Suggestions for an Ergonomic Mouse? 127
pawul13 asks: "I've seen lots of articles and suggestions on ergonomic keyboards (and I have the excellent kinesis version, which helps tremendously), but what about mice? I'm currently experiencing a lot of pain, but only in my 'mouse' wrist. I have a semi-ergo Logitech, but it's not doing it. Does anyone have suggestions for the best ergo mouse (Trackball, optical, whatever, it doesn't matter)?" There was a similar question from January, but it may have been too limited.
Right and left handed both (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Right and left handed both (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Right and left handed both (Score:2)
Re:Right and left handed both (Score:1)
Re:Right and left handed both (Score:3, Informative)
Second finger on middle/wheel
Third finger on right button
Takes time to get used to if you're used to 2-button mice, but this is simply the most natural way to hold it. This way you get access to all 3 buttons without moving any of the fingers at all! (except for up-down motion)
Well... (Score:5, Interesting)
Give it a shot.
Re:Well... (Score:3, Informative)
May i introduce to you, the Ergonomic Vertical Mouse [keytools-e...mics.co.uk]
Comes in USB too!
3M (Score:4, Informative)
http://www.3m.com/ergonomics/ergonomicmouse.jhtml [3m.com]
Comes in two size, small/medium and large.
I used one for a summer when I was an intern at SGI. It really reduces wrist pain, but its a bit "slower" and takes about 2 weeks to get used to it. Seems less precise than a regular mouse too.
A Froogle finds average price about $50.
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=EM500GPS-AM&b
Bobby
Joystick, yuck. (Score:2, Informative)
The 3M joystick mouse seemed like a good idea, but most of the people we had try it didn't like it. We have just started using the Evoluent Vertical Mouse [ergocube.com] and so far the feedback has been extremely positive.
Re:Well... (Score:1)
Re:Well... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Well... (Score:2, Informative)
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My recommendation is to go down to BestBuy or some other large store and check out a couple of them to see how they feel. I have pretty bad problems with carpal tunnel when I use a standa
Re:Well... (Score:2)
I will second the Trackball Explorer. It takes some getting used to, but there is no way I would ever use a thumb trackball again. Still pretty expensive to buy in the stores (~40 USD) but you can pick one up on Ebay for a good price if you catch it right.
Also, I don't use the same thing for work and home. I use the Trackball and work and a regular USB optical mouse at home just to give everything a break.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Doug
Trackman FX (Score:2)
Only downside is a lack of a scroll wheel, but I use the keyboard / arrow keys for most things like that.
Re:Well... (Score:2)
I have the Microsoft trackball that you linked to. It's well-designed, but poorly built. The ball, buttons and wheel are well-positioned, but there are lots of details that were done wrong. The sensor is in a little nook that is left open, making it a very effective dirt trap. At least once a day the thing stops working and I have to pop the ball out and clean that little nook. Usually it's just one barely-visible little fiber from clothing or carpet or something. The last trackball I had (logitech two-but
Re:Well... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Well... (Score:2)
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Re:Well... (Score:2, Informative)
Another option is to try a trackball. I have a microsoft Trackball explorer optical (think I got the name right), and that did my index fingers
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Think about it. You move two fingers instead of the whole arm (or 5 fingers for smaller mice, try moving less than that), and its actually more precise and faster. Counterstrike can be played faster with it for example... the momemtum of a mou
Re:Well... (Score:2)
Added bonus: Within a week, I found I had a much greater precision and control over the cursor with the trackball than I ever had with the mouse (at the time I switched, I had been using a mouse for ~4 years).
Since moving to PowerBooks as my primary platform about 5 years ago, I don't use a trackball much. But I still lov
One of those glove thingies from Minority Report (Score:2)
Re:One of those glove thingies from Minority Repor (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:One of those glove thingies from Minority Repor (Score:2, Informative)
Re:One of those glove thingies from Minority Repor (Score:1)
Trackball and Mouse - change often (Score:2, Interesting)
Still waiting for the thought-controlled input device, but then I guess that will just give you a headache instea
Handedness, too (Score:2)
'jfb
Have you considered a writing tablet? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Have you considered a writing tablet? (Score:2)
Re:Have you considered a writing tablet? (Score:2)
Daily Planet (Score:5, Interesting)
Basic idea: you reach past your number keys to get to the mouse, so moving to the other side reduces hand travel to get there. And anyone can adapt to the mouse on the other side, even without changing buttons... Try it, and you may not have to spend money to solve your problems.
Anyway...
Re:Daily Planet (Score:2)
I switched to using the puck lefty, normal desktop righty, no more pain. Hopefully that doesn't screw up my neural pathways too much.
