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The Almighty Buck Businesses

Employees Rights in an Emergency? 174

Posted by Cliff from the environmental-or-otherwise dept.
Waiting-for-Ivan asks: "In Florida in the past month and a half, we have survived 2 hurricanes. During the last one I was within the areas with a hurricane warning (i.e. hurricane conditions are expected within 24 hours). My company (who will remain unnamed) wanted everyone to come in. Those who did not come in had their pay docked (salary or hourly didn't matter) and threatened with loss of their pay for Labor Day. We are not an emergency facility whose services are required during an emergency. Is this legal? Can they make us come in during a hurricane warning (or any other environmental emergency) and if we refuse can they punish us for not doing so? Do we as employees have any rights (and can they dock salaried employees so easily)? What laws are in affect explaining these circumstances?
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Employees Rights in an Emergency? More

Employees Rights in an Emergency?

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  • on the strength of the storm/etc
    there should be explicit laws about that in your area.
    • You can take the law into your own hand by organizing a union! If your employer wants to play the bullshit game show them that you can play it too.
      • you know, the real world doesn't work like the public sector. shit, did i say "work" and "public sector" in the same sentence? anyways, in the real world, you are paid by people to work. can they make you suck toilet water through a straw while naked, and make you sing the Marseilles (which would be the worst part!!)? no. but, what if they had sensitive data? what if they had customers with urgent needs. what if lots of things. employee/employer relationships go both ways. if the work conditions ar

  • Looks like you don't have any, but... (Score:5, Informative)

    by tao_of_biology ( 666898 ) * <tao.of.biologyNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:51PM (#10208690)
    First, the obligatory IANAL... Now that that is out of the way.

    It is implied on this page [miamidade.gov] that they don't HAVE to give you the day off. It reads:

    All county employees who are not Hurricane Frances mission-critical should not report to work on Friday, September 3rd in order to prepare themselves and their families. Private employers are urged to provide their employees the same flexibility.

    Judging by that, it's more of a suggestion than a requirement... But I also found this on this page [law.com]:

    South Florida's labor and employment lawyers got some unexpected business, thanks to Hurricane Frances and Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle. As the storm threatened South Florida over the weekend, Rundle and County Mayor Alex Penelas publicly warned employers that they could face criminal prosecution for forcing employees to work during the hurricane.

    So, it sounds like people are suing for being forced to work during the hurricane, which might be a slightly different situation than yours.

    Sounds to me like your employer is just a major league ahole, and you might not be able to do anything about it.

    • Re:Looks like you don't have any, but... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Interesting...

      I know someone who works in the Miami-Dade school district, and apparently all the teachers were asked to go in to work on Friday (the kids were told not to come in, though). I think the public schools are handled differently from the rest of the county, but nevertheless, it's still sounded a bit ridiculous.

      • This happens in NY a few times each winter. Public schools are closed (due to snow), but the faculty and staff are still required to show.

        But not every time (or even most times) the school is closed. Most of the time it's closed and no one is supposed to show up.
        • This happens in NY a few times each winter. Public schools are closed (due to snow), but the faculty and staff are still required to show.

          The rationale for this discrepancy is that children and teenagers are at greater risk than adults during bad weather. When conditions are bad enough that other employers are telling their people to stay home, schools usually do the same with theirs.

  • Workers' rights? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by macdaddy357 ( 582412 ) <macdaddy357@hotmail.com> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:51PM (#10208691)
    Workers' rights? You must have forgotten that you live in the United States of Avarice. Now grab your pick axe, and get back to mining that salt.

  • Rights???? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by sfjoe ( 470510 )
    Do we as employees have any rights...

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA

    oh stop, you're killing me.

    • Re:Rights???? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Well, he does have one right. . .

      If he's smart he'll use it and explain to his boss why he's leaving.

  • Varies by state (Score:5, Informative)

    by rot26 ( 240034 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:52PM (#10208698) Homepage Journal
    Florida is a "right to work" state, meaning that they can terminate you for pretty much anything OTHER than race/age/sex/religion (i.e. things explicitly covered by law.) As far as docking pay, that's also legal, as long as your weekly average hourly wage (pay/hours) doesn't fall below federal minimum wage.

    It's a weasely thing to do but there's probably not anything you can do about it.

