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Has CD Quality Control Slipped? 80

Posted by Cliff from the has-anyone-else-noticed-this dept.
morris57 asks: "In the past few months, I have had at least 3 brand new compact disks or DVDs not work right out of the box. I don't mean that any sort of copy protection on the disk prevented me from using them; they were simply defective disks. I was able to exchange my DVD of 'The Matrix Reloaded' at Best Buy for a working copy, but some disks I got for Christmas I just recently opened and they are either unplayable or garbled. It is not a hardware issue, either. I've tested the disks in several types of players: new, old, component, computers, etc... It seems to me to make a very good case for downloadable media files, although I know these tracks are not available on iTunes or audible.com. So, I guess I'm wondering if the Slashdot community has noticed a decline in quality control of CDs/DVDs. What can be done (individually or communally) to not get burned by defective disks?" The solution for this particular type of problem boils down to simple consumerism. If you get a defective product, return it! If manufactures notice a high rate of return (and they should), they'll hopefully address the quality of what they ship. Has anyone else noticed an increase of non-working DVDs or CDs?
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Has CD Quality Control Slipped? More

Has CD Quality Control Slipped?

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  • I haven't noticed much (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DetrimentalFiend ( 233753 ) * on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:09PM (#7915275)
    I've only had one new DVD ever have any issues. That one DVD would freeze up at one spot, but it only did it on one DVD player. I suppose that it's probable that manufacturers are taking more and more shortcuts, but I haven't been affected by it yet. I hope it stays that way too.
    • This happened to me with my Predator 2 DVD on my Powerbook. The dumb thing is that I exchanged the DVD, and the new one had the exact same problem at the exact same spot on the DVD.

      I'm not sure if that's a problem with the DVDs, or if my DVD player is extra sensitive to the defects, or who knows what. I've never had any other problems with any DVDs before.
    • > but I haven't been affected by it yet. I hope it stays that
      > way too.

      I have had one defective one which was in 1989, it's fine for me too.

      > What can be done (individually or communally) to not get
      > burned by defective disks?"

      Oh that IS the RIAA/MPAA at work. See they have disks now that are getting us for burning them, those disks burn back!

      mac desktops, dare to be nude [scrounger.ath.cx]

  • They don't care (Score:4, Funny)

    by !the!bad!fish! ( 704825 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:10PM (#7915291) Homepage
    If manufactures notice a high rate of return (and they should), they'll hopefully address the quality of what they ship.
    Has any one noticed the record industry showing any sign of caring about what it's customers think?

    • Re:They don't care (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:53PM (#7915750) Journal
      Technically, this would not be "the recording industry" but "the manufacturing industry". I don't know but I'd bet significant money that physical CD production is outsourced by all RIAA members; it makes zero economic sense for them to do otherwise.

      If returns become a problem, be assured that that information will wend its way back to the CD manufacturers eventually, with direct economic consequences.

      Direct economic consequences is why this occurs; I posted about this on my weblog in relation to a similar Ask Slashdot regarding hardware [jerf.org]. The CD manufacturers will be using the exact same statistical techniques I mention in my post on CDs that electronics manufacturers use on their stuff.
      About two years ago [now more like three], I took Statistics in college. The second most interesting part of the course was the industrial manufacturing focus, specifically quality control.


      Even more specifically, reliable ways to determine how much quality you can take out of the product and still meet some specification with some good probability....

      On the other hand, these are the techniques used to reliably manufacture a device that will fail in 2 years, plus or minus 3 months, with 50% probability. This is the source of the flood of cheap garbage that has really only been gaining steam in the past four or five years; yes, in the 80s and 90s people were decrying "consumerism" but it's gotten several times worse as some of these techniques become refined and universally applied.

      The upshot of all of this is yes, the quality of consumer electronics has been steadily declining for a decade or two now, along with everything else that comes off the factory floor, and the better the statistical techniques get, the closer to the consumer rejection threshold this stuff will get.
      (New emphasis; as I'm quoting myself "emphasis mine" doesn't make too much sense ;-) )
      • Once that sort of 'quality control' initiatve has been implmented, it's a 'failure' by engineering if the product lasts longer than warranty. I witnessed the period when that sort of MBA-type management slipped into many companies in the late 80's.

