3-Button Mice - An Endangered Species? 222
eschasi asks: "eschasi recently got a new job, which includes a new PC on which to run UNIX and X. After much grovelling through the vendor catalog and the used equipment boxes for a simple 3-button mouse, he finally had to bring one from home. Shortly thereafter he was browsing the local CompUSAs and BestBuys, and saw not a single actual 3-button mouse. Oh yes, there were things which masqueraded as 3-button mice, but they weren't. They were scroll mice where you had to depress the scroll to get a middle click, or where the third button was under the thumb, or where the third button was unreachable because of the scroll. Sun's still come with 3-button mice, so there must be some being made. Are these still in the retail market anywhere? Frankly, they're too small for eschasi's big hands.
The only place a basic 3-button mouse was found for sale was eBay, and they guy selling it called it 'rare.' Is the classic 3-button mouse largely dead? If so, what are you folks moving toward?"
How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:5, Insightful)
True, some scroll mice have the problem that the wheel will generate scroll events when the scroll wheel is clicked. If this is a problem, then simply configure X to NOT recognize such events. Voi la - a three button mouse.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2, Interesting)
Because the middle button on a wheel mouse is a lame excuse for a real button. My middle button is a big , wide button with a stable feel to it. In other words, it's intended to be a button. The middle button on every wheel mouse I've tried is narrow, awkward, and obviously not intended to be a button in the first place.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:3, Informative)
I have learned. [harvard.edu]
I can't speak for you, or the freakish condition of your flippers, but for me it is just as easy to use a thin scroll wheel as a fat middle button.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:5, Insightful)
Everyone I've ever discussed it with agrees that the optical scroll mouse is the pinacle of mice technology.
Scroll wheels are already obsolete. (Score:4, Informative)
I use a LogiTech Trackman Marble FX.
Left button, middle button and right button AND if I tilt my thumb slightly it hits the fourth button and the 2" (approx) ball becomes a scroll SPHERE. It scrolls both vertically and horizantally. I have had the device for a number of years, it has never needed cleaning and about the only improvement that I could think off would be batteryless IR (which I don't think exists yet).
Every person who has sat at my desk and used it has gone out and bought one. There is simply nothing better in the marketplace that I or anyone I know has ever seen.
It makes any other kind of pointing device look sick.
Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete. (Score:2, Interesting)
The Trackman Marble FX (the original!) is THE best pointing device. Strangely enough it is widely unknown, and people seem to object to it - without actually trying to use it - because it is different. It's accurate, reliable and has a lot of functions. Great for work, great for FPS. The only thing that is somewhat difficult is right-dragging; but that's something you do not need to do often.
You would have trouble prying my TM FX out of my cold dead hands.
Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete. (Score:2)
It will take a litte bit of extra configuration to get all your buttons wo
Re:Scroll wheels are already obsolete. (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
As to being slow, it's configurable (at least on KDE and moz), and you can make it quicker holding ctrl, alt, or whatever you have configured to be "mode page up/down on scroll wheel"...
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
That's one of my gripes about keyboards. The way they add all the additional keys on the right it is like they expect you to either use a left-handed mouse or a keyboard tray that's longer on the left than the right.
Give me a keyboard where the numeric keypad is on the left side instead. Or a three-piece keyboard that lets me place the numeric keypad, cursor key cluster section, and ma
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:3, Informative)
Myself, I'd certainly differentiate between a scroll-wheel mouse and a generic three-button mouse. When I want to press the middle button, I don't want it rolling around under my finger (or tilting, the way some of the track-point style ones do).
