Keeping Computers (And People) Warm In Winter? 568
Grimwiz writes "Similar to a few of you, I have some of my computers on a UPS. However, the UK press have recently been warning that power supply interruptions are likely this winter and I've been pondering about upgrading my power protection from those few machines to include a few key house components. In particular, I need to ensure that the gas-powered (but electrically controlled) central heating stays working. I have reviewed a few solutions, including Solar / Photovoltaic or purchasing a generator
but they seem to be hugely more expensive than my simple UPS solution, although they do provide a much longer lasting solution than running off batteries. (A battery solution becomes quite expensive if I require more than an hours backup.)
My power requirements for a quiescent house is about 4amps @ 250V, and I'd like to survive at least 8 hours. What solutions do you recommend?"
I suggest (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I suggest (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I suggest (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I suggest (Score:3, Informative)
The result is that if there is a cold snap that lasts more than two or three days there will be insufficent gas to provide for both electricity generation and domestic gas, and something is going to have to give. The only reason it has not happened before is that we have had a series of mild winters since th
porn (Score:4, Funny)
Re:porn (Score:2, Insightful)
sex (Score:2, Funny)
Re:sex (Score:2, Funny)
UPS + Generator (Score:5, Informative)
More batteries (Score:3, Informative)
-Foxxz
Re:More batteries (Score:2, Informative)
Car batteries (Score:2)
then use a DC to AC converter.
Need to do some math, along with getting an over night battery recharger. But several of these should do.
See this article [hypertextbook.com], seems that car batteries are typically rated in hundreds of amp hours (100 to 500), so two or three might do the job.
Re:Car batteries (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Car batteries (Score:4, Informative)
At least explain why. Wet cell batteries vent (explosive) hydrogen when charging. That's why when you jumpstart a car you make the final connection to ground (earth) away from the battery. Too much hydrogen floating around the battery that a stray spark could ignite.
Sealed gel batteries, which to not vent, are fine indoors. That's what most UPSes use.
Replacing your UPS? (Score:4, Insightful)
It really depends on how long you expect your outage to last. UPS won't last for long, yet is crucial for small burps in the supply.
For example, what if your generator runs out of gas?
How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:4, Informative)
Oh, and drink whiskey. Lots and lots of whiskey. It makes good antifreeze for the blood :)
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:3, Insightful)
My guess, though, is that they want to remain a little bit comfortable during a power outage... not simply remain alive.
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:2)
Having said that, I have purchased a generator to keep the deep freeze running during the summer and the furnace running during the winter in the event of a long lasting power outage.
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:5, Informative)
It does suprise me the number of people in civilized lands that are completely clueless to human survival.
If the house get's to 1 deg C your pipes are still very safe 0.5degC is where I would start to worry. about the pipes. Being used to winters regularly getting to -5 to -10degC and recieving at least 36-48 inches of snow by mid winter I usually get a good laugh from those that live in warmer climates and their lack of knowlege about life.
I would add to your tips. dress in lots of layers. a couple of undershirts with a regular shirt, a sweater and then a baggy sweatshirt, 2 pairs of pants on and then a regular jacket coupled with gloves and decent boots (3 pairs of socks, 1 plastic bag over each foot (if you venture outside) then in medicore boots can survive quite a long time in -3deg C weather out of the wind and elements. a Hat is a MUST if you venture out in any wind.
your computer can get down to -30 degC before possible dsamage, and then it's highly unlikely. This is negated by the silly people with water cooling and not using ethelyne glycol for freeze, heat protection.
layers are important, buy some long underwear or sweatpants just in case. In fact a pair of regular underwear, long underwear, and two pairs of jeans will easily protect a walking person in arctic temperatures if DRY for days.
finally, gloves. get some that are decent and good socks/boots. you can survive horrible temperatures while your nose., fingers and toes freeze solid and then fall off days later.
finally if it getr's really horrid, pitch a tent in your front room (a 4 season tent) and sleep in there. containing your heat in a smaller space will protect you massively in extreme temperatures.
but the best thing is to find a female that is unprepared and scared and convince her that she and her 2 friends must sleep naked together in that tent with you in order to survive...
you know use that shared body heat angle.. Chicks love the prepared rescue type... oh and don't shave for a day or so to look rugged... they dig that too...
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:2)
-5 to -10C isn't all that cold - that runs around 10 - 20F, right? If we averaged that, it would be what we call a mild winter (although we get nowhere near that amount of snow!)
The worst is when we get the "Alberta Clippers" here. You get a blast of artic air come south over the great plains and, if you're really unlucky, hit warmer,
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:3, Informative)
Newer homes have plastic piping instead of copper. I'd say copper would freeze quicker since it is a better conductor than plastic. Also, pipes could be in uninsulated or not very well insulated parts of a home such as the basement where cold air will pool first.