Re:Daily Planet (Score:2)
As for a suggestion, I'd like to put the scrollwheel on the side so that it's controllable with the thumb, and make it a jog wheel so that there's no need to give it a whirl, move the controlling digit back into place, and repeat.
Re:Daily Planet (Score:2)
The other thing that helped was getting a keyboard tray that I could adjust to the right height. I'm short and using a keyboard on a desk means my hands are up
Re:Daily Planet (Score:2, Informative)
Plus, it gives you the added benfit of being able to laugh at anyone that trys to use your comp
Is a mouse really needed? (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, I agree with another poster that a large part of the problem is because of that silly numeric keypad wasting 6" of space past the right side of my keyboard. Might be worth finding a keyboard without that (course, they're really useful when typing numbers, but that's another matter).
I also suspect that a lot of extra effort is put into pressing , since it's so far away. I've actually adapted into pressing ^H by habit. But that doesn't always work: brings up browser history, etc. Also, if you accidentally type rm -rf / and mean to hit ^H but miss and hit ^J....
Re:Is a mouse really needed? (Score:2)
Sorry, forgot I was writing in HTML.
Re:Is a mouse really needed? (Score:2)
Re:Is a mouse really needed? (Score:2)
A good trackball (Score:2)
I really got into these when I was helping a parapelegic work out how to use his computer. He had pencils that were strapped to his hands to work with. A mouse was horrible for him to use, but a simple change to one of these trackballs worked great.
If you see any of these on e-bay with th
Re:A good trackball (Score:3, Informative)
Contour Designs Mouse (Score:2, Informative)
You can check them out here [contourdesign.com]
I know just the thing! (Score:2)
Re:I know just the thing! (Score:2)
I'll second that (Score:1)
I would also recommend getting that mouse, I still curse the day I sold mine (I got rid of all my equipment a few year
Re:I know just the thing! (Score:2)
It did take some getting used to though, because it doesn't feel like any other mouse out there.
Logitech Trackman Marble (Score:2)
Re:Logitech Trackman Marble (Score:2)
Re:Logitech Trackman Marble (Score:1)
I tried one of the newer ones (with the wheel in place of the center button) and did not find it nearly as comfortable. Gave it to my 6yr old daughter and she seems happy with it. Certainly likes it better than the mouse she had before.
Re:Logitech Trackman Marble (Score:2)
Re:Logitech Trackman Marble (Score:2)
Because some marketing puke at Logitech decided that no one used three buttons anyway, and so dropped it, but then introduced several new lines with five, six and seven buttons.
I hate scrollwheels, but I can understand why some people want them. "Click on the scrollbar? That's like so 90's!" But why can they make a mouse/trackball with a choice? Pop off the wheel and pop on a button!
ergo is bad for your wrist (Score:5, Interesting)
You'd be best off with the old amiga mouses or something: square. You'd end up shifting your hand from time to time since it's uncomfortable, in the long run it's more comforatble.
Re:ergo is bad for your wrist (Score:2, Interesting)
*bzzzzt* Wrong! That discomfort is a warning that you're doing damage to your body. By the time you get around to doing something about the pain, the damage is done.
Try a gel wrist pad (Score:2)
You want a full-size trackball (Score:2)
These are not necessarily easy to find at consumer electronics stores. What they carry are el-cheapo trackballs, which may have the word "ergonomic" on them and some funky curved design, but they're awful to use.
The ones we have are made by Mouse-Trak [mouse-trak.com] and look as ugly as hell, cost $150 each, but are a joy to use. They are used 24x7 and are in place on 8-CRT consoles, so they get heavily used and abused, and we send a few dozen back in each year to get r
Kensington Optical (Score:2)
IBM Trackpoint Keyboard (Score:2)
I too had a lot of wrist pain due to mousing, until I got a Thinkpad and started to use the trackpoint. These keyboards are also available for desktop machines. What I wonder is, will it work with a Mac?
http://www-306.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/documeRe:IBM Trackpoint Keyboard (Score:1)
Re:IBM Trackpoint Keyboard (Score:2)
What really cheeses me off lately is that I'd like to buy a laptop. I've got an IBM Thinkpad that I love, but it's getting long in the tooth. IBM and Dell are the only 2 that I've found so far that still have a trackpoint in their laptops.... IBM's too pricey, and I'm using a Dell laptop here at work and while it's nice, I don't like it that much...
How you use it (Score:5, Informative)
ergo mice (Score:1)
http://www.handshakemouse.com/index.htm
Are you sure it's the mouse? (Score:1)
Always been a fan of trackballs (Score:1, Offtopic)
Despite the fact that I have bad thumbs (several sprains while skateboarding in my youth), using a trackball has never caused fatigue.
Plus, I find the trackball better for gaming (UT2K4, etc).
