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Displays Hardware

Does a DVI KVM Solution Exist? 103

Posted by Cliff from the for-those-who-have-$$$-for-more-than-one-LCD dept.
clichekiller asks: "I'm looking for a way to share my Apple 23" LCD between my Dual-G4 and my Athlon PC. I know that I'll need to upgrade my PC video card to one that has a DVI connector on it, but I haven't found a DVI Switch yet. Is there a simple way to share an LCD between two computers? Has anyone managed this between a Mac and a PC? I'd really like to ditch my behemoth 70 lbs. 19" monitor."
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Does a DVI KVM Solution Exist? More

Does a DVI KVM Solution Exist?

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  • Did you even.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by the_mind_ ( 157933 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:23AM (#9049736)
    ... bother to look for them? [google.com]

  • Good news and bad news (Score:5, Informative)

    by AlexisKai ( 114768 ) * on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:26AM (#9049746) Homepage
    Belkin makes a version of their Omniview SOHO KVM switches that has DVI ports and USB - perfect for use with a Mac. Unfortunately, I've been unable to get it to work with the Apple 23" flat panel monitor using Apple's DVI-ADC adapter. When the monitor is connected to the Mac through the KVM switch, the Mac (a G5) shuts itself down immediately. I haven't yet figured out why it does this or whether there's a workaround. Belkin tech support says they've never heard of that but couldn't say whether they'd tested the switch with Apple's monitors.
    • This is the same Belkin that has browser redirection to ads built into their soho routers? No thanks... Anyone but. When I see "Belkin" now, I think of K-Mart quality.

      • Re:Good news and bad news (Score:5, Informative)

        by AlexisKai ( 114768 ) * on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @07:40AM (#9049799) Homepage
        Yeah, it's funny - they have a diagram on their website of the way the ports are arranged on the switch. When I got the switch, I discovered that the diagram was inaccurate in one crucial way: the DVI-in plug, where the monitor plugs into the KVM, is so close to the side of the case that a normal DVI cable will not fit into it. I called Belkin and they said they were aware of the issue and would ship me a free cable to fix the problem. Which they did... after a couple months.
      • This is the same Belkin that has browser redirection to ads built into their soho routers?

        And just what is wrong with welcome datacomp ads built into consumer devices?

        • And just what is wrong with welcome datacomp ads built into consumer devices?

          If you don't see the problem with a device you paid money to get spamming you with ads, I don't think I can explain it.

      • Belkin's 54g WAP is the best WAP I've ever used.

        Way more featureful and easier to set up than any Linksys. And it actually works, unlike every Netgear WiFi product I've ever tried to use.
      • I have set up wireless networks for soem of the people I know and many of them purchased Belkin APs/routers. Belkin is sold in the local OfficeMax (small town :: no CompUSA/CircutCity/BestBuy/ect). While I have always been able to get them to work they do seem less likely to just work when first plugged in. I would much prefer to use the Linksys APs/routers, or even the Microsoft ones.

    • Re:Good news and bad news (Score:3, Informative)

      by dago ( 25724 )
      I had also some problems with that Belkin switches. I had to bought it from a US webshop ... only to discover that they do not support int'l keyboards. They need to capture all the key to have hotkey support, but they didn't implemented a full set of keyboards, but just the main US one(s).

      So, instead I'm now using a plain ARP/Datacon one (which is a distributor brand), available trough their website in CH,DE,AT.

      But if you are somewhere else in Europe : good luck !
    • Every... ahem.. interaction I've had with belkin tech support in recent years has been irreparably harmed by a... umm.... LANGUAGE BARRIER *cough*hindustani*cough*.

      Seriously, take everything they say with a grain of salt, they're of little help with genuine problems. I stay away from anything belkin i can't easily return to the store.

    • Re:Good news and bad news (Score:5, Informative)

      by mcgroarty ( 633843 ) <brian DOT mcgroarty AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @10:35AM (#9051175) Homepage
      Be careful of the Belkin Omniview series if you're mixing PC and Mac. A good number of USB keyboards don't work properly through the Omniview, and you may find yourself forced to change keyboards. I couldn't use the Pfuca Happy Hacker Keyboard, an iMac keyboard, or the MS wireless keyboard. I ended up having to buy an actual MS Natural Keyboard before I could type properly. Belkin acknowledges the problem and says there is no planned fix.