I'd rather be safe than sorry and take action as soon as possible, turn the taps on at about 5C; the hot and cold.
Re:How cold does it get in the UK during winter? (Score:5, Interesting)
I live in North Pole, Alaska (yeah, really) and I've seen it get to -70F (-57C) here a few times. I've actually saved myself from freezing to death by crawling under the hood of my truck to lay on the [rapidly cooling] engine when my belts snapped with the cold. I now make it a rule that I call in sick if it drops below -55F.
In my experience, it takes a long time for pipes to freeze to the point where they burst. The power goes out a lot here (I have 3 APC 1100 UPS's under my desk to keep my computers and peripherals up during the black/brown-outs). Granted my house has 12" walls, but I've seen the power go out in the dead of winter here and, 12 hours later, the house might be down to around 40F. I do not run glycol in in my heating system, but I DO let the faucets drip (slowly) whenever it looks like it's going to be a long outage.
Now, I have considered getting a generator (a lot of people have them around here), and it would probably be a good idea. But in leu of that, [we] have a rather impressive set of winter gear that we can rely on - my parka has build-in, replaceable 8-hour chemical heaters under each arm and my "bunny-boots" could probably have kept the astronauts toasty on the moon.
That being said, I'd have to echo the parent post about finding the chicks. It's usually best to have the wife and kids spend a nice warm night in a hotel though, before you invite said chicks over to help you survive.
Buy bigger batteries (Score:5, Interesting)
Watch the battery doesn't explode (Score:5, Informative)
A co-worker had seen the exact same thing happen in his last job.
I'm not familiar with what "VRLA" means, but unless the battery is sealed gel-type and rated for deep discharge and repeated cycling, I'd wouldn't use it.
VRLA = Valve Regulated Lead Acid (Score:5, Informative)
VRLA is Valve Regulated Lead Acid...VRLA is better than a sealed lead acid precisely because it will NOT explode- it will vent if charged too fast.
VRLA is a teensy bit different from a standard gel cell in terms of charge profile, but they're close enough that it shouldn't matter much; I think the float voltage is typically lower. HOWEVER, you DO need to make sure you match specifications ( and not just "12v", get the specs sheet and look at the charge, float, etc voltages), and be aware that VRLAs are not particularly fond of heat; adding a tiny fan to the UPS enclosure would probably be a swell idea anyway as the buggers tend to run hot.
The REALLY thorough will check the charge current from the UPS. UPS makers are under pressure to get the battery charged back up quickly, and they may push the limits of the battery's charge current. It's generally C/20 where C = A/Hr capacity; ie a 20Ahr battery should not be charged faster than 1A continuous (a brief peak charge might be OK, and if so, will be specified in current and duration). Charging too fast will cause gassing, overheating- and past a certain point, like many other batteries, lead acid batteries of any type can go into thermal runaway, which is not pretty.
Adding in extra batteries into a UPS not designed for expansion will be trouble, on the charging side of the equation. If you've ever had a completely dead car battery and tried to charge it with a charger, you know what I'm talking about- the voltage drop is so great, the battery practically acts like a short and will cause the charger to overload. The same thing could happen with a UPS. A good sign is if there are battery expansion packs available for your UPS; use that as a guide for sizing.
Oh, and by the way, you may want to consider adjusting your UPS to use the proper float voltage (not for the faint of heart, but possible on some UPS's without soldering), and again, installing a low-speed fan to move some air through the thing and keep everything cool. Many UPS vendors coughAPCcough set their float voltages too high and thus cook the batteries, and the elevated temperatures don't help either; that all makes for a nice revenue stream, as they charge a fortune for replacement packs(which are almost always made up of standard-size batteries, and thus available much more cheaply if you're the enterprising type). Properly maintained lead-acid batteries should last almost a decade- yet most UPS batteries die within a matter of 2-3 years. It's pathetic, considering how much lead is in them and how most people probably don't dispose of the UPS's or the batteries properly.
Re:Buy bigger batteries (Score:3, Insightful)
To anyone that reads this and thinks it's a good idea to go out and buy a big massive marine deep cycle battery - don't. Most UPS systems have pretty bad cooling and if they're run at full load for an extended period of time (thanks to being connected to your giant battery) they can overheat and cause a fire. When you consider the fact this
I suggest... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I suggest... (Score:5, Informative)
You see, most UPS systems are rated in "volt amps". If you have a purely resistive load, that's the power drawn. However, as soon as you throw any inductors or capacitors into the circuit, the equation no longer holds. This is where the power factor comes into the equation.