That said, I think the poster just isn't doing his homework. I realize that Micro Center [microcenter.com] is only in about 13 States, but their online store seems to have about a half dozen [microcenter.com] likely candidates. $1.50 for a white Belkin, or be a big spender and plop down a whole fi
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:4, Insightful)
Really, a Scroll mouse with third button emulation is the way to go. YOu get the best of both worlds with that. YOu get the scroll events in the apps that recognize them, and still get to keep middle-click pasting.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2, Funny)
The middle button simply acts as the third button on my machine.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:5, Insightful)
What's wrong with a scroll wheel? Several things. First, most scroll mice aren't wide enough for three fingers to rest naturally. A two button scroll mouse that isn't any wider than a two button non-scroll mouse is too narrow.
Second, given a wider two button mouse that I can comfortable rest my middle finger on, I need a scrollwheel that is stiff enough that I'm not scrolling accidentally all the time.
Third, a scrollwheel isn't a button, even though it can act like one. It doesn't feel like a button. What if instead of two buttons and a scrollwheel, there were only one button and a scrollwheel? Click on the scroll wheel for the RMB. Do you think people would be happy with that? Of course not!
Fourth, and most important, why shouldn't I have a real middle button? Since 98% of my computing is done in a UNIX environment, that middle button gets used a lot. More often than the right button in fact.
A scrollwheel is convenient. I won't deny that. But why must it be on the mouse. Think about it. You don't position anything when you're using a scrollwheel. And you don't need any fine control over it. A scrollwheel on the middle-bottom of the keyboard would be much more convenient. Or keep it on the mouse but put it on the left side by the thumb.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe not the middle bottom, but still pretty cool, if you ask me. Microsoft may suck at a lot of things, but they can usually churn out pretty decent hardware.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:3, Insightful)
Holy fuck, why not just rearrange all the keys on the damn keyboard while they are at it. I don't even think about keyboarding anymore - after 20+ years the keyboard is simply an extension of my thought process, words move from my head to the screen in a swift fluid motion
Dammit (Score:2)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's like the epitome of bad design, but it's not just Microsoft. All the "internet keyboards" have similar idiocies. I guess that's why I still use an IBM Model M at home.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:3, Informative)
As for the center cluster, they've been made more useful. In Windows, the Insert key is almost never used anymore. The Delete key is quite often used, and makes more sense to an inexperienced user than the Backspace key. I, and probably the majority of others, use Home more often than End. In the new arrangement, Page Up and Down are one key-width closer.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
In today's vehicles the pedal arrangement is : Clutch, Brake, Gas. Most people don't give it much thought anymore and rely on muscle memory to create a direct link from thought to vehicle control. It may be argued that rearranging them Clutch, Gas, Brake is more efficient, but that won't stop a million people a year from killing themselves with the new arrangement. More likely, the cars with the new arrangement won't sell very well and the
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
It took me a whole week before I got rid of mine. During that entire week I was very uncomfortable with it, but I figured I would adjust to it. I never did.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
Its worse than that, even when not even touching the wheel HalfLife will randomly register an event, which is a real pain considering I have my mousewheel down set to switch to a flashbang and mousewheel up set to switch to a grenade, so out of nowhere in the middle of a fire fight I'll be force to pull out a grenade, leaving me unable to shoot for about 500ms, enough time to get shot in the face
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
I also do a lot of cutting and pasting in X, and a real button is just so much easier then a scroll weel for me.
Re:How is a scroll wheel mouse not a three button? (Score:2)
I have a big old ratpadz plastic mouse pad that makes the mechanical mouse ok if I keep it clean, but pure optical would make me happier..
Let me see (Score:5, Interesting)
There's a reason they're not being sold as much. You can click a wheel perfectly well, but you can't scroll a button.
Re:Let me see (Score:2, Insightful)
Sounds like a song by REO Speedwagon [openupandsay.com].
While the wheel can and does function as a button, I can understand the frustration of the poster. I have used various wheel mice and have yet to find consistent feel even between identical models (logitech cordless freedom pro excluded). On some mice, scrolling the wheel inadvertently generates clicks if the spring is too soft. If too hard, you generate scrolls when having to force the click.