        I remember when I worked at a medical device company where I sat across the room from the lone repair tech. The company made a product that came with a 'lifetime warranty' and they hadn't excluded the battery (rechargable 9v Ni-Cd) from the warranty. He fixed
        • good example is the itunes battery issues that apple has been forced to deal with engineered failure at work ;]
          • To give Apple a certain amount of credit, removable battery compartments are one of the most expensive parts of product design.

            You have to make them dummy-proof so the customer can't screw up the contacts and/or damage it using anything that s/he can be exected to try.

            You have to design them to fit any battery you're going to specify as approved. This puts in you in 'squeeze' between Marketing, who want any battery available anywhere to be specified as usable, and your design costs and margin for accepta
      • "...to determine how much quality you can take out of the product..."

        "Nadir--where the quality comes out before the name goes on."

  • Sadly, its not the disc (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hardwyred ( 71704 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:12PM (#7915302) Homepage
    Sorry man, it's not the disc. Back Street Boys really do sound like that, no matter how many times you return it.

  • Remember folks... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Trolling4Columbine ( 679367 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:14PM (#7915324)
    ...this is quality control. That latest Britney Spears CD sounds bad for reasons beyond the scope of QA.

  • Stating the Obvious (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Acidic_Diarrhea ( 641390 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:16PM (#7915350) Homepage Journal
    "The solution for this particular type of problem boils down to simple consumerism. If you get a defective product, return it!"
    Does this really need to be said? I mean really, who gets a DVD or CD that doesn't work and simply keeps it?
    • Unfortunately a lot of stores won't accept opened CDs or DVDs; afterall, it's easy for someone to buy a CD or DVD, burn a copy of it, and then return it the next day claiming it was defective.

      It's a shitty policy, but this is a perfect example of how a few bad apples can ruin it for everyone.

      • Assuming you wanted the DVD or CD in the first place, wouldn't you want to exchange it for a working copy?

        If that copy also does not work on my player, store policy or not, I'll get my money back.

        • Well a "return" is much different from an "exchange", so let's be sure we're talking about the same thing.

          I'd bet an exchange would go much more smoothly, but just try and get your money back on a return...

          • Well, any "exchange" includes a "return" but not every "return" includes an "exchange", if we are defining an exchange to be the reception of the same DVD or CD. When I exchange a product, I return the defective product to the store and receive a new copy of the product.

            And if all they want to give me is store credit after two defective copies, I will immediately be placing calls to the Better Business Bureau and never shop there again. I can usually create enough of a stink before leaving the store that I

      • And in the UK it is a policy that would be illegal under the terms of the 'Sale of Goods Act 1979' [jus.uio.no] (summary [netfirms.com]) . Subsequent ammendments [hmso.gov.uk] would mean that it would also fall foul of EU Leglislation.

        I expect you are wrong anyway, I can see them attempting to not give you a refund but refusing to swap it for the exact same title and you having no recourse seems unlikely, even in the land of the free.
        • Yeah. I've not known of a place that won't allow a return for the same item on an opened DVD or CD, though it is very common to not accept a return for a full-on refund or even store credit. But anywhere will allow you to bring it back for a new one.

      • Re:Stating the Obvious (Score:3, Informative)

        by GoRK ( 10018 )
        I have never been to a store that would not exchange an opened copy of a CD or DVD for the exact same item if it was defective and included all the original materials.
      • It's a shitty policy, but this is a perfect example of how a few bad apples can ruin it for everyone.

        No, it's not. Let's make this clear: the RIAA et al. are not afraid of people. They are afraid of technology. If they had their way, they would make a technology illegal even if it were impossible for more than one person in the world to use.

        What is is a perfect example of how the realization by many corporations that they can piss a lot of customers off while still making money has changed the way t
      • But you can exchange it for another copy, and the store is left with a useless plastic disc. And I'm sure they'll let the manufacturer know about that.
      • For all of those who say that they will exchange it, Best Buy wouldn't exchange one for me that was defective. I ended up burning a copy.
    • Of course, that is the obvious immediate solution for an individual. It may be tricky for the other non working disks that I still have to return, as they are part of box sets that Best Buy does not carry in stock.