You're talking about 4 amps at 250 V, over a period of 8 hours. That's 1000 watts for eight hours, or 8 kilowatt hours. However, this doesn't cater for the power factor -- if your house has a power factor of 0.8, for example, batteries capable of providing that current for that period of time will run your house for about six and a half hours. So you'll need to bring up the batteries to 10 kilowatt hours to compensate -- either that, or (if it's an inductive load) buy a whopping great big bank of capacitors to bring the power factor back up to a reasonable level.
Industrial sites have to deal with this; the power company doesn't like sites that draw excessive current compared with their power usage, and will bill them big time if their power factor is too low. Most residential sites aren't a concern in this regard; their usage is too low for the power company to worry.
If you've specced it out based upon the current draw (ie: sticking a current meter in series with the circuit), you've automatically compensated for the power factor. If you've done the maths based upon the power rating of the devices, though, you need to consider this stuff. Any competent electrician should be able to help you out here.
Re:Oops.. (Score:5, Informative)
Umm you got it backwards.. Lets go to the facts..
Starting with some glossary terms..
Volts = Electrical pressure
Amps = Electrical current
Watts = Power
VoltAmps = Volts * Amps
Vars = Volts Amps Reactive.
Power Factor = Percent of Volt Amps that are Power scaled 0-1.
What's it mean?
If you drop a Capacitor on an AC line, it will draw current but not get hot unless it's not designed for the voltage, current, or polarity.
The current is said to be reactive. All of the current measured in VA is not Watts. The power Factor is zero. Volts * amps * power factor = watts. Most inverters don't like a highly reactive load. This may dammage it.
A light bulb gets hot. It is not an inductor or capacitor.. It has a power factor of 1. Volts * amps * power factor = Watts.
A furnace motor may have a power factor of 0.8. If it drew 4 amps at 250 volts it's VA = 4*250 or 1000VA. The actual power draw in watts is 80% of tthe VA. Remember power = Volts * Amps * Power Factor or 250 * 4 * 0.8 = 800 Watts.
So in the above example in the parant, the load draws 800 watts. If it draws it for 8 hours, that's 6.4 KWH not 10 KWH.
Remember that inverters don't like reactive loads. The inverter may take the reactive power and dump it as heat depending on the design. That's 200 watts of reactive power. You also need to scale for conversion consumption. The inverter uses power. It is not a lossless process.
If you run large reactive loads, save your inverter by looking into doing some power factor correction.
With a reactive load such as a transformer or motor, the current lags the voltage. In a capacitive load such as a noise filter, current leads the voltage. It is possible to correct reactive load problems with lamp ballasts, motors and transformers by adding capacitors to the line. You want a capacitor that has the same VAR rating as the load you are trying to correct. In the above example, we have a reactive component of 200 watts. (800 true watts subtracted from the 1000 VA leaves the reactive component of 200 watts reactive) Adding 200 watts capacitive reactance will cancel out the inductive reactance load. This will reduce the load on the inverter. Now it sees a 800 VA load, not a 1000 VA load. Now the inverter sees a power factor corrected to 1. The motor still draws 1000 VA but now gets the 200 VA reactive component from the capacitor, not the inverter.
I hope I didn't loose too many in the dry discussion of what a VAR is.
Anyway, this is the reason on some power poles, you may see a bank of capacitors. It is used to correct power factor and reduce the amprage load on a substation.
Re:I suggest... (Score:2)
Need a generator? (Score:2, Interesting)
If you are going to need a generator occasionally, but don't want to pay the upfront cost, you might consider hooking your DC system (assuming that it runs at 12V) into your car and then using the car as a generator
Re:Need a generator? (Score:5, Informative)
I just got back from Epcot, where GM had a display about their gas/electric hybrid pickups and how they were used during the Florida hurricane's as mobile power generation stations. Apparently you can plug right into one of them, and they'll give you 120 VAC @20 amps, which is not too shabby. (No doubt the UK model serves up 240VAC)
Re:Need a generator? (Score:3, Informative)
I have a palmino and a gf4... (Score:3, Funny)
Gas - Electricity (Score:5, Informative)
Cut the Fat (Score:5, Informative)
You could look into alternative energy sources, but since cost is a factor, I won't go into details, except to say the up-front costs can be prohibitive.
In all honesty, a generator IS your best option if you want to keep running in a blackout. You may be able to poke around and find a used one for 1/3 the cost of the new article.
If that's still not an option, build a fire pit and stock up on wood...
Our gas supply (Score:5, Interesting)
The lease dates back to the 1940s and at the time it wasn't uncommon for the leaseholder to be able to use all the gas they needed from the well for household use.
The oil and gas company that has the lease desperately wants to change those terms.
The only downsides are:
1) Occasionally the well will freeze up in the winter. That's not that much of a problem because my oldest brother who also lives on the farm is retired from that same oil and gas company and can thaw out the well.