      The keyboard is also virtualized, and the virtual keyboard has very course control over keyboard repeat settings. If you've become used to specific timings, you'll deal with some frustration.

      The mouse is virtualized as well. If you have a fancy mouse with tilt and a bunch of extra buttons, some of those features will be lost. It pretty much emulates a three button mouse with a scroll wheel and internet forward/back buttons. I read some forum problems where others' Logitech mice didn't work at all, but I didn't face any mouse problems myself.

      Lastly, if you're using the 2.6 kernel, you definitely need to jump into the documentation and make sure you're using the new USB devices. If you're running the old keyboard-specific USB driver instead of the generic HID driver, keyboard detection will be erratic with most KVM switches.

      • Thanks this was precisely what I was hoping to get when I posted the question.

        As far as keyboards go I'm already using a Microsoft Natural for my PC and the standard keyboard that came with my mac. I can switch to the PC keyboard for both, but if its virtualized will Microsoft's Intellitouch recognize the keyboard on the Mac so I can map the appropriate keys.

        The more I read the more I come to realize that it will probably be cheaper, and easier, to just by a smaller LCD monitor for my PC.

        You would
        • You would think that this wouldn't be so difficult to do. I'm amazed at the level of complexity involved in this.

          There is an easy solution and I have it for you.

          What you need is the CompuCable Hybrid ADC/DVI KVM switch. [compucable.com]

          It has an ADC-out port that goes to your Cinema display -- mine is the 22". There is an ADC-in port that comes from the video card on the G4. You plug your USB keyboard and mouse into the back of the Cinema display. Mouse and keyboard signals are passed over ADC to the Mac.

          There i

    • When the monitor is connected to the Mac through the KVM switch, the Mac (a G5) shuts itself down immediately. I haven't yet figured out why it does this or whether there's a workaround.

      Have you tried disabling the monitor's power button, [macosxhints.com] just for shits and giggles?

      ~Philly
      • Have you tried disabling the monitor's power button, just for shits and giggles?

        Wow. I read the instructions. Is that an actual intutive set of steps, or is it a "Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, B, A, Select, Start" kind of easter-eggy thing? Sucks if they actually HID the "enable touch switch" checkbox like that. Makes you wonder how many other useful things they've hidden!

    • A coworker of mine had this same problem, but with a different KVM switch. Plug it in and the Powerbook just dies.

      He finally, after several tech, support calls found this out:

      There's a particular pin you need to actually remove from the cable with a needlenose pliers, and then the Mac will no longer shut itself off. I can't remember exactly what pin it was, but I hope that could at least give you enough to start with.
  • Plug the LCD into the better of the two computers. Make sure both computers are networked together. Set up an X server on both machines. Set it up to switch the displays when you push a certain keystroke.

    This is probably a lot easier to set up than what I'm trying to do. I've got a 17" crt and a 17" lcd plugged into a dual head geforce fx. I'm trying to configure X so that I can get one window manager on the left and another window manager on the right. Then I want to use x2x or something to move the mo
    • you do know NVidia for linux supports twinview?
      I have a very happy 2560x960 X/KDE setup accross two monitors using a FX5700

      www.nvidia.com follow the download links

      • Re:Roundabout (Score:3, Informative)

        by AKnightCowboy ( 608632 )
        you do know NVidia for linux supports twinview? I have a very happy 2560x960 X/KDE setup accross two monitors using a FX5700

        He said he wants *two* window managers. I take that to mean two different window managers running and controlling each screen. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that, but whatever floats their boat. NVidia's stuff works fine on the other hand except for the occassional flickering I get from the DVI output (connected via a DVI-VGA adapter which I've replaced.. still flicke

    • As I recall, there was something about this in the xorg FAQ. You don't need 2 X servers. You just need to set up 2 displays, *without* xinerama. Just follow the standard dual-head configuration thing - it mentions dual-headed cards. Then, start X normally, and your primary display will contain your original window manager. After that, just do DISPLAY=:0.1 icewm & or whatever. Note that you can't push stuff across your desktops other than your cursor, though. -ReK
  • Why upgrade your video card and buy a KVM when software (VNC et. al.) will suffice?
    Of course this solution depends greatly on the intended use, as it is not entirely suited to hardcore gaming, etc.