Re:Always been a fan of trackballs (Score:3, Informative)
The actual link to the optical trakcball is here [microsoft.com].
When it was me... (Score:2)
For the mouse itself, I've had real good luck w. MS Optical mice, work mouse is Intellimouse Explorer 3.0, home mouse is 4.0 (side scroll wheel, very nice). Say what you will about MS software, they make/license a real nice mouse and keyb
a mouse pad with a wrist rest (Score:1)
P.S. I have been using just ordinary
Try silly putty (Score:2)
Get a symetric mouse of any kind. (Score:2)
One day you use the right hand, the other you use the left (make sure you change your mouse driver to the correct hand, that way your brain learns faster to use the mouse with the hand you are less comfortable with, i.e. dont use always the same mouse configuration, that will confuse you).
As other have commented, also change the device you use. One week use a mouse, another us
FingerWorks iGesture no-button touchpad (Score:4, Informative)
The FingerWorks iGesture [fingerworks.com] touchpad is a zero force, no button, standard USB interface mouse that has none of the annoying features of standard touchpads and is just as efficient as a standard mouse with none of the strain.
It uses different finger combinations to trigger different mouse functions such as left click, right click, drag, scroll wheel, and so on. It can sense which fingers you are using, and most importantly, it doesn't trigger mouse motion when you accidentally brush your hand against it because it can tell the difference between your fingers and your hand.
The iGesture pad is good enough to recommend even to people without wrist pain. But for anyone who actually is suffering physical strain from mouse use, it's almost a no-brainer.
(I have no relationship to FingerWorks except as a user of their products.)
three little letters... (Score:2)
What is it with this... (Score:3, Insightful)
However, I wonder if there isn't something more with CT/RSI. Why, for instance, do some people suffer from it, while others don't? For instance, I have never had (and here's hoping I don't ever have, from what I have read of the pain, it is HORRIBLE) any form of wrist or hand pain on a recurring, repeatable basis.
I have been using computers for almost 20 years now. If anything, I should be a case for "computer ailments". My first computer was a TRS-80 Color Computer 2 when I was 10 years old. I had it hooked up to a 19 inch color TV in my bedroom that I sat right in front of ("don't sit too close or you'll go blind" - I guess my parents didn't believe that applied with a computer - I used that TV as a *monitor*. MMM...32x16 black on green - ok, I'll admit, I am pretty nearsighted). From that time on I have pretty much sat in front of a computer of one sort or another coding.
Twenty plus years later here I am typing some more, and I haven't had any carpal flareups or anything like I have heard described. I have had minor pain in one wrist, that went away when I stopped - so I would stop, but that hasn't happened to me in months, if not over a year. It wasn't anything like the pain I hear described by sufferers of CT/RSI - so I think I just was tired, so I rested - seemed simple (or, maybe I did, and I did the right thing to stop?).
I have a wristrest in front of my keyboard at work, and at home I use a Model M (yay, clicky!)...
Is it me, am I lucky? Could it be a genetic predisposition for some folks? Are they doing something or working in a manner different from me that causes it? I will admit that I don't have a normal typing style, it is kinda "homegrown" over the years - is this the reason? Do people with CT/RSI who use keyboards tend to be those who practice real typing skills? Could these skills, being applied to a type of keyboard (that is, soft electronic, not mechanical) not in existence when the style of teaching was thought up (ie, back when typewriters were first being made), be the problem?
Re:What is it with this... (Score:2)
You are lucky. Though I find the Model M helps a lot myself, so your luck is both that your genetics are right, and you have found good equipment. I have both carpal tunnel, and a more generic wrist pain. Carpal tunnel isn't a problem I get from computer (though others do), but rather physical labor. (Good equipment helps there too, my $100 hammer really makes the pain go away!) From the computer I get wrist pain, which I have traced to using the mouse for long periods. I've learned to switch hands
Re:What is it with this... (Score:1)
Re:What is it with this... (Score:2)
At work, I use an AST keyboard (probably the "next best" keyboard I have used and liked because of it's "feel"), but with the tabs up, and a wrist rest - I find that if I put the tabs down, it feels "wrong"...
Hmm - maybe I will try with the tabs up again, and see if things are really as bad as I think...
Re:What is it with this... (Score:2, Interesting)
after the surgery on my right, relates to whether the movement of a joint is a full extension/contraction cycle
or a shorter "snubbed" movement. The shorter motion can cause problems by failing to distribute the sinovial fluid which
lubricates joints and tendons, along the full length of a passage such as the Carpal Tunnel which carries the Radial Nerve
through the wrist.