2) There are no odorants added to the natural gas and so it has no smell to tell you that you have a gas leak. I ended up in the hospital once because of that when a natural gas heater went out and let the room fill with natural gas.
Re:Our gas supply (Score:3, Interesting)
A few years ago, there was a massive power outage throughout this area for about 12 hours. We were one of the few to have normal power throughout most of the outage because of that generator.
Re:Our gas supply (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Our gas supply (Score:4, Funny)
I've heard mixed reviews
Feh, Heat (Score:5, Funny)
Central heating for 8 hours? (Score:5, Insightful)
Simple as that. The first option is cheap and effective, but makes a bit of noise, and will need somewhere outside to run it. The second option needs quite a bit of space, is expensive and requires a fair amount of other expenditure for charging circuits, inverters, etc. It also runs out after a while and there is nothing you can do then. If you use a generator, you can always put more petrol/diesel in, assuming you keep a decent stock.
Solution: Google for a 1500W generator (e.g. [pricegrabber.com]). Problem solved - next question please.
Re:Central heating for 8 hours? (Score:2)
They could be used to charge the batteries, but it sounds like he is trying to do things cheaply, so should just use the mains for that.
Re:Central heating for 8 hours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Generators (Score:3, Insightful)
You mention all those things for 'survival' and 'mininum comfort'. And then you list things like a 19" TV and a computer.
First off, that's not survival. That's luxury. Surely you've seen books before. They're quite entertaining, and generally a bit more enlightening than watching CBS (or w
Electrician (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't really need heat for 8 hours. (Score:5, Insightful)
My recommendation: don't sweat 8 hours of power failiures.
That said, if you really need electricity, say to prevent perishable from going bad your best bet is a generator essentially because it's easy to refuel and keep going for days. You also get decent power in relatively small packages.
Power Outtages? (Score:2)
UPS + Generator (hybrid) (Score:2, Interesting)
Get a large-ish UPS that can support this power consumption for, oh, 15 minutes. Make sure your generator is ready to work at any time. Power goes out, plug the UPS into the generator, and start it up. As long as you have the UPS (a kind of
blankets (Score:2, Insightful)
Bigger is better (Score:2)
Re:Bigger is better (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bigger is better (Score:3, Funny)
You mean like this [stcloudstate.edu]?
Yes, they are all functional, and there is even one more screen you can't see in this picture.
What power interruptions??? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What power interruptions??? (Score:4, Insightful)
1st world country does not always equal a stable power system.
Just ask people living in California.
Re:What power interruptions??? (Score:3, Interesting)
Are you kidding? I'm not too sure about the UK, but where I live (US), rolling blackouts and brownouts are not totally uncommon in the summer, when electricity consumption is at its highest. Even if your distribution infrastructure is the best in the world, it's no help if you're not generating enough power in the first place. Line problems are not that uncommon either - I live i
zerg (Score:2)
living in FLA (Score:3, Interesting)
methane to the rescue (Score:2)
Some farmers already use them. They extract the methane from manure from their livestock as the manure is prepped for fertilizer use (they need to let it "rest" before they can use it as fertilizer). The extracted and captured methane is typically fed into a retrofitted generator. It's called Bio-Methane [green-trust.org]
In some cities, they extract it from sewage. So if u have a septic system, you might be able to collect m
WTF? (Score:2)
home power (Score:2)
Not exactly what you are looking for, but check out Home power magazine [homepower.com]. Many things that a good hacker can adapt. They are most US based, so they won't cover some UK issues. (US is 60 hz)
Just watch the politics, there are very many publications more extreme on the "left". Interesting in other words, but don't believe everything they write.
From somebody who lived 30 miles in the rurals... (Score:2)
Use hybrid (Score:3, Interesting)
Phillip.
Migrate (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, you probably should investigate a natural gas generator, talk to a good electrician, and be prepared to combat a plethora of zoning (or similar in the UK) restrictions. Alternativly you could reinforce the floors of your house and consider lead-acid batteries but many of these solutions are solar oriented and not ideal for the UK in winter.
It's not easy being green.
furnace won't work with UPS, don't bother trying (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:furnace won't work with UPS, don't bother tryin (Score:3, Informative)
backup heating doesn't have to be the furnace... unless you got some very important stuff there in which case you should have a generator anyways.
Re:furnace won't work with UPS, don't bother tryin (Score:3, Informative)
get a propane space heater and a 20lb tank
Don't do this. Catalytic propane space heaters are meant to be used in open, well-ventilated areas, like outdoors. Used in enclosed spaces, a dangerous level of CO2 can build, which can be potentially lethal. This is especially dangerous in an outage situation, where you're likely to huddle in a smaller, well insulated room and close the doors.
