Tech Work in the Boonies? 178
ERIAMJH asks: "I am a tech working in the metro DC area and my wife wants/desires/requires/NEEDS to move out to a rural area. She can't stand the city/suburb living any longer, and I either go along or she goes without me. I've thought of the telecommute option, or maybe start a small business in an under-served area. I've been doing all kinds of tech work for the last 9 years. I've been slowly moving from the sys admin side to software development. I'm now working on prerequisites for a Computer Science MS. I work for a large defense contractor on a government contract. I would love to work on smaller projects with more individual input, but I worry I will end up working construction or plumbing. Have any of you moved from the hustle bustle of the big city to the peaceful countryside and actually found good work?"
How rural? (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're really isolated (ie. on a farm), then you will have more problems.
How rural?-Opportunities. (Score:4, Interesting)
Problem's can be made into opportunities. One of my former employers started out 20 years ago, in a barn, and now they're in the fortune 1000. With present day technology(2) and decent roads(1), a high/medium-tech manufacturing business can be started(3). With a local workforce with a good work ethic. Don't forget that the land is cheaper (taxes too), with room for expansion, unlike near a big city.
(1) Ideal is a small town near a majour highway.
(2) If you have a business acceptable internet connection? You can sell your product exclusively over the internet.
(3) One of the hardest things about starting a business, isn't the starting. But what do you start? Use your imagination. You could be the largest maker of coffee novelty mugs, or a board stuffer for a larger customer. Now with interest rates being low, this is the perfect time to start a business.
BTW Don't forget to investigate tele-work as an option in recruiting employees. R & D could be somewere out in the middle of nowere. OSS too.
BTW-II Above all else HAVE A BUSINESS PLAN! Even if you decide to not do it now. This will help you make that decision.
Re:How rural?-Opportunities. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:How rural?-Opportunities. (Score:2)
Re:How rural? (Score:2)
> you will have more problems.
Most farms are closer to one or more small towns than you are to your job in the city.
Re:How rural? (Score:2)
Many of the case studies in the report are towns under 10 000 people. At least 2 of the towns are under 2000. Is that rural enough for you?
Tele-Working (Score:4, Insightful)
Systems admin can mostly be done via a VPN connection (unless your VPN gateway is the problem requiring tech support), and code-cutting can be performed similarly.
You might need to check what network connectivity you can get from a non-urban or suburban location, but you should be able to find something reasonable.
Re:Tele-Working (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, like India.
Re:Tele-Working (Score:1)
Do you have any idea what time it is? (Score:2)
I'm a tech writer, and the latest problem in my profession is: how do you interview an engineer who's never awake at the same time as you are? I suppose that problem is doable (though I haven't actually had to do it yet) but I'd balk at dealing with a sysadmin on the other side of the planet.
Re:Tele-Working (Score:2, Insightful)
remote sysadmin, needs a triple trust
do you have it ?
and frankly
if it is your wife, then take your chance and do something what you like to do, since she is going to give you a back up
if it is you, and you still have to make a decision like this, then you have a problem which can't be solved by moving to another place
Re:I want a line item mod (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, think about it. Presumably, he loves his wife and wants her to be happy. For whatever reason, she can't be happy in their urban/suburban environment. So he wants to make a move to someplace where she will be happy.
Who's making the most money has nothing to do with it.
And before you say I don't know what I'm talking about.... I made a very similar decision last year. I make almost twice as much as my boyfriend. I was laid off, and the jobs I was seeing in my field were all out on the east coast. Problem is, moving out east would have made my boyfriend seriously unhappy. So I looked for other opportunities. I did find something local, and we're currently living happily ever after. If I'd just said "screw you, I make the big bucks, we'll go where my career says we need to go", I doubt we'd be together. I certainly wouldn't stay with someone with that attitude. A marriage (or any long term relationship) is a partnership, and the person with the biggest salary should not use that to call all the shots.
Re:I want a line item mod (Score:2)
Re:I want a line item mod (Score:2)
Freakin' "big city" types think it's the right coast and left coast, and nothing in between. Damn moron.
Re:I want a line item mod (Score:2)
Re:I want a line item mod (Score:2)
I live in southern California, where the measure of a woman's success is how good she looks in a bikini.
