To Be Or Not To Be A CET? 86
maxdamage asks: "After reading an earlier Ask Slashdot article and the responses, I am very worried about my future career plans. This fall I am going into CET, which is essentially a cross between a CS and an Electrical Engineering degree. According to these responses, CS majors are doomed to spend their lives waiting tables. Does a computer related engineering degree give hope or should I change to a more general engineering program, before its too late?"
Hard question (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm assuming your talking about the DeVry University program and as they are local I can only tell you my experiences in the Dallas area. They are profit motivated, the recruiters get paid commission (CET/EET/Bio are the most expensive programs), and they have a few teachers who ought to be elsewhere, their registration system blows rhinos. If you read all that and thought so I just want to learn then I would say don't worry any more about it and just go for it you will be glad you did.
Re:Hard question (Score:1)
Re:Hard question (Score:2)
I think experiences on this can vary due to the fact that DeVry is a for profit organization and I'm sure they fall prey to the ills that plague the work force as well. People often overstate their abilities to "get the job."
I found
Do what you really want to do (Score:5, Insightful)
If all you are interested in is money (which some people find an enjoyable pursuit), then you are in the wrong field. Get a law degree, accounting degree, or a business degree. Those tend to work with a lot of money, and they never have a short supply of it. No matter where our world goes, we'll always need lawyers, accountants, and businesspeople.
4H Recruitment drive. (Score:2, Insightful)
Become a farmer. No one complains about them, and we certainly can't be outsourced. Plus you will be in touch with your roots (so to speak). People will be coming to you, TO YOU, to buy things. And yes farming is a very technical field, despite all the "image" in the media e.g. dumb hicks.
"No matter where our world goes, we'll always need lawyers, accountants, and businesspeople."
The same applies moreso to being
Re:4H Recruitment drive. (Score:2)
Re:4H Recruitment drive. (Score:2, Insightful)
The trouble with doing this is that the profit margins are fucking small, really really small. If you don't already own the land, don't bother. If a disaster happens, you'll have a net loss for the year. If you're interested in making profit in cattle farming, then you'll need that million bucks. You'll be feeding your cattle moldy rotten feed and sheep hay to cut costs, and they'll live a miserable life. Cows will die because it's cheaper to let them die than to do
Re:4H Recruitment drive. (Score:1)
Yes, yes they are.
Today to be successfull in farming you need lots of money. Most farmers today of pretty much any size are millionaires on paper. Most of their money is tied up in assets tho. Many farmers are strugling to maintain a livable cast flow. Anything today that is small cannot survive. In dairy farming for instance, a standard herd 10-20 years ago was 30 milking head. Today, the minimum you need to have to possibly have a chance in the futur
4H Recruitment drive.-diversify. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:4H Recruitment drive. (Score:2, Insightful)
Profitability is highly variable and it takes a keen business mind to stay in business.
The best be to make the money is to get paid by agracultural researchers to use you land for researching the viability of new strains of crop as that's gaurenteed to produce a profit.
In short farming is very hard work that you typically get underpaid for.
Re:Do what you really want to do (Score:5, Insightful)
Reasons range from over-hiring during the boom and cuts during the recession to the boost in the unemployed pool caused by scandals like Enron. There were a few firms who even revoked the offers they made to graduating lawyers - dropping them on their butts late enough in the game to almost ensure they remained unemployed for a while. That's a rather unheard-of event in the legal profession, as reputations are everything - it'll kill those firms' chances of hiring the top lawyers out of law school for years to come. Not pleasant. I know people that graduated high up in their classes from top law schools last year that are shoveling snow and mowing lawns for a living right now. Jobs are starting to come through, but typically they aren't anywhere near what one would have expected three years ago.
Accounting hasn't seemed much better - the major scandals dumped a lot of experienced accountants on the streets, and some of the biggest firms collapsed hard [cnn.com]. There's also a smaller number of startups to pick up individual accountants. And business? You talked to any VC recently?
It's rough out there right now. But I agree with your primary recommendation - do what you think you'll love doing. Hell, it probably isn't a bad idea to extend the college-time a bit trying out different fields to find that love until the economy picks up - if one is optimistic that it will. I think it's starting to, if we can try to avoid starting any more long quagmire-style wars and get our government spending in check before things really go south we might have a chance.