Your best bet for an emergency heat source is a fireplace. Wood is good, but propane is simpler to operate, easier to
Power and heating solutions (Score:5, Informative)
You live in the UK, which tends to not have enough sun to make photovoltaic worthwhile. Either you need a positively huge array (and the one in the picture on the website you link to looks like it fairly covers all available space on the roof) or you need lots of sun and Britain just doesn't have that.
Your best (but polluting) source of electricity is a honda generator. You can buy them all over and I'd imagine a DIY outlet will have a few models to choose from. One member here mentions that he did quite well after a hurricane with one. Do not ever run one indoors. They create carbon monoxide so their exhaust needs to be away from the house so that it cannot seep in through a window, vent or other entrance.
You will need a UPS with a generator if you are running a computer, but you don't need one for equipment that may be shut off and restarted, like fans, washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc. You need enough battery life to be able to survive a power outage until you can get the generator running. So if your computer needs to run all of the time, make sure your battery will last long enough for you to wake up, put on clothes and go tend to the generator.
Insulation and sealing are the best non-polluting way to increase heat -- and you will save money on heating fuel all winter, so it pays for itself.
The more insulation you have in your walls and on the roof, the better you are. Be sure there is an air pocket that runs up your eaves on your roof so that you don't get mold on your rafters and shingles and you're all set. You want to add to your "R-Value" in such a way so that you can keep enough home heat inside to keep warm in any full-day power outage.
The homes I've visited in England have tended to be fairly drafty as compared to US homes. So look at your doors and windows and make sure they seal well when you close them. Windows ought to be double-pane windows, which hold in heat four times better than single-pane.
I don't necessarily recommend that you keep up the electricity lifestyle during a power outage. Turn off your computer, unless you need it for work. Use hurricane lanterns and "Coleman" white gas lanters with mantles to light up your home (they'll also add heat but not as efficiently, perhaps, as a real heater). Run up your heater on your generator until it is quite warm inside and then shut it off until things cool down just under bearable temperatures. Don't open any windows to moderate the heat and keep things sealed up as best you can. Don't use the television, save to get information about the power emergency (a radio is usually better anyway for up-to-the-moment information anyway). Run your generator sparingly.
And talk to your local MP and ask why your area is so ill-served with electricity. Ask if his district is not one of second-class citizenry if your power goes out as often as is predicted. Gather your friends and neighbors to help him think more clearly (if he sees you as a voting bloc, he'll think clearly) about the need to introduce a change in the system.
clarification (Score:3, Informative)
Get a thermopile and Millivolt gas valve (Score:5, Informative)
It must be a hot water system. Just open all of the zone valves and eventually the whole system will heat up to the furnace temperature via convection in the pipes. The furnace will cycle between its low and high temperature, even with no power except the thermopile.
This is a standard type of system in the US. Not sure about the UK.
See http://hearth.com/what/gas/howgasworks.html for info on millivolt gas systems.
Combined heat and power. (Score:5, Interesting)
Not in full production yet but should be in a year or so. Once it is it'll be possible to have your own solar power station in your back garden.
35% efficient at converting heat into electricity and the rest of the heat is used for central heating and hot water giving an overall efficiency of 90% or so. If not enough sun, it can switch to gas powered generation.
Will it compete with a cheap petrol generator? Not in the short term. In the long term, it supplies electricity to the grid as well as heating the house, so not only does it reduce your bills, it actually earns some cash.
Power supply interruptions are NOT likley! (Score:5, Informative)
Get your facts right. I don't know what coverage you're reading (the tabloid papers I suspect) but there is no power supply crisis forcast for this winter.
What has been commented on is our increasing reliance on imported power from the continent, and coupled with the decommissiong of several major nuclear power plants over the next decade if we don't act now there could be problems in the future. I don't think UPS'ing your heating system is necessary just yet :)
"But the government said the outlook for power supplies this winter was good and accused the union of "scaremongering""
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3751810.stm [bbc.co.uk]
Here's a cheap and effective way to do it! (Score:3, Informative)
That's probably less than it would cost you to add a SINGLE additional battery to your system.
Here's how: Find yourself an old "horizontal" style lawnmower engine (anything over 2HP will do) and a car alternator - the bigger the better. Put a pully on each, string a V-belt between them and bolt them down to a thick piece of plywood or better, some sort of metal frame. Using the wire from a set of old booster-cables, hook the output from the alternator (which should be outside, of course) through the nearest convenient window (or drill a hole in the wall) and across your UPS battery (making sure it is the CORRECT POLARITY). When the power goes out for more than 20 minutes, go outside and start up the engine for practically unlimited runtime.
