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Communications Handhelds Hardware

Palm Desktop Replacement? 46

Posted by Cliff from the finding-a-better-PIM dept.
rueger asks: "Almost from Day One I've found the Palm desktop and handheld software to be sorely lacking. The Address Book only allows you to record one address, not one for home and one for work, and only lets you sort or search by name and company name, not by city for instance. The calendar won't let you link contact names to appointments which again seems an obvious missing feature. I've been looking for a software replacement that would add these features and more, and still sync with my Palm (well, Clie). Outlook is not a possibility for all of the usual reasons. What I've found is that there are some very nice PIMs out there, but most won't hot-sync. Those that do, like Time & Chaos, have no more functionality than the Palm software, and lack some features that I use. What are other handheld users turning to? Is there an Open Source replacement?"
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Palm Desktop Replacement? More

Palm Desktop Replacement?

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  • Ecco Pro with Shadow Palm and DateBk5 (Score:5, Informative)

    by Will Sargent ( 2751 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @06:56PM (#9446992) Homepage
    There was a pretty huge list of PIMs, but the market was exterminated by Microsoft Outlook and never really recovered. In addition, only some of them integration with Palms.

    http://john.redmood.com/organizers.html [redmood.com]
    http://www.ypsolog.com/docs/comp/other/pim.html [ypsolog.com]
    http://www.ms.lt/ms/projects/toolkinds/organize.ht ml [www.ms.lt]

    The odds are good that you'll find something that works.

    I personally use [tersesystems.com] Ecco Pro [eccorocks.com], Shadow Palm [codejedi.com] and DateBk5 [pimlicosoftware.com].

    But then again, I'm a zealot [tersesystems.com].

  • Evolution (Score:5, Informative)

    by npsimons ( 32752 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @07:05PM (#9447085) Homepage Journal
    I know a lot of people like to bag on Evolution, but I've found it works quite nicely when synchronizing to my Palm m500 over serial. I'm using Debian stable, and there are a couple of packages that you will need besides evolution. I believe they were evolution, gnome-pilot, and gnome-pilot-conduits (apt should get all the proper dependencies). Although, you still only get one address (business) on the Palm side, I believe this is a limitation with the Palm addressbook software. You can keep multiple addresses in Evolution, but only the business one will show up on the Palm addressbook.
    • I use evolution with my sony clie, im using LFS, and I connect with USB. Check out http://www.pilot-link.org [pilot-link.org]. It syncs my contacts, task list, appointments, notes, and sends mail for me. The only catch is I have to press the hotsync button on the cradle BEFORE I start gpilotd (which is backwards accoring to the gpilotd docs). I'm also using udev+hotplug so the ttyUSB devices that are needed arent created until I press the hotsync button, and are removed when the sync is over. I haven't quite figured out how
    • Evolution [...] works quite nicely when synchronizing to my Palm m500 over serial.

      Perhaps they've improved it in the last year or so, but when I synced with Evolution it eventually lost all my careful categorization of contacts, put in multiple duplicates of some records, and completely deleted others.

      So at the very least, back it up on a real copy of Palm Desktop before you experiment.

      • So at the very least, back it up on a real copy of Palm Desktop before you experiment.

        Considering Palm Desktop doesn't run on Linux, that is not an option for me. However, pilot-xfer (part of pilot-link) works quite nicely for commandline backup and restore.

        • So at the very least, back it up on a real copy of Palm Desktop before you experiment.

          Considering Palm Desktop doesn't run on Linux, that is not an option for me. However, pilot-xfer (part of pilot-link) works quite nicely for commandline backup and restore.

          Isn't pilot-link the thing that evolution uses for syncing? Having had my data corrupted by Evolution or some part of the sync chain that it uses, I'd still recommend finding some way (friend's Windows box, VMWare, etc.) to use the official software.

          • Re:Evolution (Score:3, Insightful)

            by npsimons ( 32752 )


            Isn't pilot-link the thing that evolution uses for syncing?