    • Re:Varies by state (Score:3, Interesting)

      by gcaseye6677 ( 694805 )
      Just because a state has "right to work" laws does not mean that employees cannot sue for wrongful termination. Even without a discrimination claim, companies can be sued for terminating someone in a way that can be proven to be retaliatory or extremely unfair. Normally when such suits are filed, the company will settle with the employee rather than take their chances in court where guilt is presumed and they have to prove themselves innocent. Employment law generally works this way. With a settlement, comp
    • Florida is a "right to work" state, meaning that they can terminate you for pretty much anything OTHER than race/age/sex/religion (i.e. things explicitly covered by law.)

      Isn't obeying a government order to stay off the roads unless you're an emergency response person something "explicitly covered by law"?

  • Similar situation last year (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Dr.Evil ( 47264 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:53PM (#10208705) Homepage
    My company has a policy that we're "always open." Last year, we experienced a blizzard so severe that the city issued tickets to any non-emergency vehicles on the road. The power at the building was also knocked out. Yet when we got back to work, we were expected to make up the time or use Paid Time Off. The excuse made by management was, "Sometimes you have to use you PTO benefit for the company's benefit." (!)

    I'd been working there all of a month, or I probably would have contacted a lawyer. If it happens again, I'll definitely be exploring a class-action suit. In a state of emergency, when it's not safe to go to work, it's completely unreasonable to expect employees to come in. If it's not illegal, it ought to be. If I were you, I'd contact a lawyer.

    • ... expected to make up the time or use Paid Time Off./em>

      I'm just curious, what the hell does 'Paid Time Off' in your company mean? Does it cut off your vacation hours, or something? Over here (So. Cal.) it seems to be the time to charge on your timecard for the times when you can not work due to some external circumstances and the company is _paying_ for your _time_off_, thus 'Paid'... Do they have any other definition in the "blizzard-experiencing " ;-) states?

      Paul B.

      • Re:Similar situation last year (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Prior Restraint ( 179698 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @11:00PM (#10209222)

        I can't speak for Dr.Evil, but "Paid Time Off" at my employer is any time you take off from work and expect to be paid. That means sick time, vacation, and emergencies.

        On 9/11, just about everyone in IT who had direct reports sent all of their subordinates home, since we were all just running to whoever's browser managed to get through to cnn.com or wherever. The next day, there was a company-wide email from HR saying that Yes, yes, it's quite a tragedy, but anyone sent home without at least director-level approval had to use PTO to make up the time not in the office. I was one of the lucky ones in that case, but there were a lot of pissed off people in other parts of the building.

        • Re:Similar situation last year (Score:5, Insightful)

          by mpmansell ( 118934 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @05:33AM (#10210747)
          I don't know about the US, but if I tell an employee to take the day off because of circumstances, it is not his responsibility and he can still expect to get paid.

          If I am told by my boss to take the day off, then I will expect to be paid. If it is a problem for the company then it is their problem if they cannot control the chain of command.

          If a company doesn't accept it, then I suspect that all employees getting director level confirmation of any management request will soon cure them of that silliness and make them more consistent in their interpretation of the command chain :)
      • Paid Time Off is a system many employers use rather than distinguishing between vacations, sick days, personal days, and sometimes holidays. The way it works is that each employee is given X hours of PTO, and how they use that time is up to them. It's a nice bonus for employees who don't get sick (they can get the time off without having to fake illness), and it can be a blessing for employees with unexpected health problems that would exceed a typical "sick day" allotment and they didn't get prior "vacat
    • If I'd been there just a month I would have bailed immediately. You want to work for a company like that? You should consider yourself lucky for finding out quickly what kind of management the place had and run the other way.
      • The market being what it is, I was lucky to be gainfully employed for the first time in 18 months. Besides, in general, they're a pretty good company - I've been there 18 months now, and it's really my only complaint. That doesn't mean it's not a big beef for me still, but certainly not enough to risk another long unemployment streak.
    • Whoah that sucks.

      We had a scheduled power outage a few weeks back at my company... nothing special, the power company were just replacing a local transformer or something, scheduled to take most of the day.

      Everyone here got the day off, with pay.

