Lighting Control on Non-Windows Systems? 79
fgodfrey asks: "Being a computer geek during the day and a theater geek at night, I'm looking to combine the two and turn a non-Windows computer into a theater lighting console. All the products out there that I've seen (such as Martin's 'Light Jockey' and Rosco's 'Horizon') only seem to support Windows. I'm looking for a solution that works on Linux, or preferably, Mac OS X. It also would require a DMX converter (DMX being the standard in dimmer control protocols) that could plug into the computer. I'm looking to be able to run an entire theater show directly from the computer. Has anyone out there tried such a thing? Before anyone suggests X10, it is not really acceptable for theater lighting as it doesn't respond 'instantly' to commands and would require a ton of X10 boxes."
wow google... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:wow google... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:wow google... (Score:1)
Btw, why don't YOU offer something a little more constructive/helpful to this person since you're so "educated" and obviously a Mac user?
Re:wow google... (Score:1)
Re:wow google... (Score:1)
Re:wow google... (Score:2)
Hey, that's not fair... (Score:1, Troll)
So you'd have to go here [google.com] and scroll all the way down to #3.
Re:Hey, that's not fair... (Score:1)
ask slashdots (Score:1, Troll)
anyway, googleing for "
theater lighting linux -X10" got me this:
http://llg.cubic.org/dmx43/
Re:ask slashdots (Score:1)
Re:ask slashdots (Score:2)
semi-OT: remote controls for photo lamps? (Score:1)
I do studio photography as a semi-hobby. Actually I just learned it to do copy work and now want to do photography of sculpture and other 3-d objects.
I'm using 500W photo lamps (hot, not flash) and I use X10 appliance modules to turn them on and off remotely. I set multiple lamps to the same code and switch them all on and off at once, it's pretty handy.
But now I'm getting some much bigger lamps (1000W+).
Anybody know what I could use to switch them on and off l
Re:semi-OT: remote controls for photo lamps? (Score:1)
is recommended. You can use a small dimmer set
and dmx-512 controller like small bands use.
check ebay for dmx-512. even the crappy American DJ
controllers can fit your bill and make it very easy
to save and repeat lighting setups you like. I
wouldn't trade my light board for x-10 *ever*.
Re:semi-OT: remote controls for photo lamps? (Score:2)
Re:semi-OT: remote controls for photo lamps? (Score:1)
I assume you don't need real wireless access to all of this.
--
lds
Re:semi-OT: remote controls for photo lamps? (Score:3, Informative)
Instant control, no windows (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Instant control, no windows (Score:2)
Ugh...
Re:Instant control, no windows (Score:4, Informative)
On the topic, your best bet for control from linux might be a standard DMX light board with programable scene's and MIDI. I worked at a theater that had such a board in the smaller of the two theaters at the facility. It would allow you to select among the preprogrammed scenes, fade between them and the like via MIDI commands from a computer. You would still set your scenes up on the light board in the traditional manner but could then use the computer for running the cues. Such a solution might open up the possibilities a bit more for software. Hope this info is useful.
For macs try LanBox (Score:5, Informative)
Re:For macs try LanBox (Score:1)
Re:For macs try LanBox (Score:1)
Go Groucho!
Re:For macs try LanBox (Score:2, Informative)
There are already third parties who've built or are building their own
Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:5, Informative)
Some people like them, but I suspect that it's just a novelty, I like to have hands on control of my work. The problem with the pc solutions is that they limit you to making one change at a time, slowing down the creation of cues. Don't want to make cues, and just go with two scene preset or run with submasters, you're out of luck. Try to do a smooth manual fade, how smooth can you move a mouse.
There are only two times when I would look to a pc based solution; I use horizon and my laptop as a super remote focus unit, or when trying to create a show that can be run by just one person.
They just aren't worth the trouble, mousing around is just frustrating. The only time I would recomend this to someone is if they were concerned only with price, and had no intrest in user frendlyness.
Check out the Whole Hog PC [flyingpig.com] it's the only system I know of that you didin't mention in your list.
As for the linux thing, it would help these systems as far as stability goes. But I dobut if these systems will really catch on in highend use due to resistance from people like me.