      I'm more interested in what can be done as a class of consumers that is potentially purchasing shoddily pressed disks. Is anyone keeping track of the rate of failure? I know that my anecdotal evidence means nothing, but if 10% of the Charlie Christian box sets are duds, I think there might be
      • The problem in finding that evidence is that who can gather it? Are you going to trust the retail outlets for accurate numbers or the manufacturers? I doubt they'll even give you numbers. And if you set up some sort of website where anyone who purchased a defective disc would enter it, you're going to either hit low as many people who have gotten defective discs don't know about the site or you're going to get floods of defective notices from competiting companies that want to make the competition look bad.
    • Actually, I bought the Pearl Jam: Live At The Garden DVD and while disc 1 works fine, disc 2 won't give me any audio at all when I play it from my computer. It works fine when I play it with another dvd player, and I can even rip the disc and watch it ala Xvid (which I did), but for some reason the computer just won't play the audio tracks on disc 2. I know I'm perfectly able to exchange it for another copy at the store, but I'm significantly less motivated to do so when I can just watch the rip without a

  • Yup (Score:2)

    by Finni ( 23475 )
    Although the recordings may not be "recent", it did recently happen to me. I bought a copy of The Dismemberment Plan, "Emergency and I." Got home, and it seemed wrong. All the artwork in the insert and on the CD itself were correct, but their next album, "Change", was what was actually recorded on the media.

    Returned it for the other copy of "Emergency" in-store, and asked to listen to it before I left. Sure enough, it was also actually "Change." What a pisser.

    • Actually had an interesting problem with a Playstation game like this:

      Bought Strider2, came with a free copy of the original Strider (which is why I bought it anyways -- always a sucker for nostalgia.)

      Put Strider in the PS2, plays #2???? Put the copy that was silkscreened Strider2, was Strider?

      No real big deal (since I had both), but would be a pain if I tried to buy it individually....

  • Falling life of CDRs (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:20PM (#7915386)
    I bought a 100 pack of Philips CDRs and I thought it was a freak case - perhaps it is not.

    Almost 30-40% of the disks scratched easily, and didn't work after 2 months of safe storage. They seemed to develop scratches for no reason at all.

    I have read that the normal life expectancy of a CDR is about 2 years, in my case, the life expectancy seems to be 3 months.

    Note: Other brand CDRs bought more than 2 years ago record just fine, and have survived for 2 years or more.

    Has anyone else seen this trend? Cost cutting perhaps? I know that CDR manufacturers are experimenting with cheaper variants of pthalocyanine to get more bang for the buck.

    • Re:Falling life of CDRs (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Recordable media problems have been covered multiple times. Short summary is that the polymer protection layers are too thin, non-existant, unprotected aluminum burn media, aluminum / adhesive / chemical / bacterial / fungual / sharpie / light / reactions. Buy good CDRs and they will last long (archival type long). Use cheap shit for product delivery and disposable music mixes. Sony says their CDR lifespan is 70 years. Anything less than 10 in a preserved environment is unacceptable (but not really mea
    • Man, CDR's are so unreliable, its sad! Especially those ones that have no label on the front. And now they cost almost as much per MB as a hard drive (in Canada)... guess which one im gonna buy. Ive found that those CD cases that hold 50 CD's, scratch CDR's enough to render them useless after a few months. Mayby this is a ploy by the RIAA to stop people from buying burnable CD's!
    • I bought a 50-pack of Sony disks. The first 5 i tried (4 off the top and 1 out of the middle) would not record. After a little bit of arguing, the store refunded my money.

  • Holiday Season (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Merlin42 ( 148225 ) * on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:20PM (#7915390)
    I haven't noticed it with [C|DV]D's personally, but I have had problems in the past with electronics I purchased around the holiday season. My guess is that on occasion a manufacturer will push manufacturing beyond what QA can handle in order to meet demand at the end of the year. The only choice is to return, of course at this time of year the manufacturers expect high return rates so it might not make a difference.
  • The video portion stopped while the audio continued. Took it back to the store where I got it, the manager took it back to the back room and I told him where it happened. He repeated the problem on his machine. Then he got a fresh one off the shelf. Same problem. He gave me credit for the disk and I had to take a different title.

