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Biotech

Has Anyone Tried Corneal Reshaping? 63

Posted by Cliff from the alternatives-to-phasered-retinas dept.
bgraziano asks: "I'm looking into alternatives to LASIK and I'm investigating corneal reshaping. This involves wearing contact lenses at night to reshape my eyes to address nearsightedness and astigmatism. I've found lots of vendor sites but I can't find any first hand accounts from people going through the process. Has anyone tried this? Are you aware of any links to first hand accounts of people that have tried it?"
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Has Anyone Tried Corneal Reshaping? More

Has Anyone Tried Corneal Reshaping?

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  • Neighbor doing it (Score:4, Informative)

    by deque_alpha ( 257777 ) <qhartman AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:21PM (#9881247) Journal
    A nidghbor of mine is doing it, and he says the lenses are really uncomfortable. Seems to be working for him tho. *add salt here*.

  • Back in the early '80s... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RobertB-DC ( 622190 ) * on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:27PM (#9881327) Homepage Journal
    Finally, an excuse to share a story from "back in the day".

    I was a teenager delivering advertising circulars in Tulsa, and I stopped to chat (a frequent occurrence) with an old guy with cool gadgets in his garage. After a while, he showed me his favorite unsung invention... a tiny blade mounted on a circular track in a spherically-faced plastic housing.

    He described for me how this device could be used to reshape the cornea -- make a shallow circular incision, and the eye would reshape itself. Voila, corrected vision without contacts or glasses!

    But nobody was interested in his invention, he said.

    Ten years later, radial keratotomy [eyemdlink.com] was all the rage... the only difference from the old man's method, really, was that the incisions were made radially instead of circularly.

    And that was soon followed by any number of friggin'-laser-assisted procedures that all built on an idea I first heard about in the early '80s from a crazy old guy in a garage in Tulsa. I wonder if he's still around... I got the impression he wouldn't be bitter that his crazy idea turned into something big after all.

    • Very late (Score:3, Informative)

      by ivanandre ( 265129 )
      Sorry, but the radial keratotomy method was developed back in the 50&#180;s by a Colombian (yes, Colombian-Spaniard) doctor called Mr. Barraquer.

      His history is very interesting... he funded "Cl&#237;nica Barraquer", a leader institution in eye surgery research...

  • Popular Science ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by sparkie ( 60749 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:29PM (#9881344) Homepage
    Did a review of these. You can find their glowing review here http://www.popsci.com/popsci/medicine/article/0,12 543,658680,00.html

  • mom did it (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:34PM (#9881385)
    My mom got to the point where she was having to wear contacts *and* glasses at the same time and started looking into ways to improve her vision. She went through two or three years of Precise Corneal Molding. She already wore hard contacts, so she didn't have any trouble adjusting to the molds. She had to go back to the optometrist pretty often to get progress checked and to get new molds. After about three years, her vision has improved dramatically, though not to 20-20.

    Given her experience, I think it would certainly be worth a try. She had no trouble with the molds, she stuck to the prescribed treatment, and she got vastly improved vision with no lasers or other invasive procedures. Don't know what more you could ask.

  • Lasting results (Score:4, Informative)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:40PM (#9881436) Journal
    The only problem I know if, is the results dont last, this is why you need to correct every night. But it does work.

    This is one of the reasons I just put with glasses, I don't want to chance my eye-sight with nightvision problems with lasik. And I dont want to wear corrective lenses at night while I sleep.
  • So, I'm sorry that I can't give you a first hand account as yet, but I will once I go through with it. It's still a bit tough to find many doctors or offices who do it, but you can find a list on paragon's website:
    http://www.paragoncrt.com
    You'd also be hard pressed to find an insurance company that will cover it, as yet, but that will come around in time.
    As far as I'm concerned, it's *the* option: totally reversible, no dry eyes, no contacts in the daytime, the only drawback is the hassle of cleani
    • My wife is doing Paragon CRT, and it's been great for her. Basically there have been almost no bad points and plenty of good ones. If you can wear contacts already, go for it.