Even with a small car alternator, this rig will easily give you 12 volts at fifty amps. If you use a larger alternator, like the kind you would find on a truck, you can get 12 volts at up to a HUNDRED amps (= 1,200 watts).
I once put a system like this together for fun for under $50.00 CDN, ($30.00 for a beat-up old engine in the local bargain-finder and $20.00 for an alternator from the local scrapyard.) This is significantly less expensive than buying even a single extra battery, which would cost about $80.00. The thing would run for HOURS before needing refueling, and if I wanted longer runtime I could have just added a bigger gas tank.
Now, before you pack up your wrenches and head down to the local scrapyard, there is something you need to check: Does your UPS use a single large 12-volt battery, or does it use two smaller 12-volt batteries in SERIES for a total of 24-volts? If your system has two 12-volt batteries in series, you're going to need a 24-volt alternator. Where do you get a 24 volt alternator? Well, most Land Rover vehicles have 24-volt alternators, as would practically any kind of emergency vehicle, most military vehicles, and many large trucks. So, if you need a 24-volt alternator and can't find a Land Rover at your local wreckers, head to an INDUSTRIAL vehicle scrapyard.
For the load you initially described, (250 volts @ 4 amps = 1,000 watts at continuous use) you would need a sustained power INPUT of about 1,200 watts. Note however, that in reality you will probably NOT need 1,000 watts continuous output as your furnace blower will be cycling on and off as will the other loads in your house. The UPS's battery will cover the extra load when everything IS running and recharge from the alternator when it ISN'T. This means you can likely get by with a smaller alternator.
Overall, the solution I have described is ugly, noisy, and isn't likely to last through more than 100 hours of use. But it's also cheap, light (compared to a battery), easy to hook into the UPS, quite reliable, and works great if you only need a few hours of additional electrical power. If you're mechanically inclined, this is the cheapest and most effective solution I can think of.
If you're really keen on the whole batteries/UPS/alternator modding-it-to-run-on-practically-any-source-of-pow er thing or just want even more reasons why trying to run it off solar power would be a terrible idea (at least where you live), I did a really interesting writeup on this for an anti-landmine technology competition a few years back. We made the whole reference design that we came up with effectively "open-source", so feel free to use it as you please. You can have a look at that here: http://www.intellicharge.ca/Downloads/Downloads.ht m [intellicharge.ca] The server has pretty serious bandwidth so it should be relatively /. resistant, but please don't rack up our hosting bill by downloading the full 1200dpi 114 MEG "print resolution" version unless you have good
easy solution (Score:3, Funny)
I'm doing the solar power thing (Score:3)
I do grant you that solar panels are expensive. But it could be a worthwhile expense.
My approach is that everything that I want to keep running when the power goes out should run from either 12V or 24V. I have a 24VDC system. Two 12V batteries in series for 24V, and a third 12V battery which is kept charged by a DC/DC converter [solarseller.com]. (This was mostly because I had surplus batteries; 12V alone would be fine for many purposes. My earlier attempt was with a pair of 6V golf-cart batteries in series. These are capable of storing a lot of energy, and they last a long time if well taken care of, but they do consume water.) The 24V system is charged by a pair of large solar panels on the roof, which I got used on ebay. I'm a little underwhelmed though with the current that I'm getting out of them, so suggest you should get new ones with the best efficiency you can find. Today I was getting a peak of 3 amps charge current. That's only 72 watts, and it is not providing that much all day long, either. Consequently my "secondary" grid-powered battery charger is providing most of the charging. I have 2 computers running on batteries now, and together they draw about 4 amps continuously from the 24V supply. One is an Athlon with an Orion 24V ATX power supply, and the other is a fanless Epia 600, supposedly low power, but it is drawing a bit over 2 amps off the 12V supply (which translates to a bit over 1 amp off the 24V supply). The Epia has one of these [mini-box.com], which gives me the flexibility to run from either voltage.
CRTs are line-powered but LCDs typically run from a lower voltage. Right now I have two big CRTs for my main system and they are power hogs, and generate a lot of heat. Some day I will upgrade, and I think it's possible to find LCDs which have wall-wart power supplies rather than built-in. I would bet some of them are 12V too. So then I will be set - I could do any kind of computing I like even during a power outage. A laptop is also a good solution, but those usually charge from less standard voltages, like 16 or 18. It's unfortunate.
12V lighting is easy, because RVers use so much of it. You can find 12V fluorescent lights, halogen track lights (but that's kindof wasteful), LED lights etc. In an extended power outage I would turn off one or both of the computers, and then the 24V battery would keep the 12V battery charged, and I could have lighting indefinitely as the solar panels charge the 24V battery every day. The kitchen has a drop ceiling with several 4' grid-powered fluorescent lights already. I added a 2' 12V powered RV light. It is well hidden above the translucent ceiling panels, and provides enough light to get by.