For t
Re:Let me see (Score:3, Insightful)
On
Re:Let me see (Score:2)
Re:Let me see (Score:2)
If this was true, there would be no mice with buttons - you'd have them with three scroll-wheels instead...
As a previous poster already said - imagine if your RMB was a scroll-wheel - how happy would you be with it?
The fact that mice come with buttons and wheels shows that they are not, in fact, the same.
Re:Let me see (Score:2)
Just because a scroll wheel can be used as a button does not mean that it's logical to have nothing but scroll wheels. You are trying to adapt the notion of ad absurdum, taking a particular facet of an argument to its most extreme case. This rarely works with engineering. For example, a suspension bridge may have thre
Re:Let me see (Score:2)
You can do work in Windows in place of Unix perfectly well. A large portion of the consumer population seems to agree with me.
This may be true, but it's irrelevant. Some of us, myself included, strongly prefer a real, honest-to-god, middle button that's just as big as the other two, and feels like the other two. Yes, we could use a wheel, just like we could drink Pepsi
Re:Let me see (Score:2)
Does everyone use the third button? Of course not. There are many folks (novice Mac users) who use just one.
However, your rebuttal serves my point better than yours. The consumer population in general sees value in a wheel where they didn't see (as much) value in a third button. Whereas the third button never really took off (for whatever reasons), the wheels caused a huge influx of new mouse purchases. I thin
Scroll wheel (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean what did everyone start using so long that nobody even makes the old 3-button mouses anymore?
Most people I know use wheel mouses, duh. I use a Logitech Trackman Wheel.
In Windows the third mouse button was never very heavily used, which is why it's being relegated to the secondary function of the scroll wheel, which gets used tons. I for one find the soft rubbery click of the scroll wheel a sublime tactile sensation. Plus it scrolls stuff!
Though really, what's wrong with clicking the scroll wheel to middle click? It's in the middle (like the old middle button used to be) and if you have a stiff enough one (logitech!) then you won't also accidently scroll while doing it.
Re:Scroll wheel (Score:3, Funny)
Your finger goes from solid form to gaseous without stopping at the liquid state in between? Neat!
PS Welcoming the sublimating overlords as well.
Re:Scroll wheel (Score:2)
Because it's not a button. I work in a UNIX environment 98% of the time, and I actually use the middle button more often than the right button.
Would you accept a mouse that didn't have a right button but a scrollwheel instead? You can still click on it, so what's the problem? My guess is that you wouldn't like it though.
Button Numbers on Mice (Score:4, Funny)
1 button mouse: Click your single |3u770n, n00b!
2 button mouse: Stiff, corporate dweeb.
3 button mouse: Trying to be cool
5 button mouse: Cool in a Yugo sort of way
7 button mouse: Almost there.
9 button mouse with scroll wheel: H4x0r g0d!
Of course, I blow everyone away with my 105 button [pckeyboard.com] mouse.....
105 button mouse (Score:3, Funny)
So disappointing...
Re:105 button mouse (Score:2)
Re:Button Numbers on Mice (Score:2)
I couldn't find a nine-button mouse with scroll wheel, but I did find a ten-button trackball with scroll wheel [keytools-e...mics.co.uk]... but the most outrageous mouse I've ever seen was a three-button mouse that also had a ten-key numeric pad and an array of programmable buttons -- something like thirty or forty buttons all told.
No wheels? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why? Wheels are just too handy for browsing the web to not have one. And since quite a few million people tend to use teh interweb on a regular basis, wheels are quite popular. So it only makes sense that you'd find them on every product out there - consumers want, producers give. Hell, i've got a scroll wheel on my keyboard! (Logitech Elite [logitech.com])
For most people, theres just no good reason NOT to have a wheel on their mouse. The third (middle) button function is built right into the wheel (wheel-click), so you loose nothing while gaining extra functionality. Whats not to like?
