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Television Media Wireless Networking Hardware Technology

TiVo and DirecTV in a Cellular-Only Household? 110

Posted by Cliff from the revisiting-a-query dept.
Balthisar asks: "Like so many others, my wife and I have recently made the move to pure mobile telephone use, and have disconnected the landline permanently. Today, I turned on the TiVo and received a stern warning that only three days of the program guide remained! I screwed up. Anyone have a good emergency way of refreshing the program guide while I wait for my TiVo networking card to come in? An additional concern is DirecTV: I never use Pay Per View, but it's not connected, either. Any horror stories about not having your DirecTV connected to a phone line? If you don't have any advice, at least take this as a cautionary tale to make a good checklist before taking the leap of eliminating your terrestrial line!" This topic was handled in a previous article over 2 years ago. What suggestions do you have for others, that find themselves in this position?
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TiVo and DirecTV in a Cellular-Only Household? More

TiVo and DirecTV in a Cellular-Only Household?

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  • DishNetwork doesn't mind (Score:3, Informative)

    by bscott ( 460706 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:21AM (#8210124)
    I dunno about DirectTV, or Tivo, but I have DishNetwork and it doesn't mind not being able to dial out. I leave a phone line hooked up to it so that we have the CallerID-on-TV feature, but since I don't use PPV and am the suspicious type, I've effectively disabled its dial-out capability by setting the "dial this number for an outside line" to a "4". Six months, no probs.

    As for Tivo's guide, maybe I'm missing something but is it that big a deal? I've never used a Tivo but I'd guess that the guide you get from your satellite TV receiver ought to have most of the same functions. Granted, it won't guess at shows you might like to watch, but then again that 'feature' leads only to bad standup comedy jokes which reference Will and Grace, in my experience...

    • Re:DishNetwork doesn't mind (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I've effectively disabled its dial-out capability by setting the "dial this number for an outside line" to a "4". Six months, no probs.

      Except that extra digits in a telephone number are ignored, so the number formed by "4" + (DishNetwork number) might be a valid 7-digit or 10-digit telephone number. In which case somebody could be getting random calls from your number, probably late at night.
      • > Except that extra digits in a telephone number are ignored,
        > so the number formed by "4" + (DishNetwork number) might be
        > a valid 7-digit or 10-digit telephone number.

        I wasn't long-winded enough in the original post to mention this, but assuming it's an 800- number to begin with, the prefix would be "418" which doesn't exist in my area code (I checked).

        And to the best of my knowledge, it's not trying to make outgoing calls anyway - I'm just trying to have an extra layer of protection in case I
    • Basic Tivo needs to dial-up. The internal programme guide is used to choose which programme to record, and allows you to set up wishlists and season passes. You can tell it to record based on time and channel, but it's fiddly to do.

      Plus the ability to guess what you might like has come in useful for me in the past. Since I never watch Will and Grace, Tivo doesn't think I'm gay;)
    • I've got DishNetwork and the PVR, no land line, and no problems - with either TV or phone service anyway... :)

      Sell the Tivo and DirecTV receiver, and get a Dish PVR setup. They usually have good deals going on - and the 701 receiver is Linux-based (and expensive).
    • I used to work for DishNetwork, and you wouldn't believe how many time people who "never order PPV" run into problems when they have a houseguest or a teenage son.

      There are sometimes 9 PPV movies sitting on the smartcard that were ordered last year, but since the telephone line isn't connected, they were never reported. Once someone tries to order one more, the receiver notifies them that they need to connect a telephone line. They do so temporarily and BAM 9 PPVs download to DishNetwork's servers and the

  • DirecTV does not require a phone line (Score:5, Informative)

    by jcwren ( 166164 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:26AM (#8210143) Homepage

    DirecTV does not require a phone line, unless you use pay-per-view options. It gets the program guide updates over the air. If your phone has an accessory to provide dial tone, you'd be able to use that to allow it to phone home. However, you'll probably have to tell them about the phone number, as they don't seem to like units reporting in from the phone number that's not associated with the account.