    • Re:VNC (Score:5, Informative)

      by Smidge204 ( 605297 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:57AM (#9050204) Journal
      VNC and similar virtual computing programs are useful, but they don't compare with direct access. No latency, no compromise on color depth or resolution, no compression or update artifacts. There's also no dependency on the VNC software, which means you can access/view parts of the machine outside of the OS (BIOS configuration, etc).

      There's also a ZERO percent chance that a third party can access the machine remotely. Even with the best security practices and software, if you're connected to a network there's still a chance of a break-in.

      VNC has it's uses, but a direct connection is preferable if the physical machine is right next to you. The advantage of a KVM switch increases with the number of machines, too!
      =Smidge=
    • I've found that VNC, at least the "official" release, can have major performance issues on the server machine. It eats CPU like crazy, and besides that performance hit, it actually slows down certain GUI bound programs.

      I had one niche industry program run more than 50% slower - not doubt it was badly or something, but a KVM wouldn't cause such foolishness.

      Jonathan
      • Yeah, VNC is pretty useless for anything but casual maintenance use.

        Even when it's the only thing running, it's pretty sluggish. I tried using it to display a 2GHz Windows box on my 3GHz Linux box over gigabit ethernet, and even at near-zero CPU load on both boxes, it was still painful. You type things in Visual Studio and they take half a second to appear on the client machine.

      • I've found that VNC, at least the "official" release, can have major performance issues on the server machine. It eats CPU like crazy

        While still not being an ideal solution, Ultr@VNC [sourceforge.net] should solve the resource usage problem as it ships with a ring 0 based display driver removing the requirement to continuously poll for modified screen contents as it gets notified when a portion of the screen changes.

        • I actually use it; and while it is a big improvement over regular old VNC, it is substantially less stable. The display driver thingy isn't compatible with all video cards, either - I have an older machine with an old S3 Virge display card, and no go.

          But thanks.

          Jonathan

  • Dr. Bott (Score:5, Informative)

    by Mr. Darl McBride ( 704524 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:34AM (#9050062)
    Dr. Bott makes a pretty inexpensive mechanical DVI+USB switch. Like most of them, it's only good for up to 1280x1024 panels. They used to advertise it as being okay for Cinema displays, but enough people had problems owing to the extra cable length not being tolerated well for the higher signaling rate that they withdrew the claim.
    • I guess you mean this one. [drbott.com] Right now I'm sharing a 19" Planar LCD (1280x1024) with my Powerbook and PC using a cheap Compucable VGA & USB KVM. Its cheap in both senses of the word, but it works OK. But I'd prefer to use DVI. There don't seem to be any for less than the Belkin one [belkin.com] I'd like to find one for less than $100, cables included, because the only difference for me would be a slight increase in clarity and less fuss, and no having to push the "adjust" button on the monitor when I switch between
      • I've got that very unit (the Dr. Bott) and it includes cables for four systems.

        I'm switching to a notebook for my second system, so I don't need it anymore. I'd gladly work out a deal with you if you're interested. (You don't have an email address listed here, or I'd have written directly.)

  • This one [csensors.com] would just require a ADC-DVI connector between the PC and the switch.

    For more choices, go here [apple.com] and search "kvm adc" or "kvm dvi"

  • RAM Electronics (Score:4, Informative)

    by psyconaut ( 228947 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @08:58AM (#9050206)
    http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/DVI_switch.html

    Expensive, however....

    -psy
    • i've been looking for something like this.. these appear to be the ONLY dvi/adc kvms that can even handle 1920x1200. now if it only wasn't $500 :-/
      • I think part of the problem is that to do DVI switching at high bandwidth *properly* you need to implement something a bit more than a passive design (i.e. using proper PHYs, etc).

        I've looked at switching DVI myself with FPGAs and it's not easy.

  • Here's some (Score:3, Informative)

    by DrSkwid ( 118965 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @09:01AM (#9050226) Journal
    DVI KVM Switches [dotgeek.org]

  • I ditched KVMs about a year ago. Now I have Xinerama multihead setup (number of heads vary with varying number of monitors, videoadapters and deskspace available), and use X on *nix boxes and vnc to windows boxes.

    Much easier than KVM-switches.. really .. they are a thing of the past .. and perhaps serverroom.

  • Some Suggestions may be missing the point... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IAmAMacOSXAddict ( 718470 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @12:05PM (#9052125) Homepage
    Hi

    Well, I might as well post a comment at the root level, as aposed to replying to other peoples comments.

