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How Effective is Online Dispute Resolution? 38

Posted by Cliff from the grading-the-mediators dept.
An anonymous reader asks: "I recently had a website stolen from my ownership and removed from my hosting company. The hosting companies all say that everything looked legitimate to them, but I know it isn't and I can prove it. ICANN, WIPO and other dispute resolution services are expensive and I do not have the money to pursue. What alternatives are there as far as online dispute resolutions and other forms of mediation? I have talked to a computer lawyer and they were of no help because they were not familiar with this situation either. What methods of dispute resolution (auctions, domain names, etc.) have others at Slashdot used? How effective are they?"
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How Effective is Online Dispute Resolution? More

How Effective is Online Dispute Resolution?

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  • Russian mafia (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 23, 2003 @03:52AM (#7288513)
    Reasonable fees and fast resolution service. Success guaranteed, although most of the work is really done offline.

    • +1 Insightful (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Dancin_Santa ( 265275 )
      Rarely, if ever, has there been any trouble getting the Russian mafia to take care of business in a quick and efficient manner. And unlike the Chinese and Italian boobs who think they own you after *you* hired *them*, the Russian mafia goes about its merry way after the job is done and fees are paid in full.

      Highly recommended, especially over the alternatives.

      • That post just gives me the shudders. Or maybe it's the +2 insightful?

        Well, I suspect the Russian Mafia will have one less customer after the Sicilians and the Chinese learn that you consider them to be boobs. Which begs the question: does the Mafia take offense to being called sleazy criminals?
        • this reminds me of Snow Crash [isbn.nu] where Hiro is just getting out of school and trying to decide between a career in the mafia or the Yakuza. He meets with a "recruiter" from the mafia, and he says, "The Japanese Mafia. Tell me something... you ever hear anyone describe our thing as 'The Sicilian Yakuza?'" :-)
      • Using the Russian mafia to bust up those annoying elf unions, eh?

  • Expensive (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Basje ( 26968 ) <bas@bloemsaat.org> on Thursday October 23, 2003 @04:11AM (#7288566) Homepage
    I'm at the moment halfway through lawschool, and one thing I have learned is this: getting justice done is expensive.

    To have knowledgable unbiased people say anything useful, they have to become familiar with the case. This costs a lot of time, thus money. Besides that, it costs you a lot of time.

    So, if you think dispute resolution is more expensive than your loss, don't take that route, but take your loss. Learn from your experience.

    Next time select a trustworthy hosting provider. Make sure you have a clause in your contract that prevents this kind of problems.
    • And you forgot... rarely is justice ever done. Sure the guy may get his domain back, but is that justice done? No, justice done would be whoever stole it getting hit with a tire-iron in a dark alley.

      This isn't going to go over with the PC crowd... but the reason people even try these things is because there is no real penalty. How many people here have spent a night or two in jail? It's no big deal, let me assure you.

      The justice system is getting way to lax (or has it always been that way)? Deferred

      • You speak as if you have experience with this matters. So let me ask you: isn't there a risk of becoming the next Mitnick, and spending 5 years of your life in jail? Or is that considered just too remote a possibility, like winning the lottery? Or is it not considered at all, either because it is remote, or because criminals habitually do not have long-term vision to evaluate their odds over the course of a career?

        I find it interesting that the back of the 'zine 2600 includes ads from "hackers", purpo
        • Most criminals lack long-term vision. They also have that "not me" mentality. (Which is really prevalent among all of society.) If they thought they would get caught and punished severely, then most probably wouldn't do it.

          Also, a lot of criminals survive just because people don't care enough to enforce the laws. I have friends that will go to Wal-Mart, take a DVD, walk right out with the buzzer and little flashing orange lights going off, get in their car and drive away. Does anyone come running afte
      • The lax part is a GOOD thing, IMHO, considering most people end up in the justice system due to our inane drug laws.

        As far as being on probation being "time out", most people in jail (at least locally, I don't know the stats) are there because of violation of probation. Probation itself is no cakewalk, and is rather intrusive in one's life.

