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Carpal Tunnel- Laptops Better than Ergo Keyboards? 90

Posted by Cliff from the mitigating-the-pain dept.
An anonymous reader asks: "I have chronic tendonitis in my wrists (I think of it as incipient carpal tunnel syndrome). I shied away from laptops for years, thinking the cramped keyboard would aggravate my condition. About six months ago, circumstances forced me to break down and get a laptop. I didn't have any major problems with the keyboard - it's only now that I've switched back to a wireless mouse and an ergonomic keyboard that I've started to have any pain. Amazingly, the laptop is more comfortable for me to use long term. Has anyone had a similar experience? What's the explanation? Is it the shorter stroke depth on the keys? The fact that you can put your hands closer together than on a standard keyboard?"
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Carpal Tunnel- Laptops Better than Ergo Keyboards? More

Carpal Tunnel- Laptops Better than Ergo Keyboards?

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  • You are not alone (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Gregg Alan ( 8487 )
    I don't know the why so I can't really help you, but I have noticed the same thing.
    Well, let me take a stab... perhaps we have a tendency to position (and reposition) the laptop however it feels most comfortable. Maybe it's just giving better variety?
    • I'd have to agree. Was having problems w/ plain ghetto Keytronic 104 + M$ IntelliMou$e Explorer^H^H^Hiter. Now ive been fiddling w/ a G4 PowerBook, seems to be better.
    • Perhaps it is the extra height above the desk, so the positioning of the keyboard is better in reloation to the rest of your body. Perhaps also then posture is better too.
    • What mouse were you using with the laptop?

      That may be the main difference - with the laptop you may not even be using a mouse.

      May help if you get a bigger and flatter mouse which doesn't make you scrunch your hand together to hold. YMMV.

      Or use a trackball or some other pointing device -that'll probably help more.
    • I don't have carpal tunnel, but I've got a guess as to why laptop keyboards aren't as bad.

      I've got both a desktop and a laptop here at my desk, and comparing my typing positions for the two, my wrists are much straighter when typing on the laptop than on the desktop, because the laptop keyboard is a good foot farther from me than the desktop keyboard.
  • I feel the same way. Could it be that you don't have to press the keys as hard? or maybe the tightness means you don't have to move your fingers as far. Either way I like it.
  • I use a normal keyboard at work.
    A kinesis advantage at the home office.
    and an old dell inspiron 4000 on the couch and cafe

    and the winner is the damn dell. I think it has something to due with no moving my wrists when using the laptop. The kinesis does come in a close second, probably for the same reason.
    • Read your literature.

      Neither study resolves the issue one way or the other.

    • Fits my own experience. I notice a comfort difference with different keyboards, but it's the mouse that really trashes my wrists and elbows. I use trackballs instead. The Kensington Turbo Mouse optical USB trackball is my current favorite.

      I certainly don't think that key pressure and travel distance is the issue, as the best keyboard I've found is the classic IBM sprung steel mechanism which has an abundance of both. Still, I'm considering trying a zero force Fingerworks keyboard...

  • Wrist rest? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Crowhead ( 577505 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @02:11AM (#8109919)
    Did you use a wrist wrest with the ergonomic keyboard? Lots of laptops have a somewhat built in wrist rest (any that have a touch pad, I guess.) I think having your wrists balanced and at the level of the keys makes a big difference. It relieves a lot of the stress on your wrists.

    • Re:Wrist rest? (Score:3, Informative)

      by klui ( 457783 )
      You should use wrist rests only when you're not typing. You have nerves and blood vessels very close to the skin on your wrists and they should not be compressed while you're typing.
      • funny that.. my hands get REALLY tired really fast if I can't rest them on the table when typing.

        though I don't use wrist rests, rather i just stick the keyboard far enough(20-30cm) on the table. this makes using those keyboard platforms that go under table a bitch though, and they always seem to not be rigid enough for my hands anyways. I couldn't possibly imagine sitting on a computer for many hours if I couldn't rest my hands(the way I like) while typing.

