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Caldera Linux Business

Looking to Move from EV1? 93

Posted by Cliff from the avoiding-the-diSCOrd dept.
IgD asks: "Our small company has been a customer of EV1 for well over a year. We have a single dedicated server (a Red Hat box) and pay about $150/month. We get about 400 gigabytes per month for our bandwidth limit. Up until the SCO fiasco, we had been generally pleased with EV1. For obvious reasons we decided to move on. We didn't make the decision lightly. Migrating our server is going to result in a terrible inconvenience. The subject of EV1 and SCO has been covered in multiple articles here on Slashdot. Many have discussed moving to other providers such as ServerMatrix.com and ServerBeach.com. Dear Slashdot, where should we take our business?"
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Looking to Move from EV1? More

Looking to Move from EV1?

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  • Typical Reply (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Oriumpor ( 446718 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @06:49PM (#8514843) Homepage Journal
    I don't work for (X company) but I believe that (X company) is much better than (Y company) because they provide (X service) where (Y company) is lacking however blah blah blah.

    If you dislike what EV1 did, then castigate them as a paying customer. Honestly a boycott of their hosting services sounds rather brash, especially with all the nightmares I have heard from people who screw it up. Ev1 to their credit had a long list of SATISFIED customers, who are now "reluctantly deciding" to leave. It wouldn't be a choice in my eyes, I hate SCO but they already got their money.
    • Couldn't agree more. As an EV1 customer, I'm not happy about them supporting the SCO fear mongers, but will I move my servers because of it? NO. The servers work...I get great support...I get plenty of bandwidth. Why would I trade that for a nightmare of moving software, data, DNS, etc.

      I'll voice my disappointment at their actions, but I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

      • And this sends what message? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @06:59PM (#8514931) Journal
        I can just see this at board meetings:

        Underling: "Oh yeah we got a lot of complaints about our decision to do X"

        CEO: "Are they leaving? Refusing to pay? Looking at alternatives?"

        Underling: "No"

        CEO: "Then stop wasting my time".

        Voting with your wallet. You are voting in favor. I can't really see any differently. Sending emails to them is like saying you hate bush but still vote for him. Your opinion don't count. Granted neither does mine as I am not a customer at all :)

      • Re:Typical Reply (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Rick the Red ( 307103 ) <Rick.The.Red@nOsPaM.gmail.com> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:03PM (#8514970) Journal
        EV1 paid 'protection' money to extortionists. Now the other extortionists will ooze out from under their rocks and try to hit up EV1 for a quick buck. Plus, protection money is never a one-time payment. Before long EV1 will have to raise their rates, either to cover this ever-increasing cost or to hire lawyers -- or both.

        BTW, when you voiced your disappointment, what was EV1's reply?

    • there are people who think it sucks [ev1-sucks.com].

      I've never used them, though how many know they're rackshack anyways..? and that they host dozens of lil guys selling out service?

    • Re:Typical Reply (Score:5, Insightful)

      by El ( 94934 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:10PM (#8515054)
      No, a boycott of their services is totally appropriate. Nothing gets a companies attention faster than a loss on their bottom line. Having the few companies for whom this is an important issue change vendors sends a clear and need message to others contemplating taking the easy way out and giving in to SCO's extortion demands. Ultimately everybody is worse off whenever anybody gives in, since it sends a message to criminals that extortion, kidnapping, terrorism, etc. actually works as a business model -- it wouldn't if all victims had the courage to fight for what is right.

      • Re:Typical Reply (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Kvorg ( 21076 )
        There is a very clear moral issue behind this: if you are certain SCO is blackmailing and their claims are void, then this company did not do their job and they invested their money in SCO, supporting further harrasing of free software and free software users.