      Bad
      * If she had a short night of sleep and only got to wear them for 4 or 5 hours, then her vision sometimes gets a little worse by the evening from not being corrected long enough.

      * They are hard contacts. Those can be uncomfortable for some people, but they don't bother my wife. If you've worn contacts before, it probably won't
  • It's funny, I've got clients all over the country, but it seems like many of the ones in California have had it and none of the ones outside of CA have had it.


    The second hand reports I've had from people who've done it is that they love it. I'd do it myself if I had the money, although I'd like some testimonials from amateur astronomers first. Older surgeries, such as RK, were problematic at night.

  • Orthokeratology (Score:3, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @02:56PM (#9881586)
    This is commonly referred to as orthokeratology. The FDA just approved a form of this called CRT, or corneal refractive therapy. Note that the procedure is not that new, it is the FDA approval that is new. You can search pubmed [nih.gov] to find relevant literature on these techniques(searching for "orthokeratology" will provide you with plenty of results).
  • You might try here [slashdot.org].
  • But I am the only one who wears glasses and thinks women with glasses are sexy?

  • re: Has Anyone Tried Corneal Reshaping? (Score:3, Informative)

    by rocket rancher ( 447670 ) <themovingfinger@gmail.com> on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:06PM (#9881667)
    Corneal reshaping (popularly, Ortho-k) is a temporary fix, and in my experience, a very painful fix. Special hard contact lenses are produced that literally mold your eyeball into a shape that compensates for specific deficits in your visual acuity. It can address myopia and farsightedness, but not astigmatism.

    I underwent ortho-k 25 years ago in order to pass a flight physical for the USAF. It brought my eyes to 20/20 and kept them there for 30 days. USAF regs require removal of contacts 30 days prior to a flight physical. Once you pass the physical and get trained, it doesn't matter if your visual acuity eventually goes south -- by the time you are ready to strap on an F-15, they have too much invested in you to DQ you because of your bad eyesight. Cheaper to grind lenses for your O2 mask.

    But, man I don't ever want to go through that again. I wore them every day for six months. I had a 5 minute reprieve every hour to lubricate my eyes. The pain was constant and non-trivial. Unless you are looking to become a commercial or military pilot, don't bother with Ortho-k. After I left the Air Force, I got LASIK, and I am hugely satisfied with it.

  • Best Money I ever spent (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cornjones ( 33009 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:18PM (#9881791) Homepage
    The title is the short version.

    My recommendations first and then maybe a short version of the story.

    Schedule appts w/ a couple of doctors. I ended up seeing nearly 20 before I chose. You will learn alot about the process. Plus, if you have a stigmatism you get a cool 3d picture of exactly how it looks (mine was hourglass shaped)

    Being a comp guy, I decided that the most important factor for me was to get the kewl laser. At my time it was the Visx S3. All teh doctors will tell you they have the coolest laser so do some research. The key points, as I recall, were that the laser tracked and pulsed 10k times/sec (so if I moved my eye it would adjust) and the width of the beam. My pupil was large so I needed a large laser to help minimize the potential for the halo effect at night.

    Docs were charging anywere from 500 - 5000 / eye. I ended up w/ a guy at 1800 for both and was very happy. He was in teh same office (same equipment) as one of the 5000/eye guys.

    I don't know how much the doc really does. Supposedly, he takes your measurements (perscription, stigmatism, corneal depth) and plugs them into some equation that is fed to the computer. Supposedly, coming up w/ the equation is the "artful" part.

    The actual procedure was daunting but fairly painless. I got to the waiting room and spent a few minutes after check in telling myself how stupid I was to be fucking w/ my sight. Glasses aren't so bad, better than being blind, etc...

    I was called in and they did the final bits of tests, the long one was to test peripheral vision.