Regardless, I measure my success by how happy I am, and the is a combination of work and home life. And, lets be honest, a little bit of that bikini criteria. I have a PhD, lots of publications in my industry's literature, and a good salary... I think your post is the first ti
Re:Tele-Working (Score:2)
Re:Tele-Working (Score:2)
It might help if you move to rural Indiana, but conveniently mistype the address on your business cards and web site as "India".
But seriously, the cost of living in the boonies can be dramatically lower than some place like DC, giving you some of the same cost-savings advantages of outsourcing services overseas. I've tried (unsuccessfully so far, so may
Think Telecom. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Think Telecom. (Score:2)
Rural may even be better - I live in a suburban high speed black hole - the space between rural services that New Edge and others offer and a major city where everyone offers. There were at least 8 options for internet 5 miles north of me (a semi-rural outer ring but developing suburb, as well as
Re:Think Telecom. (Score:2)
Even someone in the "boonies". That means there are a ton of small to mid-sized telecom companys sprinkled throughout the "boonies".
It depends on how rural. Rural in the Southeast USA is being 30 minutes from the nearest real city (e.g. over 20,000 people and/or has a Wal-Mart). In this area, there really are not small to mid-sized telecom companies, unless you would consider the craptastic behemoth BellSouth to be small to mid-sized. Local ISPs do exist but they charge enough per month for many peopl
No! (Score:1, Funny)
Oh, wait...
Don't move to Kansas. (Score:3, Informative)
Complication: What about students? (Score:1)
Re:Complication: What about students? (Score:2)
Re:Complication: What about students? (Score:2)
Their out there... (Score:1)
Broadband ISP out in Bluemount, I noticed a Sys admin out in Hamilton....
There are large websites running out of Charlottesville.....
Depends on what and where... I've made a habit of finding the jobs out there... if only my wife would move with me!
Re:Their out there... (Score:3, Funny)
Just a thought.
Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:3, Informative)
Plus, life just seems to move a little slower/more relaxed out here than it does on the east coast.
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
My uncle was a tech instructor there for years until he retired.
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
I dunno about you, but the SLV is pretty damn rural by my estimation.
But here's a map of the Colorado Spring [mapquest.com]
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
Re:Lots of defense work in less urban areas (Score:2)
Telecommute (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Telecommute (Score:2)
How far are you from Goochland?
Re:Telecommute (Score:2)
commute (Score:1)
Like heights? (Score:3, Insightful)
Me too! (Score:5, Interesting)
And I've just given up. Toronto, while full of companies, just isn't hiring. I can't find an IT job
I've started looking around, trying to figure out what I'm going to do with life. I've debated giving up IT and moving to a small town. I've debated doing as some suggest, opening a small shop and dealing with residents. I've debated doing the telecommute thing or the long drive into a city. But anyway you look at it - life is going to change unless you have a golden horse shoe wedged up your arse. Moving into the boonies is going to change your career for good
Perhaps it's time to consider a new line of work. Someone suggested telecom
I understand what you're going through
good luck!
Re:Me too! (Score:2)
If you're already in Ontario, why don't you move to Kitchener-Waterloo, or failing that, Ottawa?
There are tons of tech companies in KW, and the rent's a hell of a lot cheaper than Toronto (I'm paying $810 and sharing
Re:Me too! (Score:2)
Rent's so expensive here, but everything's very convenient.
Re:Me too! (Score:2)
In case you didn't notice, the telecom industry imploded about the same time the dot-com industry did. The big companies, both network gear as well as network operators, have been shedding jobs ever since. The remaining Baby Bells, at least in the US, have been trying to sell their rural operations. There may be opportunities with some of the smaller compa
Expensive but lots of options (Score:1)
How flexible is she on location? (Score:3, Interesting)
Pork Barrel Politics (Score:2, Interesting)
I know when I lived in Flagstaff, AZ [flagstaff.com] there was a W.L. Gore Factory [gore.com] there that did a bunch of things, some of them "top secret". High paying, too.
Similar stories in Utah, Idaho, Missouri, and eastern Washington state.
Maybe it's just an "out west thing?"
Oh yeah, nuclear power plants (maybe any power plan
We did (Score:5, Informative)
After a few months, she found a job as a DBA about a 30-minute drive away (better than a Manhattan commute) and I've secured enough freelance contracts to keep us comfortable. We're not doing as well as the boom days, but we're making about double our pre-dot com incomes and I suspect we'd be doing no better had we stayed in the city.