        So, if they think they should fund harassing GNU/Linux users, should they do that with your money?
        • If they think that Open Source is the work of dirty commie hippie pinko fags bent on destroying the capitalist enterprise system, they would do much better to give their money directly to SCO and Microsoft rather than to EV1.
          • *tongue-in-cheek* Hey, now that is hate speak! I don't have any problem with anyone being dirty, hippies are ok with me, and being a commie is your political freedom (chasing commies, however, should be impossible in any democracy, since it prevents others from political freedom and freedom of speach by sticking them in jail for nothing. J. E. Hoover should be prosecuted, even postmortem).

            But being stupid, or, even worse, consciously using money to prevent people doing good things, is evil. I don't found e
    • If EV1 really was concerned about customer upset (and they've claimed that they were, and thought that it was minor), they could easily have asked for feedback. They closed the deal without letting any of their customers have a chance to give them feedback. I realize that they're now between a rock and a hard place, and that sucks, but ultimately they made the mistake -- some people just don't want their fees going in part to SCO to help attack Linux. I'd say that's a reasonable point of irritation.

      EV1

  • Sago Networks (Score:3, Informative)

    by NicoNet ( 466227 ) <CNicodemusSD@NicoNet2k.com> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @06:51PM (#8514858) Homepage Journal
    Sago Networks [sagonet.com]
    750GB transfer a month 1.8ghz Celeron just $99/month, no set up fee. I've been using them for a few months now, no problems.

    --
    Free Linux Shells
    NicoNet 2000 [niconet2k.com]

  • how about any host that donates space to oss? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by avi33 ( 116048 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @06:52PM (#8514861) Homepage
    Shouldn't be hard, pick a open issues site and see who hosts them? That's part of the reason some of them do it, for exposure, good karma, brand awareness, etc.

  • Sometimes your own ISP is an option (Score:3, Informative)

    by dacarr ( 562277 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:01PM (#8514950) Homepage Journal
    Depending on cost and options, your own net.provider might be an option. See what they have to offer.

    Granted, that (shill) Speakeasy (/shill) offers it....

  • Would love to run my own Webserver (Score:3, Interesting)

    by justanyone ( 308934 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:09PM (#8515029) Homepage Journal
    I know there's lots of fellow geeks who could do blindfold narration on how to make my home PC into a global webserver and thus save my $6/month webhosting fee.

    The trouble is, the villanous but typical corporate curmudgeon Comcast is my ISP. They have in their rules that I'm not to run a webserver from my home. This is so they can provide max bandwidth to residential customers and charge a flat fee.

    I understand this (though I don't like it), but I am beholden to them because they are the only viable option. Yah, there are others but they're more expensive than $45/month for 1.5 mbps.

    It seems like the only thing stopping you from running your own webserver is the ISP, since the hardware could run from a rack in your basement.

    What I'm wondering is, is there another option? How much does Comcast charge, or any other DSL provider charge, for a 'business' connection that allows for running a webserver, not just surfing the web?

    It really is a rip-off here, and I'm wondering if there's enough competition yet to allow for the minimization of these charges? The last time I checked about 2 years ago, Ameritech wanted $2000/month for a T1 to my residence, plus installation charges. That's kind of high (especially vs. $45/month for the same technical bandwidth, never mind sharing with neighbors). I'm 'just browsing', which uses lots less than T1 on average, a random company or personal webserver might use only half a T1 on average, but would like the reduced time-to-render of T1 versus dialup speed...

    -- Kevin J. Rice
    • Ah, that's the Catch-22. You must have a business account to use VPN on Comcast, but they don't offer business accounts. So we just VPN into work from home anyway. If Comcast ever catchs us, we'll sue their butts in Small Claims court, where they probably won't even show up (but if they do it would be interesting to hear their explanation). How in Hell can they enforce a Catch-22 clause? Or, more to the point, how in Small Claims Court can they enforce it?

      • This isn't a Catch-22. It's Comcast's making a prohibition and your breaking your word. You signed a contract where they said "Don't do this unless we provide another way." In your market, they don't provide another way. So it's quite simple: Use VPN, and you're breaking your ToS. Comcast is being the good guy by not blocking your VPN connections outright and turning a blind eye to your blatant violation.