    1> this person has a $2000 dollar APPLE High Definition LCD Screen. The NATIVE resolution is 1920x1200. It goes without saying that his PeeCee probably has a graphic card capable of the resolution, if not I'm sure he has enough money to get one (they start at about $100).

    2> for all you Google searchers... There are no KVM switches on your search that support anything higher than 1600x1200. I'm sure if he wanted to downgrade to that resolution, he would have never asked this question.

    3> for the Suggestions involving VNC, or Remote Desktop, they are good suggestions however they have been found to be a known security issue. UNLESS you run your own home network behind a firewall these should NEVER be used. If you use them without blocking internet connectivity to those ports, you will have every script kiddy in the known universe tapdancing all over your precious machine. IF you are behind a firewall they would be OK provided you secure the LAN and "trust" all the other machines on that LAN.

    With all that being said, I have looked into the issue also, I own a Dual 2Gig G5 with a 23" also, along with an alienware and laptop, the VNC/RemoteDesktop works for everything except when I want to play FPS games (or other high refresh rate applications) on the Alienware.

    Bob

    • Re:Some Suggestions may be missing the point... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Daemonik ( 171801 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2004 @11:00AM (#9063674) Homepage
      3> for the Suggestions involving VNC, or Remote Desktop, they are good suggestions however they have been found to be a known security issue. UNLESS you run your own home network behind a firewall these should NEVER be used. If you use them without blocking internet connectivity to those ports, you will have every script kiddy in the known universe tapdancing all over your precious machine. IF you are behind a firewall they would be OK provided you secure the LAN and "trust" all the other machines on that LAN.

      1) If you use a Windows PC and it's connected to the internet it should be behind a firewall. Period, end of discussion.

      2) You can safely tunnel a VNC connection through SSH to connect over the internet.

    • Actually.... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by voxel ( 70407 )
      DVI specification doesn't really support 1920x1200 either... Apple performed a hack to DVI (data in vblank signal) to get more information packed into the cable.

      Given this, there is a good chance DVI switchers actually CAN support 1920x1200 even though they "officially" can't claim they do.

      • Re:Actually.... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by prefect42 ( 141309 )
        So I guess the running IBM T220 off a Quadro FX3000G at 3840 x 2400 is a figment of my imagination. With the new FX4000 you can run it off a single DVI connector. I'd not read anything to suggest this is breaking the DVI spec.
  • Most high end DVI LCDs also have a VGA input. Look at something like the Viewsonic vp201mb. It's 1600x1200, very fast response rate (fine for gaming), and you can use the front panel to swap between DVI and VGA cables in two button presses.

    You can get USB switches for under $10 shipped, and between the two you have a lossless display switch.

    If you go the KVM route with DVI, you're limited to lower datarate DVI modes. No 1600x1200 or Apple Cinema display support that I'm aware of. If you go the KVM route w

    • Getting a whole new monitor after one's already blown a none-too-small wad of cash on a Cinema 23HD is... expensive. Especially given that the logical candidate for such things is the Sony SDM-P232W/B [amazon.com], which uses the same panel as the Cinema 23HD (though apparently with a different anti-glare coating), has dual DVI inputs... and costs more than the Cinema 23HD.

      A dual-input Cinema would be... wonderful.

    • This is something I've been wondering about for a while: I want to get an LCD monitor to use with my two computers. I'm looking at the Samsung Syncmaster 173t. One computer has a video card with DVI out, the other has only analog. It seems logical to me that a monitor having both DVI and analog inputs would allow you to connect both cables from two running machines simultaeously and select the one to use with a switch or menu item. However, I've read the reviews, manuals, support pages, message boards,
  • There may be few DVI switches - but CRT switches are plentiful and cheap.

    If you use 3 DVI->CRT Converters and a CRT switch, you should be able to retain the DVI connectivity. It should look a little like this:

    System 1*---&|CRT Switch|&----*System 2
    &
    |
    *
    Monitor

    & = DVI->CRT Adapter
    - | = DVI Cable
    Switch = CRT Switch
    * = DVI In/Out

    I'm pretty sure it works - in theory. I claim no responsibility if this fries your mon

  • RTFG (Score:1)

    by n2rjt ( 88804 )
    In the spirit of the ancient reply "RTFM", I'd like to offer "RTFG", where G of course stands for Google.
  • It's the editors who take responsibility for completely lame submissions. I wonder about the review process. I'm sure /dev/random plays an important part.
  • http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1208 [gefen.com]

    Works well. You just need an ADC to DVI converter (which I picked up at the Apple Store). I used this setup to share my 22" cinema display between my PC and my G4.