For my computer rack I made a panel with efficient switching DC/DC converters that supply 5V and 3.3V as well, for things that would otherwise have been powered by inefficient "wall wart" power supplies. Just consolidating all of those to a single source should save a lot of power. The panel has a bunch of these [ocraces.org] connectors. I use red & black for 12V, blue & black for 24V, orange & black for 5V and yellow & black for 3.3V. (I debated about whether to follow the PC power supply color convention, but the ham radio guys have already chosen red for 12V, and that doesn't match.) I plan to use brown for any other odd voltage that I may need later; I notice a lot of things running from 7.5V, for instance (hubs and scanners and stuff like that). I used some panel-mount holders like these [connex-electronics.com] to mount them on a rack panel. If you don't want to make your own p
Using external Lead Acid batteries with UPS (Score:3, Interesting)
Some APC UPS units [apc.com] have an external connector normally used for disconnecting the built-in battery for safe shipping or in case of fire. By replacing the internal battery with a wire-loop, the external connector can be used to conveniently hook up large batteries. (Watch the polarity!)
The SmartUPS 1400 model pictured is a 24 volt system, so 2 serially connected deep-cycle lead acid batteries must be used.
ups1 [sjoholm.com]
ups2 [sjoholm.com]
This setup worked great during the recent hurricanes and power outages in Florida. It kept my laptop, cell phones and flashlights charged during the outages, the longest of which was about 5 days. During prolonged outages you would want to turn the UPS off, and only run it for an hour a day or so to charge smaller devices, check the news, etc.
Your car provides everything you need. (Score:4, Informative)
The electricity is pretty simple. Your stock alternator produces 14 volts DC at somewhere between 50 and 100 amps. After derating for alternator heating, and inverter losses, figure about 500 watts of useful continuous power, with momentary surge capacity of at least 2kW. Inverters that produce more than 100 watts or so should be wired straight in.
For the heat, you'll need a way to circulate the engine's coolant into the house and back. Pick up a "radiator flush" kit at the auto store. It's a set of tee fittings that install inline with the radiator hoses, and have threads for garden hoses to screw on. Pick up a radiator from the junkyard, and a bunch of hose that can handle the temperature and pressure involved. Plumb your new radiator in parallel with the existing one.
After filling the whole mess with coolant, doublecheck all your hoseclamps and start 'er up. As the engine heats up, the thermostat will open and both radiators should get warm. If you need to divert more flow to the external one, try pinching or adding a valve to one of the hoses. Put a small fan on your in-house radiator and voila!
Now the only problem is that Murphy's law guarantees a power failure will happen when your tank is almost empty. Diesel keeps well, but gasoline turns to varnish after a few months in storage, so if you're going to keep a few gallons in a spare can, change it out regularly.
(Please note: Make damn sure all your hoses and fittings can handle the temperatures and pressures involved. Check the coolant level after the bubbles work out. Keep an eye on engine temp if you choose to restrict the hose, and pay special attention if the engine's radiator fan comes on, which probably indicates inadequate coolant flow. Provide adequate airflow over the inverter's heatsink. Don't touch wiring with your hands covered in coolant. I'm not responsible if you blow yourself up.)
its AC! (Score:5, Informative)
stick em in parrallel and hook up a 240V inverter.
32ah is a bit on the weedy side, around 110ah is standard and easy to find. over in the uk they tend to be called leisure batteries. dont use normal car batteries they are not designed to be run down - you will damage them
Re:Deep cycle marine battery (Score:5, Informative)
What you need is an inverter. The cheap ones that you can get anywhere would work fine for your computers, but for your furnace you'd need an inverter of the caliber used in off-grid homes. (Probably more than you want to spend.)
Re:Deep cycle marine battery (Score:3, Informative)
Maybe. His computer doesn't run on AC at all. You can buy 12 volt power supplies for some computers. Telecom runs their computers on 48 volts DC. (not all, but all the important ones)
Light bulbs don't care about DC. Small motors don't care. I suspect that he only has two devices that care: his fridge, and his furnace. Everything else transforms either doesn't care, or transforms the AC into something else anyway, so a good hacker could find that something else and make it work.
Warning, if you co
AC, DC, and voltages (Score:5, Informative)
If you run an incandesent bulb off DC it will work just fine, and probably last a VERY long time compared to how long it "should" last.
I thought the UK ran at 240 volts, not 250. I thought South Africa was the only country that ran 250. I though most of Europe was 220 and Europe and the UK were going to unify their standards at 230. Anyone care to comment? BTW, Japan runs at 100 (the lowest, 250 is the highest) and I think Trinidad runs 110 (the USA does NOT, see below).