      Funny thing was, the power company decided on the day that the maintenance couldn't be done until a couple of weeks later! :-)

      At least that time it was out of office hours...
      • Heh. I didn't even know there were scheduled power outages, especially not ones taking so long - I'd have figured they'd either have redundant systems or put up a backup of sorts while the maintenance takes place. But then I only just experienced a real power outage for the first time, for an hour or so - I left the house and it was back up by the time I was home, when construction workers nearby dug into the power cable supplying most of the street. (Oops!)
    • Dr.Evil writes:
      Last year, we experienced a blizzard so severe that the city issued tickets to any non-emergency vehicles on the road. The power at the building was also knocked out. Yet when we got back to work, we were expected to make up the time or use Paid Time Off. The excuse made by management was, "Sometimes you have to use you PTO benefit for the company's benefit."

      My answer would have been "Sure, I'll start that as soon as you use your profits to buy me a car."

      Labor Unions; the only thing betwe
    • It makes complete sense to me that you don't get paid for time that you don't work -- but if you've been putting in extra hours, anyways, then it's time for the company to eat it's own crow. (rather than mandating that the 'makeup clock starts now', which is what it sounds like.)

      As for retaliation for not risking your life for a non emergency-critical job, Them's probably lawsuit words.

      In Canada, I think that most provinces have rules that don't allow employers to force employes to put their safety at r

    • Our company is moving in November. All of those who are not part of the move (700 people) are _required_ to take vacation for the 10 days that it takes (6 business days). Sucks. Of course, we get 25 days a year, so that helps...

  • I left early (Score:5, Interesting)

    by BroadbandBradley ( 237267 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:55PM (#10208736) Homepage
    I live in Florida in an area that was sure to be hit by Charley, I left Thursday and got a hotel room for me and my family ( I live 1 block from the Gulf in a low lying area). My work was open that Thursday until 3PM when the "Official" notice came to leave. The hotel I found was full that night and had I waited to leave until I was Allowed to by my employer I would've had a tough time finding a room and may have had to sit in an evacuation center for a few days. Anyhow, I did get a "Written Notice" from my employer for not coming in that day which I signed with a note saying that my family comes before my job.

    The good news is that I hated that job and I quit today anyhow. (they're sleazy snakes) all in all, F any employer that asks you to stand in harms way so they can make a buck. If more people took this approach employers would have to be more considerate. I'd guess your employer is a publicly traded company, where Money is the only diety.
    • Me and my department-mates are putting up with that same thing now. As the "System Support" desk, we're the only department that is here 24/7. Apparently, we're also the only department that is REQUIRED to be here during the storms. Yes, I work in the medical field. No, nothing we do is critical (we're not a care facility). Failure to show up as scheduled during a disaster is immediately considered job abandonment. It truly sucks.

  • Talk to an employment lawyer about this! (Score:5, Informative)

    by aidoneus ( 74503 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:57PM (#10208748) Journal
    Seriously! This is far beyond the realm of an "Ask Slashdot"! I can see wanting to get a feeling for the experiences of others, but how many times did you ask "is it legal"? Laws may vary from region to region, but I cannot imagine in an area that is about to become a disater area that your employer would be allowed to do this.

    That being said, TALK TO A LAWYER ABOUT THIS. You should be able to get at least a reasonably cheap 15-30 minute consult to get the answer you need. Also, talk to the appropriate parts of your state's government, ie THESE GUYS [state.fl.us].

    Hope that helps.

    -jason

  • Call your state attorney (Score:5, Informative)

    by segvio ( 540235 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:58PM (#10208759)
    During the hurricane a state official was on the television reporting that many similar events had occurred. She mentioned to call the state attorney. The relevant information is available at http://myfloridalegal.com/contact [myfloridalegal.com] or you can just call 1-866-966-7226.
    • As many have suggested, talk to an lawyer who understands employment law. In my state, docking a salaried employee based on hours missed has been construed by the courts as making them hourly, and therefore non-exempt for overtime purposes.

  • What about the hidden costs of having you come in? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by AnwerB ( 255422 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @09:59PM (#10208770)
    Whether it's legal or not, the management must be fools not to consider what this does to morale!

    I guess it's harder to quantify human resources, enthusiasm, and loyalty than missed hours...