All of my contracts so far have come directly or indirectly from contacts I made in the city. I have clients in NYC, France, California, and Brazil, but not one in New Hampshire.
I don't know what to offer by way of advice. I followed my wife to the city many years ago for love, and when I couldn't stand it any more, she followed me to the woods also for love. We didn't have a specific plan when we came here; I had faith that it would work out, and she had faith in me (most of the time
My wife and I are very different from each other. I can't really explain what makes us compatible. There's a wide gulf in culture, interest, experience, and opinion between us. By rights we should have split years ago, but somehow the differences keep it interesting rather than get in the way.
I'ma gettin' offtopic (Score:1)
We both have almost nothing in common, but we always find a way to share time and enjoy each other's company. I don't think I'd like someone that was a "perfect match" for me -- variety being the spice of life and all.....
And, as far as moving out of the city, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I hadn't racked up so much debt in the past 5-10 years. Oh well, you live and learn, eh?
Re:I'ma gettin' offtopic (Score:2)
Re:I'ma gettin' offtopic (Score:2)
The bottle. (Score:3, Insightful)
I have to comment on "I can't really explain what makes us compatible.". If you figure it out, you should bottle it and sell it. That would be the end of your money issues!
Re:The bottle. (Score:2)
2.5 Hours each way is 25 hours a week in cummuting alone. My commute is 50 minutes door to door (walk to local train, wait for train, ride train, walk from N. Station to office, take elevator to floor, enter office, look at clock)
However, she says that it's all worth it when she gets home and can see the stars and hear the wild life. I couldn
Re:The bottle. (Score:2)
Albuquerque, where I'm at currently, is still a small enough city that, if you drive more than 30 minutes in any direction on the freeway (and it conveniently has both major N/S and E/W ones) you're outside of town and pretty much in the middle of nowhere.
Before Abq, I lived in Seattle and there, too, you could find places that were plenty rural (
Escape from the bottle! (Score:2)
I wasn't considering leaving Silicon Valley [pbs.org] when this discussion started. But now I'll have to give it some serious thought!
The only downside I see to living in New Mexico is that when you travel to the rest of the country, you keep having to explain to geographical ignoramuses that you're not a furrener. I believe that's why New Mexico is the only state that puts "USA" on its lice
Re:Escape from the bottle! (Score:2)
You couldn't get them to trade places?
Sorry, not funny. In fact, your town seems to have many of the same urban issues that motivated this discussion in the first place.
About those roaches. A little boric acid [about.com] can work wonders. I'll resist the temptation to offer suggestions on your other problem!
Re:The bottle. (Score:2)
Moving is not your problem (Score:4, Interesting)
If she wants to escape her current locale so badly that she's going to ditch you to leave, you have a marriage problem.
If anybody ever gave me an ultimatum requiring me to drop everything, abandon my livlihood and move hundreds of miles away, I'd be out the door before nightfall.
Marriage is a two way street. Take care of that problem before you move 1 foot.
Dangerous advice (Score:2)
It may not be that simple. From the facts presented, we don't really know how much she has sacrificed for him. Marriages is, as you say, a two way street. We don't know who has been doing the lion's share of the taking up to this point.
He needs to look in the mirror and ask himself (a) whether she's worth it, and (b) the effect that such a mo
Going both ways on a two way street (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting definition of "two way street". The guy's problem is to advance his career, the woman's is to make the sacrifices necessary for him to do so. How's your marriage, I wonder?
Couples often have to make difficult choices when one partner's needs conflict with those of the other. Does her problem with urban living rate with his problem f
Re:Going both ways on a two way street (Score:2)
This need to run by the poster's wife should be looked at very carefully. If she is running
Re:Going both ways on a two way street (Score:2)
Re:Going both ways on a two way street (Score:2)
Re:Moving is not your problem (Score:2)
As my suggestion, even a local college needs a CS professor. If you're gonna be in the CNY area, UC just lost their long-time dept. head!
Otherwise you can alw
Here's my experience. (Score:5, Interesting)
18 months ago, I moved 150 miles from my employer, which is a large state university in the state capital, to a rural town with 698 people (2000 census). I'm a unix admin, and I can do 95% of my work via ssh and screen over 56k modem. For that other 5% I drive into the office once a week to physiclaly handle machines, eat pizza with my peers, and try to stay somewhat in tune with what's going on.