  • ct exp (Score:3, Interesting)

    by drDugan ( 219551 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @02:11AM (#8109920) Homepage
    my wife has ct so bad while pregnant with our first kids that she eventally needed surgery.

    several months she wore braces at night with a covered metal plate that ran the length of her forearm (strapped on) and the plate ran up over the underside of her wrist into her palm. The plate was bent over at the wrist to push her hands backward (like you are stopping a car with a hand signal). The device also tended to rotate the hands laterally (away from center line). The position gave her significant relief from ct symptoms.

    the orientation of your wrists while typing on a laptop is typically very different than typing on a normal keyboard. I'd bet that the angle in your wrists while typing in the laptop is such that it afford more room in your carpal tunnel for the tendons and they don't rub around so much.

  • Yay for laptops (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Shazow ( 263582 ) <andrey.petrovNO@SPAMshazow.net> on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @02:12AM (#8109921) Homepage
    I, too, have experienced the same thing. I've no real knowledge as to why this is, but I would imagine that since the keys are closer together, we place our hands closer together, making them go in a more natural diagonal position (/ \) instead of just being straight (| |) like in normal spaced keyboards. Also, since the screen is attached to the laptop, the back and neck are in a better position which overall relaxes the arm muscles.

    Just my random shot at it. Anyways, if it aint broke, don't fix it! I can barely spend a good day's work on my desktop anymore, after using my laptop religiously for almost half a year. Not necessarily due to discomfort in the wrist or anything, but just fatigue in general. /me hugs his laptop.

    - shazow

    • Re:Yay for laptops (Score:3, Informative)

      by Cato ( 8296 )
      It may just be that you are in a more relaxed posture when using a laptop. Some serious misconceptions here, though:

      - placing your hands closer together does NOT help since it increases muscle tension to hold this unnatural position - one of the best keyboards out there is the Maltron, which separates the hands by at least 6-8 inches.

      - having the screen attached to the laptop is also a bad idea since the neck must be held in a bent position

      The first thing I advise people who have RSI (who typically use
    • For me the thing was the touchpad. Using a touchpad instead instead of a mouse made me forget I had CT until I switched back to a desktop machine again.
    • Are you sure your hands are closer together when using a laptop? Most laptops today (excluding the mini-laptops) seem to have standard-size key spacing.
  • Here is why you dont have any problems. It is cause with a laptop, you usually dont keep your hands in that position that long cause it really is uncomfortable. A office keyboard, ergonomic keyboard, or fancy keyboards have that bottom where you rest your hands on to type, making you more prone to type more while still keeping your hands in the same position. With a laptop, you are usually cramped, and if you pay attention, your hands are not always in the same spot.
  • For me, there is no single best solution..instead I rely on variation, so that a single posture doesn't stress my wrists too much.

    In addition, I believe the way you sit, and especially the way you rest your elbows/underarms means more than the specific keyboard/mouse solution.

  • It's all in the wrists (Score:3, Interesting)

    by crmartin ( 98227 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @02:27AM (#8110010)
    At least for me, the problem went away as soon as I learned to discipline myself to no rest my wrists on the keyboard; keep your hands up and flat and you shouldn't have any troubles.

    Most likely with the laptop you're holding it in a position that takes the compression off your wrists.
  • While I don't have CT, I did suffer from this annoying wrist and forearm pain from time to time. I've found that a regular workout program that includes forearm curls and streching/flexing have cut down my pain to just about none.

    Try the wrist curls sometime... Chicks dig my Popeye forearms now.
  • I have only owned a laptop for years, including all of college, and I have to agree. The primary reason, I think, is that I'm not straining to keep my fingers up. Most keyboards slope towards you; you have to pull your fingers and hands back just to keep from pushing a key. This is particularly true with ergonomic keyboards. Laptops are flat, plus have a hand wrest. (On occasion I've propped up the near side of my laptop to relieve strain even more.)

    So:
    Flat.
    Built-in hand rest at the height of the keytops.
    N
    • Most keyboards slope towards you; you have to pull your fingers and hands back just to keep from pushing a key.

      Most keyboards have small foldable feet to decrease the sloping angle. For some reason, most people believe that it is more comfortable with the feet extended, but fold the damn things down if you have wrist problems! Get a wrist pad to decrease the angle even further, especially if you have the bad habit of supporting your wrists on the table. (I can't type without either resting my wrists on th

  • I've experienced the same thing. I have a IBM Thinkpad and I can type on it for much longer than on a regular keyboard before I experience any discomfort or pain. The reason, for me at least, is because the keys are flat. On any regular keyboard that I use each row of keys is positioned higher than the row in front of it. That forces my hand to sit up higher than my arm. Think of it as if you were holding up your hand to tell someone to stop. It's harder to put and keep your hand in that position than
    • Inclined keyboards are deadly. Those stupid legs on the back were put there for people used to mechanical typewriters, which had to incline the keys for mechanical reasons. Get rid of the legs. If the keyboard isn't flat after that, get a new one. Every ergonomics guide I've seen agrees on at least this one issue...