  • What I found (Score:4, Informative)

    by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:04PM (#10208804) Homepage Journal
    There's a mention at Law.com that reads:
    Storm Brews Over Employer Liability for Workers Called In During Hurricane Frances

    Storm Brews Over Employer
    09-08-2004

    South Florida's labor and employment lawyers got some unexpected business, thanks to Hurricane Frances and Miami-Dade State Attorney Katherine Fernandez Rundle. As the storm threatened South Florida over the weekend, Rundle and County Mayor Alex Penelas publicly warned employers that they could face criminal prosecution for forcing employees to work during the hurricane."

    Unfortunately, the full article requires a subscription. So I went to the Miami Daily Business Review site and they require a subscription as well. Off to the Google News Search! [google.com]

    The Sun-Sentinel has an article! [sun-sentinel.com] Here's a snippet:

    In Broward, 19 employees from seven employers have called the county's hurricane hotline to report they thought they were being required to work during unsafe weather conditions or face firing... "There is no state or federal law that gives employees the legal right to not come into work," Caulkin said, although he said he thinks most companies tend to be accommodating toward workers' needs during storms.
    So apparently there's nothing in law, but you might be able to put a little fear in your employers pants by calling the hurricane hotline. Good luck!
    • the thing is, that in most cases requiring you to work in a potentially hazardous environment would be considered quite illegal.

      (yeah I would guess that even in the mighty usa you have work safety regulations that must be met!)

    • Re:What I found (Score:5, Interesting)

      by HughsOnFirst ( 174255 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:37PM (#10209065)
      here is something
      Employers Could Face Civil, Criminal Liabilities [local10.com]


      POSTED: 6:17 pm EDT September 4, 2004
      MIAMI -- Some employees concerned about being forced to go to work have contacted Local 10 for answers.

      Local 10 has received e-mails and phone calls from people who say they are being forced to leave their homes to go to work even though the area is under hurricane evacuation order.

      Saturday, State Attorney Katherine Fernandez-Rundle and Miami-Dade County Mayor Alex Penelas addressed those concerns.

      Penelas reiterated that no one should be out on the highways and no employer should be forcing employees to go to work unless they are "essential" workers such as medical care workers or law enforcement officers.

      Fernandez-Rundle told Local 10's Michael Putney that employers who ignore the county's request and won't do it "for good will and to protect others" should obey the request because they could face both civil and criminal liabilities if an employee is hurt due to being out in th

      e storm.
      • ...they could face both civil and criminal liabilities if an employee is hurt due to being out in the storm.

        A non-essential company that's sleezy enough to force people to come in during a hurricane warning, when the government is telling people to stay home or otherwise seek shelter, probably isn't going to be that worried about could and if. If they think they can make money, and the odds of an employee being hurt are low, they'll do it.

  • Why should the company have to pay you? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by shaka999 ( 335100 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:14PM (#10208888)
    It would be one thing if your company had said anyone who didn't show up would be fired but that doesn't sound like what happened. From your description it sounds like the employeer just wasn't going to pay you for time you weren't at work.

    The question is ... why should they? Are they really taking anything away from you if you didn't work. If you didn't work then the money you would have gotten isn't yours. They didn't take anything.
    • Because he's a salaried employee- his working agreement is he makes $x/year. If that ends up being fewer days due to natural disasters than the employer expected, thats the employers fault for making a contract offer vs an hourly offer.
      • He also said they would be docking hourly employees as well. Which I interpreted as meaning that an hourly employee would:
        • A. not get paid
        • B. Also be docked on the next check.
        Personally, I'd just walk into the decision makers offer, say a few choice words, and walk out.
    • It would be one thing if your company had said anyone who didn't show up would be fired but that doesn't sound like what happened.

      In some cases, it is though. (See my post above)

  • Why should they? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by shaka999 ( 335100 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:16PM (#10208900)
    Why should your employeer pay you for time you didn't work? They didn't dock you anything. If you didn't work they don't owe you the money for said work.

    It would be a totally different matter if they had said you would loose your job if you didn't come in.
    • Thing is, from what the submitter said, they're docking salaried workers as well.

      THAT I find reprehensible. If you're hourly, you may have the opportunity to make up lost wages by working extra hours, overtime, etc. Salaried workers have no such recourse.

      I *can* see requiring the use of a vacation/sick day for the day(s) taken. In fact, I think I'd expect that.

      But all that being said, it would be a nice gesture - nice, but not required - for the company to show some compassion for those affected by th
      • I'd agree on the vacation/sick day. That seems fair all around.

