tables and made more than enough to live on (btw Oklahomans tip like shit). It can be done, you just have to do it. This is how I got my first job. My GPA sucked (2.97 Overall) but when you list outside act
Re:They aren't mutually exclusive (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Depends what they're looking for (Score:2)
Agreed. In a age where real universities such as City [city.ac.uk] and Oxford [ox.ac.uk] do part-time courses, it's very difficult to justify a "rubber stamping" course.
That depends (Score:2)
Re:That depends (Score:3, Funny)
Then have I got the course for you! Send me a couple of thousand dollars (cashier's check or money order please -- no personal checks) and I'll get back to you in a couple of years....
Even more important: (Score:3, Insightful)
There is a list [ed.gov] of accreditors recognized by the U.S. Department of Education--make sure your school's accreditor is on it, and verify with that accreditor that the it accredits the school--before you spend your first dime.
Also, even though the Distance Education and Training Council (through which AACIS now has accredidation) is a recognized accreditor, a degree earned from an insitution accredided by it will not be as well regarded as one from a school with regional accredidation.
Re:Even more important: (Score:2)
Re:Even more important: (Score:2)
Re:Even more important: (Score:2)
University of Maryland University College [umuc.edu] has just such an accreditation [umuc.edu]; it also has an extensive online curriculum. [umuc.edu] I have seriously considered going back to school with them (but haven't yet, so I can't comment on their quality. But the advantage of the accreditation puts them head-n-shoulders above every other online Uni that I've found, at least in the US.)
Re:Even more important: (Score:2)
CHEA [chea.org] has a search engine for such things.
depends on subject (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't doubt that you can learn more quicker from an online course. The idea that everyone needs to be stuffed up in an auditorium with a lecturer droning on and on to learn anything is as dated as oil-lamps. Real learning isn't achieved by passively sitting back and barely making it through lectures awake. Real learning is done by actively pursuing information that you think is useful and interesting. I learned more about economics in the week it took me to read Human Action than in the 6 weeks it took me to complete a boring and useless introductory economics course at the University of Rochester. Real learning is done by actually thinking about things, not slavish memorization (though memorization is important).
So, basically, I think the idea that online courses aren't as good as live courses is bullshit. If anything, online courses weed out those who can't hack it better, because with an online course, you are completely responsible for taking the initiative. It's very easy to just not do the necessary work when you can schedule it for anytime you want. Quite frankly, I think employers should be impressed by those who set aside their "leisure time" away from work to actually learn something.
Of course, what impresses individual employers will vary. However, a piece of paper from Harvard is just that -- a piece of paper from Harvard. It doesn't prove that you can hack it anywhere. On the other hand, someone without any little certificate may be able to hack it anywhere he pleases; you may have to volunteer to work on a trial basis for free for a week or two, though. Sufficed to say, if you have the knowledge, talent, and work-ethic, employers will recognize that.
Hands-On (Score:2, Funny)
I knew a girl who was taking chemistry and had some hands-on experience with her professor. Needless to say, she was expelled and the professor fired (he wasn't tenured).
what non-sense (Score:2)
Re:what non-sense (Score:1, Troll)
Re:depends on subject (Score:1)
Anything can be taught at a distance. All of the disciplines will be better for having hands-on experience. All disciplines have the potential for greater understanding through more contact with people who are experienced in the field.
The point being that book learning has a limit, in any field.
please (Score:2)
Re:please (Score:1)
lol (Score:2)
State of education (Score:5, Insightful)
Least that's what I think. Personally, with s omuch of America's workforce working 50-60 hours a week (at least us IT types), it can be an impossibility to go get a post-graduate degree. I hope the idea of online coursework becomes more prevalent for this reason. It will give those of us with the will but not hte time the chance.
learning vs employability (Score:2)
Yes, I'd look at it a bit differently if I was single, especially if I was young.
Re:State of education (Score:2)
I used to say the same thing, but not any more. Education is expensive both in terms of money and time. I do believe in education for its own sake, but when it comes to spending large amounts of money to do so I think it makes sense to look at it as an investment that
Re:State of education (Score:2)
A Bachelorate (sp?) degree is a pass to earn between 25-40k, a masters 40-60, and a phd, 60-100. That's all it is and all it's ever been. Western society suffers from overwhelming credentialism. You can't do *SHIT* in this society without a credential. If you don't believe me, I'm now going to paste for you a list of professions the state of california issues licenses for.
ACCOUNTANCY Individual Li
Here's the thing (Score:1, Insightful)
The thing is, if you give two shits about your learning, save your money and go to a Real school with Real teachers. If you want to get knuckled fucked, don't give a flying fuck about learning anything, and have incredible self-dicipline, then maybe check this crap out.
Crap is being nice too.
Here's how it works: you pay lots of money and don't learn a fucking thing that you can't teach your
Re:Here's the thing (Score:1)
As does the auditorium model where you don't interact with the instructor.
At least online with a web form, if you have the ideal teaching application, it will keep presenting and quizzing you with the material you miss and race through the material you're good at. That plus some web chat with the instructors might be bett
Re:Here's the thing (Score:2)
How ironic that you post to a discussion website to complain about the lack of interaction available online.