PS: I use a Logitech MX500 [logitech.com], and its awesome. Two thumbs up (just beware of Logitech's drivers
Re:No wheels? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:No wheels? (Score:3, Interesting)
Link [teflon.com]
It's feels like you're on a sheet of ice, well, without the coldness. I've had one scotch taped to my desk for several years now, and it's just now needing replacement. Using a regular mousepad feels like slogging through mud compared to the Teflon Sheets.
Re:No wheels? (Score:2)
Re:No wheels? (Score:2)
I have purchased a Happy Hacking Keyboard to go with the Mouseman and have had many fewer cases of RSI flareups. (Wouldn't be much help to anyone not living in vi all day!
The Mou
Re:No wheels? (Score:2)
Now as to why I need it... My reason, is I am a gam
Re:No wheels? (Score:2)
Agreed 100%... I'd have no problem with a wheel mouse if the wheel was at least 50-60% wider...
Not google, but froogle (Score:4, Informative)
Search: large 3 button mouse
Plenty to choose from.
Re:Not google, but froogle (Score:4, Informative)
WTF (Score:3, Insightful)
Looks like it's a slow news week. Isn't there a SCO story to post or something?
Third Button vs Pinkie Finger. (Score:2)
IBM -- I have a 3rd Button, and a Scroll*Point* (Score:5, Interesting)
360 Degree scrolling is very useful.
Costanza (Score:5, Funny)
eschasi asks: "eschasi recently got a new job..."
George is getting upset!
Gamers have known about this for ages (Score:2)
Switched over to a 3 button Logitech mouse ("the claw"). It was awesome for fraggin.
Logitech's 4 button wasn't as good.
Logitech's 5 button (thumb + wheel) was alright.
Logitech's MX700 (8 button) rocks.
Re:Gamers have known about this for ages (Score:2)
Here you go (Score:5, Informative)
Don't always just look on the shelf, ask somebody.
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Perfit: Quite possibly the perfect 3-button mouse (Score:3, Informative)
At first I used to be a fan of Logitech, SGI and Sun's 3-button mice, but now I don't leave home without a Contour Perfit Mouse [contourdesign.com]. It's 3-button, and there are not only left and right handed versions, but multiple sizes for each. It melds into your hand, so you only have to inch forward a bit of muscle in each finger to press a button. Very nice and ergonomic.
I'm dying to try out their new optical mice myself. They were pretty slow to the game there, to be sure. I do like where they've put the scroll button for those.
Long live the *real* middle button.
Re:Perfit: Quite possibly the perfect 3-button mou (Score:2)
"With a name like 'Painful Rectal Itch' it's gotta be good!"
Emulation (Score:2)
Maybe it's not too late to re-program your mouse hand.
Miscrosoft's (Score:2)
Re:Miscrosoft's (Score:2)
Re:Miscrosoft's (Score:2)
Re:Miscrosoft's (Score:2)
Can anyone point to instructions on getting the rest of these buttons to work in XFree86? I've got my scrollwheel and middle button working, but I've not had any luck with the two side buttons.
What I want (Score:2)
Re:What I want (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What I want (Score:2)
However I rarely use those buttons as the Logitech Trackman Marble FX is so easy to use and in addition provides scrolling both vertically a
Re:What I want (Score:2)
Focus on 3rd PERSON, not 3rd button! (Score:2)
quakeslut, for one, hopes that the use of 3rd person is more dead the the 3 button mouse!
"logitech mouseman wheel" (Score:2)
this mouse is logitech model # M-CW47 if it matters.
Re:"logitech mouseman wheel" (Score:2)
Thumb button (Score:2)
Today when I use the mouse I keep my thumb on the additional button and index finger on the wheel, occasionally moving it to right or left button. I can't imagine any other way of working with mouse anymore.
Robert
obsolete hardware and lame question (Score:2)
So, you are basically asking why you are no longer able to buy obsolete hardware (3 button mouse)? Especially considering the fact, that for the same price, you get a mouse which offers the exact same functionality (3 buttons) even more, it offers a scroll wheel (i.e. 5 buttons).
