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Rectifying Social Security Identity Theft? 87

Posted by Cliff from the retaking-your-identity dept.
VxSote asks: "A 19 year old kid tried to buy a car only to find out his SSN had been stolen and used by a terrorist. Now, after talking to various government entities, he is no closer to having his (presumably) good name cleared. So this situation begs the question: how exactly does one go about fixing such a mess?"
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Rectifying Social Security Identity Theft? More

Rectifying Social Security Identity Theft?

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  • MY solution (Score:5, Funny)

    by schnits0r ( 633893 ) <nathannd@@@sasktel...net> on Friday April 23, 2004 @08:51PM (#8956063) Homepage Journal
    Okay, my advice, first and foremost, and the most important thing is you have to watch your breathing. That is critical to shot follow through. I would recommend the prone position as it allows the firearm of your choice to be equally balenced, as well as providing enough room to breathe without interupting the accuracy of the shot. When you have aquired your target, gently squeeze the trigger, as if you pull it too hard, your firearm will move too drasticly and you will miss the target. I do recommend you go for accuracy, over grouping, unless you want to merely startle them, then grouping would be okay. If you take my advice, not just for this sort of thing, but for everything, I can almost garuntee you will have the upperhand in most situations. Good luck, Schnits0r

  • Canada (Score:4, Informative)

    by The Snowman ( 116231 ) * on Friday April 23, 2004 @08:53PM (#8956071)

    Try moving to Canada. Seriously. Once you get on those lists it is almost impossible to get off. The kid is lucky that the government told him he is on the list and not shipped off to Guantanamo already. Most people never know they are on a watch list. I hate to sound pessimistic but this is the truth.

    • Re: Or move to Europe (Score:5, Interesting)

      by anticypher ( 48312 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [rehpycitna]> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @01:26AM (#8957305) Homepage
      I know several Americans who finally gave up, and moved themselves to Europe to start a new life. After Canada, London and Paris are the most popular destinations for economic refugees from the US. The current US system makes it impossible to for victims to buy major items, like houses or cars. Regular tax audits suck out all your energy. It becomes impossible to take a job with an employer who only pays salary via direct deposit when you can never open another bank account. Not having a credit card means you can't do many things like internet shopping.

      A few years ago I was talking with some US consular folks at a party, and they have a separate category for ex-pats who had to leave the US because they could no longer lead normal lives after ID theft. They call them "Forced Economic Migrants" or something similar. In France and England, the number is in the tens of thousands. That's just the number of people who bothered to register with the local embassies.

      I have an American friend here in Belgium who had his US SSN abused more than 20 years ago. After a few years of fighting with the data reporting agencies, losing his house and all his bank accounts in the process, he gave up and moved here. The case officer at the SS administration told him he would have a better life if he gave up, cashed out, moved to another country and started his life over again. Since millions of people all over the world do this every year, it isn't that difficult, but it does really fsck up your life for a few years. A few years is better than the rest of your life. He claims he is much happier now, in a country with a working health care system and a real appreciation for beer.

      His ex-wife tried to move back to the US in 2000, at the height of the boom, more than 15 years with no credit history in the US. But after 6 months of fighting with the credit reporting companies over the old data which is supposed to be deleted after 10 years, she is back here and swears never to go back except to visit family.

      the AC

      • US consular folks . . . have a separate category for [American] ex-[patriates] who had to leave the US because they could no longer lead normal lives after ID theft. [US Consulate employees] call [these ex-patriates] "Forced Economic Migrants" or something similar. In France and England, the number is in the tens of thousands. That's just the number of people who bothered to register with the local embassies.

        This reads just as fiction does. I find these numbers (10's of thousands) very hard to be

        • I wondered about that, too. Even if the number is accurate, I wonder whether it includes everyone who has ever moved for that reason; in that case, it may include a considerable number of people from the McCarthy era who ended up under the thumb of the HUAC.

        • I find these numbers (10's of thousands) very hard to believe.

          I don't.

          There are hundreds of American expatriates living semi-permanently in Skopje, Macedonia. Macedonia is a fairly poor country with only a little over 2 million inhabitants and a smaller GDP than Omaha, Nebraska. But its economy is still largely cash-based, and if you have a job plus even a little savings (by Western standards) you can live there nicely for years.

          I don't know how many of these are economic refugees. But if it is 10%,

      • The case officer at the SS administration told him he would have a better life if he gave up, cashed out, moved to another country and started his life over again.