  • Solve your CT - play guitar (Score:3, Interesting)

    by JabberWokky ( 19442 ) <slashdot.com@timewarp.org> on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @03:17AM (#8110250) Homepage Journal
    As long a we're looking for ancedotal evidence, I'll toss in that I credit my not having any wrist problems whatsoever (despite regular long hours typing) with the fact that I very regularly play guitar as well. Or, to any musicians out there, I have no wrist problems from playing guitar because I spend many hours typing.

    They are both horribly prone to problems, but they are so vastly different in how you hold your hands and what muscles you use, I'm thinking that they provide a nice balance.

    Either that or next week my arms will explode.

    --
    Evan

    • I'll just add mine to your anecdotal evidence. I have experienced roughly the same thing, although somewhat more obviously. I've played guitar for about 10 years. I had never had wrist troubles, until I stopped playing for 2 years. During those 2 years my wrists started hurting more and more. 6 months ago I started playing every day again, and today I don't have any wrist pain. It's not proof, by any means, but I do believe that there is something to it.

  • "tendonitis" doesn't sound cool enough, eh? (Score:4, Funny)

    by product byproduct ( 628318 ) on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @04:12AM (#8110463)
    I have chronic tendonitis in my wrists (I think of it as incipient carpal tunnel syndrome)

    anonymous reader: My wrists hurt!
    doctor: Let me see...
    anonymous reader: (I hope it's carpal tunnel syndrome, I hope it's carpal tunnel syndrome...)
    doctor: You have chronic tendonitis in your wrists.
    anonymous reader: Is this the same as CARPAL TUNNEL SYNDROME?
    doctor: No.
    anonymous reader: Can I think of it as INCIPIENT carpal tunnel syndrome?
    doctor: Not really.
    anonymous reader: But it's possible?
    doctor: Not in my opinion.
    anonymous reader: But everyone is entitled to their opinion, right?
    doctor: That's what they say.
    anonymous reader: Ok thanks doc!!

  • IANAD, but here is my opinion:
    Since permanet, unvarying strain of the wrist is the (major) cause of CS, an alternation of the position of the wrists could be a relieve, since other, until now unharmed, parts of the sinews are under demand (demanded?), or at least the same parts of the sinew experience a different demand.

    And there is another aspect:
    If you type on a normal keyboard, the wrist is often bent (see AA below).
    . . . --m
    ____/ . . nn
    (m is/are the fingers, nn are the keys)

    Since notebook keyboards
  • I always suffered from sore wrists and such on regular keyboards, but I have been using a laptop almost exclusively for a year and a half and I am just dandy.

    It's all in the angle... or at least that's my guess. It seems that most of my hand's weight is actually supported by the elbow-wards part of my forearm. My hand also supports some of the weight, but almost all of it on the lower palm... so my wrist really doesn't support my weight at all. And with the palm and elbow-wards forearm being pretty st
  • The most important thing to remember that all these things are extremely personal -- there are so many factors in play, that it hardly makes much sence to expect any guidelines to work for everyone.

    When thinking about the way you sit, it is also very important to think of your entire posture. For instance, what you do with your shoulders can be very important in how your wrists feel. In the case of the OP I could imagine that, when using a laptop, he relaxes his shoulders better, which makes for an entir

  • It's the MOUSE! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cookd ( 72933 ) <[moc.onuj] [ta] [koocsalguod]> on Wednesday January 28, 2004 @05:19AM (#8110762) Journal
    Ok, I honestly can't diagnose your situation. But in my experience, the mouse has made FAR MORE difference than the keyboard in causing me trouble. Try switching to a trackball or a trackpad. It takes a bit to get used to the trackball, and they definitely don't have the precision on a mouse (no FPS for you!), but for most purposes, they're perfectly adequate, and they generally put far less stress on the wrist.