    After all the tests they gave me some valium and told me to relax for a bit. About 1/2 hour later, it was time to get zapped. I went into the room and layed down in the chair. they covered me up and gave me a small stuffed teddy bear. Seemed odd at the time but I was fairly glad I had it later. A TV screen above displayed a 27in close up view of my eye. My ex, watching from teh other room, snapped a pic (w/ flash) and got yelled at by the doctor. Then we began.

    He administered a bunch of drops of various drugs. He puts a speculum kind of thing around my eye to keep my eyelids out of the way. Then, he brought out the cutter (don't remember the technical term, i would proably opt for the laser version now, they were too new when I did it). He warns me that I am giong to feel some pressure and then my vision is giong to either blur or go out completely. This is basically what glaucoma is I guess. Sure enough, I felt some pressure and bang! complete blackness in that eye. (i think my other eye was covered at this point. i was much more worried about the eye w/ the speculum though so I don't recall) The cutting tool is built into the "pressure giver". I hear a whir and feel a blade go around my eye in a circle. I was anestitized (sp?) but not hurting is not the same as not feeling it. That was fairly scary (but not the worst part).

    He pulled the cutter off and I could see the lights above again. My sight came back more or less instantly. Then he reached in w/ a tool and flipped the top of my cornea back. Everything went super blurry and my grip on teh bear tightened.

    "Your only job for the next 45 seconds is to look at the red light and DON'T MOVE", ordered teh doc. I looked at the red light and resolved myself to completely immobility. I think the doc even held my head.

    The laser made a loud "TAC-TAC-TAC-TAC" and a smell of burning cat drifted to my nostrils. This was definitely the scariest part. This went on for maybe 30 seconds.

    A bunch more drops and then he flipped my cornea back down. Holy shit, I can see. I could already tell the lights above me were much clearer.

    This whole procedure took maybe 3-4 minutes, max. Then we did teh other eye. I was out of there in less than 10 minutes.

    They taped big swisscheesed plstic eyeshields to my face and sent me to a dark room to lie down. By this point, the adreline was definitely beating the valium b
    • I would love to have this done but I can't imagine how I would react to someone cutting my eyes open... I am not normally a sqeamish person but reading that just made me SQUIRM.
      • Heh. I friend of mine's wife had her eyes done, they video taped it and SENT IT HOME. I only saw it once, that was more than I needed.

        _eye fills screen_
        _blink_
        _blink_
        _tool comes in_
        *SNICK*
        *ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP*

        AHHHHH!!!
    • That was BRUTAL! I've never read anything that's made me more uncomfortable, ever! *VERY* interesting, but ouch! +1 Painful.

    • Mod Parent Down - Off-topic (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Being a comp guy, I decided that the most important factor for me was to get the kewl laser. At my time it was the Visx S3...

      So you didn't read the question, I see. Are we talking about lasers or LASIK? No. We're talking about corneal reshaping.

      Please get either your eyes or your education checked, because you apparently cannot read.

      • It was really that hard to just skip the post when you saw it was about LASIK, eh? I'm interested in corneal reshaping or possibly corrective surgery, and I'm sure I'm not alone. While the thread is primarily about reshaping, I think the post about something so closely related was not particularly out of place, and I appreciated the detailed description.

    • Re:Best Money I ever spent (Score:4, Funny)

      by yo5oy ( 549821 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @08:08PM (#9884697)
      What bothered me most is that you knew what a burning cat smelled like.
    • I'm someone who's had to wear glasses for about ten years now. About 4 years back I initially tried out some contact lenses, but they didn't correct my astigmatism (meant I could see things at a distance but they didn't appear focused). I gave up on them and until recently, kept with my glasses.

      The new contact lenses I have correct my astigmatism and as an added bonus, are tinted too. The freedom and avoidance of the 'geeky look' is well worth the ongoing cost for replacement contacts.