        Is there a way to sue Congress for writing such bad legislation and get awarded damages to buy things like cars in hard cash? Seriously, the SSN is artificial and is apparently causing real damage due to real negligence (allowing identity theft and then, saying, "[move] to another country and started his life over again"...that sucks really bad

  • Simple (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rick the Red ( 307103 ) <Rick.The.Red@nOsPaM.gmail.com> on Friday April 23, 2004 @08:53PM (#8956073) Journal
    Steal someone else's.

  • The first step... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lazyhound ( 542184 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @08:59PM (#8956112)
    ...is to post the number here, so we know who we're trying to help.

  • Just apply for a new SSN (Score:4, Interesting)

    by psyconaut ( 228947 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @08:59PM (#8956114)
    Seriously. It can be done.

    -psy
    • There are plenty of places in Dallas, Texas where you can get a 'new' SSN. However, I am not willing to said that said SSN will be valid. :->
      • That's right purchase someone elses social security number so you can make their life a nightmare when it comes to registering for the same services this guy wanted to.
        • It was an underhanded way of pointing out that the poor guy is screwed. Our goverment won't do much about the people handing out 'new' SSNs like candy.

          If they won't stop them, what makes you think that they will be able to help that guy?

          It fucking sucks.
    • It can be done but not in this type of situation - SSA does not issue new SSN's for identity theft.
    • Actually, I was almost -forced- to do this a few years ago.

      My father was in the military, stationed overseas, when I was born so there was some extra paperwork involved to make sure that I was recognized as a US citizen. My parents also had to get me a SSN in order to get me a passport (if you think passport pictures are ugly just wait until you see a baby's passport picture) so they could travel with me.

      Fast-forward 17 years to me applying for student aid for college. I get a nice letter (I forget if i
      • I had the *same* thing happen to me! I had better luck proving my citizenship, though. A copy of my (Italian) birth certificate, my naturalization papers, my social security card, and my passport (from when I was a baby), and *poof* everything was better.

        Oddly enough, I couldn't e-file my taxes for three or four years. Kept getting rejected for having bad data. Turns out the government thought that my birthday was four months later than it actually was (they entered a date in the wrong field).

  • Don't use SSN's ever. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Oriumpor ( 446718 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @09:05PM (#8956155) Homepage Journal
    Stop allowing companies, the federal, state and local governments to use your SSN for identification purposes, in any case when it doesn't match certain exemptions it MUST be optional. READ the back of your social security card, stay informed [uncg.edu] and if this isn't a case of a need to change [ssa.gov] your social security number, I don't know what is.
    • "Stop allowing companies, the federal, state and local governments to use your SSN for identification purposes."

      An admirable resolve, though not terribly realistic, is it? I'm as rah-rah as the next /.er, but your "solution" is more of a political stance than it is a working solution in day-to-day life.

      • Re:Don't use SSN's ever. (Score:4, Informative)

        by Oriumpor ( 446718 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @09:21PM (#8956261) Homepage Journal
        No, it's the law.

        Section 7 of Pub.L. 93-579 provided that:

        "(a)(1) It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual's refusal to disclose his social security account number.

        "(2) the [The] provisions of paragraph (1) f this subsection shall not apply with respect to--

        "(A) any disclosure which is required by Federal statute, or

        "(B) the disclosure of a social security number to any Federal, State, or local agency maintaining a system of records in existence and operating before January 1, 1975, if such disclosure was required under statute or regulation adopted prior to such date to verify the identity of an individual.

        "(b) Any Federal, State, or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it."

        • Re:Don't use SSN's ever. (Score:5, Interesting)

          by Detritus ( 11846 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @09:37PM (#8956340) Homepage
          Notice the gaping loopholes. It also doesn't protect you from private entities that want your SSN as a condition of doing business with them, such as landlords, employers, banks, etc.
          • If the parent had read the link, he would have seen that the exceptions to the rules are people who need your social security for it's intended purpose: a taxpayer identification number. Banks and employers need your taxpayer identification number for reporting purposes. And, if your landlord doesn't want to do business with you because you won't give your social, get 'em prosecuted for it. The link clearly states giving up a social security number must be voluntary.

