802.11 for Vehicles? 53
mantid asks: "I am about to do a long trip (1 year) in a VW Vanagon, and would like to set up wireless net access from within the vehicle. What is the most effective system for hassle-free, permanent, long-term installation? Note, this is not just for wardriving, many truckstops, netcafes, and coffee shops are now offering legit net access. I just don't want to have to bring laptop inside to do it. Please suggest tried and true antenna types as well as tips/concerns/issues."
Bring some sketch paper instead (Score:1, Insightful)
Write about what thrills you out on the road, and write it on paper so that it is personal and intimate, and when you've finally worked it into a polished gem release it to the world.
Imagine your trip as your being born a second time.
Re:Bring some sketch paper instead (Score:5, Insightful)
One shouldn't project ones own values onto everyone else.
Re:Bring some sketch paper instead (Score:5, Insightful)
-- Smell the smells, hear the sounds.
Why not fly?
-- Quicker way to get there
Why are these answers wrong? Because he didn't ask the question....
He said "I am about to do a long trip (1 year) in a VW Vanagon", he didn't say I'm driving around the US drawing big sketches of the people I meet and things I see what are some tablet PC's or good drawing tablets for my PC.
What is he's a traveling salesmen that needs to keep up w/ his email, or log his sales, create invoices, surf the web to keep up w/ news etc.
It's usually good when someone asks a question to answer it...
Re:Bring some sketch paper instead (Score:1)
Ah, the irony. Oh, damn...
Why Wi-Fi? (Score:5, Interesting)
It seems reliable, and fast enough that I didn't get pissed off doing typical web browsing.
For double-extra-special bonus points, add an external antenna.
Or, just go ahead and do the Wi-Fi thing. Might be cheaper, and is sure to be faster and less available.
Build an antenna, or buy an antenna, or whatever.
If I were feeling cheap, I'd start with a cell phone antenna and then cut it to length for the correct frequency. If I were feeling spendy, I'd buy a high-gain omni from Tessco [tessco.com] and invest a lot of time mounting and cabling it.
Then just plug the kit into your Proxim/Orinoco/Lucent card, drive to town, and waste half a day looking for a legitimate hotspot.
Re:Why Wi-Fi? (Score:1)
If you were going to do that, you could just get a rod from a hobby shop (made of that springy stuff, I think they use it in RC planes), and cut it to length.
For a nice cheap omni, one can construct a 2.4Ghz discone antenna, or buy one from Ramsey electronics (hit google). Discones are really simple to build, I think Ramsey's are made from a cake tin and a conic section of metal (probably als
Re:Why Wi-Fi? (Score:1)
FlyingJ (Score:5, Informative)
I've used FlyingJ hotspots on the road, and you don't really need a special antenna -- in general, the reception is fine from inside the car with a normal pcmcia wifi card.
The parking lots are pretty big, and there are places where the reception isn't great, but it's usually pretty easy to drive to another part of the lot to improve your signal. I worked under the theory that the networks were designed to provide the best signals to the truckers, so I tended to park closer to the truck section.
Most of the problems I had seemed to be caused by mistakes on the FlyingJ side of things. I think they had a fairly bloody roll out. In order to user their system, you have to create an account and login.
You do that by pulling up a browser, and letting it detect the proxy server settings automatically. If you haven't logged in, the proxy server redirects you to a page where you can submit your cc or login if you already have an account.
I found that at a lot of locations, things weren't working. My computer couldn't find the proxy server, or whatever. At a couple of locations the system was just open -- there was no login, and it worked fine.
In general, though, it's pretty cool. The FlyingJ's were spaced out so that I could check my email and surf the web a couple of times a day. It's not expensive, and when it works, it works pretty well. I could use ssh and vnc to pull up my home desktop, and it was useable.
I bought the cheapest accounts, 15 minutes at a time. That turned out to be a good plan, mostly because some truck stops didn't have working networks.
It's tempting to look at your route and tell yourself, "I'll be able to hit these two other truck stops in the next 24 hours -- so I'll save money and buy a 24 hour account." The problem is that sometimes the next truck stop didn't work when I got there. It would have sucked to have paid more, expecting to be able to use a wireless net that was down.