    As you've figured out, TiVo gets its updates over the phone line. If you have an integrated TiVo/DirectTV receiver, I'm not sure what happens in that case. I've got the original, and it can only do it over the phone line (not including network mods).

    • Re:DirecTV does not require a phone line (Score:5, Informative)

      by reaper20 ( 23396 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:37AM (#8210183) Homepage
      I have a Directivo, and after one of the 3.x updates the need for the phone line went away. It will complain occassionally that it hasn't phoned in, but mine has been working flawlessly without a phone line for months.
    • For that matter, if you want pay-per-view, there's you can always use the web site to request a movie. I've had my non-tivo directtv system in a room without a phone jack for five years.
    • My experience with DirecTV and the phone line is that is establishes a sort-of two way communication. The satellite system by itself is one way. They can send program guide updates AS WELL AS smart card software updates via the satellite stream. That's how they get those hacked cards. They can change the software that runs on the smart card...via the satellite stream. They issue read/write commands to the smart card that contains the program that decrypts the stream. Anybody remember "Back Sunday" Do
    • Technically, you're right. DirecTV equipment will work just fine with no phone line plugged in so long as you don't try to order anything with your remote. However, all of DirecTV's marketing materials still say a phone line is required. What this basically means is that DirecTV is reserving the right to flip the switch and make the phone line a required part of their authorization system again at any time without warning. So, you can hook up such a setup now, but there's no promise it'll always work. Of
    • I have the same setup at home. Without a phone line you dont get pay per view or "showcases" nor suggestions (which I think are worthless) but everything that matters works fine.

      I spoke to customer service about this once and they just said not to worry about it. You may want to do one phone call to make sure there aren't any upgrades waiting for you, but for the most part directv isn't doing anything with the directivos.

  • Simple? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:26AM (#8210144)
    Take your Tivo to somebody else's house and hook it up to their phone line, then force it to make a call. It will download like 2 weeks worth of data.
    • In the meantime, if it is a Series1 US standalone TiVo that originally shipped from the factory with a version of the software before 2.0 (i.e. 1.3.0, 1.2.1, etc.), and aren't running 2.0 itself now, then you'll still be able to set up manual timed recordings until your network card arrives. If it is a Series2 or a Sony that shipped with 2.0 or later, all recording except LiveTV will be disabled.

      DirecTiVo boxes all require service to record, but they get their guide data over the dish, not over the phone.

  • Direct Tivo reports 175 days since I've dialed up. (Score:5, Informative)

    by robdeadtech ( 232013 ) * on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:27AM (#8210149)
    It's not a problem. You'll get a warning every time you press your tivo button that says something like "It's been 175 days since you've dialed up" but unless you want to do pay-per-view it simply doesn't matter. At least it hasn't mattered to me. The Direct Tivo sends programming data to you machine via the satellite.

    • Same here. 143 days and counting. I have a Hughes HDVR2. I think this is only true for Series 2 DirecTivos though. If you have a Series 1 DirecTivo, such as the Sony SAT-T60, then you will get crippled functionality after 30 days without a call. You will not be able to record new shows, but you will still have "trick play" (pause-live TV, etc) and can still view previously recorded programming.

      And phone line or not, you can always buy your Pay-Per-View shows by going to the DirecTV website [directv.com].

    • Same here, over 370 days for me. I have noticed that the DirecTivo has been giving me the message that I only have two days of program guide left. However, since it has given me this message for over a month and still works, I am not particularly worried about it.

      • I have noticed that the DirecTivo has been giving me the message that I only have two days of program guide left. However, since it has given me this message for over a month and still works, I am not particularly worried about it.

        That's a known bug which has also shown up on our DirecTiVo -- even though our line is plugged in. I can't find the TiVo Community Forum thread that discusses it at the moment, though.

    • If you do that, how the heck is Tivo supposed to find out how many times you rewound during the superbowl half-time show?!

  • usb adapter (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nutcase ( 86887 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @02:33AM (#8210166) Homepage Journal
    I have a tivo and am cellular only. I took it to a friend's house, left it overnight to update, and brought it home. I have hooked up a usb->ethernet adapter, and run it through a router to my broadband connection. The latest tivo software (downloaded while it was hooked up overnight at my friends) supports usb ethernet natively.