        I don't want this to devolve into some lame political rant, though I have to wonder if you'd rather give people a chance with alternatives to jail before we lock them
        • Are you kidding?! Probation is a joke! How do I know? I'm on it right now. For every person arrested for violating their probation, there are hundreds that violate theirs and don't get caught.

          There are simply not enough jails or officers to make a dent in the crime problem. Most people just don't notice (nor the FBI) because most crime happens between criminals. The average person would have a nervous breakdown if they truly knew how unsafe they are.

          • So every kid who gets caught with pot should get thrown in the slammer? Likewise, do you think everyone who smokes dope or even shoots up is a threat to you? Let's reform the insane drug laws in this country and then you can tell me that the criminal justice system is too lax.
            • Um, getting caught with pot in an amount for personal use is punished about the same as public intoxication or something like that (ie no big deal).

              Most people that have drug habits have other "bad" habits as a result, and those are the threat to me.

  • Persistance is a virtue. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I would see what just writing a letter to them, asking what they plan to do to rectify their mistake brings.

    Then start looking into suing them. They helped another person steal your property. It doesn't really matter that they thought they were being helpful. I might be inclined to file a police report. It's new, you read slashdot, experiment. I'd find out as much as I could about this area of law, and try to sue them in my jurisdiction in small claims. I'd write my representatives at every level, my
    • You would actually consider doing all this stuff? Sure, they sound reasonable and maybe the "proper" thing to do, but who the hell is actually going to go through with all this crap?

      Tell me you've actually wrote your "representatives at every level" and "maybe the occasional newspaper" over an issue that no one really cares about and I will be very surprised.
  • if you aren't willing to go the suing route(or asking for criminal investigation, or if you even know who did it but know that he/she is too far away for you to have any real possibilities for a court or other resolution) move it back to you the same way it was moved from you.

    i know, it's not a real solution and possible illegal, so you might want to try the other options before trying.

    (oh yeah and if you can spot an error in the hosting companys behauvior, skipping necessary checks & etc, you could t

  • Stolen Domains Typically a Registrar Issue... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Ron Bennett ( 14590 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @06:50AM (#7288948) Homepage
    The person needs to contact the registrar which the domain name was registered through to see what the status of the domain is...

    If the domain was registered for them by their webhost, then they need to contact them again and ask what domain name registrar(s) they use.

    Once they have contacted the proper registrar (there are about 100 of them to choose from, plus zillions of resellers), they'll likely be a lot closer to know what happened.

    Another important detail is was the domain name active (website working) and then suddenly went "dead", etc or was it the domain one that was "forgotten" about for awhile?

    Some possibilities...

    * Either one got control of the registrar account for the domain or they tricked their registrar in releasing it and transferring it to another registrar and took control over it that way.

    * The domain name could have expired - though typically there's a window of time where the domain doesn't resolve before actually being deleted...so for an active website, it's unlikely for this to occur since one usually has time to renew it even if it's been removed from the .com zone...plus there's an additional redemption period giving one even more time; at a hefty price.

    * Domain was never registered to the person to begin with ... perhaps it was actually in the name of the webhosting company or other entity which has since redirected the domain elsewhere.

    * Whois information and/or other details were incorrect and someone filed a complaint about it to ICANN. The window of time before deletion in such instances can be much shorter and I'm not sure the redemption period applies or not...anyone know? This is really a "catch-22"...for if one's Whois information is wrong, how can they be contacted to correct it.

    * UDRP was filed...assuming the person's Whois information was correct (reiterates again why updated Whois info is so important!), they should have received some emails and I believe at least one notice by regular Post. They can quickly determine if their name was involved a UDRP action by search the UDRP section at ICANN's website. On an aside, if one loses a UDRP, they can then attempt to file suit in Federal court...some folks have successfully done that.

    If the domain name was lost via UDRP or deleted, there's likely little to nothing they can realistically do to recover it.