            • If the parent had read the link,

              I'm assuming you're referring to the UNCG link, which is clearly discussing university policy. The university falls under both the federal and state government agency rules. (Federal because it's receiving US DofEd funding, and state because it's UNC, for pete's sake.) Note that the bit of law they quote at the bottom only applies to government agencies.

              And, if your landlord doesn't want to do business with you because you won't give your social, get 'em prosecuted for

    • READ the back of your social security card...

      And?

      I know what you are talking about - I have seen my parents' cards: The back used to say something to the effect of "Not for use as an identification number, under no circustances should you share this number with anyone other than the SSA".

      However, they dropped that (quietly) off the back of the cards a long time ago, even though the law is still in effect. Thus, many, many organizations, people, agencies, etc - are breaking federal law - AND NONE OF THEM CA

  • To set up his records straight (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 23, 2004 @09:11PM (#8956196)
    He would need to join the terrorist organization. It would be easier than update multiple government databases.

  • My identity was stolen on a Wells Fargo laptop. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Picass0 ( 147474 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @09:13PM (#8956210) Homepage Journal

    Recently Wells Fargo gave my Name, SSN, Address, Bank Account info, and other info about myself and my wife to a data miner who works in an office located behind a sports bar. The office of that contractor was burglarized, and a laptop was stolen containing the data on us and an undetermined number of people ranking in the thousands.

    The laptop was recovered after 30 days, found in the apartment of a known identity thief. I'm supposed to believe he never copied of shared the information. The laptop was located because it had AOL software on it. That laptop could have been penatrated even if it had never been stolen. Well Fargo information security at it's finest.

    All of my family's personal info in a nice, neat package for anyone to abuse. Not a fucking thing I can do about it beyond moving my business elsewhere. Which really doesn't solve the bigger problem, our personal and financial info drifting in the wind.
    • doesn't solve the bigger problem, our personal and financial info drifting in the wind.

      "The identity, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The credit core you need is in the wind..."

      -Adam
    • There *are* ways of dealing with this.
      First of all, when did he realize his number was being used. After that, he needs to report it to all the credit bureaus.

      As for the Wells Fargo stolen laptop -- try dealing with a stolen server with SSI numbers, dates of birth, medical records, etc of the U.S. Military. It has happened. (see --- http://www.triwest.com/announcemnt )

      This is something that is going to happen. Only by watching your own credit report can you deal with it and correct it. He needs to conta

  • Forget it - just buy yourself a new identity (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It is a lot easier.
  • Begging the question is a logical fallacy in which one presents an argument which assumes that the conclusion of the argument is true. For example, "God exists because the Bible says so, and the Bible is true because it is the word of God".

    This sort of bogus reasoning seems to have little to do with the topic in question. More likely the submitter should have said "raises the question", which in addition to being correct, only requires two additional keystrokes to type.

    This fact is raised every time t

  • The article says (Score:4, Funny)

    by Bob Cat - NYMPHS ( 313647 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @10:07PM (#8956479) Homepage
    "Allen did not get his new car."

    WTF? They couldn't figure out this kid was not a Yemeni terrorist? Note that they did not call the cops or FBI, they just refused to process his credit application.

    Can't let those terrists get their hands on those Chevy Cavaliers of mass destruction, can we?
  • Is he buying this car with SSI benefits? He's clearly too young to be using Social Security payments to pay for the vehicle.

    Why is any agency that would sell him a car allowed to require, or request, his Social Security Number?
    • If he plans on financing it, the SSN would be used to obtain a credit report. If he's paying cash, it's enough money to be a "reportable" transaction.

      • Okay, I realize that the credit agencies have to use *something* to uniquely identify people for credit check purposes, but is it necessary to use an SSN? I work in the health care industry where SSN is *usually* used to identify folks. Kaiser Permanente has already moved to using "health record ID" numbers; Blue Cross (the parent company of New Directions Behavioral Health [ndbh.com] -- my employer) is moving to erradicate the use of SSN's as primary identification of health records starting this fall.