While I haven't taken any local work (other than helping a neighboor retiree with his PC in return for his grandson mowing my lawn), I suspect I could drum up some work doing basic fixing of Wintel boxes. Heck, the owner of the wireless ISP provider the next town 5 miles over was needing someone of my skills, but I didn't jump on that (rural wages -- going down to $8/hr -- did not fit my lifestyle at the time).
I just recently picked up a half-time job (evenings) telecommunting to a place 500 miles away in another state. I wasn't even looking for a 2nd job -- it was a friend-of-a-friend kind of referral. I've never met -- and don't ever forsee meeting -- my co-wokers there in person. Nice. Easy extra money to facilitate my next move.
In a few months, I'll be moving 200 miles even further -- 20 miles from the nearest blacktop and 15 miles from the nearest utility pole. I'll be using satellite internet/phone from this location.
While researching the nearest satellite internet installer to the remote location, the owner of the dealership sounded very interested in having someone with my computer background available to him for regional installs (farms, ranches, etc. -- I live deep in the West).
The point of my rambling? Well, firstly, your current employer may be receptive to keeping you on from a remote location. Next, without even trying too hard, I found several good potential employment opportunities, even in my very rural area. If you put in the time and effort, I'm almost certain you can round up a living wage wherever you end up.
I guess all I'm trying to do is offer you hope, rather than specific advice. I feel your pain, as my wife sounds just like yours -- she can't stand living in a city or the 'burbs. If she can't have her chickens out on the lawn legally, she won't live there.
And if you find the slower rural lifestyle fulfilling, there's nothing shameful with things like construction or plumbing. Hell, the plumber out here can command more per hour than I can fixing PCs. There's even nothing wrong wth talking a significant pay-cut, if that's required. If your wife is worth keeping, she'll realize that the two of you can't (easily) maintain a big-city lifestyle in a rural area.
Good luck.
Re:Here's my experience. (Score:4, Insightful)
You may also want to take into account the fact that housing cost in rural area is often much lower, which in turn cut down your living expense. If you are one of those who pay an insane 500K$ mortgage to live in CA or NYC, this may make a world of difference.
Re:Here's my experience. (Score:2)
I had a plumber out here about a month ago and I footed a $690 bill for about 4 hours of work. Granted it was a shitty job to do (pun intended) but that's still well over $150 an hour. Even worse, when you need a plumber, you NEED a plumber. I'd also say he's pretty safe to assume his job won't be outsourced to India any time soon. There are licensing rules
Re:Here's my experience. (Score:4, Funny)
When your dog runs away and you can see him running for three weeks.
Define Boonies (Score:2)
What you really need to do is to redefine boonies.
I live in Kansas City, a decent sized (about 1 million in the metropolitan area) midwestern city. The nice thing about this city, as well as many others in the midwest is that it's not shoulder to shoulder with the next big city. What this gets you is some fairly large stretches of undeveloped area and small towns not more than 20 miles outside of the city limits. I have coworkers who live in these rural areas, and make the 20 - 40 minute commute every
Re:Define Boonies (Score:2)
I live 38 miles from downtown KC, and although I work at home now (PR/marketing with a graphic-designer spouse), I commuted into the city for a few years.
Kansas City has more lane-miles of highway per capita than any other metro area in the nation;
Re:Define Boonies (Score:2)
Pittsburgh has a similar situation... my wife and I live on a 56-acre farm that's only 30 minutes from downtown. Privacy, back to nature, and 10 minutes away from a Borders bookstore :-) The local tech economy is starting to come back into swing, and there's quite a bit of work outside of the pure tech field... Alcoa, USX, Mellon Bank, etc. Not to mention CMU, Pitt, an
Jobs everywhere, find them... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'll bet there is a newspaper serving nearly every area, and the printer isn't too far away... find them and apply, someone has to run their computers. Telephone was mentioned elsewhere, another good place to look.
You don't have to stay in computers. Could you sell tractors? Drive truck cross country? (You would rarely be home, but it is a common job for those who do live in rural areas which should tell you something) Do AI on cattle?