      I've really wanted t
      • Yeah, long term effect is definitely a large concern. I am banking on us being able to grow me a new eyeball by the time these concerns become real. We have roughly 20 years of experience w/ these so far and nothing has changed. The procedure is to burn out a bit of material in teh mid cornea. Supposedly, after a year or two, there is no scar and a doc can't even tell it happened (by looking through a microscope). This may mean, there will be no long term effects (other than the improved sight).

        As a g
    • Thank you so much. I'm blinder than a bat- no I don't mean a little bit. This will only mean anything to someone who is nearsighted and understands these numbers. Anyways, my perscription is -13.5 and -14. That falls into the "Holy Shiiit" category. Can't go too much blinder- been waiting to do LASIK and it's nice to hear what's involved. Thanks.
      • The biggest question for a prescription like yours is how thick your cornea is. Go to one of these eye docs and he will to a corneal thickness measurement. He needs to have enough cornea to reshape sufficiently to fix your prescription and still have enough of a "buffer zone" to be safe. They will know if they are in the range after a 10 minute visit.

        good luck

  • concerns (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TimButterfield ( 16686 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:18PM (#9881792) Homepage

    Scenario: Eyes changing at an inopportune time such operating a motor vehicle (car, plane, etc.) in conditions of marginal visibility. Having your eyes change at a time like this can be a lethal combination.

    From what I have read, the change is temporary and the eye returns to normal after not wearing them. In the beginning, this change is within a day. Is the change gradual or instantaneous change? I am concerned about being between 20/20 and my normal nearsighted vision so that I cannot see clearly with or without my glasses, or with only one eye and not the other.

    After having worn them for a while and getting used to not needing my glasses during the day, will I still need to carry my glasses/contacts 'just in case' my eyes decide to change back? If I have to carry my glasses all the time 'just in case' they can change, I might at well just wear them.

    • Re:concerns (Score:2, Informative)

      by R2.0 ( 532027 )
      Betcherass - it happened to me.

      I've been wearing gas permeable lenses for over 20 years, since grade school, in order to slow the progression of my nearsightedness. One result is that, when I take out my lenses, I can still see a little bit, but if they satay out for a while, my vision gets worse - REAL fast.

      I was unaware of this until I broke a contact lens right before a driving trip to New Hampshire (at night). No problem, I just grabbed my glasses. Just around New York I noticed that I couldnn'r re
    • From what I have read, the change is temporary and the eye returns to normal after not wearing them. In the beginning, this change is within a day. Is the change gradual or instantaneous change?

      It's fairly gradual. Your eyeballs won't just pop back into their original shape all of a sudden, although that paints a pretty funny mental image.
      As for the treatment itself, they recommend that you get an "intermediate" pair of eyeglasses for the interim week that your eyes are adjusting, and no doubt this wo

  • Wha... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Gleng ( 537516 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:23PM (#9881841)
    I thought that said "Cornhole Reshaping" for a moment. Damn glasses!

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Informative)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @03:44PM (#9882042)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • CRT (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Bonewalker ( 631203 ) on Wednesday August 04, 2004 @04:10PM (#9882275)
    My boss just started this procedure last night. Her first night with the re-shaping contacts went well. Her vision was 100% in one eye, and 85% in the other, according to her doctor at the appointment this morning.

    She said she slept fine, and has gone the whole day without her glasses. Apparently, after the first two weeks she will only need to wear the contacts at night once every three or four days.

    Not a bad trade off for close to 20/20 vision.

    • Did she wear contacts or glasses before she started? If she'd contact [billgraziano.com] me directly I'd be interested to hear what she's thinks of it.
      • She has worn glasses for 45 years. Never had contacts before.

        I'll see if she is ready to share her experience and point her in your direction, if so.

  • in the laser story...

    the short version about this from memory from there: it's good if you don't have really bad vision and don't expect it to last all day.