        Why can't t

        • I think part of the reason y'all are moving away from using SSNs is because of federal privacy regulations (HIPPA, right?). The idea is to separate your medical records from the massive ammounts of data that are tied to your SSN.
          • Precisely. But what value is it, really, when there's probably at least one table in the insurer's database that has both the new identifier and the SSN. And don't forget that the MIB (Medical Information Bureau, the blacklist insurance companies used to avoid writing policies for unhealthy people) will likely remain indexed by SSN.
        • Because there is nothing else. The credit reporting agencies need a number that uniquely identifies you, always has uniquely identified you and always will uniquely identify you. (Give or take the odd identify thief, that is.) If there's another number that accomplishes that and that almost everyone, certainly anyone who has a job and can apply for credit, has then I'm not aware of it.
          • Well, it can be said that the SSN makes it easier for the Credit Reporting Agency to track individuals. But that was explicitly not supposed to be the purpose of the SSN index. And there's no reason why their job has to be made easier by the existence of the SSN. I mean, requiring SSNs to be tattooed on the forearm would make it far easier and cheaper to secure airports, but it's not gonna happen. Why give the Credit Agencies a free ride? Just because they have the politcal clout to force it on us?


    • it's an easy one to answer.

      Your credit rating and history are based entirely on SSN. If you're buying a car, then you're applying for a loan. If you're applying for a loan, then they use your SSN to look you up.

      Yes, it sucks. But it's the answer to your question.

  • Fighting Real Terrorism... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by sabNetwork ( 416076 ) on Friday April 23, 2004 @10:57PM (#8956724)
    This is ridiculous. After all this "war on terrorism" bullshit, all of the infringements on our civil rights, they still can't solve the most basic terrorism-related problems.

    This guy is basically saying, "Help me! I'm a victim of identity theft by a terrorist," and federal agencies respond with, "Sorry kid, can't help you, we're too busy tapping phones and reading email to deal with terrorism."

    What the hell is Homeland Security good for?
    --
  • Whoops! Must have misread the title...but it seems appropriate.

  • Bend over? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by WarPresident ( 754535 )
    You're basically screwed. The government isn't called "The Government" for nothing. They've got tons of checks and balances to make sure that it's virtually impossible for them to correct their mistakes, much less admit to them. Even if you could get the government to do something, you'll have to get the credit reporting bureaus to do something, too. Have you ever been damned to spend eternity pushing a boulder uphill only to have it roll back down?

    The rest of this isn't very helpful, but what the heck...
    • More than 600 dead, thousands maimed or wounded. All over a lie. Now that's funny!

      Um. And you're discounting Iraqi civilian casualties because...? You mean "600 Americans dead...along with untold thousands [iraqbodycount.net] of civilians".

  • Good Luck (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:24AM (#8957084)
    As one who works for the Social Security Administration, I can tell you that it is virtually impossible to get a new Social Security Number. While it is theoretically possible, SSA is extremely adamant about making sure people keep their numbers, except under the most extreme and extraordinary of circumstances, and they don't consider most identity theft cases as extraordinary.

    All I can tell you is what those who operate the telephone help line for SSA are told to tell the public... contact the three credit bureaus, as there's pretty much nothing we, the government, can/will do.

  • proof positive (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @01:09AM (#8957264)
    that a "National ID" won't make anything or anyone more secure. You should all be freaking _terrified_ if the digitized file containing your biometric data is ever stolen - then you're screwed for life, no matter what. Well, unless you get eye & fingerprint transplants.

  • I'm wondering.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Molina the Bofh ( 99621 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @02:23AM (#8957461) Homepage
    Does anyone here have Bill Gate's SSN ?
  • When someone makes a change in identity or immigrates, the information they provide should be checked against existing information prior to it being accepted. I can't remeber the guy's name but he had several rules regarding databases. One of them was to avoid redundancy (I think).

  • Do not do this at home.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by paulydavis ( 91113 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @03:45AM (#8957678)
    If I was writing a book on how i would get congress to do something... I would get together(in the book) 20 or 30 hacktavists who were willing to go to jail to steal the identities of the entire US Senate and maybe some house memebers too. Lets see how fast the laws would change (in my books world). Any suggestions on a possible ending to this book.
  • The UK government (currently run solely by our own Prime Minister Blair) is attempting to bring in ID cards to stop benefit fraud, identity theft, illegal immigration and the likes.

    Meanwhile the US - which has very strict laws and ID of some kind is fairly well mandatory to even buy a beer, also has a problem with identity theft, benefit fraud and illegal immigration.

    Hello UK - ramping up the amount of ID you carry or require will not stop identity theft even if its biometric because it is human nature

  • I would sue them all (Score:3, Interesting)

    by foniksonik ( 573572 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @06:59AM (#8958033) Homepage Journal
    Find a good attorney and file a law suit.