Basically you are wondering why you get more for the same price, because this is what it is: even though you are off
Maya... (Score:3, Interesting)
To this day, the Win and Mac ports still rely on the middle mouse button. (ob one-button-Mac jokes commence...)
Any workstation I've worked on, I've been able to map the scroll-wheel-click to middle mouse button features -- no matter the platform.
An aside: Maya has hands-down the best interface I've ever seen for controlling a 3D camera in a window. It relies on the alt-key and all three mouse buttons that you gesture-click. Very, very fast precise and intuitive.
I'd be interested to try something like that with the new MS mice that scroll up down and sideways.
My current favorite Maya/Comfy scroll click mice (many don't feel good) of late are the Logitech MX series and the Click! series corded opticals (for a few reasons -- ie corded vs. wireless for single-pixel precision, more Mac-like weight, clicker 'feels' right as a MMSB).
Hope this helps
Maya! (Score:2)
The optical ones don't seem to exist at all (Score:2)
I don't like the scrolly-wheel clicks because the springs are usually quite tight (to prevent accidental clicking when scrolling, presumably). Generally I don't have a need for a scrolly wheel because I use the keyboard most of the time and PgUp/PgDn/cursor keys work do the grunt work of my scrolling requirements, and I find the scroll bars usually more accurate than the sc
Re:The optical ones don't seem to exist at all (Score:2)
Create a stock (Score:2)
When I realized that 3-button mice will get rarer, and that many people take a scroll wheel as an excuse for a real button, I bought 7 Logitech Pilot Mice. They'll serve for a while.
If PS/2 will not be available any more, I'll need an USB adapter; but I think they will be available.
SGI 3-button mice (Score:2)
they still sell them.. (Score:2)
however, not in optical form.
not that i miss them tho, the wheel is of more use.
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Re:they still sell them.. (Score:2)
MX-500 (Score:2, Interesting)
When my trusty Microsoft mouse died on m
Dude, get the scroll mouse (Score:2)
Dude, get the scroll mouse. You'll get used to it. And, as other respondants have readily pointed out, the wheel gives extra functionality in a single movement, rather than a keypress+middle button event. For example, you can transverse your web browser's (mozilla's) history using just the middle button, rather t
Re:Dude, get the scroll mouse (Score:2)
Actually I own a Belkin USB 3-button mouse, but its size is a bit smaller than even the Logitech PS/2.
Scroll wheel makes it easy to find the middle (Score:2)
I love scroll wheels, personally (Score:2)
CADD work often requires a 3-button mouse (Score:2, Informative)
I actually work at a large corporation where this is the case for many clients of mine, and I've had a lot of trouble finding a simple 3-button mouse for them.
We source our PC's from Dell, and they have 0 3-button mice on their website, and my sales representative could only find 1 that they would resell to us.
I'll agree with the author that this
Masquerading??? (Score:2)
No offense, but why would I want a mouse without a scroll-wheel??? KDE supports the scroll-wheel. I assume Gnome does (or will in the future).
Re:Masquerading??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Logitech Wingman Gaming Mouse (Score:2)
Good size, very comfortable, no need to clean it very often. Not one glitch in four years.
jonathan
Re:Logitech Wingman Gaming Mouse (Score:2)
I used to use them for gaming (Quake 3 mostly), but now I switched to a logitech usb dual optical mouse w/scroll wheel, it glides more reliably, without needing cleaning every week or so, plus it's a bit more comfy, it's a handful at first, but it really first just right. I guess I was just used to the tiny mice before.
Kinda strange, logitech doens't list any of
Did you search the web? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:memorex (Score:2)
We are very glad that the first person plural was not used upon us.
Re:wtf? (Score:3, Interesting)
Daniel
Re:For God's sake (Score:3, Funny)
If you're girlfriend is an internet server (plausible), that can be arranged.