    So, is quality control slipping? I don't think so, as this was 3 years ago.

  • New DVD Rentals (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GeckoX ( 259575 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:26PM (#7915442)
    I've deffinately noticed HUGE issues with DVD's.
    I rent probably 3 new DVD's a week on average, and without fail, one a week won't play in either of my players (Component and PC).
    Brand new discs, very often the very first use of the disc no less.

    I've also noticed that looking at the edges of the disc, that they are way less than perfect. Usually the layers don't line up very well, there's usually a very obvious seam, sometimes even with adhesive squeezed out the edge. I'm thinking super cheap-assed production.

    I haven't noticed similar problems with CD's, although I've almost entirely stopped purchasing them because they're almost all NOT cd's anymore.
  • I also had a problem with Disc 2 of the Matrix Reloaded DVD set. The DVD froze in the same place before the main menu every time i put it in my home theater DVD player, but worked flawlessly in my DVD drive on my desktop.

    Has anyone else had this trouble with DVD's not playing on a set-top device, but firing up on a DVD drive of a computer?

    • Re:Also had Matrix Reloaded DVD issues... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I had a problem with the first matrix DVD. Towards the beginning the girl jumps up in the air and then it freezes. The odd thing is, the sound and the girl keep moving. Luckily it re-synchs itself, but it happens more than once.
    • i've got problems with both the holy grail and meaning of life dvds on my set top boxes and the PS2 but they work fine on my PC. With the holy grail, the subtitles keep popping up and with the meaning of life the video is distorted.

      Star Trek Nemesis caused one DVD player to break and constantly freezes on another but plays fine on my PC.

  • yup. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Garfunkel ( 3569 )
    My parents got the Indiana Jones trilogy for Christmas. I tried to play Raiders on my laptop DVD player with mplayer, and it froze up after about 1-2 minutes while it was displaying the "Raiders of the Lost Ark" title. I thought it was odd and tried again. Died in the same spot. Odd. Put in my parents' console DVD player and at the same spot everything went blue, sound quit and then after about 2-3 seconds it kept going. Definitely a defective disc. Couldn't convince them to take it back though, they

  • Player (Score:2)

    by tsa ( 15680 )
    Maybe your CD/DVD player is getting cranky?

  • I thought it was just videotapes... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I noticed this with recent purchases of videotapes. The older ones worked fine, so doesn't seem to be the fault of any of my machines. I wondered whether the quality deterioration was intentional to push people towards digital, or just not caring anymore (people left for digital, not the same profit/volume in videotapes). So, I'm actually glad to hear this quality deterioration isn't limited to just tapes.

    Hey, maybe it's a conspiracy so people will buy downloaded services :)

  • A different kind of DVD failure (Score:4, Funny)

    by ralphb ( 15998 ) * on Thursday January 08, 2004 @12:54PM (#7915768) Homepage
    I recently bought a copy of K-19 [imdb.com]. I went to play it the other day, and the disk inside was actually of K-9 [imdb.com].
    Yikes, talk about your shock to the system! The store [knappvideo.com] made it right without the slightest fuss.
  • I back up my Anti-RIAA/MPAA opinion in that I don't buy CD's or DVD's. I have two DVD players that were given to me to try and fix. The are still broke. I occasionaly do go see a movie, but I don't break the bank trying to be a media whore.
  • When the extended edition of Two Towers came out, I discovered that the second disc (part two of the movie) was scratched and wouldn't play. When I returned it to the store, the salesperson noted that an unusually large number of people had the same problem with that particular product.
    • My Fellowship of the Ring extended edition had problems too... Just when it got to the part with Galadriel (sp?), the picture would freeze, the player would make funky noises for a while, and then it would stop. If I skipped to the next chapter, I could watch the rest of the moovie fine. Took it back to Best Buy for an exchange, and got one that works. It was an almost hassle free exchange -- Best Buy I guess wanted to watch it or something to confirm... so I had to wait a couple minutes while they put
    • Yeah, on ours the playback froze around when Frodo falls into the Dead Marshes, it worked OK after closing MPC and starting it again.