    I never had trouble with my wrists. Ok, occasionally my wrist would hurt from putting all of my weight on it, but that was a skin-deep problem, not a carpel-tunnel or tendonitis problem. Then I got a summer job using Visual Basic. VB takes mouse usage to new heights, and within 2 months I had serious problems. Fancy keyboards, special extra-large mice, wrist braces, etc. didn't help much. I learned to mouse with my left hand, and that helped since I could spread the stress out. Even after I left that job, I had problems with my right wrist.

    Then as I was starting a new job and getting set up with my office equipment, I asked the hardware guy if he had anything that would help with wrist problems. He gave me a "Microsoft Trackball Optical" (some prefer the the "Microsoft Trackball Explorer", so try them both). To make a long story short, over the next 3 months I stopped needing my wrist brace, and over the past 2.5 years, I haven't had any serious trouble. I now have a mouse (any mouse) and a Trackball Optical hooked up to every desktop computer I own. Most of the time, I use the trackball. When I do something where the trackball doesn't work well, I use the mouse.

    Looking back, I've done a little bit of research. It turns out that the Microsoft Intellimouse I was using back then has become famous for causing wrist trouble. When it was designed, they did customer studies to find out what shape people liked best, and people chose the old Microsoft Intellimouse as the most comfortable. That was fine for short-term use, but over long-term use, it turned out to be terrible. The hump at the back forced you to bend your wrist. Newer designs have removed this hump.

    So don't necessarily blame the keyboard! Try a mouse alternative, or at least make sure your current mouse is well designed (if you are using an older Microsoft mouse, get it replaced immediately, and stomp on it before throwing it away so that it won't ever be able to hurt anyone ever again!).

    In addition, get your workstation layout evaluated. Either study up on it yourself, or get somebody who knows about it to evaluate your office for you. Here are a few key points:

    Start with the chair. Your feet should firmly reach the ground. You should sit up straight.

    When sitting up straight, your eyes should be lined up with a point on the top half of your screen. If you tend to slouch (like I do), your eyes should line up with the top of the screen. If you tend to sit up straight, your eyes should line up with a point 1/3 of the way down the screen.

    Your keyboard should be positioned so that when you are in standard typing posture, the part of the arm above the elbow is hanging straight down and the elbow makes a 90 degree bend so that they are parallel to the floor. This should allow you to type with NO VERTICAL BEND in your wrist. The keyboard should be positioned horizontally so that the "6" key lines up with the center of the monitor. Don't line up your keyboard's physical center with the monitor -- line it up so that home row is centered. If you have a split keyboard, this can allow you to type with no bending AT ALL in your wrist. If you have a normal keyboard, your wrists will have a slight bend to one side. That is bad, but acceptable. It isn't acceptable for one wrist to be bent more than the other. And it isn't acceptable for there to be ANY vertical bend.

    The mouse needs to be placed so you can switch from keyboard to mouse without moving your elbow (which is directly beneath your shoulder, remember?). Unfortunately for right-handed people, that put
    • Some desktop keyboards do get rid of the number pad. Since I never use it, this would be an improvement, to allow the mouse closer to the main keys.
    • I definitely agree here.

      I have had to live with RSI since 1997 and the one thing I cannot deal with for a long time is to use a mouse for an extended period of time. Laptops with trackpads are wonderful, and my desktops all have trackballs.

      My keyboard of choice is the discontinued IBM SelectEase, with which I can place the trackball in between its two disjoint halves.
    • And to answer the actual question of why the laptop was better, here are my theories (do self-replies to a +5 post make me a karma whore? not that it matters... got plenty already):
      • The laptop probably had a trackpad instead of a mouse.
      • If you do use a mouse with the laptop, the number pad doesn't get in the way like it does with a desktop.
      • The screen is always centered properly (or very close to properly) with a laptop. With an improperly centered keyboard, the arms, wrists, and hands tend to look like t

    • Re:It's the MOUSE! (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RadarMan ( 648574 )
      I love my trackball, and it has saved my wrists, but like you said it's no good for precision work (like Photoshop). So I'd really love to have BOTH a trackball and regular mouse, simultaneously.

      Has anyone tried connected two pointing devices to Windows or Linux? I don't want to dig under the desk to swap cables when changing tasks.

      • Stick both a mouse (or two mice or whatever) and a trackball into a USB port and it works. Everytime, seamlessly. This has alwys worked too, because many people plug mice into Laptops and both keep on working (the trackpad and the mouse).