            The short answer: no. The long answer: while they may have shared a code base in the distant past, they definitely don't perform the same now. I'll admit that Evolution isn't perfect, and while I haven't had the severity of problems you listed, I've had some similar ones (duplicate contacts). I mainly use pilot-xfer in backup and restore mode, which does no "synchronizing", just bit for bit copies to or from the Palm.

          • Re:Evolution (Score:1, Interesting)

            by Anonymous Coward
            Even when the pilot-link backend was used by gnome-pilot, pilot-links was not used for syncronization of individual addresses and calendar entries. pilot-link simply uploads and downloads the .pdb and .prc files while the higher-level packages (e.g. gnome-pilot-conduits or kpilot) manage (and potentially maim) the individual entries. The most failsafe backup method is likely pilot-xfer -b.

  • Correction (Score:4, Informative)

    by NanoGator ( 522640 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @07:13PM (#9447136) Homepage Journal
    "Outlook is not a possibility for all of the usual reasons."

    The 'usual reasons', for the most part, apply to Outlook Express and not Outlook 2000/XP.
    • Furthermore, a little common sense and configuration tweaking can make Outlook quite secure. I have had absolutely no problem with Outlook and I've every version (OL 98?? through OL 2003) I really do like 2003.

      I don't use OE so I don't know about the express version.

      • Re:Correction (Score:3, Interesting)

        by NanoGator ( 522640 )
        "I don't use OE so I don't know about the express version."

        The Express version is scary. Not only are a bunch of things implemented in a half-assed way, but it also uses a different extension than OL2k does. If somebody forwards you an OE message as an attachment, it attaches a .EML file to the email and opens OE even if you have OL2k installed. Nasty security risk there, thank you very much M$. I'd recommend to ANYBODY to change the .EML extension to Notepad.

        Outlook XP (haven't used 03 yet) was loc
      • Furthermore, a little common sense and configuration tweaking can make Outlook quite secure.

        And if you use Outlook, you can also use SpamBayes [sourceforge.net]

    • Not running on Linux?

  • Agendus (Score:4, Informative)

    by notyou2 ( 202944 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @07:48PM (#9447438) Homepage
    I can't speak for the desktop version of their software (I only use the Palm edition), but I've been very happy with Agendus [iambic.com] by Iambic. It remedies many of the issues you raise.

    They have full versions of their software for both Palm and Windows.

  • Open Source, pure Java HotSync replacement. (Score:4, Informative)

    by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @08:20PM (#9447640) Homepage Journal

    To replace your HotSync software, take a look at the jSyncManager [jsyncmanager.org]. It's an Open Source, pure Java, and will run on all your different operating systems. It features an Object-Oriented "jConduit" plug-in system to allow different applications to use it for their synchronization services.

    The two downsides currently with running the jSyncManager on the desktop are:

    • The jSyncManager relies upon external libraries to communicate with the hardware. For serial docks/cables it requires either the Java Communications API, or the Open Sourced jSerial API. For USB ports it requires jUSB [sourceforge.net]. jUSB is currently only readily available on Linux, with a partial implementation available on Windows. TCP/IP sync support is available on all platforms.
    • There aren't a whole lot of jConduit plug-ins available yet. The bundles ones provide generic functionality such as CSV and XML downloading of common PalmOS record types, the ability to upload PRC and PDB databases, the ability to export Zire 71 photos as JPG files, etc. However, if you're a Java-coder and want to write your own jConduit plug-in for your favorite PIM, documentation is available online, and support is readily available through the jSyncManager development community.

    Brad BARCLAY
    Lead Developer & Project Administrator,
    The jSyncManager Project.

    • That's all very nice and I'm sure it's the ants pants, but that's not what he was asking for was it?

      The JSyncManager sited doesn't even link to any conduits (let alone any PIM ones.)

      I'd suggest what I use, but I'm quite happy with Palm desktop. I think that's mainly because my palm is a bedtime games platform...

      • That's all very nice and I'm sure it's the ants pants, but that's not what he was asking for was it?

        Perhaps not directly. But iff the answer doesn't satisfy them, let them complain about it.