I completed my degree from RIT (well, actually I'm one library fine away from having my degree...) by taking online courses while I worked. I started my degree full-time going to 'Real' classe
Re:Here's the thing (Score:1)
The University of Phoenix is a real brick and mortar university here in sunny Phoenix, AZ. I don't go to U of P but I do have a buddy that teaches there and says the classes in a classroom are good. He also states that they put alot into the online stuff so that, just like a brick and mortar school, the student gets out of it what they put in. I'd bet that just as many, if not more Stu
Re:Here's the thing (Score:1)
Re:Here's the thing (Score:1)
Maybe not, but you don't get a nice diploma for teaching yourself..
don't like for their marketing methods. (Score:2)
Also one of the traditional UK Uni's (Liverpool) are using this route too. Not impressed
It's a gamble. (Score:1)
Re:As a "hiring manager"... (Score:1)
Re:As a "hiring manager"... (Score:2)
First impression (Score:1)
My boss has an MBA from U of M. One of his profs said that it doesn't matter which school you go to in terms of what you learn. Instead you pay for the school with the most strict admissions.
Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
A lot of "real" colleges and universities are making more and more stuff available via distance/online education programs these days, as well. So maybe you can get a degree from a scho
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
That is why, when you interview someone, you should ask innocous but highly informative questions about the education, such as "Were you in a frat/sorority? Did you live in the dorms, or off-campus? Who was your (least) favorite professor?"
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:1)
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
There were drunken girls getting into my room in the middle of the night because I forgot to lock the door. Sometimes I think I could hear people having sex right in the hallway.
That's one of the best parts of college!
One way to tolerate people you don't like is to deal them on a professional basis only. Living with them makes it personal and shows your ability to handle personal, not professional, situations.
If you are with a group of people for 8+ hours a day for 5 days a week, it will become
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
What would you say of someone who went to school phsyically, but did not stay in resident housing? What about someone with their own condo? Someone who lives at home with their parents? Or are you only going to hire someone rich enough to afford 4 years of campus living?
Lastly do you think university is the only place where one can learn social skills? What if the person has them already?
If all a Un
Re:Does your "real" college offer online courses? (Score:2)
The justifications for getting an on-campus education are getting flimsier and more pathetic by the minute.
Keep on telling yourself that.
What would you say of someone who went to school phsyically, but did not stay in resident housing? What about someone with their own condo?
If they have their own condo, either their parents have a good deal of cash, or they will have a bunch of room-mates anyway, even though they aren't in the dorm.
Someone who lives at home with their parents?
If someone ca
Online is only good... (Score:1)
Re:the opposite sex (Score:1)
Except, run them off, of course.
AIU - American Intercontinental University (Score:1)
Two thumbs up, and nobody seems to care what school name is on the degree. I really think that matters more for advanced degrees.
University of London (Score:2)
You may also want to take a look at University of Waterloo [uwaterloo.ca]. It has an excellent distance program too, and it is also a prestigious institution.
Finally, if UoL and UoW are not on your short list, check out this awesome list of accredited distance education schools [degree.net].
I was in a situation similar to yours and I didn't want to waste time and money on a bullshit
Slightly better than useless (Score:1)
I will appreciate the fact that a working adult spent the time and effort to get a degree. But, having attended the University of Phoenix for two years, I can confidently assert that the education received there is useless and that a resume that comes across my desk had better impress me with a lot else besides educational background.
This topic is still young and already I see a bunch of posts along the lines of "it doesn't matter where you went, 'caus
Re:Slightly better than useless (Score:1)
How I qualified ACCIS as my university of choice (Score:3, Interesting)
I did two years of undergrad at Virginia Tech back before the dot-com boom beckoned me into the Hells of the corporate world, so when it came time to decide whether or not ACCIS would be worth my while, I called the Virginia Tech Comp Sci department. One of the professors there was nice enough to speak with me. I asked him to look over the ACCIS BSCS curriculum for me and let me know if completion of that curriculum would be considered a good step towards entering the graduate studies at VT for a Comp Sci Masters Degree.
As soon as he emailed me back and "yes, it looks like a good curriculum and will more than satisfy the requirements for CS graduate studies at VT", I enrolled. I know you don't have to have a degree in any certain discipline to take graduate level courses, but he has a doctorate or two (including Comp Sci) and gave his stamp of approval. That's good enough for me.
Now if only I can actually get some time to do the work. It's hard with all of these website review [packetvision.net] requests [mailto] coming in
Purpose of a degree (Score:1)
social interaction (Score:2)
Depending upon the course, you have to consider the benefits of social interaction. For example, debating with other students or the teachers, or interacting in tutorials, or practicals (for science/engineering), or networking (e.g. if you are a mid-career professional taking a more management style course, then part of the experience is to meet others with similar backgrounds/experiences - not only is this rewarding just to share the experiences and learn from others, but it can be good networking for care
If having a presitgious school name is important, (Score:1)
= 9J =
listen.. (Score:1)
Don't mind those people... they're totally unrealistic. Comparing an online university to Harvard or Ivy league ones is ridiculous, 'cos most people can't get into these anyway.
I don't know about UoPhoenix or DeVry, but what i know is that the MBA from The Open University in England has a very good reputation, and it's a correspondence school. I am not sure about their other courses but i know they have a long long history of corresponce degrees and are generally respected.
That said, however, I'd sug
Re:listen.. (Score:2)
I just graduated from ACCIS... (Score:1)