      • With any modern windows, multiple mice and controlers work perfectly. Plug the first mouse and keyboard into the ps/2 ports, and USB the rest. Then just grab the one you feel like using at the moment.
    • Amen. I had trouble after years of using a mouse, and I decided to switch to a Kensington track ball; specifically, the Expert Mouse Pro (the kind where the ball is about the size of a pool ball; i.e. 2" diameter). It is a bit awkward to get used to, and it is annoying in some situations (where you have to do a lot of precision point-and-click), but for general desktop, development and navigation use, it is fine. Expect to pay around $70-$90 USD for one of these things.
    • Amen to the above, and let me recommend the Logitech Trackman wheel. No Anti-MS feelings here, they make good hardware, but the wireless version of this logitech device is great! It's a thumb-ball, where you move the ball with your thumb and click with the same fingers you use on your mouse, plus a scroll wheel in a similar-to-mouse position. easy to clean, good an batteries, and pretty accurate.

      I play FPS with them frequently, and I cannot blame my sucking at them on the trackball at all. Accuracy is
    • When I had to go back from a laptop to a desktop machine at work my CT came back after having felt fine for years. Eventually I managed to get a touchpad for desktop use. It really does make a great difference to not use a mouse!
  • When I use my laptop I tend to have it at the right level/distance, having it rest on my lap seems to be the best. Most of the tables I've used (at coffee shops, etc) are just at the right level as well. Also most laptops have a place to rest your hands which isn't too soft or lumpy.

    Now when it comes to desktops, too often I find the keyboard too high to use (then I adjust the chair), and too close to the edge.

    It seems to me the keyboard shape is less important then where the keyboard is.

    Also, It seems I
  • I'm recovering from tendonitis in my fingers rather than my wrists.

    I was using two Happy Hacking keyboards at almost right angles to each other, which made me have to twist to use one of them (my main machine of choice, as it turned out), and I would happly pound away at the keys with habitual excessive force. Then one day: tap, tappity, tap, tap, OUCH!

    First, I collapsed my two keyboards and monitor s to one with a KVM. Then I started looking for an ergonomic keyboard.

    For me it was very much the amount
  • I think it has to do with the fact that laptop keyboards are inset into the laptop and the 'wrist rest' is actually positioned above the keys or at least at the same elevation as the keys. Having your fingers push down into the keyboard seems like a much more natural activity compared to normal keyboards where you typically push forward and usually have to lift your fingers above parallel to reach various keys.
  • I have two possible andswers to this really, and the first is hand movement.
    When using a laptop, the keyboard is usually smalles,as in not as wide, what with smaller keys, and the lack of a keypad. This causes you to not move around as much and not slide on your wrists or forearms, like you would on a normal keyboard. Also, there might be soething to the fact that laptop keyboards are flat, as opposed to normal keyboards that are at an incline to you.
    The second reason is body position.
    If you spend all da
  • It has nothing to do with the keyboard. The problem you're experiencing probably has more to do with your mouse than anything. Most people place the mouse too high and too far away from their body than they should. Mouse clicking with an extended arm is a very common cause of RSI--the motion causes a great deal of strain to the wrist. This is why some people with RSI use a foot pedal as a mouse clicker. In fact, these foot pedal mice buttons are used very commonly in the vector digitization industry (p

  • There are multiple factors which determine whether or not a keyboard might contribute to carpal tunnel syndrome or the less severe tendonitis.

    The laptop may be working better for you because the laptop keyboard ends up being closer to the right height (elbows at your side, forming a 90 deg angle, wrists straight). You may also not be resting your wrists/palms on the keyboard or anything else (a no-no). I find that frequently having to bend my wrists horizontally to use the smaller keyboard to be an aggra

  • I don't have CT, but when using a regular keyboard and a laptop keyboard, I find my shoulder muscles getting stiff and achy, which doesn't happen when using an ergonomic keyboard (and yes, I use the wristrest on the ergo keyboard).

    And for bigger people like me, typing an a laptop feels very constraining. I've used an ergo keyboard for 7+ years, and I find when typing on a regular/laptop keyboard, I make a heck of alot more typing mistakes than an ergo (and no, even though I'm a bit overweight, I don't hav
  • I also have found the same thing, I had used a Sony VIAO with a 3/4 size keyboard for some time without any issues. But when my job required me to use a conventional keyboard & mouse I began developing wrist pain. Now my Powerbook seems to let it feel better, but as soon as I return to a conventional keyboard I can count on several days of discomfort.
  • Ive got my own theory about this whole Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, and Egonomic typing.