My example (Score:5, Interesting)
I may get an MBA a bit down the road, since it would make a nice complement to my programming experience (and what I've already learned about how business works, on the job)... but the point here is that if you're bright and hard-working and show some initiative, you can get *something*, which will give you experience, which is what most employers want.
Yes, degrees matter (and can affect your salary), but having or not having one doesn't doom you to failure.
Re:My example (Score:2)
One thing that everyone seems to forget is that there is no degree that will make you a success.
You can be a plumber and starve, or you can be a plumber that makes millions of dollars.
It all depends on how you approach your professional life.
People with good work ethics are in extremely short supply (and always will).
I wish people would stop painting the job future so bleak.
If you are professional, imaginative, an
Re:Do what you really want to do (Score:3, Informative)
I would disagree. If you all you are interested in is making money, then stick with the computer engineering/Physics/Math degree, depending on where your true in
Re:Do what you really want to do (Score:2)
For someone bearing the actual username "grammar nazi", that sentence is a real mess.
Do you have any experience? (Score:2)
If you have CS experience than the degree could get you past the resume screening. If not than expect alot of helpdesk (if there are any left in the US).
I would closely consider these articles Here [mac.com] that deal with freelance tech support work. They were posted on slashdot withing the last year. I learned alot from them.
I can speak from experience that in an area with one of the highest IT unemployment rates than I have never been without a job. The last year has shown nothing but success.
Why? Because of
Re:Don't take advice from this guy... (Score:2)
No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:5, Insightful)
And also, no degree will provide a guarantee of success.
The pluses and minuses have a lot more to do with your ability to get along with other people, your ability to think through problems properly, and your willingness to do the things you are asked to do.
Ultimately, I think that studying and working within two obscurely related disciplines will make your skills more valuable and usable though. Whether that's CS and EE though - the relationship is perhaps too obvious. CS and CE might be a more worthwhile choice right now.
Re:Motivational speech...Join the poverty class. (Score:1)
Could be, although you have to be pretty good with people to keep a job waiting tables.
Also, remember that if you are an asshole, and I have no way of knowing of course, it is quite likely that people will not tell you so to your face.
I have been unemployed myself, but only for eight months or so, when a series of contracts changed their timetable and I was left without a job at a bad time of year. It's tough, I know, and when I got out the end of it I was extremely motivated to work hard.
I interview mo
Re:No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:2)
I've never really figured out if there is some difference between a *ET and a *E degree, tho. I'm not sure if it's just an alternate naming convention or an 'applied engineering' degree...
Re:No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:2)
The difference between the *E and the *ET degree is mostly a matter of ciriculum. With the *E degree you focus more on math, science, base theory, modeling, etc. The (IMHO, correct) assumption is that technology changes so fast it's better to leave you get that on your own(at your first job as a Junior Engineer) and to focus on the basic skills and theory that will always apply.
With an *ET degree you get some of the theory but not nearly as much. The focus is mor
Re:No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:2)
I meant for "CE" to stand for "Chemical Engineering", but after I posted, and realised the possible misinterpretation it wa s"Oh well... :-)"
Re:No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:1)
That (CS+CivEng) seemed like an intersting combo.
Re:No degree dooms you to a life waiting tables... (Score:2)
From the Electronic Technicians Association website [eta-sda.com]
"Since 1978 the Electronics Technicians Association International (ETA-I) Certified Electronics Technicians program has accredited electronics technicians worldwide who excel in areas of electronics equipment service and support. An electronics technician who successfully passes an ETA-I certification exam is professionally recognized as having the necessary knowledge and technical skills to meet international de facto elect
If you hope to be making decent money... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:If you hope to be making decent money... (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, the offshoring of technical jobs is disturbing but its still a small chunk of the overall jobs available. The people who are out of work, by and large, are because of the economy and increased productivity levels. Not because of offshoring.
Even if your outlook were true, if all the good paying technical jobs dry up there won't be anyone left to pay for the plumbers andmechanics.