I took two road trips, one maybe 8 months ago, and another about 6 months ago, and the FlyingJ system was substantially more reliable the second time around. So I'd expect them to have something reasonably solid now, But I wouldn't pay for a long term account until I *knew* it was solid.
Re:FlyingJ (Score:3, Funny)
Go inside, buy a large coffee and a muffin, and then sit in your car and browse away. You don't have to eat the muffin or drink the coffee--that's just to kee
Re:FlyingJ (Score:2)
If you are doing a year long trip, it might be worth buying 1 year access, assuming you will be near a flying-J often enough to use them.
Re:FlyingJ (Score:2)
Pricing:
1 Hour ............. $1.95
1 Day ............. $4.95
1 Month ............. $24.95
1 Year ............. $199.95
And a map with their service locations [tonservices.com].
It looks like Internet access is provided by TON Services [tonservices.com] which provides drivers and travelers easy access to pre-paid calling cards, load/equipment posting, freight matching, advertising services, truck insurance, and other driver related services all through the RoadLink System located in Flying J Trave
Re:FlyingJ (Score:1)
It just so happens that my GF works at a Flying J. She just confirmed to me that they locate and point their WiFi antennas to give the best reception to the truckers in the truck lot.
Also, she tells me that (as would be expected) that the best reception is inside of the building. A fair number of truckers carry laptops and take them inside.
LK
Am I missing something ? (Score:1, Redundant)
Brings me back (Score:3, Interesting)
* 5 laptops
* 802.11b network
* 1 GPRS cell phone (~20 kBit, and free of charge at that time)
* 1 Bluetooth card in one of the laptops, interfacing the cell phone.
So in essence all but one of the laptops relied on three separate radio links: WLAN to the gateway, bluetooth from the gateway to the cell phone, and GPRS/GSM to the "net". Funny thing was it actually worked surprisingly well.
We didn't do any serious latency or throughput tests, but everybody was able to use IM and email, and the more patient of us could even browse the net.
Cool...I guess (Score:1)
When I suggested we go out and actually do something, they looked at me funny.
They had the biggest and best machines with nice expensive flat panels...soley to run AIM on.
Re:Cool...I guess (Score:2)
my daughter is schooled online. When I want
to tell her something, I use YIM.
Re:Brings me back (Score:2)
Circuit City/Best Buy (Score:2)
Hotspot finders (Score:5, Informative)
If you're willing to do a permanent mount... (Score:5, Informative)
For my 2.4 solution, I installed an "NMO" antenna mount on the roof of my Expedition (drilling holes doesn't bother me - there's a total of 15 antennas mounted on the roof using NMO mounts, each of which requires a 3/4"-diameter hole).
First, find you an 802.11 card with an external antenna connector. The Orinoco 802.11b-only Gold works very nicely. Buy a pigtail to convert from the little push-on connector on the edge of the card (MCX?) to something more standard, like an N.
Next, buy the appropriate mount and antenna. The mount coax will be somewhat inflexible and will have a solid center conductor, so you'll need to be careful not to crush/damage it.
Maxrad mounts [maxrad.com]
And an antenna:
Maxrad antennas [maxrad.com]
I use the BMAXC24503 model. The 5db gain is nicer, but longer.
Drill a hole in the roof, install the mount, run the coax down through one of the pillars, connect to your pigtail, and connect to the card. You'll be amazed at the difference over your internal "antenna" (more like a dummy load.)
Installing antennas (drilling holes in the roof) is not for the faint of heart. Check with your local 2-way radio installers, and they might be able to put the antenna in for you for not too much money.
Re:If you're willing to do a permanent mount... (Score:1)
Re:If you're willing to do a permanent mount... (Score:2)
Antenna mounting and other roadtrip advice. (Score:3, Informative)
Second, yeah the card's integrated antenna is crap. Anything external that's even close to the right band will do better. I disagree that external mounting is a big
Magmount antenna (Score:1)
Alternatively you might consider getting one of their pole mounted 12dbi omni antennas, it might not be that noticeable if you place it on the side of your vehicle, perhaps near the bumper.