        • I never broke my word. My contract is with AT&T Broadband, not Comcast. Comcast changed the terms of service when they bought AT&T, but I never agreed to the change. This isn't the only thing they changed, either -- they lowered the storage for our web pages from 60Meg to 25Meg and they replaced our fixed IP address with DHCP. I have a signed contract, so they can't get away with that "you agreed to the change by continuing to use the service" crap, either. Maybe that's why they haven't "enforced" t
          • My contract is with AT&T Broadband, not Comcast. Comcast changed the terms of service when they bought AT&T, but I never agreed to the change

            Two things wrong with this:
            1. There is a legal term for this, Novation, which means that one company assumes the debts and obligations of the company they purchase. Thus corporate mergers can continue to happen without having to renegotiate all sorts of contracts. IANAL, but I work for BigBank Corp, just purchased by AnotherBigerBankCorp, and I heard this te

    • Your local telco should be able to provide you with a T1 for roughly $600-700 per month, although it is not uncommon to see them priced at $1,000-1,500. Resellers can sometimes drop below that. Of course, your initial cost for equipment will probably run your first month into the thousands, so a T1 might not be the best option.

      I have several clients who own and operate their own web servers using nothing more complicated than an SDSL line, a router, and a dedicated Mac or PC. (DO NOT plan on using your

    • You can't run a webserver through Comcast because your upload speed is a tiny fraction of the 1.5Mbps download speed. You can't serve data fast enough.
    • Bellsouth ADSL doesn't prohibit using your connection for serving. Neither does Speakeasy if you're lucky and can get it (I can't, but I'd love to). Granted, you only get 256Kb/s upload on Bellsouth's DSL, but that's enough for a tiny website. The only prohibition I know of is that they won't let you run your own outgoing mail server, instead you have to forward to their mail servers.
    • The big thing is that the bandwidth providing companies are generally trying to segregate the mostly-downloading occasional-access consumers and the server folks. This way, they can fit more people into the same amount of bandwidth.

      I get 1.5/786 from Speakeasy.net for $69/mo, with no crap. Nice folks, can't say anything wrong about them. It's a consumer grade connection with consumer grade quality of service, but I can do whatever the heck I want (excepting being a script kiddie, of course) and not have
      • That's where you get reasonable connections, not through your cable provider, who has always done nothing but consumer-grade products.

        Until you get RoadRunner Business Class. I've called them at 3 am EST and got the local support team. Since they have stopped giving me garbage Cisco routers (Cisco makes the worst crap ever, but that's another story), I haven't had a loss of connection in 3 months now.

        I don't know how the other cable providers fare, as I've never lived in another providers area. I've n
        • I live in Comcast area. There's no "Business Class" with Comcast. There wasn't with AT&T@Home or AT&T Broadband, who preceeded Commie-cast. Besides, I get Speakeasy, which is, as you said, even better.

          The way I see it is that I hate both Ma Bell and the Cable companies, but Ma Bell has a network that, excepting the random natural disaster, just plain works because for the past 50 years, a person who can't call 911 when they need to is generally on their way to picking up their halo and etherial w
    • Unless you want to be on-call 24 hours a day for the life of your basement webhosting business, I think you better let professionals handle it. After all, half the point of using someone like EV1 is to have someone else fix things when they break.
    • Speakeasy offers it (I pay around $60/mo for 2 static, n email addresses, 1.5/256, and them acting as NS2 for up to five domains as well as a shell account and a roving dialup), but you're best behooved to get a good SDSL or a fractional T1 for the purpose. ADSL has two snags - upload at a fraction of your download speed (anywhere from 25-50% of it), and the detail that when your upload speed is capped, your download speed is reduced to something a little slower than a TDD.
    • What on earth is everyone in this thread talking about?

      The only issue I ever had with my webserver under comcast was when Code Red went around, they had port 80 to ALL customers disabled for a couple weeks. After two weeks, it hadn't let up, I called up customer service and said "hey my port 80 is still blocked." they said "oops, sorry about that." and fixed it.