        Since we know nothing about the company with this policy I would shy away from calling it reprehensible. Who knows, maybe its a small company on the brink. Having said company cover all the costs of a natural disaster is much different then a larger corporation.

        Ideally a company would think first about its employees and tell them to stay home and take care of business. I know mine would.
        • Honestly, I have read the OP a few times and this really doesn't look like a genuine complaint.

          Can't be - a fourth of all computer guys are on the streets out of a job and this guy is publicly bitching about whether or not his employer should pay him a full day's wages if he doesn't come in because of the hurricane ... OP - you stupid fuck, get in your car, drive your family to safer grounds for a few days, come back to see if your house is still standing, then drive to see if your company is still intact
    • If he's hourly, I'd agree, however if he is paid salery then it the employer should have to pay. After all, they take advantage of saleried employees all the time (extra hours), so if someone can't make it in then the employer should eat the cost (give and take).
      Otherwise, they should the back-pay for unpaid overtime.
      • Not that its ever put into practice, but if your a salaried employee I think a company is required to pay you the same no matter how many hours you work in a single day. So, if you show up for 1 hour they have to pay you the same as if you worked 10.

        Of course you'd soon be fired but .....

  • Everytime I hear someone joke about (Score:4, Funny)

    by xutopia ( 469129 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:17PM (#10208907) Homepage
    France's low GDP compared to the USA I have stories like these that crop to mind.

    My concern here is that you aren't patriotic enough if you are asking such a question. Stop whinning. It is your patriotic duty to go to work rain or shine. It is important that you work unpaid overtime and even volunteer nights and week ends. Don't complain about your salary either, otherwise we'll outsource your job you unpatriotic-GDP-lowering-French-lover-commie.

  • Employment At Will (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <<ben> <at> <int.com>> on Thursday September 09, 2004 @10:35PM (#10209050) Homepage
    So you think the terms of your job should be "protected" by the government, huh? Obviously you've never heard of the Employment at Will [about.com] doctrine. The answer to your question is yes, you have rights. You have the right to quit. Don't take that right lightly....you might not miss it until it's gone.

    If the government is allowed to set down terms and conditions for when your company is allowed to fire you, what's to stop them from setting down terms and conditions for when you're allowed to quit? Sorry, you can't quit this week, a Hurricane is coming we need every able bodied employee available to stack sandbags. Quitting now would cause "excessive loss of profit" to the company and the "Protect our Jobs Act of 2004" says that's illegal. Try again next week, after the flood subsides.

    No thanks. Employment at will means at their will, and yours. If you don't like the job requirements, quit. Get off your ass and find a better job. The market is picking up anyway.

    • Re:Employment At Will (Score:5, Insightful)

      by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @11:10PM (#10209298)

      So you think the terms of your job should be "protected" by the government, huh?

      They already are, in many ways. For example, your employer is bound by the Civil Rights Act, OSHA, Fair Labor Standards Act, the Pension Protection Act, Disability, Workers Comp, Unemployment Insurance and so on. Under the FLSA if you are a salaried employee you probably cannot be docked in pay for anything less than a full day absence. Docking your pay beyond that is likely to be a violation of the FLSA and you should contact a lawyer or your state department of labor.

    • Indeed. In Ontario, Canada, you can be sued for damages (with a good chance of success) if you leave an employer "precipitiously".

      Of course, once on the job for 90 days, it's much harder for you to be dismissed without cause. This is so pervasive that you can't get approved for a mortgage within the first 90 days of starting a new job: kind of makes relocation a drag.

    • The alternative plan -- having both sides make certain commitments beyond "I can walk out of the deal any time I like" -- can work as well.

      Here in the UK, it's normal for both parties to have to give one month's notice before terminating a contract of employment (or, often, 1 week per completed year for longer-term employees). That means employees always have a reasonable chance to find a new job if they're made redundant, and it also protects employers when employees decide to move on, giving them a "mar

  • Thank your employer (Score:2, Informative)

    by n9hmg ( 548792 )
    ... for showing his true colors. Things are improving(praise W). Find a human boss, and leave.

  • The company you work for has a serious problem, and as many others have said before, go see a lawyer about this. The company I work for found a way to keep it's employees safe while maintaining productivity by providing VPN capibilities to us, and having non essentials telecommute when the weather gets bad. (It also makes life easier when I get that 2a support call)

    Additionally it may not be a bad idea to search for a new job where your safety is a concern for the company...