  • It may be more than manufacturing flaws (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Go Aptran ( 634129 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @01:23PM (#7916164)
    This may be my imagination, but CDs that I bought in the early 90s felt a little heavier and appeared a little bit thicker than CDs that I buy now.

    I noticed the same thing with videotapes and floppy discs.

    In the case of CDs and DVDs, I think that cheaper material translates into higher flaw and failure rates... as the data has less plastic to protect the data from wear and tear.

    Has it occurred to anyone that the machines that use the media also use cheaper parts as well? Portable CD players that I've used in the recent past seem less forgiving of scratches than the big clunker that I owned ten years ago.

    • >This may be my imagination, but CDs that I bought in the early 90s felt a little heavier and appeared a little bit thicker than CDs that I buy now.

      That's not imagination. I once attended a talk by someone from Philips Research. Accordig to the CD specs, the plastic layer on the playing side of the disc should be 1.0 mm thick with a tolerance of +/- 0.1 mm (I don't recall the exact numbers). According to him, after a few years, all CDs on the market had 0.905-mm-thick plastic layers because it was pos

  • I received one of those disks with little brushes attaced to the underside free with my dvd player. So far it has always resolved these little glitches for me.
  • My mom (silly mommy!) got me Civ II: Test of Time for my birthday. I figured I'd go poke my way through it. The case contained the CD and a note saying that the manual was available online [pvpsoft.com]. Unfortunately, the link is broken [bigipub.com] and there's no sign of contact information, in sight or otherwise. =b
  • I have had several DVD issues from the very beginning. It doesn't seem to have gotten *worse*, maybe better in my experience. The only DVD I have had problems with lately was Bruce Almighty. You could see the damage on the disc. Not a scratch, but an oval shaped damage within the layers themselves. I have also had a few DVDs that partially wouldn't work in Apex players that work absolutely fine in my Sony DVD players.
  • I picked up a bunch of generic 100 packs (yeah I know) and they won't play in the car. previously the same generic brand worked just fine.

    This reminds me in the waning days of the floppy. The quality was piss poor, but I have some old "heyday" sony floppys that are still running strong.

  • Cheaper CDs? (Score:3, Informative)

    by jeffkjo1 ( 663413 ) on Thursday January 08, 2004 @02:43PM (#7917494) Homepage
    I feel like this has been occuring, but I don't know enough about the technical specs of how cd's are made to prove it.

    However, in the past 6 months, I have purchased several CDs, and have had to reburn (checks disc box) 4 of them. I've also reburned several of my recent CD-R mix cd's. I don't know why, but after only a few weeks of use, these CD's have begun to skip. I have many CD's that are pushing 10 years old and are still going strong (which is amazing, considering some of them look like I scraped them across pavement.)

    For some reason CD's I've purchased recently aren't holding up as well. If anything, I'm treating my CD's better than I used to, I just don't get it.

    Are they making the actual data layers out of thinner/cheaper metals? Whats going on? I can't be the only person that's noticed this.
  • "It's... uh... Piracy! That's it! Because of our losses to piracy... uh... we had to cut back QC! This is not, repeat, not a misguided attempt to blackmail pirates by punishing the paying customer."

    "Won't that just encourage people to download the work instead of going to the store, possibly several times, and using up time and money?"

    "No it won't. Truth is lies! Love is hate! War is peace! 2 + 2 = 4!"

    "Actually, it seems to me that it will..."

    "You must be one of those evil FILESHARERS, aren't you?!"
  • When you burn your own you dont have that issue :p

  • empty (Score:1)

    by kwoff ( 516741 )
    I bought a DVD recently, and the box was empty. I shit you not. Fortunately the store believed me and gave me another one.
  • Once, I had bought the 2nd season of Lexx, and 4 out of 5 discs were totally screwd. Something about the way they pressed them made them corrupt and totally unusable; there were tiny bubbles in the enamel layer that were interferring w/ the diffraction grating (where the data is located).

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