      Last time I glanced at AUPs, there was nothing stating that you couldn't run services, so long as you did not run services for COMMERCIAL PURPOSE
  • i would move my site [superporn.org] hosted at EV1 to ServerBeach but they don't allow adult content.
  • I may be self adversiting, but we offer excellent service and deals for people who want to have dedicated servers or have VPS server. So..give it a spin and I think you might like it.

    Plus, I work there as Head Tech and we have excellent crew there. Come on over. :)

    BTW...Don't DoS us. :)
  • ColoGuys [cologuys.com] have treated me well. I have a 1U server running there for $200 for 1mbit and no usage limit. Unfortunately, I signed at a bad time :( The price is now $100 for 1U/1mbit and $250 for 1U/5mbit. I've had.. one outage, I think, and was able to reach their support people quickly, so I'm pretty happy. They also provide dedicated servers if you don't want to ship them your own. I admit, I don't use much bandwidth per month, so I dont know if my experience can be related to yours in any way at all.

  • ServerMatrix.com (Score:3, Informative)

    by xheliox ( 199548 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @07:31PM (#8515253) Homepage
    We moved to ServerMatrix.com after the EV1/SCO fiasco. :) So far so good. We're paying exactly what we were at EV1, but we get more bang for our buck -- including more bandwidth and a better processor.

    They are very quick to respond to trouble tickets and their staff seems quite friendly. They even offer cross connects if you rent more than one server, which is something I don't believe EV1 ever did. We looked at ServerBeach, but they seem much more expensive and their support policy was a turn off.

    I'm glad to see so many others are leaving EV1. To some it seems hasty, but at the end of the day it's just a matter of principle.

  • ServerMatrix and others... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Yert ( 25874 )
    I recently moved from ServerMatrix's parent company, The Planet, because of their poor customer service and new billing software, which refused to take my credit card. Interland [interland.com] didn't have a problem with my card, and customer service has been great so far. They have "self-managed" servers for $69/mo, with 500 GB of transfer, running RH9. Cologuys was mentioned in a previous post for a colo solution, and I used to work for another company that had a cage in the same datacenter, Colo4Dallas [colo4dallas.com], which isn't a
  • I struggled with this for quite a while until our little company went with a dedicated @ http://www.server4you.com/us/ we have a small hosting company, a few e-commerce sites and more and have never had any issues. One planned network outage and one unplanned in 6 months time.

    BUT Setup took weeks, maybe a month. They simply had way more orders than they could handle @ $49/month. Setup is $149.

    Drop me an e-mail if I can answer more questions, going to a new host is always scary. If someone has found a bett
  • If it helps at all.

    I'm currently with serverbeach (have been basically since they started), they provide a good product, though one thing that I don't like is their inflexibility, if you need additional resources you can't get it.

    As I will be needing this flexibility I will be moving to Server Matrix.

    I had been looking at EV1 though clearly their decision lost me as a customer.
  • sco has been suing people it has contracts with. in one of the first post-ibm lawsuit investor conference calls i heard a sco exec say that they would be "enforcing their contracts."

    have ev1 customers ended up entering a contract with sco? has ev1's license purchase actually made their customers more likely to be sued?

    if i was an ev1 customer i would get my contract details from ev1 and i'd consult my attorney. in addition i'd request *written* clarification from ev1 on my *specific* contract to descri
    • have ev1 customers ended up entering a contract with sco? has ev1's license purchase actually made their customers more likely to be sued?

      There are reasons why one might not want to support EV1 now that they've bought licenses from SCO, but they do NOT include "EV1 clients are now more likely to be sued".

      SCO is trying to encourage as many large Linux-using companies as possible to purchase licenses. Do you think sueing the companies like EV1, who get suckered into paying up, will help this cause? No, n
  • Do yourself a favour: don't make that move unless you really know you want to.

    After all this has blown over and you're stuck on a lower spec host, you'll be wishing you could have just stuck it out for a while.