    It works perfectly, with the only hassle being that initial setup.

    • Re:usb adapter (Score:4, Informative)

      by sakusha ( 441986 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @03:41AM (#8210375)
      You didn't need to leave it at your friend's house overnight. There's a menu function "Make Daily Call Now" to make it dial out immediately.
      • I know. But after running through the hour+ long setup download, i told it to make the daily call. Two hours later, it was still on the line. At this point it was 11pm, So rather than sleep over, i decided to leave it there. Call me crazy if you must. ;)

  • DirecTV (Score:2, Interesting)

    by superchkn ( 632774 )
    I don't know about Tivo, but I once worked for a national store that sold DirecTV units. We were told by the DirecTV people that they often detected pirated units by them calling from an unauthorized number, or not calling at all. Now obviously they also knew which machines had hacked (or stolen) cards somehow and they would somehow disable those machines (sounded like some sort of bad BIOS flash from what the DirecTV representatives said). They asked us to be sure to tell the customers that the units NE
    • We've had our's unplugged for quite some time, as the old time it's plugged in is to order a Pay-Per-View movie, and that doesn't happen very often. We've never been called by them yet, so I assume that they have no way to tell.

  • Directv was NOT connected (Score:4, Informative)

    by vandalman ( 746235 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @03:46AM (#8210399)
    I had mine disconnected for a while and I slowly lost programing I paid for. I ended up having to call tech support, they said that it needed to be connected to verify the card was still in use.
    • I've had DirecTV for 1.5 years now, and have not needed to have them connected to the phone line at all. I don't use PPV and they've never dialed-up, nor had the "programming loss" issue you speak of. I have been hit by several receiver software bugs that have made my standalone tivo not tune properly.

      I suspect that if you're having that problem (my most recent was an issue tuning the local channels on the RCA430RG) it might be a dish pointing issue or some defect with the receiver.

      They even sent me a

  • You don't need a network card (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Yeechang Lee ( 3429 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @03:59AM (#8210428)
    I presume that you have a Series 1 TiVo given the 9thtee card. So do I, but since I don't need anything more than daily updates, I use a serial cable to hook mine up to my Linux box [google.com] (Windows boxes work too). Not bad for $5.
    • If you just want to use Windows, here is a link to using PPP over serial. I am in the process of setting this up right now as I am in the same boat you are. Why pay $50+ a month for a phone line when I can just use my mobile.

      http://www.b-lan.com/otto/tivo3xp/
  • I have a Comcast DVR and it's only $10 a month. I think tivo is $15 and you have to buy equipment. See if your digital cable provider has DVR Equipment. It does not require internet/phone line at all.
    • Yeah, but it doesn't have nearly the functionality of a Tivo, either...

  • Great TiVo Community Website (Score:4, Informative)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @08:29AM (#8210977) Homepage Journal
    http://www.tivocommunity.com

    Enjoy!

  • Use your cell phone (Score:4, Interesting)

    by zelphior ( 668354 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @10:09AM (#8211222) Homepage Journal
    It's pretty easy to set up your cell phone to have TiVo call through it. Just get an adaptor for your cell phone. I've seen adaptors that allow you to plug your cell phone into a laptop modem, and use it to dial up. Just plug the phone cord out from the TiVo and into the cell phone adaptor, then use that to make short calls to update your tv guide or whatever. Don't know if it would work for sure (never tried it myself), but it's worth a shot. My phone came with an adaptor that plugs into the mini jack I plug my earplug into, and has a standard phone jack on the other side. I'd imagine you could get such a device at radio shack or something.

    • Re:Use your cell phone (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dave1g ( 680091 )
      Isn't that nearly impossible?

      Modems use analog. Cell phones are digital.

      You can't run a normal modem through any type of cell phone adapter as far as I know.
      • Most cell phones have dual mode, and can use analog and digital. At least, older ones like mine do. I'd imagine it would be pretty difficult to use an all digital cell phone as a modem.
  • With my bride picking up a mobile phone as well, our house is getting ready to drop the landline. The only device in the house that uses it is my DirectTV PVR, so I've started the process by giving DirectTV a call last month.