        Indirectly, it may solve their problem. I have no idea of knowing wether or not the user in question is a software developer -- they might be willing to write their own conduits to work with their favorite PIM, and the jSyncManager provides an extremely easy way to do just that.

        The JSyncManager sited doesn't ev

        • I always get a kick when a guy has to identify himself as being some sort of big-time developer on the project he's pimping (or the project the article's about).

          That said, Kpilot works great! KDE's PIM software is really coming along nicely, and KPilot works well with all of them. Furthermore, I've been reading all about the API for writing new conduits for KPilot, and it's awesome. Just override two methods and that's it, it'll just work. (Three if you *really* want an about dialog) According to the

          • I always get a kick when a guy has to identify himself as being some sort of big-time developer on the project he's pimping (or the project the article's about).

            Well, IMO it's much worse when someone pimps a project, but doesn't have the curteousy to inform people of their association with the project in question. By identifying my association with the project, my bias towards it is up-front and honest. To do otherwise would be Barkto all over again.

            I have an unrelated question for you. If you look a

      • Ignore the troll from Roman. I appreciated the info on JSyncManager. I'm not interested in an addressbook replacement (having been using DateBk for years) but have been very interested in an alternate conduit.

        So, yeah, the post about JSync *is* the Ant's Pants.

        Whatever the hell *that* means.
  • I think the biggest hurdle you'll run into is that the Palm itself has a rather limited data model for things like address book entries, dates, etc. Sure, you can make a PIM that does way more, and you'll find lots out there, but none will be able to reliably sync all your data to the palm. If you only use the palm to READ the data, you might be ok, but if you enter data on your palm it might be incomplete when it gets shipped back to the PC. Also, if you edit data on the palm you might break the "links"

    • Re:Limitations of the Palm (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Yaztromo ( 655250 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @09:42PM (#9448197) Homepage Journal
      Also, if you edit data on the palm you might break the "links" that the PC software maintains.

      This should only ever happen if you delete a record on the handheld and re-enter it, causing the new record to receive a different ID value. No properly-written synchronization module should cause any such breakage under normal conditions )ie: editing/modifying the data on the handheld) -- any that do are due purely to buggy code, and not the design of the PalmOS itself.

      Some developers who have written PIMs that weren't designed wih handheld synchronization in mind might try to use one of the fields as the unique record identifier, but this is wrong, and will cause the problem you mention if you change the field being used as the identity field. The proper mechanism for this is to create a mapping between the record ID values and the internal application record identifier.

      Please don't blame the PalmOS for things outside its control.

      Brad BARCLAY
      Lead Developer & Project Adminsitrator,
      The jSyncManager Project.

  • New Palm Desktop has what you're looking for (Score:4, Informative)

    by stu72 ( 96650 ) on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @09:23PM (#9448064)
    The newest version of the Palm desktop has a number of new features, including new contact fields - these will not migrate to an older palm (i.e. less than OS 5) but they stay on your desktop until you upgrade.

    I've been using the new desktop w/an older palm for a while and I'm pretty happy.

  • Why did you get a Palm, pray tell? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Craig Maloney ( 1104 ) * on Wednesday June 16, 2004 @10:53PM (#9448614) Homepage
    I know this might be construed as flamebait, but I'm quite sincere: why did you get a Palm in the first place? The simplicity of the Palm is one of the major draws for it, but it's no Outlook replacement by far. What it does, it does very well. What I've found with most software that tries to replace the Palm or Desktop software is that it either needlessly complicates the interface of the Palm, or features only exist on the desktop or Palm device. DateBk5 will allow you to link up contacts with appointments, but I haven't run across an application on the desktop that recognizes those links. There are several address book replacements, but the ones that go beyond the contact database of the Palm require special software, special conduits, and Windows. You can make the Palm Desktop work for you without a whole lot of additional software, but it might take some dilligence. Instead of making one contact name for a person, why not make two or three for their roles? If you need it, why not make a friend at home and a friend at work entry? You'll know the difference between them.