Re:If you hope to be making decent money... (Score:1)
Hrm... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Hrm... (Score:1)
Having done an MEng entitled "Information Engineering" (essentially Electronics and CS), I was worried about this. In every CV I've ever sent, I've included the list of courses I took as part of the degree attached as an appendix. Employers love it and I've had no problem finding jobs here in the UK. I don't get bored in my job because I get to do both, and ultimately it lead to my being in a R&D positi
my advice (Score:3)
Short of that, think about what kind of career you want, and what companies hire people that do what you want to do. Call said companies (or e-mail, whatever), and ask the people there what would be most useful.
But trust me on the peaches.
I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:2)
Re:I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:I have an EET and CNS degree (Score:2)
The "T" stands for technology (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The "T" stands for technology (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems to my a physicist would say something very different than what you are saying regarding applied versus theoretical approaches. Physics in the theorical aspect of science, Engineering is the applied science.
Your equation example is also off the mark. An
Re:The "T" stands for technology (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:The "T" stands for technology (Score:2)
Re:The "T" stands for technology (Score:1)
More food for thought (Score:4, Insightful)
My employer looks at a number of things that are not related your GPA, which school you went to, etc., when looking at new college grads:
1. Work ethic - are you willing to take responsibility for getting your work done, asking questions when you don't know something, willing to contribute when you have a good idea?
2. Ability to work in a team - we don't have any individual projects. Work with the team, try to get along with your co-workers.
3. language skills - do you speak a second language? In the industry in which I'm employed, a second language is very helpful, our customers are from all over the northern Hemisphere. A willingness to travel goes along with the language skills.
4. "business common sense" - like it or not, we're all in this for a profit. The path to this is keeping customers happy while making common sense business decisions.
It's my bet that if you can exhibit a number of these skills after you finish your BS degree, you should have no problem with getting a decent job. So while working through your CET degree, look for opportunities to improve your skills in these areas.
CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:3, Insightful)
What's your point? The original question was about whether to get a CET - which was stated as a cross between a CS and Electrical Engineering degree. Maybe I'm assuming the original question is ref
Re:CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:3, Interesting)
I went right from highschool to a computer engineering program. After my first year I got an internship, and then I was hired by my employer and I started finishing up my last 3 years of school at an on
Re:CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:2)
Re:CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:2)
Re:CS/EE does NOT equal CET (Score:1)
Re:More food for thought (Score:4, Informative)
Many colleges and universities offer (or even require) internships as part of their engineering degree programs. Even if your school doesn't have an official internship programs, it is in your best interest to find a company to intern for during the summer or even part-time during the school year.
When you talk to potential internship employers, make sure that you find out how they handle their internship programs. You probably don't want an internship where all you do is clerical and go-for work, especially if you're beyond your first or second year. Instead, find an employer who gives their interns actual projects/responsibilities as part of their experiance. "Implemented an automated end-of-line test system for [insert widget here]" looks much better on your resume then "Reorganized storage rooms". While a certain amount of clerical/go-for work is part of almost any internship, it should not be the only thing you do.
Re:More food for thought (Score:2)
3. language skills
And where would you learn such a languange? Right, you learn them abroad. Preferably from that beautiful slender sexy french girl or that hot petite chinese, who both love it when you talk linux.
So do what I did and do your majoring in another country. When you apply for jobs, your resume will really stand out. I sure wouldn't have gotten my current job if it wasn't for the time abroad. And since there is no way escaping the offshore experience, yo
skills matter (Score:2)
As software and computer engineering matures and the industry grows (yes, this is arguable right now, but over the next 20 to 40 years I have no doubts it will grow), the primary differentiator between you and the next guy for obtaining a job in CS/CE fields will be tang
Oh please.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Look, doom scenarios are normaly wrong, what you read here is mostly innacurate tosh, specially when it comes to outsourcing and levels of unemployment.
Only the bitter and unemployed have the time to rant, all the others are too busy making a living.
Success is combined with a lot of luck, of which you have no control.
So study whatever you want, enjoy it, and drop the idea that what you learn will somehow 100% influence what you earn.
There are people with no education whatsoever who became millionares for having one good idea or for being in the right place at the right time.
Re:Oh please.... (Score:2, Funny)
I have no degree at all (Score:5, Informative)
If there is one thing you absolutely need to learn early in life is how to learn, how to find the information you need, how to comprehend and apply that information and how to express to others, in a language and terminology that they appreciate, the total of your learning and knowledge.