  • I do this - Gefen KVM (Score:5, Informative)

    by tm2b ( 42473 ) on Tuesday May 04, 2004 @11:19PM (#9059940) Journal
    I current have a setup with a couple of Powermac G4 Cubes and a Vaio on a Gefen KVM [gefen.com] connected to a 23" cinema display LCD and a Kennsignton wireless mouse.

    Works great, they support ADC by providing ADC-to-DVI cables and the main box is DVI/USB/audio.

    I have one major complaint - the switch they provides (ie, the UI) is via an IR remote control. Unfortunately it's hideously simple - my TiVo remote is constantly swtiching the KVM if I don't block it. And that's the only UI to the KVM. Otherwise, it's great.
    • I think we have a winner, the ADC switcher seems to be designed for EXACTLY what the poster was asking. It's the only posted solution which supports 1920x1200 resolution.
  • While this topic is being discussed, maybe people can toss out ideas for this situation:

    Analog (no DVI), minimum 4 sytems, maximum 8 systems. USB, dual-user, dual-head, and rackmountable features are a plus.

    Exceptional video quality, though, is an absolute must. Minimum 1600x1200x85Hz in *perfect* video quality.

    I have a nice Aten, but even with high-dollar cabling, I still get a lot of ghosting and blurring at 1600x1200x85hz. Besides, it's only a 2-system KVM, and I need a few more ports.

    Thanks for a

  • KVMs may require unacceptable compromises (Score:3, Informative)

    by dgallina ( 665193 ) on Wednesday May 05, 2004 @10:38AM (#9063393)
    Keep in mind that using a KVM may require you to make compromises you find unacceptable.

    I bought and tried a few on my P4, G4, and G5- based setup. Ended up returning *all* of them.

    The biggest issues I encountered, in no particular order:

    1) degraded video quality. some cables / switches were better than others, but all of them caused some degredation past about 1024x768.

    2) virtualization of mouse and keyboard devices. stops any special buttons or keys from working. on most KVMs, this means that your apple media keys might not work and some unusual mice (my kensington optical trackball) may not work at all. This alone was a deal-breaker for me since i use those extra buttons for expose and other functions

    3) pc-centric nature of most kvm's. most of them assume you are connecting PCs. KVM hardware may not work or may have issues with non-PC OS' or hardware. The KVMs i tried usually worked ok, but a few presented virtual devices that were not recognized by my Macs or Linux.

    Good luck!
    Diego
    • 1) degraded video quality. some cables / switches were better than others, but all of them caused some degredation past about 1024x768.
      You're aware, of course, that the poster is asking about KVMs which support DVI, which is a digital video connection? He therefore does not have to worry about analog signal quality problems such as you describe.
  • sadly, the ACD23's use apple's own proprietary connector, the ADC and requires a 100dollar adapter (sold by apple and some other companies). The ADC is essentially a DVI connector but with power and USB lines all in one. And because of the proprietary-ness, it'll cost you.
  • if you dont care to use dvi you can always just convert it to vga easily enough, that's what i did with my kvm. the adaptors are cheap and easy to find (and often come with the monitor).
  • Here is a very cool software solution for your problem. It allows you to share mouse/keyboard/monitor with all of your computer systems via your computer network. Essentially you can switch to each system by moving your mouse off of the edge of your 23" monitor. ie.. move mouse to left and you have control of your Linux Box, move mouse to the right and you get back to your Mac or Windows system for that matter. Awesome software that outta be included into the X11 standard for folks that have to administr
  • Turns out I had this exact issue... I love my Apple Cinema Display 23 incher. Got one for home and one for work. Both hooked up to WinXP boxes (sorry Mac dudes... Apple makes a sweet, and I mean SWEET, LCD slab... but daddy's gotta eat).

    Upgrading my work rig, I needed to KVM back and forth with the old one. So I got this puppy:

    http://store.yahoo.com/kvm-switch/adcdvi-adc-ab . ht ml

    You hook your PeeCee into it plus the two monitors. It does the DVI to ADC conversion for you... don't need apples dingleb

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