These systems are basically just a traditional lighting controler minus all the special input hardware. This [etcconnect.com] is the system that we're replacing our light pallet 90 with, but notice that even though it is pc based it uses a full light board for input.
So in conclusion, not very useful, only good in a budget pinch, or when one of their special capabilitys (like remote operation, or sound macros) is needed. They do make a great remote focus unit though, much better than the little push button dealies, but that's not saying much.
Master Electrition WWU C.F.P.A. & Teatre Department.
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:2)
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:5, Interesting)
If you'll excuse an uninformed comment, it appears to me that your complaints aren't about PC-based control systems at all, but rather about the bad user interfaces on PC-based control systems.
In particular, it sounds like they make very heavy use of mouse-based control, when they should do as much as possible with the keyboard. With 100 keys, and tens of thousands of key combinations, a well-designed UI should allow you do do damned near anything, really quickly and easily, with just a simple keyboard.
The one exception, of course, is smooth changes. You asked: "how smooth can you move a mouse"? Actually, people can move a mouse *very* smoothly, over a relatively short distance side to side. But I suspect that the controls require you to slide up and down, since that seems to be the common orientation of sliders on window systems.
If side-to-side mouse movement doesn't do the trick, it seems to me that you could easily get some of the wheel and slider controls used on MIDI controllers and use those for smooth input -- that's exactly what they're designed for and nearly every PC can be connected to them.
To summarize: I suspect that a PC-based lighting control system could be excellent, if it had a UI that was constructed by someone who understood both UIs and theatre lighting.
OTOH, I don't know beans about either, so why listen to me?
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:2)
I've noticed that in many specalty applications the key benifit is the special user interface.
Pro Tools has USB based hardware plugins. I've used dedicated MIDI sequencer with a v
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:2, Informative)
Even using keyboard shortcuts limits you to changing one thing at a time, I have ten fingers, I can change ten sliders at once, plus these changes are nearley instant, changing with the keyboard, I have to either choose a level by typing i
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:1)
Somebody makes a USB knob (Score:2)
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:2)
Re:Stick with dedicated hardware. (Score:1)
Use a midi to dmx converter (Score:5, Informative)
Non-pc is even better (Score:5, Insightful)
Most lighting consoles use an embedded OS and proprietary software. Which is okay, because DMX lighting control takes very very little processing power. For those of you who don't know, DMX is the standardized interface/protocol for lighting control, and has been around for quite a while.
That being said, you don't really want something too complicated, as it adds too many points of failure. No matter what the OS you're running, you can't risk a crash/kernel panic before or during a show.
In addition, you don't NEED a sophisticated OS for lighting control. It's not rocket science, and even the weakest of computers can handle it without breaking a sweat.
The console I use [edionline.com] probably has less power than an Apple ][. It has no hard drive, and the only moving part is the floppy drive which can be used to move configurations between consoles. Plus, it's completely silent (which is important in this business). Also, inputting commands with a mouse and QWERTY keyboard is absolutely inefficent for lighting control especially if you're mixing on the fly. Having specific buttons and sliders for certain common tasks is a necessity. We also have a submaster board which gives you 120 sliders (one for each light). It is incredibly convienent.
If you've got thousands of lights and don't change your performance often, a PC-based solution is for you. Otherwise, a pre-built, proprietary solution is for you. Open isn't important. You could easily hack together a solution in linux, as DMX is incredibly easy to control... the true cost always lies in the hardware. You'll end up spending more using a PC based solution than a dedicated console.
Re:Non-pc is even better (Score:3, Informative)
[and in the venue of more specifically concert oriented consoles, the now venerable Leprachaun LP-* runs Win 95 (truly frightening, I k
Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
On the other hand, the Lehigh Millenium I'm in charge of now quite obviously runs Win95, and crashes just as much as you'd expect it to. When we first got the console, they hadn't disabled sleep mode and it would just shut itself off during shows.
Worst console ever!
--
Phil
Technical Director, RPI Players
http://players.union.rpi.edu/
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
--
Phil
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:1)
Re:Leprecon runs win95? (Score:2)
Back when they first introduced the LP3000. That's the only console they have that runs it, thankfully.