    However, if the domain name was "stolen", they need to first build a timeline...

    1. What date did they register it?

    2. Who did they register it through?

    3. How long was it registered for...1 year, 2 years, more? (2 years is no longer the default - 1 year is very common now)

    4. Did they change registrars and/or hosting in that time...if so, on what dates? -and for what reasons?

    5. When did they discover the domain name was no longer under their control?

    If someone simply gained control of the domain name account *at the registrar*, then it's simple matter of contacting the registrar and having change the information back to the correct account holder.

    If someone transferred the domain name out to another registrar and then took control of the domain, then it gets a bit more complicated...they'll have to contact both their original registrar as well as the registrar that it was transferred to...some registrars go out of their way to assist other registrars with such problems, while others such as Network Solutions (recently sold by VeriSign, so maybe they'll get better) generally don't give a damn and stonewall.

    If the domain name is listed as being owned by their webhosting company instead of them (sounds from the story this is NOT the case, but mention this possibility since it's a common problem), then they should contact their webhosting company and have the Registrant field updated so it's in their name and not that of their webhosting company - one often has to negotiate here and make it worth the webhosting companies time to do this...
    • Addendum:

      My comments above apply primarly to .COM and .NET domain names, though some is applicable to other other gTLDs.

      Other gTLDs such as .ORG and .INFO have somewhat different policies; different security schemes.

      If the domain name in question is in a ccTLD, such as .NU, .CC, etc, then much of what I posted doesn't apply. ccTLDs can be very difficult to deal with due to policy and jurisdictional issues; culture and customs.

      Ron Bennett

  • goatse.cx (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by sICE ( 92132 )
    ok, ok, i know it's out of topic, trolling and blah, but if you know goatse.cx (and who doesnt on /.), the pumkin [1fineline.com] is a must see...

  • computer lawyer? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Johnny Mnemonic ( 176043 ) <mdinsmore&gmail,com> on Thursday October 23, 2003 @08:49AM (#7289423) Homepage Journal

    A "computer lawyer"? Does that look something like:

    Hello! It looks like you're trying to stake a patent claim! Would you like me to:
    • Send out invoices?
    • Issue a press release?
    • Contact your attorney?

    Kidding aside, is that actual specialty of law now?
    • "Kidding aside, is that actual specialty of law now?"

      It'll have it's own department shortly, just called 'Intellectual Property'. In all seriousness, though, If you followed the SCO thing in great detail you want to go take a look at Mark Haise's take on the GPL. It makes you weep and laugh at the same time.


      • "Kidding aside, is that actual specialty of law now?"


        It'll have it's own department shortly, just called 'Intellectual Property'.


        Sounds funny, but it's true. Many reputable lawyer firms have had departments named that exactly, for years.
    • IANAL, but in the UK now its often referred to as 'IP & IT' (Intellectual Property and Information Technology Law)'.

      It can cover topics like :

      • Confidentiality
      • Copyright
      • Data protection
      • Databases
      • Designs
      • E-commerce
      • Information technology
      • Patents
      • Research and development
      • Trade marks
      • Telecommunications

      I work for a company [practicallaw.com] who provide on-line legal know for lawyers practising in those areas - things like domain name dispute resolution are certainly covered by it.

  • A "cheap" idea. (Score:2, Informative)

    by gmiller123456 ( 240000 )
    While actually pursuing legal action against them is expensive, just having a lawyer write them a letter asking to open channels of communication will normally scare them into submission. You know legal action is expensive, and they know that too, and if they know they'll loose they'll probably back off if they think you're willing to put up the cash.

  • File for theft. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kabocox ( 199019 ) on Thursday October 23, 2003 @10:49AM (#7290455)
    Go down to your local police station and file a police report saying that your electronic busniess name and address that you were paying X amount per Y time were stolen from you. Do a look up on the current "owner." Present all your information to your local police and you should at least be able to get a misd. theft on the individual.

    I don't know if it would work, but it is worth a shot. I know my local police would atleast look into it.

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