There is always commute. Telecommute jobs are hard to find. Get a VW TDI (anything with good gas milage), and move 1 hour drive from the city, and work non-peak hours. Won't work in California (or NY?) but most cities in between have plenty of land 1 hour away allowing you the best of both worlds. (Not to be confused with suburbs which are the worst of both worlds)
Last, re-evalutae your life. Do you really need as much income as you are making? lower your standard of living and you might find that waiter at the local cafe takes care of all your needs.
Re:Jobs everywhere, find them... (Score:2)
There is always commute. Telecommute jobs are hard to find. Get a VW TDI (anything with good gas milage), and move 1 hour drive from the city, and work non-peak hours. Won't work in California (or NY?)
NYC? It takes over an hour to drive through NYC, forget about getting away from it. An hour's drive from Manhattan would still leave you in a very dense "suburban" (maybe demi-urban would be a better term?) area.
Bad News (Score:2)
Why does your wife "need" to get away to a rural area? Is she crazy? Easily distracted? Do YOU want to live the rest of your life in the middle of nowhere? What the hell is that? You have a job, you're working. You probably enjoy going out once in a while at night. WTF is it w. moving to the "boonies?"
Re:unemployed (Score:2)
It's not so bad... (Score:2)
It's a nice big-fish-little-pond ego-boosting job.
I think as long as you are not too far from civilization (does Fresno count as civilized?) it's not bad. I have good job security, because few techies would probably want to live out this far.
I have done quite a few repair jobs after work, as
Look Around Warner Robins (Score:2, Interesting)
Telecommuting gigs - ITMoonlighter, RentACoder (Score:2)
Plumber (Score:2)
Scary.
DANGER, wil Robinson... (Score:2)
Don't limit your options... (Score:2)
Considering that
Define rural (again) (Score:4, Informative)
I work at a leading communications test equipment company [aeroflex.com] doing DSP, embedded software, and UI design in TCL/Tk. I get to play with 10 million gate FPGAs, 60MSample/second digitizers, microwave comms gear, and stuff that I am not allowed to talk about.
Check out our job offerings - you might just fit.
Now, just up the road (I35, to be exact) is Olathe, KS - a suburb of Kansas City, (KS|MO), wherein there are SEVERAL high-tech job centers.
Down the road is Oklahoma City - again, a city with a fair number of tech jobs, wherein one may live outside the city yet commute without too much difficulty.
Beleive it or not, not all tech development goes on on the coasts. Do a bit of research.
Plumbing?! (Score:2)
Hell, you'd make a damn good living as a plumber and maybe it's the change you need. See here. [slashdot.org]
-psy
Regional libraries can be a good job (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a nice lifestyle... the pay isn't that great compared to what you can make in urban areas, but the cost-of-living is much less and there's a certain amount of non-tangible rewards working for libraries.
Of course you could just move (Score:2)
Move to a college town (Score:2)
Several Hi-speed ISP's
The local cable co
The (shudder) university it dept.
And other stuff
Now, you aren't going to find a software development firm, but theres plenty of other stuff.
Medium sized city or college town (Score:2)
I used to live and work in Des Moines, Iowa and in Leavenworth, Kansas. I was a programmer and consultant in both places, and found the work interesting and mostly cutting edge, with some exceptions. If I didn't want to live in an urban / suburban school district, I could have moved a whole 10 miles out of town and gotten a nice farm with horses, a field, etc. Of course, horses require maintenance too, so beware of extra jobs you take on if you move to a "farm" and have 'pets' of cattle, goats, sh
Rural areas near DC (Score:2, Informative)
Calvert County (Score:2)
Now I'm 45 minutes to DC. From my door to the US Capitol. 38 if I speed a bit. Those commute times aren't much worse than Dulles to DC I should note.
For what it is worth, I bought a home here and a condo in DC for LESS than it would cost to buy a house in a good
Re:Calvert County (Score:2)
say hi to the Pagans.
One Big Software Company in the Boonies (Score:2)
Needless to say, they have a difficult time finding programmers willing to move to Monett
Rural Louisiana (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Rural Louisiana (Score:2)
wal-mart (Score:2)
Wal-Mart's HQ is in what many here will consider a rural area. They have a sizeable IT staff.
Re:wal-mart (Score:2)
They've got a Mercedes dealer there, though.
Ithaca NY (Score:2)
I live in the boonies (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Very specific advice for poster: Charlottesvill (Score:2)
Re:Good Work? (Score:2)
Looking to hire someone to help you out? I'm in Boston and would love to get the hell out of dodge!