Hmm... (Score:2)
DashPC (Score:4, Interesting)
I am looking for a simular setup and plan on using the Senao 200mW wireless card to boost performance from within the car.
Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:4, Interesting)
I've been toying with a related idea - but instead of setting up a 'client' system, I was considering trying to set up a portable "access point" and internal "network" in a vehicle.
I find it odd that even today nobody blinks if someone says they're building a LAN and doesn't mention internet access, but if someone says "wifi" it's automatically assumed it's only for The Internet(tm)...
I'm thinking of taking a "scrounged" ancient laptop, Prism 2/2.5/3-based 802.11b card, hostap [epitest.fi] (is there a hostap-type linux driver for prism GT chipsets yet?), and a trimmed down linux distro running dhcp, dns, and web servers (maybe even Samba) to provide 'local network only' connections to passers by as I travel, just as an experiment. Maybe even some sort of 'chat' facility. (Mainly just because I'm curious how many people would notice, how many people would immediately disconnect when they got the "this doesn't provide internet access" page, and how many would browse the [legally] free downloads, "sign" the guestbook, and so on...)
On the other hand, I'd also like to figure out how to interface with Kismet [kismetwireless.net] so as to "pause" it when a potentially-open network is detected and have a script check to see if it's REALLY open (a lot of "open" networks seem to still restrict by MAC address, or aren't running DHCP servers, or otherwise are not designed to be connected to by just anyone) and perhaps "burst" a quick email send/recieve as I drive by before having Kismet resume scanning...
Re:Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:1)
--
lds
Re:Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:2)
What a very cool idea! If you and your extended family were on a trip in multiple vehicles, you could have a multi-vehicle mobile LAN. Kind of like having CB or FRS radios, but more geeky.
As for passing motorists... here's a service you could provide, though it would violate any number of TOS: provide internet access to fell
PrismGT chipset access point... (Score:2)
Just a followup to this part of my own post - evidently, according to the January 8th 2004 "News" post at www.prism54.org (Prism GT driver for Linux) [prism54.org] they DO have "Master" mode working and you CAN use supported cards as an access point. Nifty, now I've got an excuse to upgrade my "main" laptop's wireless card to an 802.11g and use the 802.11b that I'm currently on for my little project...
Re:Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:2)
Serve DHCP, intercept all HTTP requests, and have fun. Maybe an IRC server too, along with an instant Java client for the visitors who don't have one installed already.
On more than one occasion, I've used my laptop and Nextel Packetstream data service to provide a local 802.11b hotspot where none existed. It's dialup speed, but adequate for my friends to check their emai
Re:Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:2)
Cool idea.
S
Re:Vehicle-mounted ACCESS POINT?... (Score:2)
If you see this SSID (or my regular "No Beer and No TV Make Homer..."), look around for a large tan/brown striped motorhome. (38' Fleetwood Discovery Diesel for those interested)
The VAN (Score:2)
That's about when our Bender instincts kicked in: "I'm going to make my own VAN...with blackjack, and hookers! Ah, forget the VAN! In fact, screw the whole thing!"
A rather inexpensive (and portable) solution (Score:1)
Cheap, Portable, and a definite chick magnet!
WiFi access (Score:2, Insightful)
Keep in mind the laws (Score:2)
Re:Keep in mind the laws (Score:1)
802.11b from the car (Score:2)
As to which 802.11 nic you can use, it won't be a cheap one. I don't know if you're using a laptop, or a "customized" desktop installed in the car, but I'd look for cards like the Cisco AIR-PCI352 for the desktop, or the Cisco AIR-LMC352 PC Card.
The PCI card has a standard RP-TNC connector. The PC Card has a smaller MMCX connector, but both will allow you to
how to do it (Score:1)
Bluetooth *and* Wi-Fi (Score:1)
802.11 VW Combi-connection (Score:1)
Why-Fi - Wi-Fi - WhyFi - WiFi (Score:1)
Why-Fi.net: Everything WhyFi, Wi-Fi, and WiFi [why-fi.net]