    The service rep said the PVR had to have a phone connection. I tried qualifying my situation - noting that I don't order any PPV and the guide and updates come through the dish. No matter, they were insistent I needed one. Yah, right - been four months since I plugged the phone cor
    • I use Vonage (VoIP) at home. Apparently my DirecTivo dials up to 2 different places - Tivo and DIrectTv. The Tivo calls go through fine, but the DirectTv ones do not connect, I suspect because they are insiting on 56K dialup, which will not work over Vonage.

      Anyway, everything works fine. I can order PPV (and get charged for it), but I would need to connect up to a real phone line if I had multiple recievers, or was interested in some of the premium sports packages. Plus there is that annoying message e
      • I ditched the cable tv when I added DirectTV, so the cable only gives broadband. Did a bit more digging and it looks like the pvr unit I have does its software updates over the phone line. Bought the house because it was within DSL range, only to find they did not run enough copper and were multiplexing (?) - so ten days after I moved in I found out I would not have a static IP address. Barnacles! Getting cable modem was a godsend, as I would get a shaky 4k connection on my external US Robotics 56k mode
  • Ok. This is a very interesting situation. I have been reading up on DirecTiVo "hacking" for some time now, and it seems as if your quandry falls right under the legal justification for what these sites are trying to do. According to them, their software/hacks/mods are for people in situations just like yours, and not those who are simply stealing satellite service (and therefore, would not want to connect the units to the phone. If its hooked to the phone then it has the ability to communicate two-way, if i

  • Much bigger problem (Score:5, Interesting)

    by alazar ( 463253 ) on Saturday February 07, 2004 @12:06PM (#8211713) Journal
    I guess you haven't tried to get any credit (cards or otherwise) since you went cellular only. A friend just went through this problem. The "great" USA Patriot Act has made it illegal for companies issuing credit to do so for anyone who does not have a landline telephone number.

    That said - I cannot find it explicitly in the act , after a quick review. (EPIC.org [epic.org]). But it may be that I missed it, or that the details are in some resulting regulation, or that that is the interpretation of the credit issuer.

    My buddy was trying to buy furniture, and got turned down even tho he has an excellent credit record. After doing the digging the credit issuer told him that they could not issue because he gave them only a mobile phone number.

    I'd love to hear about your experience should you apply for new credit.
    • I'd be curious as to how they would know it was a mobile number, unless you told them. I'm also intrigued as to why they would care. Your landline phone is no more or less associated with you than your mobile phone.
      • I imagine it has to do with "mobility" or that you may be considered as not having a permanent location. Yeah, pretty stupid that they assume no landline means that... I've actually heard this before though.

    • Re:Much bigger problem (Score:3, Interesting)

      by lizrd ( 69275 )
      I've purchased a house, car and opened a new credit card account in the last year. It's been almost three years since I dropped my land line.

      I do run into problems every once in a while. Domino's won't deliver without a regular phone # on caller ID, so I order from Papa John's when I'm too lazy to pick up pizza from some place good. I was turned down for credit once at a Jewelry store because of the lack of home phone thing. I went across the mall to another store and made my purchase there instead.

    • My wife and I went wireless in December of 2002. Since then I have gotten two car loans and refinanced my house. I don't know what sort of problems your buddy had, but my guess is that it was more of a problem on the lenders end of the issue than a result of the Patriot Act.
    • uuh plus since number portability from land line to mobile is in place there isn't a way for people to tell what kind of number it.
  • Any sales rep or tech rep will tell you that the unit has to be hooked up to a phone line - I've been hearing this from DirecTV for years, regarding my original RCA DirecTV units, TiVo units, and TiVo2 after DirecTV bought them out. Apart from the initial setup, I have never ever had a phone line connected. It's been seven years this March! If I call to change programming, sometimes they will mention it, and say something like "if the phone isn't hooked up in 30 days you'll lose your service" but it's a
    • I suspect the phone line is the only way they have of gathering their aggregate viewer data (like how many people backed up to watch the Super Boob incident).