Short motion>incomplete lu
Consider the keyboard. (Score:2)
My keyboard of choice is the Goldtouch [goldtouch.com]. I actually didn't switch to it for its ergonomic features, though these are very good. But my problem wasn't RSI, it was a tendency to hit the wrong cursor key. I saw a Goldtouch and was impressed by the unusual (but
Vertical Mouse (Score:2, Informative)
Gujju
Thumbwheel (Score:2)
I consider the fact that it's difficult
You are unique! (Score:5, Informative)
There are more than 100 different medical problems that the lower arm/wrist/hands can have. What will solve one problem may make a different one worse. You have to find what works for you. The ideas that others have poster may help. If your case is bad enough a good doctor might be able to help too.
Some things that might help (in addition to what others have said): learn piano. Seriously, a good piano teacher will sit over you with a ruler and give you a good whack every time your poster gets off, take these habits to the computer and you better off. Note too that musicans have been facing problems like this for years (hundreds if not thousands), so if after getting the advice of your piano teacher it doesn't go away, you they can often recommend doctors who know more about this type of problem than the average doctor.
Get a big trackball and place it on the floor. Rig up some foot pedals (at least for the left button...), and train your feet to do the work. You will still need a mouse for precision work, but this can take a lot of load off your hands.
Stretch. Search the web and you will come up with a bunch of hand stretches. I find they help me, they might help you.
Get in shape. Exercise can help in surprising ways, so if you are not in shape do it.
Take a vacation. When my wrist problems got the worst, nothing was helping. After a week in the backcountry in a canoe I came back with no pain. All those tricks I was doing before prevented the problems from coming back. I needed time to heal though before they would work.
Remember, nobody here is a medical doctor. Seek professional help if you need it. If things are getting worse stop.
Re:You are unique! (Score:3, Informative)
I caused my injury doing mouse-intensive work on
Razer Boomslang (Score:2)
- It has a very low profile
- It has extremely high resolution, so I hardly have to move my hand to use it accurately.
try getting a Marble mouse from logitech (Score:1)
Also and in combination with the marble i make a lot of use of my Spaceball-5000 and not only in 3d designing, most apps support at least the scroll and zoomfunction
Kensington Expert mouse (Score:2)
They are large, but extremely comfortable use (possibly because it's large). Cost is around $100, and worth every penny.
I also use a little gel wrist cushion in front of it (it comes with a leatherette thing but it's not as g
Re:Kensington Expert mouse (Score:2)
Replacement for Logitech TrackMan Marble FX? (Score:2)
Any ideas?
Re:Replacement for Logitech TrackMan Marble FX? (Score:2)
While this will make me sound like a shill for Kensington given that I was talking up their keyboard earlier today on a different thread, they have a trackball called the "Orbit" that's very similar to Logitech's Marble Mouse. It's not quite the same thing as the TrackMan, but it's worth looking at -- I bought one as a replacement for a Marble Mouse (which I've always liked) and have found it slightly superior to Logitech's. It does have the potential drawback that it only has two buttons, though. (Windows
Re:Replacement for Logitech TrackMan Marble FX? (Score:2)
Looks like the Cordless Optical TrackMan is more my style. I'll have to try one out at a local computer store.
Ratpoison and Contour (Score:1)
My solution:
A Kinesis keyboard and ratpoison (the wm).
After about a month my wrists improved, I added a contour (perfit) mouse (got 2 a hamfest for $1.)
big hands (Score:1)
250 mm finger tip to base of palm
most mice feel to small
I had a Kingston mouce that was big , but my fingers were made sore by button use.
can't remember it's model
Trackpoint keyboard (Score:2)
Not only has my wrist pain gone away, but my coworkers find my lack of a mouse so frustrating that they stay the hell awa
Re:Trackpoint keyboard (Score:2)
Four points. (Score:2)
2- Just like ergonomic keyboards, having your palms facing inward is best. Most mice [even the newer logitechs] are flat. Not good for the wrists.
3- Big mice are better. They keep you from closing your palm, causing stress there, and generally from resting your wrist on the table, causing stress as you move left and ri
Dual Kensington Turbo Mouse Pro _Wireless_ (Score:2)
Try this on for size. Buy two (yes expensive) Turbo Pro's -- Wireless variety. Set them both for the same channel. It has 4 main buttons and a wheel that does dual duty as a middle mouse button. I set lower right button for select and drag, and lower left for double click, upper left and right as normal. It has 6 programmable buttons for anything you want.
The secret is the wireless option. Since both mice are on the same channel, you can switch hands to whichever is more convenient -
Penny+Giles Trackball (Score:2, Interesting)
suggestions (Score:2)
Beware of weight. I once tried a mouse that was in a very good-fitting ergonomic shape and even came in multiple sizes. It fit perfectly into my relax
Gel! (Score:2, Interesting)
I guess you should be able to pick up a gel mouse
Ergonomic?! (Score:2, Insightful)
*sigh*
Quill Mouse (Score:2)