Of course the USA used to be 110 volts, but is now 120 volts, but so many Americans still don't know that. It actually causes problems with old tube radios.
US voltages (Score:5, Informative)
Another system uses two of three phases on a 208V three-phase supply; phase-to-neutral is still 120. This is normally only found in apartments and commercial buildings.
Re:AC, DC, and voltages (Score:3, Informative)
Across Europe the official standard now is 230 volts -6% +10%
This range therefore includes the whole range of all European countries including 220 volts, 230 volts and 240 volts. The standards are deliberately slack so that we can all say we have harmonised voltages but actually keep our original one. Ho
Re:AC, DC, and voltages (Score:3, Informative)
Oz is 240v too (Score:3, Informative)
Really other than things made for the US & other weird places, everthing made to run on mains for the last 50 years is to designed to run on any voltage between 220v & 250v wihtout a hiccup.
Re:AC, DC, and voltages (Score:3, Funny)
fluorescent lamps have been deprecated for over four years - they're wasteful and short lived, if cheaper.
When I moved into my place, 4 years ago, I decided to never buy another fluorescent lamp again. Over the next 2 years I replaced every lamp, as it blew, with an appropriate high-efficiency white LED array. I will have to replace the first of those in 2017.
Net saving is around 50 or 60 quid
Re:Deep cycle marine battery (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Deep cycle marine battery (Score:3, Insightful)
Well, yeah, but since all of his computers and appliances and everything are designed to run off AC, you *need* an inverter to get AC out of your DC batteries.
Converting all his equipment to DC would be extremely complicated, not to mention prohibitively expensive.
Xantrex is on Teh Powar Spoke (Score:4, Interesting)
For the best inverters I know of, use Xantrex [xantrex.com].
Get a bank of 12V batteries, like marine, or car batteries, and run it through something like this, [xantrex.com] or pop for the integrated solution like this. [xantrex.com]
Also take a look at those neat solar arrays [xantrex.com].
A very close associate of mine uses Xantrex's Trace inverters with a system of LP gas generators, solar arrays, and battery banks to provide power to an off-grid site on a barrier island. When the sun shines (a lot of the time) the solar keeps the batteries charged. The inverter powers the camp from the bateries, and if someone plugs in a hair-dryer (or the sun doesn't shine for a few days) the inverter can turn on the generator to boost the juice, and refresh the batteries. The tricky part is regulating the temerature on the batterie bank. If it gets too hot, it'll "boil" the batteries and they won't be for shit until you fill 'em with distilled water and say a prayer.
Re:Deep cycle marine battery (Score:5, Informative)
DO NOT USE HIGH VOLTAGE DC IN YOUR HOUSE.
Apart from the obvious issue with appliances, there's another reason.
Mains 240V AC switches are not rated for that kind of DC voltage - the arc from switching DC at those voltages will most likely destroy the switch. This arc is only brief with AC at 50/60 Hz as the arc will extinguish when the voltage drops to zero every half-cycle.
This is why switches are normally rated along the lines of "240VAC/32VDC"
Used diesel power generator (Score:3, Informative)
Put it into a garage or cellar, connect exhaust pipes to outside, and finally get an electrician to connect it to house grid.
Ok - they are big and noisy when started, but I've seen such solution and it works better than anything on led batteries, which tend to go down in really cold weather.
This is the UK we're talking about. (Score:3, Informative)
As for the second component of your comment, isn't that stating the obvious?
Personally I'd go for photovoltaic supply as I've nearly succeeded in getting a Mini-ITX based server operating 24/7 on solar power via a bank of 6v FLT batteries.
For heating, being as we face no natural-gas outages just now, I'd recommend by-productive heating from your cooking sources after their normal use.
Re:This is the UK we're talking about. (Score:2)
Re:This is the UK we're talking about. (Score:2)
If you are refering to gas-fired cooking sources, sure...if you want to die of carbon monoxide poisoning.
A gas-fired furnace works because the CO is entrained in the furnace chimney and exhausted OUTSIDE. The flame heats a heat-transfer box where the inside air is heated and circ
Re:Warm? (Score:2, Funny)
Sex also produces more people (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Opposite problem (Score:2)
Re:Opposite problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Opposite problem (Score:3, Insightful)
Further, once your computer reaches steady-state, it is in fact distributing the entirety of its heat to the room around it. It doesn't matt
Re:A generator and a modest UPS (Score:2, Interesting)
I had a generator (can't remember which one now) that featured "clean" power output for electronic devices 5-6% distortion or something like that.
I had the place wired so I could use one plug to connect the genset to the house, and then switch certain circuits over from utility to generator power.
For heat, I used a Kerosene heater (place had electric heat). I'd not recommend this option if you don't have electric heating.
The PC was powered through a s