  • It's slimy, no doubt about it (Score:3, Interesting)

    by barzok ( 26681 ) on Thursday September 09, 2004 @11:14PM (#10209321)
    I'm not sure what the exact laws are, and they may vary from state to state, but at least where I live there are laws against traveling on public roads during a state of emergency unless it's required for public safety/service. If you're caught, you'll get ticketed or fined or whatever.

    Somehow, for Y2K, my employer managed to convince the county that all of us in IT were "critical" should there be any emergency, and we got stickers to put on our company IDs stating that in the case of an emergency, the police were to allow us to travel. What a load of BS. Nothing happened, fortunately.

    My route to work now takes me through one of the most snow-prone sections of the state twice a day. I've already told my manager that once winter comes, if things look ugly, I'll be working from home or taking a PTO day. No job is worth putting my life at risk trying to drive through white-out conditions. Lots of employers like to say "take care of yourself and your family first" - let's see if they actually mean it.

    Docking people for not coming in during a hurricane? That's just underhanded & sleazy. Get out of that job, management clearly doesn't consider the employees people, but rather slaves.
  • Glad I live in California, Florida seems pretty unkind to the worker.
    • Heh. California's disasters are just not announced as early.

      Though my company sent us home during the fires, but the fire department would have done it anyway.

      Work during the Earthquake!
  • Might I suggest asking your labor department what your rights are?

  • Docking of Pay (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Makoto916 ( 800691 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @12:03AM (#10209598) Homepage
    Visit this page [dol.gov] to find out if you are classified as an "Exempt Employee". If you are in that classification, then your pay IS NOT based on hours of work and therfore cannot be docked for missing a day. The downside of exemption is that you also do not have to be paid overtime. The bottom line is you can be fired for not showing up but you cannot be docked if you are classified exempt.

    Find out your employment stats by talking with your HR department. They can tell you if you are classified excepmpt under the "Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA)".

    If you are exempt, and your pay has been docked, you have a clear legal case. If you are non-exempt, then your employer is just a jerk.

    • That's not the way it was handled at my last job. Even though we were classified as salaried exempt, anything less than 40 hours/week resulted in a proportionally smaller pay check, as if we were hourly workers. We always called our status "exempt from being paid overtime".

      • Re:Docking of Pay (Score:2, Insightful)

        by qwijibo ( 101731 )
        That's not uncommon, but it is illegal. You're either exempt or you're not. Many companies also classify employees as exempt when they really do not fit the qualifications. Anyone who is in that situation and would like to do something about it should contact a lawyer.

  • Look at it from their perpective (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Julian Morrison ( 5575 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @12:12AM (#10209648)
    When you take a sick day it's unlikely everyone else does too. Work will go on. Money is still being made, so it's not too much of a burden to cover your pay for the day.

    When everyone in the facility ups and walks out at once, processes grind to a halt, money is not made. Worse, some processes may not be as simple to restart as merely flipping the on switch. The day's a dead loss from the company's perspective. Expecting on top of that, that they absorb the damage of paying you (and everybody else) for work you weren't there to do, is adding insult to injury.
    • Them are the breaks. When you run a business, it's not all fun and profit. You have to absorb some losses. Also, business interruption insurance is available if something like this is a serious concern, and I would think it would cover a weather related shutdown.
    • but they declared a state of emergency and ordered parts of the state evacuated... Technically if your employer's business was IN one of those zones they were breaking a legal order by even occupying the building. business aren't homes..they have no legal right to defy authorities on an evacuation order!

  • Ask you union (Score:3, Informative)

    by Magnus Reftel ( 143 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @01:52AM (#10210123)
    Have you tried calling your union? Things like this is what they are there for!
  • Regardless of the laws in Florida, your rights or non-rights, or what's fair or not, always do what's pragmatic.

    Pragmatism says that when a hurricane is headed your way, get the hell out of the area! Duh!
  • For questions about labour law, if you want a proper answer ask a lawyer.

    This is /. We know about things that go bleep in the night.

  • three novel suggestions... (Score:5, Informative)

    by nusratt ( 751548 ) on Friday September 10, 2004 @03:08AM (#10210364) Journal
    ...(or, "Can you say 'passive-aggressive'?")