GO learn how to do these things and get a degree, any degree, if you want to be able to prove that you are capable of them without having to demonstrate them. Then go and apply for jobs you think are interesting or lucrative. If you apply for enough jobs of this sort you will find one that appeals to you. Do you really care if it uses all the skills you learned in college? Most of those skills will be nearly obsolete in 5 years. The skills that won't be obsolete are the ones concerning how to learn. You can always teach yourself how to do any job. Just remember that it will take you a year or two of study to really understand that new job well enough to earn money at it. Plan ahead.
Personally I think people should change jobs significantly every 5 or 6 years. Start in CS, move to Marketing, switch to engineering and manufacturing, run your own business for a while, teach at a community college, buy a farm, fly a corporate jet, become a paralegal... why not. None of them are really that difficult but they do take some specialized knowledge to do them well, probably about 2 years of serious study will teach you what you need to know for any of them.
Re:I have no degree at all (Score:2)
But I agree that being flexible and willing to do new things and new areas are very important. It's hard to put that on your resume though.
Re:I have no degree at all (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I have no degree at all (Score:2)
Anything else you really want to do is possible. Now most average jobs will be easier to get with one... only because HR doesn't care enough about the position to take the time to find out anything about the applicants. So granted, your run-of-the-mill white collar
Excellent Combination (Score:2, Interesting)
Pure CS folks have a lot of difficulty communicating with HW and EE's tend to write crap code or end up with very tedious jobs.
The combination opens up a whole realm of opportunities such as autonomous vehicles, home automation, simulation. It's F'ing great!
As for a career choice,
Don't knock the waiters (Score:2)
Don't knock waiting tables. A good waiter can make good money. Perhaps not quite as much in the long run as the degreed guy, but the waiter starts at full wages earlier. $60,000 a year is reasonable for a good waiter to take home, without working full time. (just get the lunch crowd in a busness area)
It takes the right personality to do it though. I'd never make a good waiter as I don't have the right people skills. People will wait in line to have the best waiters serve their table, even though ot
Re:Don't knock the waiters (Score:1)
There's always room for another good engineer (Score:4, Interesting)
> doomed to spend their lives waiting tables. Does a
> computer related engineering degree give hope or
> should I change to a more general engineering
> program, before its too late?
There is always room for another good engineer. If you take your education seriously and apply yourself, you'll be able to differentiate yourself from your peers. Then you won't be stuck waiting tables.
There is always room for another motivated engineer. If you take a job out of school that isn't quite the job you imagined, but are agressive in pursuing every opportunity at work - you volunteer to finish off that project that no one wants to do, you offer to lead the project thats the opposite of glamorous - you'll differentiate yourself from your peers. Then you won't be stuck waiting tables.
The world is always lacking honest, competent people who will go the extra mile to get work done. If you're one of those people, there will be work for you in the current economy. It might not be the job you want, or even the one you were trained for, but there will be one.
Nothing wrong with CS (Score:1)
I'm EE/CS (Score:2)
No Risk == No Gain (Score:2)
These people are people who will never be anything more than helpdesk or Cobol-cubicle material, especially when their tone suggests they believe they're living "the good life." How about that fellow who thought he was eating $1000/mo on $150 of onions, cheap bread, meat sauce, and melted-down cubes of ch
Accreditation is the name of the game (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyways, my point is, Be Careful; otherwise, you are just another lamer with a fake engineering degree.
CET? (Score:2, Informative)
Any real engineering is good (Score:1)
Thanks (Score:1)
Re:Thanks (Score:1)
The degree doesn't matter - you do (Score:1)
I am cautious of hybrid degrees - I would be concerned that they water down the content to pack it into the time available.
If you're passionate about hardware, go EE. If you are passionate about software, go CS. If you want a foot in both camps, you could do what I did - CS, and then buy a copy of Horowitz and Hill
Get a good, general education (Score:1)
Any course of study you follow with an aim of making piles of money in a single area of limited scope puts you at risk of failure because of some cyclical swing or technology shift. Diversifying your knowledge will prepare you to deal with anything that life throws at you. This is the way it works in the animal kingdom, and I think in human society as well.
This is not a put-down of engineering or of any other course of study. I majored in Spanish and endured a lot of jokes about how I would have to work