    More seriously, the two times I've changed web hosts have been the cause of more problems for me than anything else I've ever done online. I've had to fight all the way to get domains transferred properly from one company to another. and I've still got one that is in limbo that I'll probably never b
    • The scene of the landscape does change, so it's good to re-evaluate things every now and then. If there's a better deal than EV1 out there right now, it's worth trying out. [shrug]
    • How, again, did you lose your domains? Couldn't you just log into your account at your registrar and change the DNS settings, billing contact, etc?

  • I just opened up an account with 1and1.com. I have their Root Server II [1and1.com] package, which, for a $99 setup fee and $69 a month, I get:

    • Intel Pentium 4 2.4 GHz
    • 512 MB DDR RAM
    • 40 Gb HD
    • 500 GB bandwidth/month
    • Plesk 7.0 Control Panel with 100 domain license

    Response times are excellent, and their 24/7 tech support has been quite helpful and always very friendly.

    They have several dedicated packages [1and1.com], both managed and unmanaged.

    If you do decide to go with them, consider using my referal link [1and1.com].

    • Response times are excellent? For a moment I thought that you were absolutly high untill I realized you were talking about the tech support responses. 1and1 has the slowest admin control pannel this side of the world. I just spent 5 minutes just getting to my traffic statistics for today.

  • I have recently decided to go back to a colo I have used in the past and couldn't be happier. Was hosting it internally but costs for the internet connection started getting higher than I was willing to pay.

    IIC Internet [iicinternet.com] is the hosting company I currently use for dedicated servers. Since I have been doing business with them I couldn't be happier.

    • Transfer: 1500GB
    • CPU: P4 2.4gHz
    • MEM: 1GB
    • Disk: 60GB
    • Fee: $119/mo

    I looked around and these guys are the best I have found. After reading through the fine

  • EV1 is very similar to the date rape victim here. I don't think you should punish them by lost business. Instead, continue to support them and voice your frustration in writing. If you are happy with their service, but not happy with their policy, allow them to change before making this call.

    If I happened to use your Redhat server for something important to me, then I'd be mighty pissed if you moved providers for no real good reason.

    • Re:Blame the rape victim (Score:4, Insightful)

      by digitaltraveller ( 167469 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @10:38PM (#8516982) Homepage
      If EV1 is the rape victim, they are the rape victim that chose not to prosecute their rapist in court and gave the rapist $1Million to rape others.

      Principals and integrity may not mean much to many big companies, but often small businesses succeed by steering clear of companies without any 'humanity'.

      Supporting (even indirectly) a lawsuit against a gift economy that supports education and economic development (especially in poor countries) is in my judgement, inhuman.
  • For those who don't know where their hosting ultimately resides, ping your server to get the IP address, then use the IP Whois at DNSStuff [dnsstuff.com].
  • I'm one of those that prefer to host my own domains, so I can't recommend a specific hosting company - however - I can offer some advice on what to do when you decide to switch hosts.

    First, check out the suggestions by others, see if the allowed bandwidth-quotas are okay, what kind of platform they are running on, try to find out how many others are hosted at the same servers, what kind of software you may run on the server, and so forth. This is obvious stuff.

    Then, and this is important in my opinion, c

  • Whatever you do, check them with drbcheck [moensted.dk], to see if they are on a blacklist -- a lot of these places are notorious for hosting spammers and you wouldn't to blow a huge chunk of cash only to find that you can't get an e-mail out to most of the rest of the world..

  • I'm quite pleasd with ServerMatrix's service. Good uptime, fast network, low prices. Only miff is that their response times on trouble tickets is a bit low, but that's solved by 24/7 phone support via a 1-800 number. They have a 2-ring SLA, so you never wait on hold. Also if you live outside of the US/Canada, call them and leave your number and they'll call back on their dime.

    As for their offerings, my biggest complaint is that there's no reasonable way to add more bandwidth to a server. For a 69$/mth serv
  • I have heard lots of good things from co-workers and sysadmins...

    http://www.1and1.com

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