    1. PUBLICITY...
    Find out which other workplaces (near yours) are/aren't doing the same as your employer.
    Even better, get friendly with people at other jobs who have the same problem.
    Then all of you call the local TV news shows, radio talk-shows, and newspapers, and ask them to do a story publicizing the situation and the names of the offending employers.

    And after the storm is over, DO post the names of those employers anonymously on some very public forums, and then anonymously email links (to those threads) to the head of personnel and the CEO.

    If it's a publicly-traded company, find out which socially-conscious funds are investors -- especially union pension funds, California state employee pension funds, etc.
    Anonymously tell the funds about the story, and cc your message to your CEO, AND to your corporation's department of investor relations.

    2. Ask your doctor to give you some sedatives because of the extra "anxiety" caused by the coming storm. Call in sick because you're impaired by the tranquilizers. They can't deny your sick-pay.

    3. Have a slip-and-fall injury in their parking lot, due to the bad weather. Get sick-time off. Better yet, get disability pay and workmen's-comp.
    Better yet, sue their asses if you're hurt badly enough (btw, this is another idea for point #1: tell the company's liability insurer about what the company is doing).

    • Interesting point. Even if the company is not currently breaking any laws, they are extremely stupid for encouraging workers to come in during hazardous conditions since they could no doubt be sued big if anyone were seriously injured or killed. If they have an in house legal department, someone is asleep at the wheel.
  • A couple of years ago I moved from the US to central Europe (I still work for the same company). In the US we were expected to use PTO to cover any days like this (like the one time in 7 years it snowed) and if you didn't have PTO you didn't get paid. Here in Europe I am still expected to use PTO but I am given something like 3 or 4 days a year (on top of the 4 weeks holiday time) for incidents like this and if I didn't have the time accrued no big deal it will work itself out in the wash.

    So last year wa

  • they can require you to come in; that's up to them (and its up to you to quit if you don't like it). Only if you actually get hurt while at work or traveling to/from work would they face civil or criminal penalties.
  • Ok, my employer expects us to take vacation time for a weather emergency. No, it's not fair, but they make up for it in other ways. So saying they'd "dock your pay," while a far too agressive way to put it, is probably standard practice. However, the second issue, refusing to pay you for the holiday if you don't work on Friday because of an emergency, is punitive. IANAL.
  • In preparing for Y2K my boss and company arranged many contingency plans not only within business centers, but to the point where I had a complete development environmet set up at home. When 9/11 occured and access to NYC was restricted we were all told to stay home until further notice unless critical customer facing support required us to return to the office. My entire department covered their jobs from home.
    Several hurricanes and nor'easters and snowstorms have limited access to our offices. Even last w
  • My employer (very large defense-contractor type) has a policy that if you don't work the time, you take leave or don't get paid.

    I might not like it, but I can understand it. We have "full cost accounting," you might say. Almost everyone works on contracts for other companies or the government. These other companies aren't going to pay for hours (or days) of work they don't receive and my company does not have money to make cover it. Where is the money for unworked time supposed to come from? We do hav
  • Just remember:

    Is this good for the company?

    :-D
  • problem: people priding themselves on making it to work regardless of the weather; a few years ago during the "blizzard of the century" (it really was, for here; >32" of snowfall w/in a 12-hour period) I knew a lot of guys who went into work knowing that the place was closed (usually because the boss had better sense...) just so that the next week (when your area's average annual snowfall is seldom >32", the authorities aren't likely to be prepared to dig the place out overnite...) they'd be a

  • Come to Quebec ! (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Assoupis ( 758320 )
    In quebec, because the workers movement have been strong at some point, there is a lot of laws to protect workers, and the company is supposed to protect their worker from all kind of problems. Also, there is a sorta 50% unionization rate in here, which mean that you'll probably be part of an union if you work here, and can use the money from your union to sue the company.

    Otherwise, a solution can be to join the local branch of the IWW [iww.org], which is mainly an open membership union, which can help you for f
  • It sounds like you work for Wells Fargo. To be fair, they did call me up and told me NOT to come in during a particularly cold blizzard. However, some companies think that they will lose global business if they aren't physically at work. However, the truth was (as Wells Fargo found out) is that just because NY is open does not mean that we need all 100 data operators to process deposits when Twin Cities is in a blizzard that is shutting down everyone else. They had to pay for 100 employees to process what a

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