    I have been typing for just about my whole life. In spans of actual years, lets say 20. I do not have any problem with my wrists or fingers. Now you might just say "You're a lucky one". But the fact of the matter is, as I have observed, most computer geeks I associate with are in the same boat. The people that DO have issues, are the ones that type "properly", and can type rediculous amounts of words a second. I don't think
  • Maybe the problem isn't the keyboard, but the mouse. I had an office mate who would kill himself trying to use a mouse on a low desk.

    Personally, I think half these ergonomics folks are full of it. I think it's better to have your tendons straight, for both mouse and keyboard. So instead of dropping my keyboard and mouse, I raise them and lower my chair until my arms are nearly straight on my desk.

    BTW, Gateway laptops have a much worse keyboard than Dell ones. The Fn key is the outermost left key, with C

  • If you constantly use a mouse that you have to move your wrist to operate, then you are setting yourself up for the potential world of pain. I found the only way to combat this problem when I'm at work is to use a stationary mouse (aka trackball shaped like a mouse) and it literally changed the way my wrist and hand feel. I use gel supports for both the split keyboard and trackball, and I tell you, my wrists only have momentary problems when I use a regular mouse for a prolonged period of time. Logitech
  • Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, I think, may be less relevant to this discussion than RSI (Repetitive Stress Injury), which is a much more common result of keyboard and mouse usage. Carpal Tunnel may be as much genetic as anything else and RSI is something everyone can get. RSI is much more common and is often mistaken for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome (something of a disease-of-the-week in today's computerized world).

    Here are a few points to keep in mind:

    -Mice are usually responsible for many more RSI problems that key
  • I like laptop keyboards much better. I wish I could find a laptop keyboard equivalent for my desktop...something with short keystrokes, flat keys, and a wrist rest built in.

    I think the wrist rest is probably the biggest factor as far as comfort goes. I love the keys on laptops, though.
    • Try googling for The Happy Hacker keyboard. It dosen't have a wrist rest but it is about the same as a laptop keyboard otherwise. And the ctrl and caps keys are swapped around so no streching your pinky finger to death
    • Check this out: the TypeMatrix EZR2030 [typematrix.com]. They're not available yet (in production now) but I'm getting two right off the line. Same size as a laptop keyboard, same key action, thin and flat (in fact small enough to carry in your laptop bag), plus it has other neat features like putting the Enter and Backspace keys in the center of the keyboard where your stronger index fingers can use them. Oh, and it switches between Dvorak (which I use) and Qwerty. No wrist rest though - but you can get one of those s
  • I use an old Microsoft Natural keyboard (the proper kind that slants backwards :-) connected to my laptop whenever I can. When I am forced to use my laptop by itself (when travelling or in meetings usually - my laptop is my desktop comp at work with keyboard, mouse, and monitor), my wrists hurt. I'm sure I would get used to it, but no thanks.

    And don't even get me started on the touchpad. Aargh.
  • I had exactly the same experience. I am not sure exactly what the reason is, and every person's body is different. But my guess is that the fundamental causes of RSI in the wrists and shoulders are (1) use of the mouse (2) bad keyboard posture.

    Most laptops today have a touchpad, and after I got used to it I found that the shoulder pain I had had since 6 months after starting with the mouse in 1989 got much better.

    I typed for many years on manual typewrites, DECWriters, and similar high-force keyboards tha

  • I'm a third year computer science student and since last year I've had huge cronic pain in both my wrists after hundreds of different methods of pain reductionI finally realized that the pain started 1 month after I changed from a regular ergonomic keyboard to ms's natural keyboard pro. when I realized that this was the issue I switched to a regular logitech keyboard and I rarely have problems, the main issue I noticed it was definatly the amount of force needed to move each key. I'm now highly considering
  • Only considering the keyboard and not the mouse, a laptop keyboard being narrower than a desktop keyboard forces more inward rotation of the shoulders when typing. The result is rounded back syndrome.

    You may be okay with one of HP's 17" laptops that has a large keyboard with a dedicated numeric pad / cursor pad. Your shoulders don't have to rotate as much if you use the numeric pad as a dedicated cursor pad.