      You are correct. Data can be downloaded to the receiver via the dish, but uploading data would go through the phone line. Just like broadband via Sat requires a phone line for data uploads as well.
  • Well,that about says it. I hooked up to a phone once to try to get some pay-per-view, but it wouldn't even try. Never got it to work, so after a week or so I disconnected it.

  • Some suggestions... (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 07, 2004 @04:40PM (#8213706)
    I presume you have a Series 1 DirecTiVo, otherwise the network card you bought won't work. If your DirecTiVo is a brand new one, it is Series 2 and will not accept the network card you listed.

    As others have said, there's no need to have a DirecTiVo connected to the phone line except in one specific case: software upgrades. Software upgrades are always sent over the dialup modem, not over the satellite. There is a software release for DirecTiVos going out right now that fixes a significant bug (the TiVo always reports that there's only a day or two of guide data, even though there's far more). The bug is only cosmetic though and doesn't cause any functionality loss, according to most users. If your TiVo software is version 3.1.0b or less (Series 1) or 3.1.1b or less (Series 2) you'll need this new version. The version number is on the System Information screen.

    In your case, I'd wait a few weeks until the software is completely rolled out to all users. Then take your TiVo over to a friends and force it to dial in right then (there's a selection in the TiVo phone setup to do this). This call will take about an hour and download the new software.

    Others have mentioned tivocommunity.com, excellent resource for stuff like this.
  • (Putting on the dad cap) Doing nothing is always an option. This case sounds more like an issue of bad planning, rather than a technological one. You could buy a wired phone to cellular adapter (such as the Dock N Talk), but why spend all that money when your ethernet adapter is arriving soon? Why didn't you buy your ethernet adapter sooner or hang onto the landline until all of your communication needs were met?

    As a TiVo owner myself, I can say with confidence that not having the service available for
  • You shouldn't need a phone line

    I have DISHnetwork and TiVO. The DISHnetwork devices don't need to be hooked up to the phone line. They get their program info over the air.

    One of them is hooked up to a regular TiVO, and we use wireless networking to get the updated program guides.

  • My experience with DirecTV and the phone line is that is establishes a sort-of two way communication. The satellite system by itself is one way. They can send program guide updates AS WELL AS smart card software updates via the satellite stream. That's how they get those hacked cards. They can change the software that runs on the smart card...via the satellite stream. They issue read/write commands to the smart card that contains the program that decrypts the stream. Anybody remember " Back Sunday [satisfied-mind.com]" Do resear
    • I can say that my dad has no phone line of any kind and has DirecTV (not DirecTivo). He's had it for years and never had a single interruption in service (Except for the bad Florida storms). Of course, I hear TiVo can't function without the guide; oh well.

      Here's what I do: Don't watch TV. Its simple, healthy and you'll find far more free time in addition to saving money. And that TiVo can make a decent MIPS or PowerPC box depending on the version.

      ;-)

  • If you only have 1 DirecTV receiver then it's true, you don't have to have it connected to a land-based telephone line. BUT, if you have multiple DirecTV receivers in your home, then you MUST connect them all to a telephone jack in your house or EACH of the receivers will be charged the full monthly subscription price. So, let's say you have 3 DirecTV receivers in your house and you've signed up for the $39.99 per month DirecTV package...if you don't connect any of the receivers to a telephone jack then t
    • If you only have 1 DirecTV receiver then it's true, you don't have to have it connected to a land-based telephone line. BUT, if you have multiple DirecTV receivers in your home, then you MUST connect them all to a telephone jack in your house or EACH of the receivers will be charged the full monthly subscription price.

      Moderate that -1 (Factually Incorrect)... that is a just a line that DirecTV gives you in order to make you plug in the phone line.

      As others have said (and my 3 receivers, 1 UTV, 1 Sony, 1
    • Um... no.

      I have two receivers and receiver #2 has never been plugged into a phone line except during initial setup. No problems whatsoever and still only charged the extra $5/month for an extra receiver.