    As for linking entries to appointments, do you really need that, or is it just something that would be nice to have? Generally I've found that people who bitch about the Palm interface haven't really sat down to think about what they really need. They're too busy trying to micro-manage their lives instead of using the tool for what it's good for. They give themselves the illusion that they're really being productive because they have a list of all of the people involved with the appointment linked to their appointment. This functionality is mostly a toy, and after spending 20 minutes setting up an appointment and linking the contacts, most people give up on their organizer altogether.

    If you're seriously constrained by the Palm interface, you maay want to consider a different device. Perhaps a Pocket PC or something with a PIM that's more like Outlook would do better for you?

    Hope this helps!

    • One thing that makes the Palm a lot more linkable is Megawiki [freewarepalm.com]. Gives you something very close to hypertext, can link all kinds of records of various apps together. Highly useful.

    • DateBk5 will allow you to link up contacts with appointments, but I haven't run across an application on the desktop that recognizes those links

      Someone mentioned it above: Agendus for Palm OS and Agendus for Windows. (Or sync to ACT!.) I've been happily using this combination for several years and I'm quite happy with it. And the new version of Agendus allows multiple attendees at meetings.

      Someone else mentioned that the newest version of the Palm Desktop also allows or multiple addresses per conta

  • I've been very pleased with the Yahoo's free utility for HotSyncing my Palm with Yahoo Calendar, Addressbook and Notepad. Yahoo's tools have more features than Palm Desktop; plus, they can be accessed from any web browser.
  • I have had similar problems with both a palm and a zaurus. Neither were as useful as I had hoped. There is an application, not cheap, that provides much more usefulness for planning and contacts. FranklinCovey Planning Software provided me what I found lacking in other applications and provides Palm apps and sync conduits.
  • Hi, I hop this is not OT, but I'm really looking for an "as open as possible" solution to set up a Palm - Laptop and Server sync. AFAIK I could use KDE PIM and E-groupware for example but I haven't tried yet and I don't know if there are other solutions.. like Opengroupware.. any suggestion? thanks, Marco
  • When I bought my first handheld, I looked for every reason in the book to pick a Palm over a PocketPC. But I looked deep down inside myself and found that the most important task that I would do with the thing was sync with Outlook so that I could keep track of contacts, to-do lists, and compose email. PalmPilots didn't even come close. Everyone I knew that had PalmPilots bemoaned "synchronization" issues. So, PocketPC it was. And I've been happy since.
  • For the calendar, DateBk5 [pimlicosoftware.com] is almost indispensable - while the built-in Calendar in OS5 (at least on the T3) was a big improvement over the previous versions, DateBk5 adds a lot of additional nice features like floating appointments (a kind of To-Do), appointment categories with icons (OS5 add categories and colors, but no icons), "advance" notice of appointments and a range of other things. Agendus (suggested elsewhere) may do similar things, and does have the advantage of an available desktop component as
  • If you're willing to spend money, Agendus [iambic.com] is a nice solution. Very contact orientated and takes care of the Palm side. There also Agendus for Windows [iambic.com] which has the corrosponding functionality on the desktop. It's well worth the money if you're into these sort of things.

    Someone else mentioned DateBk5 [pimlicosoftware.com], which is more task orientated.

    If you just want desktop access to multiple addresses, try the latest version of Palm Desktop [palmone.com]. But this won't solve the handheld-side problem...

    Finally, why not Outlook? Yes, it
    • I second the motion for Agendus and Agendus for Windows. Can't live without them. Amazingly compact and functional and well-thought-out. I've used Agendus on my Palms since 1998. The Agendus for Windows desktop application is only a couple years old.

      Agendus for Windows does not have custom conduits. It works with the existing Palm HotSync conduits, and stores all the data in a Palm- and Palm Desktop-native format. One less thing to go wrong, and one less problem to troubleshoot.

  • DateBk5 [pimlicosoftware.com] by Pimlico Software [pimlicosoftware.com] is exactly what you are looking for and I cannot recommend it enough.

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