    Of course as another person stated, the mouse is the big issue for computer users. Even changing to
  • My experience has been just the opposite. I never had any problems with my wrists until I started using my laptop full time. Since then I have not been able to do anything to fix my tendonitis. I do believe that touchpads are better for your wrists than mice though, and in all honesty, I got the laptop and started having problems when I switched from part time to full time programming, which is probably the real root of the problem.
  • The dirty lottle secret of ergonomics is that there is no "best" solution or you could use what everybody else uses. Our bodies are different and we need different solutions. Some of us need very different solutions. The "best" thing ergo designers can do is to make thngs as adjustable as they can. The solution to ergo problems is to keep trying until you find what works. That may be a laptop or it may be working standing up.
  • ... and that might more accurately describe the problem, the Repetitive Stress. Simply the change from the keyboard you've been using for years to something with a different size and different key travel might be enough to reduce the symptoms you're seeing. You might try seeking a balance between normal keyboard use and small keyboard use, even if that means getting one of those little tiny keyboards to plug into your desktop occasionally.

    My RSI comes from the mouse, and simply using a trackball at home a

  • actually i've kinda noticed it the other way, i switched to a laptop after having no problems and i find normal keyboards awefull, i cant touch type, speed drops off to nothing and i start developing pain after about 30 mins. keep using your laptop mate!

    actually the only thing i find is ok is one of them mini happy hacker keyboards

  • I was using the same laptop exclusively for about two years, and I was starting to get pains in my wrists. Then I found an old IBM keyboard from 1985 - you know, the big heavy ones with steel bases. Within a day or two the pains had gone away (I think I caught it early)

    So maybe the lesson here is to vary your keyboards regularly? Use the laptop for a month, then a standard keyboard, then an ergonomic keyboard. Then you don't get set in one position.
  • I see that a few people have commented on wrist braces to help with typing and reduce pain. Can anyone say that they have used wrist braces and have they helped? Any kind of braces in particular?

    --
    In London? Need a Physics Tutor? [colingregorypalmer.net]

    American Weblog in London [colingregorypalmer.net]
  • I've had several surgeries for wrist reconstruction from a military injury. As a result I have what amounts to carpal tunnel to an extent that you can't develop without artificial aid. Now, this is in one hand, so I have another to compare with.

    My biggest problem was the mouse. Particularly holding it in a half-closed grasp for such long periods while moving it all around the table. My solution was to get a thumbwheel mouse.

    As for keyboards, some are better for me than other. The ergo-keyboards never made

  • I was a full time College student, a part time programmer, and a part time guitar/bass player. I've been diagnosed with tendonitis in both wrists a few times over a period of a few years (I was prescribed non-steroidal anti-inflammatory like Celebrex [celebrex.com] - didn't really help, same as Advil, but much more expensive). A year ago I was diagnosed with (bilateral) Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, for which the orthopedic surgeon prescribed a pair of these wrist braces [medicalmodalities.com]. I got them much cheaper that than that site's list p

  • I think laptops are actually in general more ergonomic, at least it feels that way to me. Of course, I have to compare my laptop (sitting on my desk head on) to my desktop, which has a CRT that has to sit on my desk to the side because of the size of the tube.

    The first thing that makes laptops more ergonomic is the monitor. If you are looking head on with the monitor while typing, which is exactly what you do when you use a laptop because you have to (It's not like you can unmount the monitor and move i
  • I've got tendinitis and found that changing from a normal mouse to an ergo mouse (mine's the Whale by Humanscale -- it looks ridiculous, like a squashed, normal mouse) helped more than anything because I no longer move it with my wrist but with the length of my arm (ie at the elbow). Exercises from a physiotherapist helped a lot too. I haven't got an opinion about the laptop apart from the fact that -- like someone said -- the keys are probably softer.
  • I noticed the same thing and my desktop has a CRT monitor while the laptop is much less eye-straining LCD. I agree with the other poster-I can move my laptop around on my lap or on the floor. I can easily tilt the screen. I can't do the same with my 21" monitor. I think my real ergonomic problem with the desktop is that the table it is on is too high.

    I get a pain on my back on the mid left side whenever I use my desktop with the MS Natural keyboard and an optical mouse (I'm right handed). The laptop is so

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