    • i have directtv and when the person was installing it i asked him if i had to have it pluged in to a phone jack, he said no but you will have to plug it in when you want to order some ppv. I have 3 recievers and there are the newest ones they are offering and i have had nothing wrong with them so far including being charged the full price for each reciever.
  • Your question doesn't specify if you're using a standalong TiVo or a DirecTivo unit. Most of the answers listed here implied you're referring to the DirectTivo option.

    But just in case, let's state the obvious: If you're using a Series2 Standalone TiVo, just get a USB network connector and plug the system into your home network.

    • Only standalones would warn about running out of guide data without a phone line. DirecTiVo units get their guide data over the satellite.

      That he's getting a network card rather than a USB-Ethernet bridge also points to it being Series1 hardware.

      The timeframe prevents him from running v2.0 of the software, so if it is a Philips, manual recording without guide data is still an option until the network card arrives. More iffy if it is a Sony as some of them did ship with 2.0 or newer software and thus con

  • Subject covers it.

    Your DirecTV only needs the connection if you try to order PPV stuff directly through the box. You can still call them up, order that way, and the box will get the approval signal over the air.

    Your Tivo, though, needs to contact the service to download updates and guide data. All Tivo's with USB ports (Even Series 1 Tivo's, I have one in my bedroom) have USB-connected Ethernet supported once you get your software revision to 4.0+. Once you're on Ethernet (wired or wireless, both are s

    • DirecTV tivos get their guide data from the satellite, not the phone line. Normal tivos need a phone line, but can be modified (in the case of series 1 units, with a card from 9thtee.com, or for series 2 units, a USB ethernet adapter) to use ethernet.

      You can use a DirecTivo (as other posters have pointed out) without a phone line, as long as you don't need to do any PPV stuff.

      • However, both you and many of the posters in this thread assume the person who submitted this question has a DirecTivo - when he specifically says his Tivo complained about the lack of guide data, and he also had questions about his DirecTV.

        Also, only very old (ok, maybe not VERY old, but old-as-in-old-style-case) Series 1 Tivos won't support the USB ethernet. As I stated, the Series 1 60 hour Tivo I have in my bedroom, once it upgraded to version 4 of the software, recognizes my Linksys USB Ethernet dong

        • Old tivos (series 1) don't support USB ethernet because they don't have USB. They do, however, support the TurboNet ethernet card from 9thtee.com. These require you to open the case and plug the card in, much like putting an ethernet card into a PC. More expensive than a USB dongle, but they work just fine.

          DirecTivos don't support ethernet of any sort despite having USB, but you don't need it. (DirecTV is scared of connectivity. Fear of pirated shows, or something.) You get your guide from the satelli
  • Assuming you have a cable or DSL setup at home, you can have Tivo connect directly to its servers over the internet via the serial port. The tivo came with a serial cable, but I made my own because it wasn't long enough. I plugged it into my Linux box's serial port, and set up PPP so that tivo could "see" the internet and do the direct connect. There's a special phone number you have to set tivo to dial to (something like #,211 or something weird like that). This is all discussed heavily on tivocommunit
  • This doesn't belong here. Go to Tivocommunity.com or the Tivo dealdatabase forums. This information is well covered.

    If you have an older DirecTivo (series 1) like I do, buy a turbonet adapter from 9thtee.com and install it per directions. You then put in a special code into the phone number field and your DirecTivo will use your Internet connection instead of a phone line.

    I don't know if that will work for PPV (I never buy PPV)

    If you have newer DirecTivo models, I believe you can get a USB/ethernet port
  • TiVo gets updates from satelitte signal. It must dial-in to home base to make sure your account is paid up. DirecTV wants you to have a phone line pulledin all the time becasue they want you yo oder PPV. You do not need the phone line at all.

    My tip for you to get updated beofe your NIC gets to you is to find a few super long phone cables and run them over to your neibors house. Buy him/her a 6 pack in exchange of using his/her phone for a few seconds. Toll free and all.

    Now you will have another 2 weeks be
  • You don't need to have the phone hookup. See the thread a couple of days ago about how the Super Bowl was so heavily TiVoed and the reporting of that information.

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