    I'm kinda curious how would driving a car fit this scenario though(because if you have bad vision you need to wear glasses.. because if your vision keeps changing then you're going to be at a point where your glasses are totally wrong for your current eyesight but you still don't see without them).

  • I had it. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I used corneal reshaping for six years. From 12 to 18 years of age. Over those six years my vision did not change. This says a lot with all of the changes that happen during puberty.

    But I did eventually switch to glasses going into college. There were a couple of reasons for this change.

    I figured that in college I would not always be getting a enough sleep, and I did not want to go around the next day with bad eyesight.

    One of the biggest drawbacks is the comfort of the contacts. I was not able to wa
    • Oh yeah, it is annoying at the DMV.

      DMV "Do you require perscription lenses"
      Me "Yes"
      DMV "Do you have them in now"
      ME "No, well actually I wear mine at night..."
      Well, you just answered the question wrong. The answer is "No". You can see fine without having them in. My wife just got the corrective lenses restriction taken off her license, and she just had to take their vision test to prove it.

  • I've been using CRT lenses (Score:3, Informative)

    by BusterD ( 551755 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @02:11AM (#9886412)
    I started using CRT contact lenses in december of 2003. I had been using -4.5 and -4 contacts in my left and right eyes respectively and within a few days of wearing the paragon CRT lenses my vision was perfect.

    Here is my list of pros and cons from wearing them for 7 months

    + They actually give me perfect vision for most of the day.
    + No pain or surgeries.
    + Your vision can return to normal in about 2 weeks if you don't like them.

    - I'm used to soft contacts, these felt like rocks at first. Even now they are uncomfortable to wear if I am active and about doing stuff.
    - I sometimes sleep with my eyes open so these things dry to my eyeballs and it gets difficult to take them off in the morning, a few times I had to flush my eyes with contact solution for 15 minutes to loosen them up.
    - At night, my vision fades a bit and I see halos around light sources , esp car headlights. Since the lenses don't cover the entire cornea, my periphial vision (everything else besides what I'm directly looking at gets a bit fuzzy) This is the suckiest thing about them.
    - I've been to see my eye doctor many times since december for checkups. He has switched my lense prescriptions 3 times because the current pair wasn't a perfect fit anymore.
    - Expensive

    Despite all the negatives, I'd highly recommend the paragon CRT lenses for anyone who is considering lasik or who is fed up with regular contact lenses. The convenience of perfect vision during the day is way worth the price and hassle of fussing with contacts at night.

    In my case, I sleep with my eyes open plus I get dry eyes when I wear contacts however 4 out of 5 days my vision is 20/20 or better. The other 1 out of 5 days my left or right eye is off a bit. Its annoying but I get used to it for a few hours and usually the eye somehow corrects itself in the early afternoon.

  • You may want to look into Wavefront LASIK [aao.org] instead of corneal reshaping, as it is shown to provide better vision than that you currently experience with glasses/contacts. The U.S. Air Force has been researching it for pilots for some time with great results. It is estimated the technology will allow 20/10 vision by the year 2010.
  • The CFO in my company uses them. He loves them. Said they were uncomfortable as hell at first, but once he got used to them he was able to sleep with them on (it took a while, though). But he did say he'll never go back to glasses/contacts.

    Personally I think they're damned expensive, so it figures that one of our execs is the only person in the company that uses them :)
  • I've been doing it for about 6 months now. I've had several problems, but that is due to the fact I also suffer from Corneal Erosion, which more or less, is that my eyes don't tear at night. So they get REALLY dry, and it is easy for me to rip my out cornea layer. I have a pretty good eye doctor, and he managed to get some REALLY thin ones, that are wider than the normal ones, and this has helped me tons. I also put drops in everytime I wake up, just to make sure. And drinking causes some problems due
  • Intacs [allaboutvision.com] are corneal implants that are removable (reversable), offering most of the benefits of LASIK without some of the risks.

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