Yes, it was just as reliable as you can imagine any device running Win95 can be.
BTW, the LP-500, LP-600, and L
Try this! (Score:3, Interesting)
SD
speaking of C libraries... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Try this! (Score:1, Funny)
emacs!
+1 Funny and Flamebait (Score:1)
High End's Whole Hog (Score:2)
MIDI keyboard interface (Score:1, Interesting)
GPL'd Solution (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why PC? (Score:3, Interesting)
I think you are thinking on the wrong level. Lighting control requires none of the features you speak of. The lighting control system I use at work is a custom pII system (designed for stability and has the lighting specific ports added) that is connected to a monitor and a board with lots of sliders, buttons, and a wheel. There is nothing intricate displayed on the monitor, its most common use is displaying what is basically a screen full of numbers (looks
Re:Why PC? (Score:2)
That would explain why it says: "by ottothecow (600101)".
I thought I was on slashdot, not amazon.com. Oh no!
Re:Why PC? (Score:2)
Re:Why PC? (Score:4, Funny)
This is akin to saying "the fire hydrant's extra boggle makes it better than a giraffe."
Hey O'Reilly... (Score:1, Funny)
Look for a real board (Score:2, Interesting)
Back in my old high school, my last year in drama (SR year) we got a hold of a light board that accepted programming from a serial pc. We used a lunchbox 286 with a monochrome screen non productionally. When it came down to the real production we just used the boards programmable scenes or winged it ourselves. I cant remember the unit brand we used but i
MIDI? (Score:2, Insightful)
Pros/Cons (Score:2, Interesting)
There has been one case over the years, where the PC based solution was s
X10 Sucks (Score:4, Insightful)
X10 really sucks. I've been slowly forcing myself to come to grips with the fact ever since setting up an X10 controller. Among the things wrong with it:
* X10 does not mandate that devices respond to any kind of "ping" or "broadcast". If you misconfigure something, it's annoying to figure out what the addresses of everything are.
* X10 transfers data extremely slowly, giving the high latency that irritates people so much. I realize that fancy signal analysis may cost more, but I've very dubious that the incredibly slow trickle of bits is required.
* X10 as a parotocol is a bit of a hack, and the extensions to it are awful -- for example, my SmartHome light fixture doesn't even support the standard dimming commands -- it uses its own.
* X10 devices frequently do not support a "request status" command. IMO, that should be a mandatory feature of a protocol such as this.
* X10 isn't even all that inexpensive, which one would expect, given its extreme technical limitations.
Re:X10 Sucks (Score:2)
Unfortunately, every module which has the ability to broadcast drains the signal strength on the line. I'm not sure why, but it's definitely so. This means that making each module two-way would severely limit the number you could have.
Re:X10 Sucks (Score:2)
It may be that the currently popular design for two-way devices does this, but that's about as far as I'd be willing to buy into.
Re:X10 Sucks (Score:2)
I know, it sounds weird. But I think it's a more fundamental protocol design problem -- otherwise, *someone* would make modules that don't have this problem. I'm pretty sure SmartHome (makes cool stuff, quality control problems aside) would if they could -- their whole gimmick is selling more advanced X10 modules. Instead, check out this ad copy from one of their switches [smarthome.com]:
Check out... (Score:1, Redundant)
You can't... (Score:1, Funny)
I know what you mean.... (Score:1)
I was talking to a guy from High End [highend.com] at LDI last year, and was asking him if they were going to make a Hog PC for Mac OS X since the Hog console [flyingpig.com] is PPC based now, and he said that they were working on it. Who kno
Remote control? (Score:2)
Re:Remote control? (Score:2)
Any budget: Car-Tell [cartell.com] vehicle detection + HAI OmniPro controller [homeauto.com] + hardwired ALC [homeauto.com] lighting.
Low budget: X10 floodlights [smarthome.com] set to turn on X10-compatible switches [homeautomationnet.com] when motion is detected after dusk.
Keep an eye out for z-wave (Score:2)
re: Lighting Control on Non-Windows Systems? (Score:1)
dmx ethernet bridge (Score:1)