    Seems to work for every other bad situation. Surely the government can't prove in a court of law that he is in fact the terrorist in question. Let the Supreme Court decide what to do about it. That's what they are there for. This is why we have checks and balances... why settle for a presumably bad financing deal on a car he won't even own in 2 years when you can get millions in punitive damages. It might take a while but hell, he's only 19... his parents can support him for a few more years right?

    • It hasn't worked yet for John Gilmore, but he hasn't given up and he's got the financial resources to press the case until Hell freezes over. Unfortunately, it probably will require an opinion by the Supremes before anything changes, and unless the ACLU and/or the EFF pay your costs, it's a much more expensive task than just buying a car without a loan.
      • Good to hear that someone is up to the task, it needs to happen. There is something missing in the law when this sort of travesty is allowed to occur without a method of recourse being in place. These people did nothing wrong and should not have to suffer because of politics or bureaucratic failings.

  • Allen is not sure how a terrorist ended up with his Social Security number. He believes it has to do with the fact that his birthday falls on Sept. 11. After talking to the Social Security Administration, the U.S. Treasury, the FBI, lawyers, and local police, Allen said that he is still not sure how to clear his name.

    Uh oh ... me too! I guess now I've got yet another thing to thank John Ashcroft, Dick Cheney and Cheney's puppet for!

    How does one go about asking the government "Hey, I was just wondering,

  • Blocked Persons List info (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:47PM (#8959509) Homepage
    First, the Blocked Persons List [treas.gov] is publicly available. Downloadable, even. DOS, Linux, and PDF formats, no less. Is your e-commerce site checking that list? It's supposed to.

    Second, most of the entries on that list don't have SSNs, because they're not US persons. Here's the entry mentioned:

    • BIN AL SHIBH, Ramzi
      (a.k.a. BINALSHEIDAH, Ramzi Mohamed Abdullah; BINALSHIBH, Ramzi Mohammed Abdullah; a.k.a. OMAR, Ramzi Mohammed Abdellah), Billstedter Hauptstr Apt 14, 22111 Hamburg, Germany; Emil Anderson Strasse 5, 22073 Hamburg, Germany; Letzte Heller #109 Hamburg University, 22111 Hamburg, Germany; Marienstr #54, 21073 Hamburg, Germany; Schleemer Ring 2, 22117 Hamburg, Germany; DOB 16 Sep 1973; alt. DOB 1 May 1972; POB Khartoum, Sudan; alt. POB Hadramawt, Yemen; Passport Nos. A755350 (Saudi Arabia), R85243 (Yemen), 00085243 (Yemen); nationality Yemeni (individual) [SDGT] BIN MANSOR, Amran (a.k.a. BIN MANSOR, Henry; a.k.a. BIN MANSOUR, Amran; a.k.a. MANSOR, Amran); DOB 25 May 1965; POB Malaysia (individual) [SDGT]
    There's no SSN given. Only 33 of the names on the "blocked persons" list have US SSNs listed. Also note the date of birth. Bin al Shibih is in his 30s, and the applicant was 19.

    So this is a credit bureau screwup, not a Government screwup.

    Misery, though, is having the same name as someone on the list.

  • Is this for real? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Nate Eldredge ( 133418 ) on Monday April 26, 2004 @05:13AM (#8970695)
    My bullshit detector is triggering on this article. Notice that the only source mentioned is the guy himself. The reporter apparently didn't bother to contact the car dealer, the credit agencies, or anybody in law enforcement for additional information on the incident.

    If Bin al-Shibh had really stolen this guy's SSN, and used it for something, shouldn't he have used the guy's name too? Then it would be his own name on the blacklist. Conversely, if the authorities somehow discovered a terrorist was using an SSN that wasn't his own, you'd think they would at least investigate the rightful owner -- maybe he'd be involved somehow, huh? They wouldn't just drop it on a blacklist.

    Finally, the bit about his birthday being 9/11? That just sounds like a bad joke.

    I'm sorry, but I want to see some more verification of this guy's story before I believe it.
  • I would suggest that this gentleman contact his local congressman. This is the kind of issue that congressman know will win over a voter and everyone in their family for the rest of their lives (or the congressman's political career.)

    I'm not saying that the issue will definitely get taken care of, but if he goes down to his congressman's office, they will know who to call to get the ball rolling. Likely this individual has only spoken to low ranking bureacrats. If he contacts his congressman he can quick

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